Stratovarius Community

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:44 am**

...personally I cannot stand Maiden,Priest,Sabbath or any Heavy Metal...the thing I actually hate is Hammerfall...it all suond exactly the same to me...do not tell me I`ve got to study their music, I did and they suck imo...maiden may have bruce, but they have nothing else...Priest has Halford but once again nothing else....Sabbath had got Ozzy but... and I could continue forever...There Is nothing special behind their music,very simple intstrumental work, catchy but shallow songs...imo it has nothing to give to more intelectually advanced listener (i am not trying to say i am one)...my opinion on these bands is that they have simply invented and develpoed Metal genre and got famous only because of Heavy Metal Boom back in 70`s...to say it square Maiden,Priest and whole Heavy Metal is history, speed and progressive metal like Stratovarius ,BLind GUardian or Dream Theater are future...whether faithfull from Maidens lines accept it or not...What do YOU think?

by this post i didn`t want to offend anyone, i just wanted to say MY opinion, and to read YOUR opinionn...

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:20 am**

I think that in a traditional level, these bands (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest and Black Sabbath) are considered so much as pioneers of metal that people ultimately like them. I don't think that it has necessarily so much to do with music than them being traditional and classic metal bands.

It is easy to say that I like Iron Maiden because no matter what genre you represent you will not lose your face by saying that you dig Maiden.

Of course me being quite old myself I have grown to listen all of the bands mentioned above and I do like all of them.

It is also true that those bands are very much personated around their vocalists. Everybody knows that Halford was and is the vocalist of Priest but how many knows for instance who is the drummer?

But at the end of the day I really don't have anything bad to say about any of these bands.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:01 am**

Personally I genuinely like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest (and Black Sabbath during the years Dio was their singer (yes, blasphemy!)). But that's also where I started out listening to meta, obviously I've "broadened the horizons" quite a bit since to the point where I don't listen to these bands a whole lot anymore.
As for the future...I'm not sure I agree with your choices there, but of course music evolves (or devolves, depending on how you look at it).

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:06 am**

LittleHarry wrote:to say it square Maiden,Priest and whole Heavy Metal is history, speed and progressive metal like Stratovarius ,BLind GUardian or Dream Theater are future...

on the other hand the last Strato record totally sucked compared to Maiden.. and those bands still release quite good albums, so who cares?

And there are many new bands who just copy this and that or who release the same album over and over again (not DT or BG though) so the age or quality isnt really an argument..

i still think that maiden is way more powerful than all those melodic metal bands..

OT: The Quote Button is somehow mixed up here? Is is just me or is the graphic broken?

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:37 am**

Sorry if I sound confrontational but...
In my humble opinion the thing about bands like Maiden, Sabbath, you know the legends was that they created something new, a sound of their own which still today can be heard. When you hear Sabbath you recognize it immediately. When you hear Maiden you recognize it the instant. Plus, they had good songs.

Progressive metal...some good bands in the genre but far too many bands just rehashing the bigger prog bands or indulging in plain musical wankery, unable to write a proper song even if someone dictated it to them. You should never mistake lack of songwriting skill and ability to throw in odd time-structures and fast playing for actual genious...

Power Metal the future? God forbid, no...Again, in life as in music there are leaders and then there are followers...with power metal the amount of followers is staggering. Helloween created a sound of their own, which was amazing. Strato refined that sound to cool new frontiers and did some amazing songs while doing that. Nowadays...let me put it this way. Format. Power metal today is one of the most formatized genres of music...even a lot of the MTV drivel pop can be seen as being more innovative considering experimentation with new sounds or structures. I don't want to insult the germans but come on...how many copies of the same thing can ya actually do and still have people buying it? Shave that moustache off now, please.

Uhhh...this became a bit more mean that I wanted but hey, I'm a mean but passionate music fan...

And don't throw the "What about black/thrash/whatevermetal -card at me...there are good and lousy bands in every genre. Ugh...I have spoken.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:44 am**

I growed up with all the band you've mentioned. By that time all of them were progressive and each album brought something new. Now I still like these bands though I think they're stopped in their development.

Hear Strotovarius albums: til 1997 constantly growing. Then several albums that sounds much good, but nothing new. Now: almost pop-metal like Europe, Bon Jove etc. (Please don't kill me for these words

).

I don't want to tell that I don't like "Elements". I hear it rather often with pleasure. But it seems to me that IM, JP, & many others (& Strato too) needs new blood to reanimate. New people - new ideas, isn't it?

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:13 pm**

Kurva Bicha wrote: I don't want to insult the germans but come on...how many copies of the same thing can ya actually do and still have people buying it? Shave that moustache off now, please.

I dont get your point

We dont have that many clones i think..

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:09 pm**

Well, i couldn´t follow your point here:
1- If we have too many bands sounding the same it means Heavy Metal is dead;
2- If we have some speed/melodic/progressive bands, they are the future, and the old Heavy Metal is dead.
3- In fact, there´s no credit to the Classical ones...Heavy Metal started cheasy and cheap.

So? By that i have to assume Heavy Metal is dead from the moment it started....

I believe that music is evolution. That´s what Elvis did. That´s what the Beatles did. That´s what Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Rush and even Helloween and all classic bands did. They started a new style of music, different from the main ones at the time.

That´s what Stratovarius, Blind Guardian, Dream Theater, and many others are doing. Maybe not so dramastic, but there´s some unique styles in all of their songs, apart from those, who can´t create. They are developing another variation of the style.
It takes a while to a Physician discover a revolutionary theory, doesn´t it? It´s not something we see every day...but that doesn´t mean Physics is dead.
Heavy Metal is breathing well, taking pussies and rolling just fine, my friend.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:25 pm**

Administrator wrote:It is also true that those bands are very much personated around their vocalists. Everybody knows that Halford was and is the vocalist of Priest but how many knows for instance who is the drummer?

It used to be a paedophilic

(this joke was obvious).

I believe that Heavy Metal is not dead, it just, as 59 Times The Pain said about punk music, smells funny.

NP: Marea - No Quiero Ser Un Poeta

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:28 pm**

Twilightsymphony wrote: I dont get your point
We dont have that many clones i think..

Metalium, Chinchilla, Freedom Call, Custard, The Armada, Avalon, Black Abyss, Black Destiny, Brainstorm, Edge Of Thorns, Human Fortress, Iron Saviour, Majesty, Mob Rules, Mystic Prophecy, Paragon, Rough Silk, Sacred Steel, Scanner, Seventh Gate, Silent Force, Sinner, Solemnity, Soulslide, Squealer, Stormhammer, Stormrider, Stormwarrior, Stormwitch, Symphorce, Tyrant Eyes, Valley's Eve, Victory, Wolf's Moon...

Those pop in mind quite easily...
Plus the wealth of international format bands that german labels like Limb Music shovel out...

But again, chill, dude...this was not meant as an insult to yer nation...just as a coversational inflammant...

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:56 pm**

i can point some unique styles in some bands you´ve just mentioned.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:02 pm**

Kurva Bicha wrote: Metalium, Chinchilla, Freedom Call, Custard, The Armada, Avalon, Black Abyss, Black Destiny, Brainstorm, Edge Of Thorns, Human Fortress, Iron Saviour, Majesty, Mob Rules, Mystic Prophecy, Paragon, Rough Silk, Sacred Steel, Scanner, Seventh Gate, Silent Force, Sinner, Solemnity, Soulslide, Squealer, Stormhammer, Stormrider, Stormwarrior, Stormwitch, Symphorce, Tyrant Eyes, Valley's Eve, Victory, Wolf's Moon...

Well.. ok, but we can say about almost all power/melodic bands.. and there are many from other countries, all those italian and finnish bands for example

I disagree about Scanner and Stormwitch though, those bands are pretty old and dont have too much in common with the others

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:09 pm**

Okokokokokokokokokok...

I shut up...
I just personally still remember when and where my power metal fandom started and ended altogether...
I mean, I had liked Helloween a lot since mid 80's, but:

Stratovarius: Episode..."Oh my friggin' god!!! These songs make me want to bang my head against the wall and stagedive from my couch...amazing!!!

Freedom Call: 1..."Oh my friggin' god!!! These songs have all the melodies from children's songs...they make me want to bang my head against the wall and start to listen to Christina Aquilera!!!! Even the song order is sorta format...the 4th song...YES!! The obligatory "Egypt" song!!! Ok, where are my Mercyful Fate vinyls?

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:15 pm**

MAJINDIEGO perhaps i had used a bad question in headline...i was trying to say that heavy metal is dying, it has nothing more to give, tough i do not question it;s role in the past... here i can use your metaphore with physics...if one physician will come with different theory which will cancel almost evrything in todays physics he could´ve hardly done it without "old physics...and it works just the same in metal...maiden and co. developed metal and had staye din one current branch-the Heavy metal...BUT the Heavy Metal is no longer interesting (IMO) and new branches, more INOVATIVE branches are taking their place as metal pilgrims...I can compare it to history...Maiden and co. can be considered as anciet Greeks while BG,DT,Strato,SX and todays grand bands can be considered as, i dunno todays people...yes we thank anciet greeks for many things but we are not trying to return to their lifestyle...

thus i can easily say that heavy metal is unstoppably dying...and it will die out (maybe except maiden) completly in less thean 10 years...

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:46 pm**

But then again I think that the bands that have in recent times taken the metal thing and truly taken it beyond what has been done come mostly outside the strict power metal genre...

The first to pop in mind would be Arcturus, Ulver, Opeth, Vintersorg, The Dillinger Escape Plan...

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:55 pm**

Yeah kinda, i dont have the feeling that the melodic genre has very much to offer anymore.. in the last years we saw so many Helloween/Strato and Hammerfall clones.. thats not funny anymore.. and i actually think that also the major MelodicBands dont have that much inovation anymore.

Then we had/have this huge "epic" wave, tons of bands now have orchestral elements in their songs, even Nightwish, Edguy and so on.. and i have to say the only band which is truly convincing is Therion, with which it all actually started

Most creative atm are many of those progressive/genre mixing black/death metallic bands imo, like Opeth, Finntroll, Ensiferum and so on

But i wont say that a genre dies. I buy cds from all periods of metal and i dont care if it is modern or "outdated" its the same music like 10-30 years ago, so...

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:58 pm**

Heavy metal most certainly isn't dead. Megadeth, Helloween, Dream theater, Slayer and Death are very different sounding.
After the mid nineties came new good bands that aren,t too similar to those above: Children of bodom, Nightwish, Norther.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:03 pm**

TWLIGHT SYMPHONY yes you are right...thats because i mentioned exactly THESE bands which are still having something to offer...for example Blind Guardian never made a record same as previous...each time there was clear evolution a pushing their genre to higher level....same with DT tough they made errors (Falling Into infinity and Train Of Tought)...and they are still improving...persinally i annot stand hammerfall,dark moor,lost horizon,labyrinth because they just copy something I have heard before...

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:56 pm**

No, it isn't dead... It will always live, as long as there's one last person fighting for it... Perhaps it will outlive us all...

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 4:56 pm**

Twilightsymphony wrote:
Most creative atm are many of those progressive/genre mixing black/death metallic bands imo, like Opeth, Finntroll, Ensiferum and so on

...

Thanks man...

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:42 pm**

Heavy metal isn't dead, it's alive and kicking and constantly evolving ... Those who try new things, mix the seemingly unmixable genres will survive and will be remembered, various clones will get their 15 minutes of fame and will vanish ... I'm optimistic about metal's future as you might see

I agree about the situation in power metal today, there are just too much clones, that's why I stopped listening to power metal ... There are lots of much more imaginative bands to listen to ...

BTW, Kurva, The Dillinger Escape Plan rule! Those guys redefined the term "extreme music" ... :headbang:

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:52 pm**

"The Gods Made Heavy Metal And It’s Never Gonna Die"

Seems like the only power metal band, that isn't copying the Keepers -era Helloween are Helloween themself.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:21 pm**

In town where I live glam rock is in trend again.Boys wearing like candies and are skating

. It allmost makes me cry.Thank god there is some goths and heavy metallers (listening allmost everykind of metal) still.Iam not saying that there is some bad in the 80s metal.There are maaaany classics like helloween and maiden. And no heavy metal is not dead ang its not gonna die.

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:11 pm**

Mormegil wrote:
Seems like the only power metal band, that isn't copying the Keepers -era Helloween are Helloween themself.

And i´m actually quite happy about that

Posted: **Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:47 pm**

LittleHarry, please tell us what do you know as 'Heavy Metal'... your concepts are somewhat difficult to understand

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:58 am**

Hmmm... let's see.

I can say for sure:

Kurt Cobain is dead.
Cliff Burton is dead.
Randy Rhoads is dead.
Chuck Schuldiner is dead.
Immortal is dead.

About Heavy Metal:

Nightwish is just released one of their best albums;
Children of Bodom is bigger each day pass;
Arch Enemy idem, and it´s working in the next album;
Angra is about to release their next album, which was considered a masterpiece by the japanese press;
Helloween ressurected with RDCE;
Iron Maiden made one of the biggest shows Brazil ever saw;
Judas Priest is back with the classic line-up;
Wacken is one of the biggest open air festivals in Europe;
Death Angel is back;
Exodus is back;
Stratovarius will be back;
Some days ago, a boy (15 years old) asked me for some Black Sabbath mp3, but I said I didn't have because I DON'T LIKE IT.

I could be writing here for an entire day...

Is heavy metal dead? Ha... we've heard this bullshit for 10, 20 years! And it's interesting that hm is always there. I guess LittleHarry's taste for metal is really dying, or already dead. No matter how many times people try to KILL heavy metal, there will ever be new bands, new fans and new idiots to say this kind of things.

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:26 am**

StratoHeart wrote:Hmmm... let's see.

Is heavy metal dead? Ha... we've heard this bullshit for 10, 20 years! And it's interesting that hm is always there. I guess LittleHarry's taste for metal is really dying, or already dead. No matter how many times people try to KILL heavy metal, there will ever be new bands, new fans and new idiots to say this kind of things.

well i do not know but i do not consider Nightwish,Angra,Stratovarius and so on Heavy Metal Bands...for me Heavy Metal are iron maiden,judas priest,manowar,hammerfall,motorhead,black sabbath,van halen and bands like this...

only the fact that band exist doesn;t mean it´s productive...the band that plays the same on 20 albums isn´t aliving one...and that´s what these bands are doing...except great vocalist THEY can no longer offer anything..

about my dying taste to metal...I LOVE METAL...i like Speed Metal,Progressive Metal,some Power Metal,Doom Metal,Melodic Black Death Metal, Melodic Black Metal and so on...of course that in these genres there are also copiers ,but in these genres are bands with albums that can give you something new even after 1000000. listening...that is what never feeled when listening to maiden,priest and co.

BTW I consider total blasphemy calling CHILDREN OF BODOM heavy metal...

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:39 am**

LittleHarry wrote:
StratoHeart wrote: BTW I consider total blasphemy calling CHILDREN OF BODOM heavy metal...
I consider it blasphemous to call them Melodic Death

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:54 am**

yes but sadly thatś what they´re playing...they are saying it themselves...

Posted: **Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:21 am**

Motorhead can't offer anything? So they release very similar stuff over and over again, so what? They are still better than countless power/prog/whatever clones that are desperately trying to get their 15 minutes of fame ...

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