Is Putin on the Warpath?

[browneyedgirl]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19013495

Is this the beginning of another "Cold War"?
Or worse? Is this the first steps of the journey on the path to Armageddon?

Either way, IMO, Putin's anger is real&should e taken seriously.

[NeonVomit]

You love starting threads like this dont you?

Russia is not happy with the missile defence system, saying that it will upset the balance of world power. Putin is not on a warpath, he's just talking tough because he can. Russia possesses vast oil and natural gas supplies. All he has to do is turn off the gas supply in January to make other countries do what he wants. He can make other countries suffer without firing a single shot.

Besides, the missile sheild is a waste of resources and time. If someone wanted to strike America or Europe with a weapon of mass destruction, it most certainly would not come from a missile. North Korea's longest-reaching missile can (theoretically) just about get half way across the Pacific, Iran does not possess technology of the sort. The only countries that could realistically carry out such an attack are the USA, France, Great Britain, Russia, China, India and Pakistan (and the last two are a stretch, they're too busy aiming all their nukes at each other).

If a weapon of mass destruction is targeted at the Western world, it will be in a covert manner, in a van or snuck in otherwise.

And any nation stupid enough to carry out such an attack would be obliterated from the face of the earth, I don't care about anyone's biblical 'day of reckoning' beliefs. No nation on earth would dare to carry out anything of the sort. Do you think any country in the world would have dared to have a direct hand in the attacks of 9/11/2001?

And name me an individual organisation that has the means and technology to build an intercontinental ballistic missile? Those things do tend to be noticed. Unlike any other form of weaponry, advanced long-range ballistic missiles cannot be developed or even maintained for short periods of time without vast resources and infrastructure to support them.

[stratoplayer]

You love starting threads like this dont you?

Russia is not happy with the missile defence system, saying that it will upset the balance of world power. Putin is not on a warpath, he's just talking tough because he can. Russia possesses vast oil and natural gas supplies. All he has to do is turn off the gas supply in January to make other countries do what he wants. He can make other countries suffer without firing a single shot.

Besides, the missile sheild is a waste of resources and time. If someone wanted to strike America or Europe with a weapon of mass destruction, it most certainly would not come from a missile. North Korea's longest-reaching missile can (theoretically) just about get half way across the Pacific, Iran does not possess technology of the sort. The only countries that could realistically carry out such an attack are the USA, France, Great Britain, Russia, China, India and Pakistan (and the last two are a stretch, they're too busy aiming all their nukes at each other).

If a weapon of mass destruction is targeted at the Western world, it will be in a covert manner, in a van or snuck in otherwise.

And any nation stupid enough to carry out such an attack would be obliterated from the face of the earth, I don't care about anyone's biblical 'day of reckoning' beliefs. No nation on earth would dare to carry out anything of the sort. Do you think any country in the world would have dared to have a direct hand in the attacks of 9/11/2001?

And name me an individual organisation that has the means and technology to build an intercontinental ballistic missile? Those things do tend to be noticed. Unlike any other form of weaponry, advanced long-range ballistic missiles cannot be developed or even maintained for short periods of time without vast resources and infrastructure to support them.

Yeah, considering how terrorists can't even get a SCUD missile, how would they possibly get an ICBM, plus, there are hundreds of stations that pick up anything larger than a Cesna when it is flight, a huge orbital ballistic missile tends to be noticed...

[browneyedgirl]

I do not think this issue or topic is concerning terrorists.
Anyway, Russia has upgraded their nuclear missiles. Some now have a longer range, too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6209236.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4667532.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6717927.stm

NATO does not think Putin is just yapping his mouth---NATO takes Putin quite seriously!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6719507.stm

[Shurik]

Those are Russia's delusions of grandeur again ... Putin still thinks that Russia is a world power and that cold war is not such a bad idea. He was a member of Soviet secret service, this is how he was taught to think and nothing will change it.

[browneyedgirl]

Bush's speech in Prague wil probably irk/annoy Putin.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19040836


Bush, apparently has not heard the redneck saying, "let sleeping dogs lie". Or, in this case, "sleeping bears."

[miditek]

Putin probably cannot be trusted, despite the President Bush's previous and/or (possible) current affinity for him.

Forty years ago this very week (Six Day War) Israel fought her enemies (who were armed with weapons, training, and advisers provided by Moscow). I am sure that it must have been quite a shock and embarrassment to the Kremlin to see it's weapons and tactics humiliated on the battlefield yet again.

Forty years later, we see Israel's enemies still being armed by Moscow (see the Iranian nuclear thread here in this forum), and also this time with nuclear reactors inside of Iran itself. Ahmandinejad's Shi'ite eschatological rhetoric continues to escalate, while the rest of the world sleeps off last night's hangover.

When the alarm clock finally does ring, it will be a rather rude awakening, and all of this could happen in the blink of an eye.

We'll soon see if the Russian Duma passes proposed legislation that will allow the former KGB colonel a third term in office. Although I'm not the (sports) gambling type, I'll wager ten bucks right now that the legislation passes in Putin's favor.

[browneyedgirl]

At the risk of being ridiculed, I will say that slowly the world is on the March toward Armegeddon. Shrug or laugh it off if you want to, but all the signs are there. And, I don't just mean distress of nations or war, either.
Things will accelerate as time goes on, and there is no turning back.

But, its still a beautiful&hopeful world. And, the world to come will be even more so.

[NeonVomit]

At the risk of being ridiculed, I will say that slowly the world is on the March toward Armegeddon. Shrug or laugh it off if you want to, but all the signs are there. And, I don't just mean distress of nations or war, either.
Things will accelerate as time goes on, and there is no turning back.

People have been saying exactly the same thing since time immemorial.

[TimoTolkki]

At the risk of being ridiculed, I will say that slowly the world is on the March toward Armegeddon. Shrug or laugh it off if you want to, but all the signs are there. And, I don't just mean distress of nations or war, either.
Things will accelerate as time goes on, and there is no turning back.

But, its still a beautiful&hopeful world. And, the world to come will be even more so.

In a way you are right, it´s just that this "Armageddon" has nothing to do with the Bible. All neurotic systems are doomed to collapse and mankind is no difference. Jesus won´t be back and the heavens will not open. Mankind will face its end because of its selfishness and arrogance towards the nature and the planet.

[Martine]

In a way or another, we are doomed. It has just been announced (a week ago) that our solar system is about to get hit by its neighbour Andromeda in 2 billion years (instead of 4 as they previously announced). Ok, ok, it is far from now but still, bye bye all living creatures on Earth.

Let's mention though that when this time comes, we will be already extinguised, whether because of our selfishness, like Timo said, or because the Sun is expanding (it is about a teenager right now), or, more fortunately because we will have moved to another world (and hopefully will we take more care of it).

We, human beings, are intelligent enough to realize that even if we unfortunately accelerate our "termination", it was meant to happen anyway. This is part of evolution. The only "animal" who yet survived 500,000 years is the ant.

[nepi]

At the risk of being ridiculed, I will say that slowly the world is on the March toward Armegeddon. Shrug or laugh it off if you want to, but all the signs are there. And, I don't just mean distress of nations or war, either.
Things will accelerate as time goes on, and there is no turning back.

But, its still a beautiful&hopeful world. And, the world to come will be even more so.

Maybe it will be the last thing on earth, Armageddon, but I hope this clash will never exist!

I don't like Bush!!!! And I am not a huge fan of Putin, but thru the last months, he wons my sympathy. He said: "We would not create more (nuclear) weapons, america is pushing the armament so we have to keep pace with the USA".
--> bloody true! USA is heating up the armament and their idea of a neo-imperialism (to rule the world, to control every country) is so wrong and also enormous dangerous! We all can talk about luck Bush's era is ending soon, otherwise I think he had attacked iran...

When I think about what Bush has done in his era, I could p*ke.... And as I saw Al Gore's an inconvenient truth I am so sure, he had done a muchmuch better job!!!!!
I know, these words are supported by all of you

[NeonVomit]

I know, these words are supported by all of you

That's a dangerous way to think.

[browneyedgirl]

Its nice to have a scapegoat to relieve our anger&depression over the world's situation, but getting rid of Bush is not going to solve the problems of this world. Sorry, but in reality its not going to be that simple.

BTW, North Korea tested more short-range missiles.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19087564

Before anyone dismisses these tests with a "Ah, those puny missiles ain't going no place" let me say that these tests, and puny missiles or not, means the North Koreans have not given up. They are still trying to perfect their armaments.

[TimoTolkki]

Its nice to have a scapegoat to relieve our anger&depression over the world's situation, but getting rid of Bush is not going to solve the problems of this world. Sorry, but in reality its not going to be that simple.

BTW, North Korea tested more short-range missiles.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19087564

Before anyone dismisses these tests with a "Ah, those puny missiles ain't going no place" let me say that these tests, and puny missiles or not, means the North Koreans have not given up. They are still trying to perfect their armaments.

I think it´s time for ALSO America to look to the mirror.

[browneyedgirl]

Its nice to have a scapegoat to relieve our anger&depression over the world's situation, but getting rid of Bush is not going to solve the problems of this world. Sorry, but in reality its not going to be that simple.

BTW, North Korea tested more short-range missiles.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19087564

Before anyone dismisses these tests with a "Ah, those puny missiles ain't going no place" let me say that these tests, and puny missiles or not, means the North Koreans have not given up. They are still trying to perfect their armaments.

I think it´s time for ALSO America to look to the mirror.

Yes, its very nice to have a scapegoat. USA is not the only imperfect nation in the world. If by chance, a long-shot, that USA falls--most of the nations of the world will crumble with it.

[TimoTolkki]

Its nice to have a scapegoat to relieve our anger&depression over the world's situation, but getting rid of Bush is not going to solve the problems of this world. Sorry, but in reality its not going to be that simple.

BTW, North Korea tested more short-range missiles.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19087564

Before anyone dismisses these tests with a "Ah, those puny missiles ain't going no place" let me say that these tests, and puny missiles or not, means the North Koreans have not given up. They are still trying to perfect their armaments.

I think it´s time for ALSO America to look to the mirror.

Yes, its very nice to have a scapegoat. USA is not the only imperfect nation in the world. If by chance, a long-shot, that USA falls--most of the nations of the world will crumble with it.

Of course not. But it´s the most powerful one. And if it doesnt look to the mirror, then?? Of course no nation with large interest in financial/political/ideological interests will look to the mirror. It is part of the whole stupidity. Here we all try to defend our countries and what is forgotten totally what is actually happening in the world. THAT is what really matters.

[browneyedgirl]

Its nice to have a scapegoat to relieve our anger&depression over the world's situation, but getting rid of Bush is not going to solve the problems of this world. Sorry, but in reality its not going to be that simple.

BTW, North Korea tested more short-range missiles.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19087564

Before anyone dismisses these tests with a "Ah, those puny missiles ain't going no place" let me say that these tests, and puny missiles or not, means the North Koreans have not given up. They are still trying to perfect their armaments.

I think it´s time for ALSO America to look to the mirror.

Yes, its very nice to have a scapegoat. USA is not the only imperfect nation in the world. If by chance, a long-shot, that USA falls--most of the nations of the world will crumble with it.

Of course not. But it´s the most powerful one. And if it doesnt look to the mirror, then?? Of course no nation with large interest in financial/political/ideological interests will look to the mirror. It is part of the whole stupidity. Here we all try to defend our countries and what is forgotten totally what is actually happening in the world. THAT is what really matters.

Sorry to disappoint you, but if the USA ceases to exist today, or simply lost its power&influence, it still would not be a perfect utopian world. As long as there are 2 people on the Earth(no matter of what nationality)there are going to be conflicts. Maybe one day the world will get their wish and the USA will be blown to smitherees. The happiness at such an event would not last long once reality sets in.
But, what do you suggest?
USA get rid of all nuclear weapons?
USA get out of Iraq?
USA make the Catholic Church illegal?
USA impeach Bush?

I mean, seriously. We have people trying to tell USA how to run itslf&criticizing its policies, but no concrete suggestions.

[TimoTolkki]

Maybe one day the world will get their wish and the USA will be blown to smitherees. The happiness at such an event would not last long once reality sets in.

I don´t wish for any country to be blown to smithereens.

But, what do you suggest?
USA get rid of all nuclear weapons?

Yes and all other countries too

USA get out of Iraq?

They cannot do that. It would be even bigger mess. They started it in the
first place and now they have to deal with it. At the moment US troops are naturally the only stabilizing force there since what it did was, it replaced Saddam´s regime. The country is already in civil war and that would be escalated furthermore.

USA make the Catholic Church illegal?

USA does not have any authority over Vatican as far as I know, but I believe in freedom in choosing one´s religion or spiritual practice or non practice, so no.

USA impeach Bush?

Bush and some of his close circle should be brought to trial to Hague for
illegal attack to Iraq. I cannot believe this is not happening and the international community doesn´t do anything.

[Stealth]

If by chance, a long-shot, that USA falls--most of the nations of the world will crumble with it.

This is the sheer arrogance that annoys so many people. Of course the US is not the only imperfect nation; all nations are imperfect in one way or another, which makes sense considering that they are all inhabited by imperfect human beings. But to claim that most of the nations of the world would crumble if the US falls is placing waaay too much power in the US. Granted, some nations would suffer economically or socially, but many others would have more freedom to develop themselves (I include South American nations in this category).

what do you suggest?
USA get rid of all nuclear weapons?

Yes.

USA get out of Iraq?

Yes.

USA make the Catholic Church illegal?

No.

USA impeach Bush?

Yes.

[Martine]

When we were young, my sister and I used to squabble with each other until my mom would intervene and take the side of one or the other. Then my sister and I would join our force together and turn against our mother and become friends again. She would laugh and go. She was the most intelligent woman ever.

Well, I guess that what works for a simple family would for the whole world as well. I think that until and only when a third party will get into the fight, between America (and all capitalist countries, including Canada and Finland) and the rest of the world (Middle East and their allies), nothing will evolve. When it happens, let's see which two sides join their force against which other.

As far as I am concerned, Japanese will get there soon won't they?

[miditek]

While we're on the subject of Putin, here's something interesting that I found in a book that I was reading:

Epicenter: by Joel C. Rosenberg

Chapter VII: Future Headline
A Czar rises in Russia, raising fears of a new Cold War

(Note: This book was published in 2006)

Today's headlines?

Putin raises spectre of nuclear war in Europe
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1878730.ece

This article was published on June 4, 2007.

Coincidence? Naysayers: fire at will!

[NeonVomit]

And what exactly would Russia gain from a nuclear war?

You can't use the 'religious fundamentalist' excuse with Putin.

[browneyedgirl]

Putin does not have to fire a single missile, IMO, just a serious threat will give him the results he needs.


"The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

[NeonVomit]

Putin does not have to fire a single missile, IMO, just a serious threat will give him the results he needs.


"The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Exactly. Russia possesses vast oil and natural gas reserves, that the West want and need. You don't like what we do? We'll not sell you gas and sell it to China instead. Have a nice winter!

He's got the cards.

[miditek]

Putin does not have to fire a single missile, IMO, just a serious threat will give him the results he needs.


"The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Exactly. Russia possesses vast oil and natural gas reserves, that the West want and need. You don't like what we do? We'll not sell you gas and sell it to China instead. Have a nice winter!

He's got the cards.

Threats and coercion are classic examples of the Kremlin's diplomacy. This was just a randomly picked headline from a long list that we have to choose from. In recent years, Putin has interfered with Georgia, Ukraine, and other former satellites. This is also the guy that said that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century. (I wonder if he's forgotten about Operation: Barbarossa? That would certainly qualify as one, imo.)

[NeonVomit]

Putin does not have to fire a single missile, IMO, just a serious threat will give him the results he needs.


"The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Exactly. Russia possesses vast oil and natural gas reserves, that the West want and need. You don't like what we do? We'll not sell you gas and sell it to China instead. Have a nice winter!

He's got the cards.

Threats and coercion are classic examples of the Kremlin's diplomacy. This was just a randomly picked headline from a long list that we have to choose from. In recent years, Putin has interfered with Georgia, Ukraine, and other former satellites. This is also the guy that said that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest catastrophe of the 20th century. (I wonder if he's forgotten about Operation: Barbarossa? That would certainly qualify as one, imo.)

America could be said to have 'interfered' in many, many other places as well. Works both ways!

[Mesqu]

Well.... Putin is making his kind of pressure, but I think it is not real.... Bush has not so much power in USA in these days... but it is needed to be carefull with them...

[browneyedgirl]

Putin's press conference. He has quite the silver tongue.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... /17855.htm

[Rebel]

Bush and some of his close circle should be brought to trial to Hague for
illegal attack to Iraq. I cannot believe this is not happening and the international community doesn´t do anything.

Because if you try and go after Dick Cheney, he'll shoot you in the face.