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I am not in the least bit surprised.Kokordilos wrote:You know I couldn't believe it, but MSNBC just reported that Japan suspects North Korea may have very recently just tested a SECOND bomb!
miditek wrote:NeonVomit wrote:I've read a few sources, and no it wasn't the 'The al-Jazeera Revisionist Encyclopedia', please don't insult me in that manner, I never do. I also happened to be in Saudi Arabia when the war started, and my dad was there the whole time after me and my mum were evacuated. (That's the first of two wars which I was directly affected by, and I'd really rather not go into the second one).browneyedgirl wrote: Jesus, Joseph, and Mary!What history book did that come out of? The al-Jazeera Revisionist Encyclopedia? U.S. forces lost less than 200 KIA (Killed in Action), while the Iraqis lost over 100,000 in a ground war that lasted all of 100 hours, during Gulf War I?
What tactical blunders were made by which units and where were these units supposed to have been located at? The notion that the Iraqis almost won defies documented historical facts, and not to mention military science itself. I'm quite sure that Clausewitz and Rommel would have considered Schwarzkopf to be a brilliant and highly competent field commander.
Remember when you said the camera doesn't lie? Well, the video camera doesn't lie either, especially when regular Iraqi forces are on film surrendering to an American news cameraman!
It would be less than objective to suggest that NATO airstrikes (which also included Luftwaffe combat sorties for the first time in almost 60 years) had little influence on the withdrawl of Serb/Yugoslav security forces from the Kosovo province. This allowed the ground forces in KFOR to be much more effective in their jobs to secure the area.
Moreover, Milosevic and his gang were indicted for war crimes, as well as crimes against humanity, and finally, he was removed from power. NATO military action certainly played a role in this.
And Kim should not forget that while he does have a handful of small nuclear weapons at last, the United States has 30,000 thermonuclear weapons for deterrence in its own arsenal.
Saddam had the upper hand in the beginning. Of course, the war turned against him very quickly, but he did have opportunities to advance much further and be in a position of strength. Perhaps 'victory' not the correct word to use, but he could have caused a lot more damage and held a lot more territory. Nor was I doubting Schwartzkopf's abilities, he wasn't a 4-star general for nothing, and it probably was his skill that prevented Saddam from doing a lot more than he did.
Milosevic was ousted from power by his own people, plain and simple. During the NATO campaign they rallied behind the regime like nothing else imaginable could have caused them to. The government organised parties on strategic bridges and buildings, and people showed up in their thousands, instead of hiding in their basements like they could have. Some friends of mine actually played a concert on one of those bridges at that time.
The widely-held view is that the bombing campaign was pretty much ineffective in terms of material damage. Many canvas tents with logs sticking out with a fire built inside (to look like tanks on infrared scanners) were destroyed. Its effect was mostly psychological, and Slobo knew when it was time to back down over Kosovo before the people got tired of supporting him. The point of the bombing campaign was to break Slobo's resolve, not destroy the armed forces. Many people in Serbia still regard it as a Serb victory over Nato however, because the armed forces of the country were actually not as badly affected as one might think, and (an important factor) they managed to get some concessions from Nato on the actual pull out. To think that the campaign had Serb forces fleeing out of the province is not correct. They did however, leave after the government had had enough of the pressure. This is one thing that I think air power is good for, it is a very powerful psychological weapon.
It would of course be naive to think that the bombing campaign had no effect on Slobo's eventual downfall, but to claim that it was responsible for it is deeply flawed.
Anyhow, that's not the issue now. I'm just glad that the people of Serbia finally had enough of Slobo and ousted him themselves without outside intervention, and that the casualties in the bombing campaign weren't as heavy as they could've been. A good example to other peoples in the world under an authoritarian ruler, a sign that for a country to overcome a despotic regime, they don't necessarily need another country to come in and do it for them.
The issue here is, I don't think Kim seems to realise or care that America could wipe his little kingdom out 300 times over. If anyone has any indicators or signs that he is actually in touch with reality, I'd like to see them. Even his traditional supporter China is fed up of his antics and has started hinting at sanctions (useless as they may be), but that hasn't deterred him in the least. Although I don't imagine it happening, it would be deeply satisfying to see China's army roll over their virtually unguarded northern border and tie up this Cold War loose end once and for all.
Of course, the N Korean army is probably not nearly as tactically sophisticated or well-trained as the Serbian army was (a few officers I knew in the army had done some cross training with Serb officers, and said they were the toughest, hardest, most experienced and most cunning ones they'd ever worked with) so perhaps it's concievable to envision their entire artillery being annihilated by focused B-52 strikes. But herein lies another issue... Kim's generals probably know this, and will strive to cause as much damage to Seoul (within easy reach) and the surrounding army installments as they possibly can, before a retaliatory strike can occurr. All this while about a million N Korean troops roll over the border. I'll try to look up what sort of artillery N Korea has, if it's towed-type then I imagine they'd get about 5-10 rounds off before being hit back, if it's self-propelled then considerably more. Basically, most of Seoul will be reduced to ruins, with sickening casualties, before the B-52's have a chance to get there. It would take roughly 40 or less seconds for an artillery shell to hit Seoul once fired (I served in the artillery, this is one aspect of military technology I am very familiar with). Again, the eventual outcome of the war is probably not in doubt, but just think of how many thousands upon thousands will die. Would it be worth it? And of course, once the war actually starts, what's to stop Kim from using his nukes properly? How many Korean civilians and US soldiers will die then? What's to stop him from launching a few at Japan for good measure? The potential catastrophe is mind-numbing. Just because the continental United States won't be affected doesn't mean that this isn't a problem.
And the saddest thing of all... why do you think S Korea has been persuing their 'Sunshine Policy' to the North? There are no ethnic or religious differences between the peoples of North and South Korea. It is all political. So the 'them v.s. us' mindset is not nearly as strong as it is in other places. They don't want a war, not just because of the terrible damage and horrendous casualties that will certainly ensue, but they don't want to fight against other Koreans.
NeonVomit wrote:I've read a few sources, and no it wasn't the 'The al-Jazeera Revisionist Encyclopedia', please don't insult me in that manner, I never do.
)
Is this something to be concerned with.It's a lot of money up front for the Kremlin, that's for sure, and not to mention the frequently lucrative spare parts, and preventative maintenance agreements. It's a nice addition to their growing oil revenues, as the world's number two petroleum exporter.browneyedgirl wrote:I hate to dig up an old topic, but it seems Russia is going to aid Iran in a missile defense program.
Money+the need to feel a superpower again. They will sell their own mothers if it can somehow hurt the americans and their allies, which is kinda dumb because Cold War ended 15 years ago. That's what happens when you have an ex-KGB agent as a president ...I've long since given up trying to figure out what Russia is up to anyway.
So what's so strange about all that? It simply means that Russia is exactly how it's been for the last.... well... since forever.stratohawk wrote:Strange things are going on in Russia nowadays. I don't want to judge, I simply have the impression that the country is politically heading back to some kind if "hidden totalitarianism". Critics of the government live in dangerous circumstances. And the behaviour of Russian troops in Chechnya is one of the most disgusting examples for occupation and suppression by military. There are still reports from Amnesty International that people (especially young men) disappear during nights and are never seen again.
Several other sources have confirmed the story, though. It's a rather large deal, financially speaking, although the political and military implications of this are also far too large to escape notice of the general public. Syria has also been purchasing similar air defense systems from Russia as well.NeonVomit wrote:Not exactly the most impartial of sources.
NeonVomit wrote:However, I wouldn't be too surprised. It would give Russia bargining power... although they have their fair share of troubles with Islamic extremism, so why help Iran of all people?
NeonVomit wrote:although they have their fair share of troubles with Islamic extremism, so why help Iran of all people?
Just a suggestion (don't get angry now, ok?), but what Russia (as well as Persia, for that matter) is up to is outlined pretty clearly in Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39.NeonVomit wrote:I've long since given up trying to figure out what Russia is up to anyway.
stratohawk wrote:Strange things are going on in Russia nowadays. I don't want to judge, I simply have the impression that the country is politically heading back to some kind if "hidden totalitarianism". Critics of the government live in dangerous circumstances.
I'm not excusing the Russian army's behavior at all, but where the hell where they (Amnesty International) during the Moscow theater siege, the apartment tenement bombings, or the attacks on the school at Beslan? What the Chechen terrorists have done is equally reprehensible, and one does have to wonder what they are thinking by launching attacks against Russians? Not the smartest career move for them, in my opinion. The Kremlin can be extremely vengeful towards its enemies, as history has shown.stratohawk wrote:And the behaviour of Russian troops in Chechnya is one of the most disgusting examples for occupation and suppression by military. There are still reports from Amnesty International that people (especially young men) disappear during nights and are never seen again.
Well I want to comment two things about that:miditek wrote:I'm not excusing the Russian army's behavior at all, but where the hell where they (Amnesty International) during the Moscow theater siege, the apartment tenement bombings, or the attacks on the school at Beslan?stratohawk wrote:And the behaviour of Russian troops in Chechnya is one of the most disgusting examples for occupation and suppression by military. There are still reports from Amnesty International that people (especially young men) disappear during nights and are never seen again.
A very Utopian notion, although not too realistic, in my opinion. The scope of the Islamic insurgency is in fact, a global one. The USA and its interests are hardly the only targets. There has also been lots of trouble in Asia, such as Indian members of Parliament being assassinated (not to mention the ongoing fighting over Kashmir), bombings in Bali, Islamic insurgencies in Thailand and the Philippines, etc. African, as well as European, targets have also been hit.MetalPlatypus wrote:I have a very good solution for Miditek and other patriots. I hope that USA, Al Qaeda, Iran and North Korea all blow each other´s to smithereens. Then we will have peace in the world.
MetalPlatypus wrote:I have a very good solution for Miditek and other patriots. I hope that USA, Al Qaeda, Iran and North Korea all blow each other´s to smithereens. Then we will have peace in the world.
But, not with sentimentality.
When the USA falls, Europe will slip into oblivion as well, sweetie, so you better watch what you wish for! I don't know what countries think is a threat there(probably communications stuff)but, SA won't escape the Destiny, either.Sorry, but political grandstanding disguised as German court decisions will have little or no effect on Mr. Rumsfeld or any other current or former official in the US government. German courts, as I'm sure that you are well aware, have absolutely no legal jurisdiction within the United States.MetalPlatypus wrote:It´s also very nice to see one of the terrorists Donald Rumsfeld, facing a courtcase with credible US evidence in Germany. I hope the next it is the monkey himself that will be "brought to justice" for starting an illegal war in Iraq without UN mandate and for starting the fascist US expansion in the world under the shroud of "war against terrorism". Everything is not at all how it looks like. Use your common sense.
Sorry, we will probably just have to agree to disagree on this issue. One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, I suppose.stratohawk wrote:Well I want to comment two things about that:miditek wrote:I'm not excusing the Russian army's behavior at all, but where the hell where they (Amnesty International) during the Moscow theater siege, the apartment tenement bombings, or the attacks on the school at Beslan?stratohawk wrote:And the behaviour of Russian troops in Chechnya is one of the most disgusting examples for occupation and suppression by military. There are still reports from Amnesty International that people (especially young men) disappear during nights and are never seen again.
1.)One part of AIs work is to discover war crimes and cruelties which are NOT in the media, which are not available to the public. The theater siege and Beslan have been pictured in every bloody detail in TV and newspapers. The kidnappings of innocent civilians in Chechnya ar not.
In their statistics of course the victims of the barbarian act of Beslan is mentioned as war crimes of Russian soldiers or any other army.
2.)Don't mix together the terrorists of Beslan or the theatre drama with Chechnyan rebels. They often have nothing in common except one goal, the liberty of Chechnya. Their ways and methods are completely different. On the one hand you have armed rebels that fight the Russian army, on the other hand you have terrorists that would spill every single civilians blood to achieve their radical aims (often coupled with Islamistic views). IMO that's a great difference.
stratohawk wrote:Sorry? I haven't heard of such a court yet. I'm reading the news every day, so this would be a suprise to me.
I would be inclined to believe that these are not separate groups, and that they are all one in the same. It is very likely that the majority of anti-Kremlin forces there were taking orders from both Maskhadov, as well as Basayev. Chechnya has been a thorn in Russia's side for well over a century, and this is unlikely to change.stratohawk wrote:But concerning the terrorist / freedom fighter issue: Wouldn't you say that there is a difference between separatists hiding and attacking an "invasor" (despite the fact that Chechnya in fact is Russian territory) and a terrorist that bombs house blocks, takes and kills children as hostages?
In short, they will never learn that armed resistance and/or terror activities against the Kremlin will only bring about more suffering to their own people. 80% of the infrastructure there has been destroyed, and any new attacks on Russians will only bring more destruction upon them. I'm rather surprised that Russia has not launched chemical or tactical nuclear strikes at Grozny, as there are very few targets left for conventional weapons.
And when you have an enemy, from within or without, military actions can often be classified as brutal.stratohawk wrote:Yes, Russia prevents every independent reporting from that crisis (just as the government supresses other critical media) because they are acting cruel, brutal and merciless in Chechnya.
Moscow does not wish to see western news organizations fanning the flames (a la Iraq) in an already bad situation.
From a military and political standpoint, what Moscow is doing makes perfect sense. I am not a supporter of the Kremlin or its policies, but at the very least, they are much better at controlling anti-government/anti-war activists than the Bush administration is.
Too many news organizations seem to consider themselves as policymakers or king makers (or breakers), as opposed to actually reporting the news. The Kremlin, to its credit, will not tolerate those types of propaganda games to be played out on CNN- who has recently been booted out of Russia. Too bad we can't do the same here in the States.
One can only imagine what would have happened if Ted Turner had been "embedded" with US forces at Normandy! (6,000 KIA in the first wave alone, so we'd better go home now.) "Oh my God! They just shot some SS or Fallschirmjager troops that were only trying to save France from the capitalist and imperialist warmongers! Let's stop the war so we can put these evil troops and their bosses on trial!" I suppose that the Vichy vermin in North Africa could also have been considered "freedom fighters" as well, I guess.
Well, the rest of the world is too busy frothing with it's favorite sentiment (anti-Americanism) and "rage" over Iraq. Bush is stupid for not putting al-Sadr's head on a pike as a message to the mullahs in Tehran that they could be next, if things continue to go the way that they are. If Iran wants things to spin out of control, then so be it, and perhaps the next target will be Iran itself.stratohawk wrote:That's nothing the rest of the world should see. There is a saying in Germany, meaning "out of view is out of mind/meaning/attention". That's exactly what's happening there. Violence has not ended, but the world doesn't notice anymore.
So I suppose that other hotspots, such as Lebanon, Afghanistan, Darfur, Kashmir, Gaza, and Chechnya will simply have to take a back seat for now. Priorities.
Ammadaboutjihad's announcement sounds like it was written either by DNC resident propagandist Howard Dean, or my favorite drunk driver, Teddy Kennedy.browneyedgirl wrote:A news release from leader of Iran.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15947213
I guess we will know later today what he had to say entirely.
Not to mention George Bush, whose fascist regime is spreading to the world like Adolf Hitler´s, but in a secretive, more clever way.Just see the amount of military bases USA has over the world and where and be surprised. And Rumsfeld will be brought to the court, if USA respects the international community. Of course it won´t, because it is itself a separated superpower that is controlling the entire world and considers its right to do whatever it wants without caring about international agreements. I am just happy to see their ass kicked big time in Irak daily. They are paying a high price for that oil they are pumping and from those rebuilding contracts. Are American people really that stupid that they let their kids to go to die to fucking Irak? For what?miditek wrote:Ammadaboutjihad's announcement sounds like it was written either by DNC resident propagandist Howard Dean, or my favorite drunk driver, Teddy Kennedy.browneyedgirl wrote:A news release from leader of Iran.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15947213
I guess we will know later today what he had to say entirely.
This guy is not even in the same league as his hero, Dr. Goebbels.
Oh c'mon! Even if you dislike the war in Iraq (like me) and think it's a means for US to get more influence, don't be so harsh on the people doing the dirty work. I really can't understand people who make such stupid comments and then whine about America's dislike for the rest of the world, cause your comments are one of the reasons for that disliking.MetalPlatypus wrote:I am just happy to see their ass kicked big time in Irak daily.
MetalPlatypus wrote:miditek wrote:Ammadaboutjihad's announcement sounds like it was written either by DNC resident propagandist Howard Dean, or my favorite drunk driver, Teddy Kennedy.browneyedgirl wrote:A news release from leader of Iran.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15947213
I guess we will know later today what he had to say entirely.
This guy is not even in the same league as his hero, Dr. Goebbels.America is a constitutional republic, not a fascist dictatorship. Bush is ineligible to run for the White House a third time, and even if he could, it's very unlikely that he would be reelected.MetalPlatypus wrote:Not to mention George Bush, whose fascist regime is spreading to the world like Adolf Hitler´s, but in a secretive, more clever way.
Moreover, if America's foreign policy were such a secretive, Machiavellian agenda, then how would an average citizen like yourself even be aware of this agenda, and what would you say specifically are the key points and goals of this plan?
And there are many foreign localities, such as the cities and towns that these bases are in, that certainly benefit economically from having the US military as a tenant. Jobs are created, and moreover, the bases in Western Europe in particular were absolutely necessary for reconstruction, security, and on-going defense.MetalPlatypus wrote:Just see the amount of military bases USA has over the world and where and be surprised.
Bases were also necessary in the Middle East, in order for the US to defend its allies, such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Israel, as well as to keep the strategically important Straits of Hormuz open, in the Persian Gulf. The US also assists another ally, Japan, in the Pacific region, as well as others such as Taiwan and Australia. Really, as the world's sole superpower, we have many responsibilities and agreements with many nations.
If Fascism was truly the goal of the United States, then there is really precious little that anyone would be able to do about it, but it should be fairly obvious to most people with reasonable levels of intelligence that the United States has been a good friend to its allies and friends.
Rumsfeld will never be tried by any foreign court, particularly a German one, with some crazy self-righteous judge that is seeking to further his own political career by unilaterally launching an investigation of a defense secretary of a government of which he has neither affiliation, nor jurisdiction. This was merely a political ploy, so the talk of the "international community" holds little weight, since the proposed legal action came from a German court, as opposed to the EU, UN, or the Hague's war crimes tribunal.MetalPlatypus wrote:And Rumsfeld will be brought to the court, if USA respects the international community.
Implied comparisons of Rumsfeld to, let's say, Heydrich or Himmler, would hold very little weight in any court, with the possible exception of the German judge that is living in a political dreamworld.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most governments in any country do as they please. If you know of any specific and verifiable exceptions, please let me know.MetalPlatypus wrote:Of course it won´t, because it is itself a separated superpower that is controlling the entire world and considers its right to do whatever it wants without caring about international agreements.
Snipers and roadside bombs by cowards that are afraid to fight out in the open do not constitute a victory for the insurgency. Still, if you prefer the al-Jazeera version of events about the capabilities of the US military, then that is your privilege.MetalPlatypus wrote:I am just happy to see their ass kicked big time in Irak daily.
Do you know what would happen if Bush gave the order to destroy al-Sadr and his "Mahdi army" by any means necessary? That's right, they would cease to exist, and I'm quite sure that the German judge would levy additional charges against the new incoming secretary of defense.
Moreover, if the US were truly fascist, we would have been adopting occupation and pacification tactics such as the ones that were used by the Wehrmacht and SS did in the Balkan campaign, as well as Russia, which included the Commissar Order, the Severity Order, as well as the Commando Order that was sent to Rommel in North Africa.
Please name any one major ground battle that US troops have lost in Iraq, with extreme numbers of casualties, and then I'll be convinced of your argument. Has our armored forces or air power been wiped out? What about the airborne? Special forces?
Or even the standard infantry, or the Marines? The Navy? The Airforce?
Does the insurgency actually have air or naval supremacy? Have they destroyed (or even damaged) any of the navy's capital ships in the region? How many B-1, B-2, or B-52's have been shot down?
Have they disrupted our supply lines to where the troops are starving or are out of ammunition? Where is the Stalingrad-like "der Kessel" that has all of our troops cut off, and waiting for certain annhiliation? Where are the big bags of POW's- and I don't mean one or two here and there- but where are the photos of hundreds or thousands of US troops being marched down the road at gunpoint to a POW cage in the rear areas of Sadr City?
If the President were truly a despot, he would have ordered massive bombing campaigns similar to the Berlin and Dresden bombing campaigns or Nixon's Operating Rolling Thunder (over Hanoi), which brought the NVA to the negotiation tables in Paris.
We've lost about 2,800 troops in nearly four years of operations in Iraq- and, we lost nearly 6,000 in one day at Omaha beach alone (the 29th Infantry was slaughtered there), and not to mention tens of thousands of killed in action, in one month, in the Ardennes.
My girlfriend's cousin just got back from a tour of duty (he is a combat veteran that was in Fallujah, no less), and has indicated that he would have no problem going back for a second tour.
As if you give a rip about what happens to those kids that are over there? And for what, you ask? Thousands and thousands of al-Qaeda operatives have been utterly destroyed, and many more will also be either captured or, if they prefer, killed.MetalPlatypus wrote:They are paying a high price for that oil they are pumping and from those rebuilding contracts. Are American people really that stupid that they let their kids to go to die to fucking Irak? For what?
These people are doing their duty, carrying out their orders, and all of them are volunteers. These people actually do care about what happens in Iraq, and to its people, much more so than others that sit back, criticize, and do little else other than that.
Iraq's democracy may not be perfect, but I can say that if Syria and Iran wish to continue to with their contributions that are currently destabilizing the country, then they may get what they are wishing for-
an expansion of the war to their own neighborhoods.
MetalPlatypus wrote:Not to mention George Bush, whose fascist regime is spreading to the world like Adolf Hitler´s, but in a secretive, more clever way.Just see the amount of military bases USA has over the world and where and be surprised. And Rumsfeld will be brought to the court, if USA respects the international community. Of course it won´t, because it is itself a separated superpower that is controlling the entire world and considers its right to do whatever it wants without caring about international agreements. I am just happy to see their ass kicked big time in Irak daily. They are paying a high price for that oil they are pumping and from those rebuilding contracts. Are American people really that stupid that they let their kids to go to die to fucking Irak? For what?miditek wrote:Ammadaboutjihad's announcement sounds like it was written either by DNC resident propagandist Howard Dean, or my favorite drunk driver, Teddy Kennedy.browneyedgirl wrote:A news release from leader of Iran.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15947213
I guess we will know later today what he had to say entirely.
This guy is not even in the same league as his hero, Dr. Goebbels.
Man, Ouch! You must read those conspiracy theory websites like mad, don't you? Because thats where lots of that propaganda you mentioned is talked about. I hope you don't read those sites much because they are not to be taken seriously. Some stuff they espouse is actually laughable. However, scapegoating Jews is their main obsession&its disgusting. I mean, if they have a hangnail, some way Israel or the Jews caused it. Or, Bush. 
No president can do that---its not possible.
Just because some people in USA criticize a country, its policies, or point out its shortcomings(ALL countries have them) does not mean someone hates a country or the rest of the world.