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True Religion
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Alienred
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Joined: 19 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: True Religion Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Just want to share some words of wisdom and an interesting point of view from Osho:

Quote:
One of the most important things to be understood about man (i.e., human beings) is that man is asleep. Even while he thinks he is awake, he is not. His wakefulness is very fragile; his wakefulness is so tiny it doesn't matter at all. His wakefulness is only a beautiful name but utterly empty.

You sleep in the night, you sleep in the day - from birth to death you go on changing your patterns of slep, but you never really awaken. Just by opening the eyes don't befool yourself that you are awake. Unless the inner eyes open - unless your inside becomes full of light, unless you can see yourself, who you are - don't think that you are awake. That is the greatest illusion man lives in. And once you accept that you are already awake, then there is no question of making any effort to be awake.
The first thing to sink deep in your heart is that you are asleep, utterly asleep. You are dreaming, day in, day out. You are dreaming sometimes with open eyes and sometimes with closed eyes, but you are dreaming - you are a dream. You are not yet a reality.


Of course in a dream whatsoever you do is meaningless. Whatsoever you think is pointless, whatsoever you project remains part of your dreams and never allows you to see that which is. Hence all the buddhas have insisted on only one thing: Awaken! Continuously, for centuries, their whole teaching can be contained in a single phrase: Be awake. And they have been devising methods, strategies; they have been creating contexts and spaces and energy fields in which you can be shocked into awareness.

Yes, unless you are shocked, shaken to your very foundations, you will not awaken. The sleep has been so long that it has reached to the very core of your being; you are soaked in it. Each cell of your body and each fiber of your mind has become full of sleep. It is not a small phenomenon. Hence great effort is needed to be alert, to be attentive, to be watchful, to become a witness.

If all the buddhas of the world agree on any one single theme, this is it - that man as he is, is asleep, and man as he should be, should be awake. Wakefulness is the goal and wakefulness is the taste of all their teachings. Zarathustra, Lao Tzu, Jesus, Buddha, Bahauddin, Kabir, Nanak - all the awakened ones have been teaching one single theme...in different languages, in different metaphors, but their song is the same. Just as the sea tastes of salt - whether the sea is tasted from the north or from the east or from the west, the sea always tastes of salt - the taste of buddhahood is wakefulness.

But you will not make any effort if you go on believing that you are already awake. Then there is no question of makng any effort - why bother?
And you have created religions, gods, prayers, rituals, out of your dreams - your gods are as much part of your dreams as anythng else. Your politics is part of your dreams, your religions are part of your dreams, your poetry, your painting, your art - whatsoever you do, because you are asleep, you do things according to your own state of mind.
Your gods cannot be different from you. Who will create them? Who will give them shape and color and form? You create them, you scupt them; they have eyes like you, noses like you - and minds like you! The Old Testament God says, "I am a very jealous God!" Now who has created this God who is jealous? God cannot be jealous, and if God is jealous, then what is wrong in being jealous? If even God is jealous, why should you be thought to be doing something wrong when you are jealous? Jealousy is divine!

The Old Testament God says, "I am a very angry God! If you don't follow my commandments, I will destroy you. You will be thrown into hellfire for eternity. And because I am very jealous, don't worship anybody else. I cannot tolerate it." Who created such a God? It must be out of our own jealousy, out of our own anger, that you have created this image. It is your projection, it is your shadow. It echoes you and nobody else. And the same is the case with all gods of all religions.
It is because of this that Buddha never talked about God. He said, "What is the point of talking about God to people who are asleep? They will listen in their sleep. They will dream about whatsoever is said to them, and they will create their own gods - which will be utterly false, utterly impotent, utterly meaningless. It is better not to have such gods."

That's why Buddha is not interested in talking about gods. His whole interest is in waking you up.






Osho on religion:

Religion is not what people understand it to be. It is not Chrisitianity, it is not Hinduism, it is not Mohammedanism. The so called religion is a dead rock.

I teach you not religion, but religiousness -- a flowing river, continuously changing its course, but ultimately reaching the ocean.

A rock may be very ancient, far more experienced, far older than any Rigveda , but rock is a rock, and it is dead. It does not move with the seasons, it does not move with existence; it is simply lying there. And have you seen any rock with any song, with any dance?

To me religion is a quality, not an organisation.
All the religions which exist in the world -- and they are not a small number, there are three hundred religions in the world -- are dead rocks. They don't flow, they don't change, they don't move with the times. And anything that is dead is not going to help you -- unless you want to make a grave, and then perhaps the rock may be helpful.

All the so-called religions have been making graves for you, destroying your life, your love, your joy, and filling your heads with fantasies, illusions, hallucinations about God, about heaven and hell, about reincarnation, and all kinds of crap.

God is not a person but an experience: the experience of bliss, of joy, of benediction. The idea of god as a person has been a calamity, a curse. The very idea has created the temples, the mosques, the churches and it has led man astray from true religion.

True religion can only be one -- and there are three hundred religions on the earth. True religion cannot
have any adjective to it -- Christian, Hindu, Mohammedan. Science is neither Christian nor Hindu nor
Mohammedan, how can religion be Hindu, Christian, Mohammedan? Science investigates the objective
reality, religion investigates the subjective reality.

Both are searching for the real, one in the external world, the other in the internal. If science cannot be Hindu or Mohammedan or Christian, then how can religion be? Religion is nothing but a quality -- religiousness.

I teach a religionless religiousness. And the whole thing depends on your dropping the idea of god as a
person. Otherwise if god is a person then you start worshipping, praying; then you start persuading him to do some favours for you and you go in an absolutely wrong direction. No worship is meaningful, no prayer is meaningful because there is nobody as a person to answer you.

God is an inner experience. When you have reached your innermost core, to the very roots of your
being, a great explosion of bliss happens. It is like an atomic explosion.

Your consciousness explodes and you are showered, bathed in a totally new kind of splendour of which you have never dreamt before. That experience is god. It is not that you encounter somebody who is a god, you experience something inside you which is divine, godly.

All people who are creative are close to religion. Religion is the greatest creativity because it is an effort to give birth to yourself, to become a father and mother to yourself, to be born again, to be reborn through meditation, through awareness. Poetry is good, painting is good — but when you give birth to your own consciousness, there is no comparison. Then you have given birth to the ultimate poetry, the ultimate music, the ultimate dance. This is the dimension of creativity. On the rung of creativity, religion is the last. It is the greatest art, the ultimate art — that’s why I call it ‘the ultimate alchemy’.

What type of foolishness has settled in the human heart? When the flower is there, you avoid; and when only the emptiness is left, then you worship. You are afraid of real religion. That’s why you become a Hindu, a Mohammedan, a Christian. This is a trick of the mind, a deception. This is a way to avoid religion, because religion will transform you. Religion will destroy you as you are, and religion will give a new birth to you. Something unknown will come into existence through religion and you are afraid of that — of dying. of being reborn. So you belong to old traditions.
What to renounce? For what reason should you fast? Celebrate and dance! A real religion is celebration; a false religion is renunciation.
A religion is alive in the heart, it has nothing to do with temples and churches. If you are moved, if a rhythm arises in you, if you start dancing seeing Krishna or his statue, suddenly the flute on his lips is no longer just a symbol to you, it has become a real dance. You can listen to his tune, you can hear his tune.

Real religion consists of becoming utterly silent, unconditioned, unhypnotized. It is going beyond mind, beyond ideology; it is going beyond scripture and beyond knowledge. It is simply falling into your own interiority, becoming utterly silent, not knowing a thing, and functioning from that state of not knowing, from that innocence. When you function out of innocence, your actions have a beauty of their own.

In the West theology has overpowered religion. When theology overpowers religion, then religion is nothing but philosophy. And the philosophy is also not very philosophic — because philosophy can exist only through doubt, and theology bases itself on faith. So it is impotent philosophy, not even philosophy in the real sense. Religion is not based on belief or faith: religion is based on awe, religion is based on wonder.

Religion is based on the mysterious that is your surround. To feel it, to be aware of it, to see it, open your eyes and drop the dust of the ages. Clean your mirror! and see what beauty surrounds you, what tremendous grandeur goes on knocking at your doors. Why are you sitting with closed eyes? Why are you sitting with such long faces? Why can’t you dance? and why can’t you laugh?

The very courageous, the really strong people, the really adventurous, become attracted towards paths of self-realization or paths of self-transformation. Religion is the greatest adventure there is. Going to Everest is nothing, going to the moon also is nothing; going to the highest peak of your being is the real task. Because in the first place, we are not even aware that the peak exists. In the first place, we are so unconscious that we don’t know what we are doing. We don’t know what we are doing with our lives.

"I was inspired by Osho's wisdom when I wrote the song 'How fragile we all are'; Reading his books gave me hope for humanity. It is a must for everybody to have a look into his words ....."

- Sting, Singer and Performer

http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=EmDQFWNjHpA

Perhaps this final act was meant
To clinch a lifetime's argument
That nothing comes from violence and nothing ever could
For all those born beneath an angry star
Lest we forget how fragile we are

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NeonVomit
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

As a devout Pastafarian (all glory to the Flying Spaghetti Monster) I cannot agree with any of that.

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Alienred
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Joined: 19 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

NeonVomit wrote:
As a devout Pastafarian (all glory to the Flying Spaghetti Monster) I cannot agree with any of that.

)))))



OH No!!! That Flying Spaghetti Monster((( NOT AGAIN!

Always the same story.


I'll try another one:

Beloved Ones,
The mind of man, his brain, has become a sick wound.
It is no longer a healthy center, it has turned into an unhealthy ulcer.

That is why all our attention is concentrated on it.
Perhaps you may not have thought about the fact that when a part of the body becomes sick, all one's attention moves towards it.

One only becomes aware of the leg if there is pain in the leg; if there is no pain then one is not aware of the leg at all. If there is a wound in the hand then one becomes aware of the hand; if there is no wound then one does not know about the hand at all.

Our brain has certainly become sick in one way or the other, because for twenty-four hours we are aware only of it and nothing else.

The healthier a body is, the less it will be felt.
One feels only that part which has become unhealthy.
The only part of the body which we feel now is the brain.

Our consciousness only moves around it -- only knows it, only recognizes it.
A sick wound has appeared there.

Without getting free of this wound, without becoming free of this very tense and very restless state of mind, no person can move towards his center of life.
So today we will discuss this state of the brain and how to change it.

The first thing is that we should clearly understand the state of the brain.

If you sit alone for ten minutes and sincerely write down on a piece of paper whatever thoughts are going through your mind, you will be unwilling to show that paper to even your dearest friend -- because you will find thoughts which are so mad that neither yourself nor anyone else could have expected them from you.

You will find such irrelevant, futile and contradictory thoughts that you will think you have gone mad.

If you sincerely write down whatever comes into your mind for ten minutes you will be very surprised at what is happening there.
You will wonder if you are sane or crazy.


We never look into our mind even for ten minutes to see what is going on there -- or maybe it is that we do not look into it because deep down we already know what is happening there.

Perhaps we are afraid.
That is why people are afraid of being alone and are looking for company twenty-four hours of the day -- wanting to meet friends or go to a party, or a disco, or a club or something. And if the person cannot find anybody then he will read a newspaper or listen to the radio, surf the internet or watch TV.
Nobody wants to be alone because the moment you are alone you start finding out about your real state.

When the other is present, we are involved in relating to him and we are not aware about ourself.
The search for the other is nothing but the search for an opportunity to escape from oneself.

The basic reason that we become interested in other people is that we are afraid of ourselves, and we know very well that if we know ourselves completely, we will find that we are absolutely mad.

To escape from this state man searches for company, searches for a companion, searches for a friend, searches for society, for sports or techno & rave or Lion clubs, searches for a crowd.
Osho

Osho on Truth
Truth is all around, but your interpretations are YOUR interpretations. God is speaking all the time, but you hear not, or even if you hear, you hear something else. You hear according to you, your mind comes in, and hence you go on missing. Unless the mind is dropped you will not be able to know what truth is. Truth cannot be discovered by mind; mind is the barrier. It is because of the mind that you have not been able to discover it

It is not a question of how to train the mind to know the truth. The more the mind is trained and becomes capable, the less is the possibility to know the truth. The more skilled a mind, the farther away you are from the truth.


Mind is the barrier. No-mind is the door. How to attain to no-mind? The only way — the ONLY way — is to be in the present. The only way is not to think of the past, not to think of the future. And you cannot think of the present. That is the whole secret: you cannot think of the present; there is not space enough for thought to move. Thought needs room to move. Can you think anything right now? If you
think it, either it will be of the past or of the future.

This moment of silence. If you think, “Yes, this is a moment of silence,” it is already past. Or you say, “How beautiful!” It is already past. Utter a word “beautiful,” and it is already past. You cannot think. Thinking stops when you are in the present. So that is the only key, and it is a master key; it unlocks all the doors of being. Immediacy, that is the whole insistence of Zen.



Truth is the most obvious and the most simple thing in existence. This has created tremendous difficulty – the mind is not interested in the obvious. The mind is not excited by the simple, because deep down mind is nothing but your ego, and the nourishment of the ego comes from the challenge of the far away. The more arduous, the more torturous, the more difficult an achievement is, the more the mind becomes fascinated.

It is ready to go to the farthest star, not even bothering what it is going to get there; that is irrelevant.

I remember a remark by Edmund Hillary, who was the first man to climb Everest, the highest mountain in the Himalayas. When he came down, the whole world’s media was interested to know what his experience was, what he had gained. Before him, for almost a hundred years, hundreds of mountaineers had destroyed their lives in the same effort of achieving Everest.

Edmund Hillary could not answer. For a moment there was silence, and then he said, ”Just because it is there, a challenge to humanity – that was enough for me to risk my life. I have not gained anything, I have not experienced anything.

The truth is, whenever I think of Edmund Hillary standing on the Everest, alone, he looks to me to be embarrassed, utterly idiotic. And in fact he did not stay there longer than two minutes. For those two minutes he risked his life.

This will give you an insight into the human mind and its workings. That which is available cannot be made an achievement. And that which is not available, the farther away it is, the more nourishment there is to the ego. The obvious, that which you already have, has no interest at all for the mind.

That’s why millions of people have lived on the earth and missed their own being. They traveled far and wide, world travelers – Marco Polo, Columbus – they tried to conquer the whole world, like Alexander the Great. But they forgot one thing: they have not even known themselves; the question of conquering does not arise.

truth is not an experience of the mind; hence no logic can prove it or disprove it. No argument can convince you about it or unconvince you about it.

Truth is an experience beyond mind, so there is no objective criterion possible. That’s why science never talks about it, because science can only talk about things which can be objectively proved.
Truth is a subjective experience, just like love.

What is the criterion of love? Can you prove when you fall in love? Can you prove that really you have fallen in love? Is there a way to prove it? Is there any argument, any logic that will support you — any eyewitnesses?

All that you can say is, “I know for certain that my heart is beating differently” — but that is something inner to you. You can say, “I am feeling so blissful,” but that is something subjective. You cannot bring some part of your blissfulness and show it to people as a criterion.


Love, or truth, or bliss, or God — they don’t have any criterion; they are experiences of the inner. Criteria are always of the outer. Don’t impose outer criteria for the inner — that is the fallacy of the atheist.

Why does the atheist deny the existence of God, the existence of soul, the existence of truth, the existence of a life beyond life? For the simple reason that there is no criterion, and no proof, and no evidence.

No atheist has ever been defeated by any theist in argumentation — still the atheist is wrong. He is wrong because he is asking for an objective criterion for a subjective experience.
It is just like somebody asks you — you have been listening to classical music, and somebody asks — “What was the taste of it?” or “What was the color of it?” or “How did it feel when you touched it?”
You will say, “Are you mad?” Music is not an experience of the eyes, it is not an experience of the nose; music has no smell. It is not an experience of the tongue; it has no taste. It is not something tangible that you can touch. It is an experience of the ears — and for an experience of the ears, eyes cannot give any proof.

Neither is the opposite possible. For an experience of the eyes — for example, light or colors — ears cannot give any proof. And if you want proofs that are understandable by the ears, then there is no light; you have to deny it. Then there are no colors, no rainbows. You have to deny everything that belongs to the world of eyes, and almost eighty percent of your experience belongs to the eyes.

Eighty percent of your life will have to be denied if you insist for some criterion that belongs, not to the eyes, but to the ears, nose, mouth, hands ….
The same is the situation about truth. Truth is the space within you when there is no thought, no feeling, no emotion — when there is utter silence and a light which is eternal, which has no fuel … because all fuels are bound to be exhausted sooner or later.

At the innermost core of your being there is a light which is inexhaustible, which has always been there and will always be there, which is beyond time and beyond space … a deep silence. Not the silence of the graveyard — not a negative silence, not a silence which means absence of noise — but a silence which means a positive, affirmative presence of peace, of coolness, of a soundless music … a light that is eternal and a life that is eternal.

When you find these things in the innermost center of your being … the whole experience of bliss, joy, the feeling of coming home, of finding yourself at last — all this is contained in the simple word `truth’. You can experience it, but you cannot find any explanation for it. You can find a way to it, you can find a method to reach it, but nobody can tell you beforehand what it is.

Gautam Buddha used to say, “Buddhas only show the way; nobody can walk the way for you. You will have to walk and you will have to find … and those who have found it have all become dumb.” It is almost like giving a dumb man delicious sweets …. It is not that he does not know the taste; he knows. He rejoices, but if you want to ask how it tastes, of course he cannot say anything; he is dumb.

All those who have known truth become dumb about truth. They can tell you how to reach it; they can show you the way. They can take you to the window, to the door, but you have to find it within yourself, following the path alone … the ultimate experience.

Only one thing can be said from the outside:
The man of truth has no fear of death.
The man of truth is never miserable.
The man of truth is never a coward.
The man of truth is constantly in a state of celebration;

the man of truth is an eternal dance.
These are the things which can be seen from the outside, but these are just faraway echoes; these are not the truth. These are the faraway echoes in the individuality of the person who has found the
truth.

These are the reflections — reflections of the stars in the lake. But don’t jump into the lake to find the stars! You will not find anything there. Stars are far away; these are only reflections.
In the personality, in the presence, in the gestures, in the eyes of the man of truth you will find something, if you are not completely closed, completely prejudiced, if you have not already decided for or against.

If you are open and vulnerable you will recognize that there is something charismatic, something magnetic, something that invites you to come in … something that invites you to be closer, something that creates suddenly a new dimension of search for you; something that starts silent bells suddenly ringing in your heart of which you have never been aware.

He has touched your heart. His very presence is creative, his very presence is converting, his very presence is the only criterion — but it is not logic, it is a love affair. Remember: I repeat again, truth is not a question of logic, it is a search of a loving heart.


Sorry for long posts, but we are talking about serious things)))

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browneyedgirl
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I think religion, and having faith in some type of belief is important, even if that belief is agnostic, or atheist. However, what pisses me off is when a person goes through a bad personal crisis and someone says, "It's God's will." Makes me want to bust that person in the mouth. If you want to turn someone away from religion just tell them their pain and hurt is God's will.

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ÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

NeonVomit wrote:
As a devout Pastafarian (all glory to the Flying Spaghetti Monster) I cannot agree with any of that.


Oh Neon! Smile We have the same Pastafarian-faith and I also worship our Flying Spagetti Monster.

I am a member of the Stockholm-Congregation and our shep-herd is Gary Tortiglioni. Have you heard of him? Smile

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Alienred
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

browneyedgirl wrote:
I think religion, and having faith in some type of belief is important, even if that belief is agnostic, or atheist.


Let me add another interesting quote: (Could not put it better myself Embarassed )


Oshol - Faith is like eyes: you see yourself. Belief is like a lantern in a blind man's hand: he cannot see, he cannot even use the lighted lantern. Even that lighted lantern will be just a burden to him, to be carried. And if the light goes off he will never become aware of it. Belief is just believing what others say. It is not faith; faith is knowing. Faith is existential, belief is intellectual.

Buddha says something, or I say something; you listen to me, it appeals to your intellect. It seems to be convincing to your reason and you start believing in it. Then it will be a lantern in a blind man's hand. But if you listen to me, something appeals to you and you don't stay with the intellectual understanding but you try to make that your own experience..

If I talk about love and Iistening to me you don't cling to my words but you move into love, you take the risk of love, you move into the danger of love, then you will come to an understanding which will be like eyes. If you just listen to me, it is very cheap. Just listening to me you can collect information and you can say, "Yes, I know much about love." Your knowing will be a deception.

I have heard.... Mulla Nasrudin and his wife went to Israel for their holidays and visited a nightclub in Tel Aviv. A comedian was on the bill who did his whole act in Hebrew. Nasrudin's wife sat through the comic's act in silence, but Nasrudin roared with laughter at the end of each joke.

"I did not know you understood Hebrew," she said to the Mulla when the comedian had concluded his act.
"I don't," replied Nasrudin.
"Well, how come you laughed so much at his jokes?"
"Oh," said Nasrudin, "I trusted him."

You can laugh at a joke without understanding it, but what sort of laughter will that be? It will not arise in you; it will be just a painted laughter. It will be just like an exercise of tne lips and the face. It will not have any center in your being. It will not be coming from anywhere -- because you can't understand the joke, you can't understand the language -- how can you laugh? But Mulla says, "I just trusted him. He MUST be saying something beautiful; others are laughing."

Buddha must be saying something beautiful -- so many people believe in him, so you believe. But you have not understood the joke; the laughter is not yours. It will tire you, it will not refresh you. When laughter happens to you it spreads from your very being, from your innermost core of being to the surface. Your whole body ripples with it, pulsates, throbs. It gives you a sort of bath; you are new after it. But if you simply trust, believe, that is not going to help.

Many people have just been deceived by their beliefs about many beautiful things. You think you believe in God, you think you believe in soul, you think you believe in this and that, and you have not known anything by your own experience. Then it is better not to believe -- because if you don't believe, if you know that you don't know, there is a possibility that you may seek and search. Your belief will not allow you even to seek and search because you already think you know.

Belief is dangerous. Even to be a sceptic, to be an agnostic, is better. To be true when you don't know is better because this honesty of accepting that you don't know will help. This honesty will grow. One day or other you will start seeking, because nobody can remain in deep ignorance for long. Everybody wants to KNOW.

To know is such an intrinsic desire in man that you cannot avoid it if you are true. Please drop your beliefs so your mind is not clouded with rotten furniture, and you can see what you know and what you don't know.

To know exactly what one knows and what one does not know is the basic step towards knowledge. To be absolutely clear-cut that this is all that you know and this is all that you don't know. You cannot remain in this state. You will start moving towards the unknown, because it is human to seek to know.

Every child is born with infinite curiosity; that's why children bore you to death with their questions. They go on asking and asking. They don't bother whether you are interested in answering them or not; they go on asking.

You want to keep them quiet but they go on bubbling again and again with new questions. What is happening? From where do so many questions come? a deep desire to know. But this desire is crippled by your beliefs. Beliefs give you an appearance as if you know. That 'as if' is very costly.


"Theists, atheists, both are victims. The really religious person has nothing to do with The Bible or the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita. The really religious person has a deep communion with existence. He can say yes to a roseflower, he can say yes to the stars, he can say yes to people, he can say yes to his own being, to his own desires. He can say yes to whatsoever life brings to him; he is a yea-sayer."

The problem with modern man is that we have forgotten the language of silence, we have forgotten the way of the heart. We have completely forgotten that there is a life which can be lived through the heart. We are much too hung up in the head, and because we are so much in the head we cannot make any sense out of love. It becomes more and more problematic."

"Looking at a sunset, just for a second you forget your separateness: you are the sunset. That is the moment when you feel the beauty of it. But the moment you say that it is a beautiful sunset, you are no longer feeling it; you have come back to your separate, enclosed entity of the ego. Now the mind is speaking. And this is one of the mysteries, that the mind can speak, and knows nothing; and the heart knows everything, and cannot speak. Perhaps to know too much makes it difficult to speak; the mind knows so little, it is possible for it to speak."

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Alienred
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

NeonVomit wrote:
As a devout Pastafarian (all glory to the Flying Spaghetti Monster) I cannot agree with any of that.


Quote:
Oh Neon! Smile We have the same Pastafarian-faith and I also worship our Flying Spagetti Monster.

I am a member of the Stockholm-Congregation and our shep-herd is Gary Tortiglioni. Have you heard of him? Smile


We all worship something Very Happy

Osho:
So rather than asking me do I believe in a creator, you should ask me what is my substitute for God, the creator. My substitute is the existential energy of creativity.

And to me, to be creative is the most important religious quality.

If you create a song, if you create music, if you create a garden, you are being religious.

Going to the church is foolish, but creating a garden is tremendously religious. We don’t pray in any other way, we pray only through creating something. To me, creativity is God. But it will be better if you allow me to change the word god into godliness, because

I don’t want to be misunderstood. There is no person like God, but there is tremendous energy — exploding, unending, expanding. This expanding, unending, exploding energy, this creativity, is divine.

I know it; I don’t believe in it.
I have tasted it; I don’t believe in it.
I have touched it, I have breathed it.
I have known it in the deepest core of my being.

And it is as much in you as it is in me. Just a look inwards, just a little one hundred and eighty degree turn, and you become aware of a truth. Then you don’t ask for beliefs. Only blind people believe in light. Those who have eyes… they don’t believe in light; they simply see it.”


all in a flash of light

the truth is deep, the grave is shallow, a
deeper mystery found, but there's no
one to follow: Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

in the mirror, seeing clearer, I see my
soul

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NeonVomit
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

ÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖÖ wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:
As a devout Pastafarian (all glory to the Flying Spaghetti Monster) I cannot agree with any of that.


Oh Neon! Smile We have the same Pastafarian-faith and I also worship our Flying Spagetti Monster.

I am a member of the Stockholm-Congregation and our shep-herd is Gary Tortiglioni. Have you heard of him? Smile


No, I just get drunk, that's my way of being touched by his noodly appendage.

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Alienred
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Joined: 19 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

NeonVomit wrote:


No, I just get drunk, that's my way of being touched by his noodly appendage.


And how about the wisdom of Jiddu Krishnamurti?

Quote:
You are always a guest on this earth and have the austerity of a guest. Austerity is far deeper than owning only a few things. The very word austerity has been spoilt by the monks, by the sannyasis, by the hermits. Sitting on that high hill alone in the solitude of many things, many rocks and little animals and ants, that word had no meaning. Over the hills in the far distance was the wide, shining, sparkling sea. We have broken up the earth as yours and mine - your nation, my nation, your flag and his flag, this particular religion and the religion of the distant man.

The world, the earth, is divided, broken up. And for it we fight and wrangle, and the politicians exult in their power to maintain this division, never looking at the world as a whole. They haven't got the global mind. They never feel nor ever perceive the immense possibility of having no nationality, no division, they can never perceive the ugliness of their power, their position and their sense of importance.

They are like you or another, only they occupy the seat of power with their petty little desires and ambitions, and so maintain apparently, as long as man has been on this earth, the tribal attitude towards life. They don't have a mind that is not committed to any issue, to any ideals, ideologies - a mind that steps beyond the division of race, culture, that the religions man has invented.

Governments must exist as long as man is not a light to himself, as long as he does not live his daily life with order, care, diligently working, watching, learning. He would rather be told what to do. He has been told what to do by the ancients, by the priests, by the gurus, and he accepts their orders, their peculiar destructive disciplines as though they were gods on this earth, as though they knew all the implications of this extraordinarily complex life



Questioner: Is not the worship of God true religion?



Jiddu Krishnamurti : First of all, let us find out what is not religion. Isn't that the right approach? If we can understand what is not religion, then perhaps we shall begin to perceive something else. It is like cleaning a dirty window - one begins to see through it very clearly.

So let us see if we can understand and sweep out of our minds that which is not religion; don't let us say, ''I will think about it'' and just play around with words. Perhaps you can do it, but most of the older people are already caught; they are comfortably established in that which is not religion and they do not want to be disturbed.














So, what is not religion? Have you ever thought about it? You have been told over and over again what religion is supposed to be - belief in God and a dozen other things - but nobody has asked you to find out what is not religion; and now you and I are going to find out for ourselves.

In listening to me, or to anyone else, do not merely accept what is said, but listen to discern the truth of the matter. If once you perceive for yourself what is not religion, then throughout your life no priest or book can deceive you, no sense of fear will create an illusion which you may believe and follow.

To find out what is not religion you have to begin on the everyday level, and then you can climb. To go far you must begin near, and the nearest step is the most important one.

So what is not religion? Are ceremonies religion? Doing puja over and over again - is that religion?

True education is to learn how to think, not what to think. If you know how to think, if you really have that capacity, then you are a free human being - free of dogmas, superstitions ceremonies - and therefore you can find out what religion is.


Ceremonies are obviously not religion, because in performing ceremonies you are merely repeating a formula which has been handed down to you.

You may find a certain pleasure in performing ceremonies, just as others do in smoking or drinking; but is that religion? In performing ceremonies you are doing something about which you know nothing. Your father and your grandfather do it, therefore you do it, and if you don't they will scold you. That is not religion, is it?



And what is in a temple? A graven image fashioned by a human being according to his own imagination. The image may be a symbol, but it is still only an image, it is not the real thing.

A symbol, a word, is not the thing it represents. The word 'door' is not the door, is it? The word is not the thing. We go to the temple to worship - what? An image which is supposed to be a symbol; but the symbol is not the real thing. So why go to it? These are facts;

I am not condemning; and, since they are facts, why bother about who goes to the temple, whether it be the touchable or the untouchable, the Brahman or the non-Brahman? Who cares? You see, the older people have made the symbol into a religion for which they are willing to quarrel, fight, slaughter; but God is not there. God is never in a symbol. So the worship of a symbol or of an image is not religion.

And is belief religion? This is more complex. We began near, and now we are going a little bit farther. Is belief religion? The Christians believe in one way, the Hindus in another, the Moslems in another, the Buddhists in still another, and they all consider themselves very religious people; they all have their temples, gods, symbols, beliefs. And is that religion?

Is it religion when you believe in God, in Rama, Sita, Ishwara, and all that kind of thing? How do you get such a belief? You believe because your father and your grandfather believe; or having read what some teacher like Shankara or Buddha is supposed to have said, you believe it and say it is true. Most of you just believe what the Gita says, therefore you don't examine it clearly and simply as you would any other book; you don't try to find out what is true.

We have seen that ceremonies are not religion that going to a temple is not religion, and that belief is not religion. Belief divides people. The Christians have beliefs and so are divided both from those of other beliefs and among themselves; the Hindus are everlastingly full of enmity because they believe themselves to be Brahmans or non-Brahmans, this or that. So belief brings enmity, division, destruction, and that is obviously not religion.

Then what is religion? If you have wiped the window clean - which means that you have actually stopped performing ceremonies, given up all beliefs, ceased to follow any leader or guru - then your mind, like the window, is clean, polished, and you can see out of it very clearly.

When the mind is swept clean of image of ritual, of belief, of symbol, of all words, mantrams and repetitions, and of all fear, then what you see will be the real, the timeless, the everlasting, which may be called God;

but this requires enormous insight, understanding, patience, and it is only for those who really inquire into what is religion and pursue it day after day to the end. Only such people will know what is true religion.

The rest are merely mouthing words, and all their ornaments and bodily decorations, their pujas and ringing of bells - all that is just superstition without any significance. It is only when the mind is in revolt against all so-called religion that it finds the real.


Question: Belief in God has been a powerful incentive to better liv1ng. Why do you deny God? Why do you not try to revive man's faith in the idea of God?

Jiddu Krishnamurti : Let us look at the problem widely and intelligently. I am not denying God - it would be foolish to do so. Only the man who does not know reality indulges in meaningless words. The man who says he knows, does not know; the man who is experiencing reality from moment to moment has no means of communicating that reality.

Belief is a denial of truth, belief hinders truth; to believe in God is not to find God. Neither the believer nor the non-believer will find God; because reality is the unknown, and your belief or non-belief in the unknown is merely a self-projection and therefore not real. I know you believe and I know it has very little meaning in your life. There are many people who believe; millions believe in God and take consolation.

of all, why do you believe? You believe because it gives you satisfaction, consolation, hope, and you say it gives significance to life. Actually your belief has very little significance, because you believe and exploit, you believe and kill, you believe in a universal God and murder each other. The rich man also believes in God; he exploits ruthlessly, accumulates money, and then builds a temple or becomes a philanthropist.

The men who dropped the atomic bomb on Hirosh1ma said that God was with them; those who flew from England to destroy Germany said that God was their co-pilot. The dictators, the prime ministers, the generals, the presidents, all talk of God, they have immense faith in God.

Are they doing service, making a better life for man? The people who say they believe in God have destroyed half the world and the world is in complete misery. Through religious intolerance there are divisions of people as believers and non-believers, leading to religious wars. It indicates how extraordinarily politically-minded you are.

Is belief in God "a powerful incentive to better living"? Why do you want an incentive to better living? Surely, your incentive must be your own desire to live cleanly and simply, must it not? If you look to an incentive you are not interested in making life possible for all, you are merely interested in your incentive, which is different from mine - and we will quarrel over the incentive. If we live happily together not because we believe in God[/b]e things for all.

Through lack of intelligence we accept the idea of a super-intelligence which we call `God; but this `God', this super-intelligence, is not going to give us a better life. What leads to a better life is intelligence; and there cannot be intelligence if there is belief, if there are class divisions, if the means of production are in the hands of a few, if there are isolated nationalities and sovereign governments. All this obviously indicates lack of intelligence and it is the lack of intelligence that is preventing a better living, not non-belief in God.

You all believe in different ways, but your belief has no reality whatsoever. Reality is what you are, what you do, what you think, and your belief in God is merely an escape from your monotonous, stupid and cruel life.

Furthermore, belief invariably divides people: there is the Hindu, the Buddhist, the Christian, the communist, the socialist, the capitalist and so on. Belief, idea, divides; it never brings people together.

You may bring a few people together in a group but that group is opposed to another group. Ideas and beliefs are never unifying; on the contrary, they are separative, disintegrating and destructive.

Therefore your belief in God is really spreading misery in the world; though it may have brought you momentary consolation, in actuality it has brought you more misery and destruction in the form of wars, famines, class divisions and the ruthless action of separate individuals.

So your belief has no validity at all. If you really believed in God, if it were a real experience to you, then your face would have a smile; you would not be destroying human beings.

Now, what is reality, what is God? God is not the word, the word is not the thing. To know that which is immeasurable, which is not of time, the mind must be free of time, which means the mind must be free from all thought, from all ideas about God. What do you know about God or truth?, You do not really know anything about that reality.

All that you know are words, the experiences of others or some moments of rather vague experience of your own. Surely that is not God, that is not reality, that is not beyond the field of time.

To know that which is beyond time, the process of time must be understood, time being thought, the process of becoming, the accumulation of knowledge. That is the whole background of the mind; the mind itself is the background, both the conscious and the unconscious, the collective and the individual.


So the mind must be free of the known, which means the mind must be completely silent, not made silent.

The mind that achieves silence as a result, as the outcome of determined action, of practice, of discipline, is not a silent mind. The mind that is forced, controlled, shaped, put into a frame and kept quiet, is not a still mind.

You may succeed for a period of time in forcing the mind to be superficially silent, but such a mind is not a still mind. Stillness comes only when you understand the whole process of thought, because to understand the process is to end it and the ending of the process of thought is the beginning of silence.

Only when the mind is completely silent not only on the upper level but fundamentally, right through, on both the superficial and the deeper levels of consciousness - only then can the unknown come into being. The unknown is not something to be experienced by the mind; silence alone can be experienced, nothing but silence.

If the mind experiences anything but silence, it is merely projecting its own desires and such a mind is not silent; so long as the mind is not silent, so long as thought in any form, conscious or unconscious, is in movement, there can be no silence.

Silence is freedom from the past, from knowledge, from both conscious and unconscious memory; when the mind is completely silent, not in use, when there is the silence which is not a product of effort, then only does the timeless, the eternal come into being. That state is not a state of remembering - there is no entity that remembers, that experiences.

Therefore God or truth or what you will is a thing that comes into being from moment to moment, and it happens only in a state of freedom and spontaneity, not when the mind is disciplined according to a pattern.

God is not a thing of the mind, it does not come through self-projection, it comes only when there is virtue, which is freedom. Virtue is facing the fact of what is and the facing of the fact is a state of bliss. Only when the mind is blissful, quiet, without any movement of its own, without the projection of thought, conscious or unconscious - only then does the eternal come into being.

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NeonVomit
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:07 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

tl;dr.

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Alienred
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

NeonVomit wrote:
tl;dr.


I"ll try to make a short summary:

Osho on true happiness:

Happiness will depend on where you are in your consciousness. If you are asleep, then pleasure is happiness. Pleasure means sensation, trying to achieve something through the body which is not possible to achieve through the body, forcing the body to achieve something it is not capable of. People are trying, in every possible way, to achieve happiness through the body.

The body can give you only momentary pleasures, and each pleasure is balanced by pain in the same amount, in the same degree. Each pleasure is followed by its opposite because body exists in the world of duality, just as the day is followed by night and death is followed by life and life is followed by death. It is a vicious circle. Your pleasure will be followed by pain, your pain will be followed by pleasure.

But you will never be at ease. When you will be in a state of pleasure you will be afraid that you are going to lose it, and that fear will poison it. And when you will be lost in pain, of course, you will be in suffering, and you will try every possible effort to get out of it — just to fall again back into it. Buddha calls this the wheel of birth and death. We go on moving in this wheel, clinging to the wheel… and the wheel moves on.

Sometimes pleasure comes up and sometimes pain comes up, but we are crushed between these two rocks.
But the sleepy person knows nothing else. He knows only a few sensations of the body — food, sex. This is his world; he goes on moving between these two. These are the two ends of his body: food and sex. If he represses sex he becomes addicted to food: if he represses food he becomes addicted to sex. Energy goes on moving like a pendulum. And whatsoever you call pleasure is, at the most, just a relief of a tense state.

Sexual energy gathers, accumulates; you become tense and heavy and you want to release it.
The man who is asleep, his sexuality is nothing but a relief, like a good sneeze. It gives you nothing but a certain relief. A tension was there, now it is no more there; but it will accumulate again. Food gives you only a little taste on the tongue; it is not much to live for. But many people are living only to eat; there are very few people who eat to live.

It depends on people what can be called happiness. To the sleeping, pleasurable sensations are happiness. He lives from one pleasure to another pleasure. He is just rushing from one sensation to another sensation. He lives for small thrills. His life is very superficial; it has no depth, it has no quality. He lives in the world of quantity.

The difference between pleasure and THIS happiness is: it is not a relief, it is an enrichment. You become more full, you become a little overflowing. Listening to good music, something is triggered in your being, a harmony arises in you — you become musical.

Or dancing, suddenly you forget your body; your body becomes weightless. The grip of gravitation over you is lost. Suddenly you are in a different space: the ego is not so solid, the dancer melts and merges into the dance.

This is far higher, far deeper than the joy that you gain from food or sex. This has a depth. But this is also not the ultimate.

The ultimate happens only when you are fully awake, when you are a buddha, when all sleep is gone and all dreaming is gone, when your whole being is full of light, when there is no darkness within you.

All darkness has disappeared and with that darkness, the ego is gone. All tensions have disappeared, all anguish, all anxiety. You are in a state of total contentment. You live in the present; no past, no future anymore. You are utterly herenow.

This moment is all. Now is the only time and here is the only space. And then suddenly the whole sky drops into you. This is bliss. This is REAL happiness.



Jiddu Krishnamurti:
Thought is the response of what has been, the response of memory, is it not? Memory is tradition, experience, and its reaction to any experience is the outcome of the past.So, experience is always strengthening the past. The mind is the result of the past, of time; thought is the product of many yesterdays.

When thought seeks to change itself, trying to be or not to be this or that, it merely perpetuates itself under a different name. Being the product of the known, thought can never experience the unknown; being the result of time, it can never understand the timeless, the eternal. Thought must cease for the real to be.

The thought process brings about psychological progress in time, but is it real, as real as chronological time? And, can we use that time which is of the mind as a means of understanding the eternal, the timeless? Because, as I said, happiness is not of yesterday, happiness is not the product of time, happiness is always in the present, a timeless state.

I do not know if you have noticed that, when you have ecstasy, a creative joy, a series of bright clouds surrounded by dark clouds, in that moment there is no time: there is only the immediate present.

But the mind, coming in after the experiencing in the present, remembers and wishes to continue it, gathering more and more of itself, thereby creating time. So, time is created by 'the more', time is acquisition.

And, time is also detachment, which is still an acquisition of the mind; therefore, merely disciplining the mind in time, conditioning thought within the framework of time, which is memory, surely does not reveal that which is timeless.



Quote:
The clock ticks quietly away....

Throughout the world there are intelligent people everywhere, scientists, artists, poets, students, business people, doctors, lawyers; young people, old people; the famous, the unknown. Yes, these people all over the world must stare out of their windows at the birds in the trees going about their business so intelligently, so naturally – and wonder....

Literally, What on earth is going wrong?

Mothers gaze at their children and wonder wistfully what the future holds for those little ones. And in the background, newscast after newscast, in every language of the globe, says it again and again and again: War... famine... AIDS... chemical weapons... holes in the ozone layer... nuclear destruction... global warming... over-population... loss of tropical forests... loss of species... desertification... drugs... violence....

The tragic fact is that if those intelligent people don't stop this process, just who do they think will? The people in power today? The ones who currently benefit from today's insane world? -- people who, consciously or unconsciously, cling to the very values that have brought us into this mess in the first place?

It is now or never. It is time for the intelligentsia everywhere to raise its voice against this stupidity.

THERE IS EVERY possibility that there will be no future as far as life is concerned. We are coming closer to a dead-end street. It is sad to recognize the fact, but it is good to recognize it, because then there is the possibility of taking a different turn. As things are moving today, the logical conclusion is a global suicide.

And the most alarming factor is that the intelligentsia of the world, the scientists of the world, the philosophers of the world, are ignoring all these facts.

It should be a determination in every intelligent being that we are not going to allow any vested interest to destroy this planet. To save man is to save the greatest creation of the universe. It has taken four million years for this earth to create man. It is so precious. And the future is much more valuable.

If anything is to be done for the future, this is the time; otherwise the greatest evolution of consciousness in the universe will disappear. This will be not only a loss to the earth but to the whole universe.
Osho


If we are going to solve the problems of the future and dissolve them, then we have to look for their roots in the past. It is our whole past, in all its dimensions, that has given rise to this dangerous situation.

But nobody talks about this, because no previous generation has ever bothered about the future. For thousands of years man has been living the way he has wanted to, and he has simply forced the next generation to live in his way. This is no longer possible.

We have to take a quantum leap and teach the new generation not to live the way we have lived. Only then can the future be changed.

It seems man exists for all these kinds of things – democracy, socialism, fascism, communism, Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Mohammedanism.

The reality should be that everything exists for man; and if it goes against man, it should not exist at all.

The whole past of humanity is full of stupid ideologies for which people have been crusading, killing, murdering, burning living people. In the last three thousand years we have fought five thousand wars, as if life is all about fighting and not at all about being creative, not at all about enjoying the gifts of nature.

We have to drop all this insanity.

We cannot change anything in this world unless we cut these roots completely.

The most important need of humanity today is to be made aware that its past has betrayed it; that there is no point in continuing the past – it will be suicidal – and that a new humanity is absolutely and urgently needed.

The new man is the birth of an absolutely fresh man – unconditioned, without any nation, without any religion, without any discrimination between man and woman, black and white, East and West, or North and South.

The new man is going to be the very salt of the earth, concerned about how to increase the joys of life, the pleasures of life – more creativity, more beauty, more humanity, more compassion.

We can go through a total transformation: we can create innocent people, loving people, people who breathe in freedom, people who help each other to be free, who are nourishment for each other's creativity and for everybody to be dignified, to be respected.

The new man is the manifesto of a new humanity, one humanity.


It is a golden opportunity, because if the whole of humanity becomes aware of the roots of the problems, then the solutions are actually very simple.

THIS CRISIS IS good in a way because it is going to force people to choose: Do you want to die or do you want to live a new life?

I want it to be known to the whole world that if you are not ready to be one, be ready to disappear from this planet.

Osho (Almost 25 years ago)


We are the victims
We are falling prey
And now the world is turning grey

In your ship, your sinking fast
It's reaching critical mass

Gaze into the future
You and me

California will fall into the sea

Critical Mass
Critical Mass

Too many lives
Too many lies

Our destiny seems dark indeed
We'll turn into stone

Were paralyzed
The devil is laughing now
With pride
Yngwie Malmsteen Cool

Give us back the blue blue sky
Where the air is so fresh where eagles fly
What good is a planet that's slowly dying
What kind of life can it bring
Crying or Very sad

We pray but the walls is just too high
We pay with our lives to the dark tower in the sky

C'est la vie life in the shadows
C'est la vie there's no tomorrow
Yngwie Malmsteen


The earth is crumbling, the end is near
no one's listening, I'm filled with fear
hear the warning, in the prophet's word
day by day, we're destroying this world
no more water
no more blue skies
no one cares, no one tries
to save what we once had

blind leading the blind
no one sees the seventh sign
Yngwie Malmsteen

Children of the future
Watching empires fall
Madness the cup they drink from
Self destruction the toll
Ozzy Ozbourne

Great songs, arent they?

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browneyedgirl
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

@Alienred, were you a follower of Marshall Applewhite? Worried

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Alienred
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:00 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

browneyedgirl wrote:
@Alienred, were you a follower of Marshall Applewhite? Worried


No, I was never a follower of anyone. I never even heard that name before. It seems he was a really mad person. How can you even compare him to Osho? Osho's message is always life affirmative, but you have to see things as they really are. It is not just another economical crisis - there is much more to it.




In the News (from Daily Disruption): “Worldwide, 2011 was the coolest year on record since 2008, yet temperatures remained above the 30 year average, according to the 2011 State of the Climate report released online today by NOAA. The peer-reviewed report, issued in coordination with the American Meteorological Society (AMS), was compiled by 378 scientists from 48 countries around the world. It provides a detailed update on global climate indicators, notable weather events and other data collected by environmental monitoring stations and instruments on land, sea, ice and sky.

“‘2011 will be remembered as a year of extreme events, both in the United States and around the world,” said Deputy NOAA Administrator Kathryn D. Sullivan, Ph.D. ‘Every weather event that happens now takes place in the context of a changing global environment. This annual report provides scientists and citizens alike with an analysis of what has happened so we can all prepare for what is to come.’ …

“The report also provides details on a number of extreme events experienced all over the globe, including the worst flooding in Thailand in almost 70 years, drought and deadly tornado outbreaks in the United States, devastating flooding in Brazil and the worst summer heat wave in central and southern Europe since 2003.”

(Yuri V. Krupnov, Director of the Institute for Demography, Migration and Regional Development): “We have now entered into the epicenter of the global financial and economic crisis. Who will offer a different socio-economic model? Russia has every opportunity to demonstrate a practical proposal, i.e. to take the Far East and Eastern Siberia and show an alternative model of development in these areas. We are going into a tailspin of crisis. Everything will be greatly degraded and sink. Unless there is a world leader, who will offer a new development agenda, we can slide towards a global war.”


(Yuri Gavrilechko, Strategic Culture Foundation): “The fifth year of the global financial crisis reveals the inability of existing institutions to overcome the crisis on the basis of the dominant neo-liberal ideology. Capitalism, as it turned out, is also unable to cope with the problems, generated by it, as once feudalism or socialism of the Soviet kind. As a result, in the near future, we will be able to observe a combination of the old ideological concepts and possibly the birth of new forms and patterns of social organization.

“The failure of multiculturalism in Europe and the strengthening of the crisis have already led to an increase in support for nationalism and socialism. … Because as opposed to socialism, professing internationalism and brotherhood of nations, Fascism and National Socialism was based on the idea of exclusive supremacy of one race over another; it is more logical that they would lay the basis for a pan-European identity. …

“The peculiarity of pan-European fascism might be a symbiosis with the leftists and even the radical left-wing tendencies. … The situation in Germany in 1933 was largely similar to the one that has developed now in Greece, Spain, Portugal, and will very soon become a reality for most EU countries…. Another factor contributing to the popularity of fascism will be the growth of left sentiments in society and the possible reincarnation of communist slogans.”

In the News (from Simon Fraser University, Vancouver, Canada): “Using scientific theories, toy ecosystem modeling and paleontological evidence as a crystal ball, 21 scientists, including one from Simon Fraser University, predict we’re on a much worse collision course with Mother Nature than currently thought.

“In Approaching a state-shift in Earth’s biosphere, a paper just published in Nature, the authors, whose expertise spans a multitude of disciplines, suggest our planet’s ecosystems are career[n]ing towards an imminent, irreversible collapse.

“Earth’s accelerating loss of biodiversity, its climate’s increasingly extreme fluctuations, its ecosystems’ growing connectedness and its radically changing total energy budget are precursors to reaching a planetary state threshold or tipping point.

“Once that happens, which the authors predict could be reached this century, the planet’s ecosystems, as we know them, could irreversibly collapse in the proverbial blink of an eye.”

(Dani Rodrik, a professor at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government): “Over the next few years, the world economy slumps into what future historians will call the Second Great Depression. Unemployment rises to record-high levels. Governments without fiscal resources are left with little option but to respond in ways that will only exacerbate problems for other countries: trade protection and competitive exchange-rate depreciation. As countries sink into economic autarky, repeated global economic summits yield few results beyond empty promises of cooperation.

“As in the Great Depression, the political consequences are more serious and hold longer-term significance. The eurozone’s collapse (and, for all practical purposes, that of the EU itself) forces a major realignment of European politics. …Centrist parties pay the price for their support of the European integration project, and are repudiated in the polls by parties of the extreme right or extreme left. Nativist governments begin to kick out immigrants.

“For nearby countries, Europe no longer shines as a beacon of democracy. The Arab Middle East takes a decisive turn towards authoritarian Islamic states. In Asia, economic strife between the US and China spills over into military conflict, with increasingly frequent naval clashes in the South China Sea threatening to erupt into a full-scale war.”

Robert Zoellick, The head of the World Bank): “Beware a rerun of the Great Panic of 2008:’ Head of World Bank warns Europe is heading for ‘danger zone’ as world markets suffer bleakest day of the year so far. …

“ Mr. Zoellick…said ‘it was ‘far from clear that eurozone leaders have steeled themselves’ for the looming catastrophe amid fears of a Greek exit from the single currency and meltdown in Spain.

“The flow of money into so-called ‘safe havens’ such as UK, German and US government debt turned into a stampede yesterday. …

“There was a raft of dismal economic news from around the world, with manufacturing output falling in Britain and Europe, unemployment jumping in the eurozone and America, and fast-emerging economies such as Brazil and China showing signs of running out of steam.”

In the News (from The Guardian): “Europe’s sovereign debt crisis exploded back into life on Tuesday, with markets across the continent rocked by a wave of panic selling amid renewed fears about the impact of savage austerity measures in Spain and Italy.

“Italy and Spain, the eurozone’s third and fourth biggest economies, were at the centre of the market turmoil, with investors demanding an increasingly high premium for holding their bonds.

“‘Spain is a big focus right now and even Greece will be coming back into the picture as it looks for another tranche of aid, so this eurozone debt tragedy is not going away, but seems to be getting worse,’ said Daniel Hwang, senior currency strategist at Forex.com in New York.”




Opinion (Graham Summers, Chief Market Strategist): “Over the last two years, I’ve been caught into believing a Crash was coming several times. In some ways I was right: we got sizable corrections of 15+%. But we never got the REAL CRASH I thought we would because the Fed stepped in.

“So what makes this time different?

“Several items:
1) The Crisis coming from Europe will be far, far larger in scope than anything the Fed has dealt with before.

2) The Fed is now politically toxic and cannot engage in aggressive monetary policy without experiencing severe political backlash (this is an election year).

3) The Fed’s resources are spent to the point that the only thing the Fed could do would be to announce an ENORMOUS monetary program which would cause a Crisis in of itself.

“In simple terms, this time around, when Europe goes down (and it will) it’s going to be bigger than anything we’ve seen in our lifetimes. And this time around, the world Central Banks are already leveraged to the hilt having spent virtually all of their dry powder propping up the markets for the last four years.

“Again, this time it is different. I realize most people believe the Fed can just hit ‘print’ and solve everything, but they’re wrong. The last time the Fed hit ‘print’ food prices hit records and revolutions began spreading in emerging markets. If the Fed does it again, especially in a more aggressive manner as it would have to, we would indeed enter a dark period in the world and the capital markets.”

Laurence Brahm, lawyer, global activist, international mediator, political columnist and author): “The UN Conference on Sustainable Development or Rio+20 held June 20-22 was intended to reaffirm political commitments made during the Earth Summit of 1992, and to frame a roadmap of principles to address climate change, food and water security, and the crisis of our global financial system. In the months leading to Rio+20 anticipation of some positive outcome was high. There was some reason for hope.

“UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon himself had declared, ‘We need to invent a new model — a model that offers growth and social inclusion — a model that is more respectful of the planet’s finite resources. That is why I have made sustainable development my number one priority.’

“But unfortunately, that is not what happened at Rio.

“The truth is Rio+20 failed us. Executive director of Greenpeace, Kumi Naidoo summed it up. ‘The Rio Earth Summit will not bring about the Future We Want, it will provide a stark and distressing reminder of the present we have. A world in which public health, human rights and sustainable development are subordinate to private profit, shallow national interest and business as usual.’…

“Rio+20 was a UN orchestrated theatre aimed to give people hope that global leaders can construct a framework to assure our planet’s future. For those on the ground it was just the opposite, underscoring political inability and lack of will to address financial crisis, poverty, income gap widening, food and water security, and imminent disasters of unmitigated climate change. …

“In the corridors and streets activists and youth recognized that the problems of our planet are not in trying to create more consumption, but rather in over consumption.”


Unfortunately, it's just a tip of an Iceberg

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AAAAAAAAAA
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Joined: 22 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:48 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Alienred wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote:
@Alienred, were you a follower of Marshall Applewhite? Worried


No, I was never a follower of anyone. I never even heard that name before. It seems he was a really mad person. How can you even compare him to Osho? Osho's message is always life affirmative, but you have to see things as they really are. It is not just another economical crisis - there is much more to it.




In the News (from Daily Disruption): “Worldwide, 2011 was the coolest year on record since 2008, yet temperatures remained above the 30 year average, according to the 2011 State of the Climate report released online today by NOAA. The peer-reviewed report, issued in coordination with the American Meteorological Society (AMS), was compiled by 378 scientists from 48 countries around the world. It provides a detailed update on global climate indicators, notable weather events and other data collected by environmental monitoring stations and instruments on land, sea, ice and sky.

“‘2011 will be remembered as a year of extreme events, both in the United States and around the world,” said Deputy NOAA Administrator Kathryn D. Sullivan, Ph.D. ‘Every weather event that happens now takes place in the context of a changing global environment. This annual report provides scientists and citizens alike with an analysis of what has happened so we can all prepare for what is to come.’ …

“The report also provides details on a number of extreme events experienced all over the globe, including the worst flooding in Thailand in almost 70 years, drought and deadly tornado outbreaks in the United States, devastating flooding in Brazil and the worst summer heat wave in central and southern Europe since 2003.”

(Yuri V. Krupnov, Director of the Institute for Demography, Migration and Regional Development): “We have now entered into the epicenter of the global financial and economic crisis. Who will offer a different socio-economic model? Russia has every opportunity to demonstrate a practical proposal, i.e. to take the Far East and Eastern Siberia and show an alternative model of development in these areas. We are going into a tailspin of crisis. Everything will be greatly degraded and sink. Unless there is a world leader, who will offer a new development agenda, we can slide towards a global war.”


(Yuri Gavrilechko, Strategic Culture Foundation): “The fifth year of the global financial crisis reveals the inability of existing institutions to overcome the crisis on the basis of the dominant neo-liberal ideology. Capitalism, as it turned out, is also unable to cope with the problems, generated by it, as once feudalism or socialism of the Soviet kind. As a result, in the near future, we will be able to observe a combination of the old ideological concepts and possibly the birth of new forms and patterns of social organization.

“The failure of multiculturalism in Europe and the strengthening of the crisis have already led to an increase in support for nationalism and socialism. … Because as opposed to socialism, professing internationalism and brotherhood of nations, Fascism and National Socialism was based on the idea of exclusive supremacy of one race over another; it is more logical that they would lay the basis for a pan-European identity. …

“The peculiarity of pan-European fascism might be a symbiosis with the leftists and even the radical left-wing tendencies. … The situation in Germany in 1933 was largely similar to the one that has developed now in Greece, Spain, Portugal, and will very soon become a reality for most EU countries…. Another factor contributing to the popularity of fascism will be the growth of left sentiments in society and the possible reincarnation of communist slogans.”

In the News (from Simon Fraser University, Vancouver, Canada): “Using scientific theories, toy ecosystem modeling and paleontological evidence as a crystal ball, 21 scientists, including one from Simon Fraser University, predict we’re on a much worse collision course with Mother Nature than currently thought.

“In Approaching a state-shift in Earth’s biosphere, a paper just published in Nature, the authors, whose expertise spans a multitude of disciplines, suggest our planet’s ecosystems are career[n]ing towards an imminent, irreversible collapse.

“Earth’s accelerating loss of biodiversity, its climate’s increasingly extreme fluctuations, its ecosystems’ growing connectedness and its radically changing total energy budget are precursors to reaching a planetary state threshold or tipping point.

“Once that happens, which the authors predict could be reached this century, the planet’s ecosystems, as we know them, could irreversibly collapse in the proverbial blink of an eye.”

(Dani Rodrik, a professor at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government): “Over the next few years, the world economy slumps into what future historians will call the Second Great Depression. Unemployment rises to record-high levels. Governments without fiscal resources are left with little option but to respond in ways that will only exacerbate problems for other countries: trade protection and competitive exchange-rate depreciation. As countries sink into economic autarky, repeated global economic summits yield few results beyond empty promises of cooperation.

“As in the Great Depression, the political consequences are more serious and hold longer-term significance. The eurozone’s collapse (and, for all practical purposes, that of the EU itself) forces a major realignment of European politics. …Centrist parties pay the price for their support of the European integration project, and are repudiated in the polls by parties of the extreme right or extreme left. Nativist governments begin to kick out immigrants.

“For nearby countries, Europe no longer shines as a beacon of democracy. The Arab Middle East takes a decisive turn towards authoritarian Islamic states. In Asia, economic strife between the US and China spills over into military conflict, with increasingly frequent naval clashes in the South China Sea threatening to erupt into a full-scale war.”

Robert Zoellick, The head of the World Bank): “Beware a rerun of the Great Panic of 2008:’ Head of World Bank warns Europe is heading for ‘danger zone’ as world markets suffer bleakest day of the year so far. …

“ Mr. Zoellick…said ‘it was ‘far from clear that eurozone leaders have steeled themselves’ for the looming catastrophe amid fears of a Greek exit from the single currency and meltdown in Spain.

“The flow of money into so-called ‘safe havens’ such as UK, German and US government debt turned into a stampede yesterday. …

“There was a raft of dismal economic news from around the world, with manufacturing output falling in Britain and Europe, unemployment jumping in the eurozone and America, and fast-emerging economies such as Brazil and China showing signs of running out of steam.”

In the News (from The Guardian): “Europe’s sovereign debt crisis exploded back into life on Tuesday, with markets across the continent rocked by a wave of panic selling amid renewed fears about the impact of savage austerity measures in Spain and Italy.

“Italy and Spain, the eurozone’s third and fourth biggest economies, were at the centre of the market turmoil, with investors demanding an increasingly high premium for holding their bonds.

“‘Spain is a big focus right now and even Greece will be coming back into the picture as it looks for another tranche of aid, so this eurozone debt tragedy is not going away, but seems to be getting worse,’ said Daniel Hwang, senior currency strategist at Forex.com in New York.”




Opinion (Graham Summers, Chief Market Strategist): “Over the last two years, I’ve been caught into believing a Crash was coming several times. In some ways I was right: we got sizable corrections of 15+%. But we never got the REAL CRASH I thought we would because the Fed stepped in.

“So what makes this time different?

“Several items:
1) The Crisis coming from Europe will be far, far larger in scope than anything the Fed has dealt with before.

2) The Fed is now politically toxic and cannot engage in aggressive monetary policy without experiencing severe political backlash (this is an election year).

3) The Fed’s resources are spent to the point that the only thing the Fed could do would be to announce an ENORMOUS monetary program which would cause a Crisis in of itself.

“In simple terms, this time around, when Europe goes down (and it will) it’s going to be bigger than anything we’ve seen in our lifetimes. And this time around, the world Central Banks are already leveraged to the hilt having spent virtually all of their dry powder propping up the markets for the last four years.

“Again, this time it is different. I realize most people believe the Fed can just hit ‘print’ and solve everything, but they’re wrong. The last time the Fed hit ‘print’ food prices hit records and revolutions began spreading in emerging markets. If the Fed does it again, especially in a more aggressive manner as it would have to, we would indeed enter a dark period in the world and the capital markets.”

Laurence Brahm, lawyer, global activist, international mediator, political columnist and author): “The UN Conference on Sustainable Development or Rio+20 held June 20-22 was intended to reaffirm political commitments made during the Earth Summit of 1992, and to frame a roadmap of principles to address climate change, food and water security, and the crisis of our global financial system. In the months leading to Rio+20 anticipation of some positive outcome was high. There was some reason for hope.

“UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon himself had declared, ‘We need to invent a new model — a model that offers growth and social inclusion — a model that is more respectful of the planet’s finite resources. That is why I have made sustainable development my number one priority.’

“But unfortunately, that is not what happened at Rio.

“The truth is Rio+20 failed us. Executive director of Greenpeace, Kumi Naidoo summed it up. ‘The Rio Earth Summit will not bring about the Future We Want, it will provide a stark and distressing reminder of the present we have. A world in which public health, human rights and sustainable development are subordinate to private profit, shallow national interest and business as usual.’…

“Rio+20 was a UN orchestrated theatre aimed to give people hope that global leaders can construct a framework to assure our planet’s future. For those on the ground it was just the opposite, underscoring political inability and lack of will to address financial crisis, poverty, income gap widening, food and water security, and imminent disasters of unmitigated climate change. …

“In the corridors and streets activists and youth recognized that the problems of our planet are not in trying to create more consumption, but rather in over consumption.”


Unfortunately, it's just a tip of an Iceberg


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NeonVomit
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Joined: 20 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Alienred wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:
tl;dr.


I"ll try to make a short summary:


That's not a short summary.

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HinatAArcticA
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Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 1506
Location: Iwatodai

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

NeonVomit wrote:
Alienred wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:
tl;dr.


I"ll try to make a short summary:


That's not a short summary.


+1

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Alienred
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Joined: 19 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Though you are joking - you really dont know what is going on in the world - that's just a glimpse of what's happening!




NeonVomit wrote:

That's not a short summary.


I am sorry Very Happy , but it's not really that big.


The last, that I want to share with you is the wisdom of Eckhart Tolle: ( there is a lot to read but I'll be very grateful, if you read it just once without any prejudices, and there is no need too believe in anything)


History of MADNESS

The achievements of humanity are impressive and undeniable. We have created sublime works of music,literature, painting, architecture, and sculpture. More recently, science and technology have brought about radical changes in the way we live and have enabled us to do and create things that
would have been considered miraculous even two hundred years ago.


No
doubt: The human mind is highly intelligent.

Yet its very intelligence is tainted by madness.

Science and technology have magnified the destructive impact that the dysfunction of the human mind has upon the planet, other lifeforms,and upon humans themselves. That is why the history of the twentieth century is where that dysfunction, that collective insanity, can be
most clearly recognized.

A further factor is that this dysfunction is actually intensifying and accelerating. The First World War broke out in 1914. Destructive and cruel wars, motivated by fear, greed, and the desire for power, had been common occurrences throughout human history, as had slavery, torture, and
widespread violence inflicted for religious and ideological reasons.

Humans suffered more at the hands of each other than through natural disasters. By the year 1914, however, the highly intelligent human mind had invented not only the internal combustion engine, but also bombs, machine guns, submarines, flame throwers, and poison gas.

Intelligence in the service of madness In static trench warfare in France and Belgium, millions of men perished to gain a few miles of mud. When the war was over in 1918, the survivors look in horror and incomprehension upon the devastation left
behind: ten million human beings killed and many more maimed or disfigured.

Never before had human madness been so destructive in its effect, so clearly visible. Little did they know that this was only the beginning. By the end of the century, the number of people who died a violent
death at the hand of their fellow humans would rise to more than one hundred million. They died not only through wars between nations, but also through mass exterminations and genocide, such as the murder of twenty million “class enemies, spies, and traitors” in the Soviet Union under Stalin or the unspeakable horrors of the Holocaust in Nazi Germany.

They also died in countless smaller internal conflicts, such as the Spanish civil war or during the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia when a quarter of that country’s population was murdered.

We only need to watch the daily news on television to realize that the madness has not abated, that is continuing into the twentyfirst
century.


Another aspect of the collective dysfunction of the human mind is the unprecedented violence that humans are inflicting on other lifeforms and the planet itself – the destruction of oxygenproducing
forests and other plant and animal life; illtreatment
of animals in factory farms; and poisoning of rivers, oceans, and air. Driven by greed, ignorant of their connectedness to the whole, humans persist in behavior that, if continued unchecked, can only
result in their own destruction.


The collective manifestations of the insanity that lies at the heart of the human condition constitute the greater part of human history. It is to a large extent a history of madness.

If the history of humanity were the clinical
case history of a single human being, the diagnosis would have to be:

chronic paranoid delusions, a pathological propensity to commit murder and acts of extreme violence and cruelty against his perceived “enemies” – his own unconsciousness projected outward. Criminally insane, with a few brief lucid intervals.

Fear, greed, and the desire for power are the psychological motivating forces not only behind warfare and violence between nations, tribes, religions, and ideologies, but also the cause of incessant conflict in personal relationships.

They bring about a distortion in your perception of other people and yourself. Through them, you misinterpret every situation, leading to misguided action designed to rid you of fear and satisfy your need for more, a bottomless hole that can never be filled.

It is important to realize, however, that fear, greed, and the desire for power are not the dysfunction that we are speaking of but are themselves created by the dysfunction which is a deepseated collective delusion that lies within the mind of each human being.


THE ARISING NEW CONSCIOUSNESS

Most ancient religions and spiritual l traditions share the common insight – that our “normal” state of mind is marred by a fundamental defect.

However, out of this insight into the nature of the human condition – we may call it the bad news – arises a second insight: the good news of the possibility of a radical transformation of human consciousness. In Hindu teachings (and sometimes in Buddhism also), this transformation is called enlightenment. In the teachings of Jesus, it is salvation, and in Buddhism, it is the end of suffering. Liberation and awakening are other terms used to
describe this transformation.

The greatest achievement of humanity is not its works of art, science, or technology, but the recognition of its own dysfunction, its own madness.
In the distant past, this recognition already came to a few individuals. A man called Gautama Siddhartha, who lived 2,600 years ago in India, was perhaps the first who saw it with absolute clarity.


Later the title Buddha was conferred upon him. Buddha means “the awakened one.” At abut the same
time, another of humanity’s early awakened teachers emerged in China. His name was Lao Tzu. He left a record of his teaching in the form of one of the
most profound spiritual books ever written, the Tao Te Ching.

To recognize one’s own insanity, is of course, the arising of sanity, the beginning of healing and transcendence. A new dimension of consciousness had begun to emerge on the planet, a first tentative flowering. Those rare individuals then spoke to their contemporaries. They spoke of sin, of suffering, of delusion. They said, “Look how you live. See what you are doing, the suffering you create.” They then pointed to the possibility of
awakening from the collective nightmare of “normal” human existence. They showed the way.


The world was not yet ready for them, and yet they were a vital and necessary part of human awakening. Inevitably, they were mostly misunderstood by their contemporaries, as well as by subsequent generations. Their teachings, although both simple and powerful, became distorted and misinterpreted, in some cases even as they were recorded in writing by their disciples. Over the centuries, many things were added that had nothing to do with the original teachings, but were reflections of a
fundamental misunderstanding.

Some of the teachers were ridiculed, reviled, or killed; others came to be worshipped as gods. Teachings that pointed the way beyond the dysfunction o the human mind, the way out of the collective insanity, were distorted and became themselves part of the insanity.

And so religions, to a large extent, became divisive rather than unifying forces. Instead of bringing about an ending of violence and hatred through a realization of the fundamental oneness of all life, they brought more violence and hatred, more divisions between people as well as between different religions and even withing the same religion.


They became ideologies, belief systems people could identify with and so use them to enhance their false sense of self. Through them, they could make themselves “right” and others “wrong” and thus define their identity through their enemies, the “others,” the “nonbelievers” or “wrong believers” who not infrequently they saw themselves justified in killing. Man made “God” in his own image.
The eternal, the infinite, and unnameable was reduced to a mental idol that you had to believe in and worship as “my god” or “our god.”

And yet… and yet… in spite of all the insane deeds perpetrated in the name of religion, the Truth to which they point still shines at their core.

It still shines, however dimly, through layers upon layers of distortion and misinterpretation. It is unlikely, however, that you will be able to perceive it there unless you have at least already had glimpse of that Truth within yourself.


Throughout history, there have always been rare individuals who experienced a shift in consciousness and so realized within themselves that toward which all religions point. To describe that nonconceptual Truth, they then used the conceptual framework of their own religions.

Through some of those men and women, “schools” or movements developed within all major religions that represented not only a rediscovery, but in some cases an intensification of the light of the original teaching. This is how Gnosticism and mysticism came into existence in early and medieval Christianity, Sufism in the Islamic religion, Hasidism and Kabbala in Judaism, Advaita Vedanta in Hinduism, Zen and Dzogchen in Buddhism. Most of these schools were iconoclastic.


They did away with layers upon layers of deadening conceptualization and mental belief structures, and for this reason most of them were viewed with suspicion and often hostility by the established religious hierarchies.

Unlike mainstream religion, their teachings emphasized realization and inner transformation. It is through those esoteric schools or movements that the major religions regained the transformative power of the original teachings, although in most cases, only a small minority of people had access to them. Their numbers were never large enough to have any significant impact on the deep collective unconsciousness of the majority. Over time, some of those schools themselves became too rigidly formalized or conceptualized to remain effective.


Current situation

Responding to a radical crisis that threatens our very survival – this is humanity’s challenge now. The dysfunction of the egoic human mind, recognized already more than 2,500 years ago by the ancient wisdom teachers and now magnified through science and technology, is for the first time threatening the survival of the planet.

Until very recently, the transformation of human consciousness – also pointed to by the ancient teachers – was no more than a possibility, realized by a few rare individuals here and there, irrespective of cultural or religious background. A widespread flowering of human consciousness did not happen because it was not yet imperative.


A significant portion of the earth’s population will soon recognize, if they haven’t already done so, that humanity is now faced with a stark choice: Evolve or die. A still relatively small but rapidly growing percentage of humanity is already
experiencing within themselves the breakup of the old egoic mind patterns and the emergence of a new dimension of consciousness.

All true artists, whether they know it or not, create from a place of no-mind, from inner stillness.
...creative breakthroughs came at a time of mental quietude.


The predominance of mind is no more than a stage in the evolution of consciousness. We need to go on to the next stage now as a matter of urgency; otherwise, we will be destroyed by the mind, which has grown into a monster.
What is arising now is not a new belief system, a new religion, spiritual ideology, or mythology. We are coming to the end not only of mythologies but also of ideologies and belief systems. The change goes deeper than the content of your mind, deeper than your thoughts. In fact, at the heart of the new consciousness is the transcendence of thought, the
newfound ability of rising above thought, of ealizing a dimension within yourself that is infinitely more vast than thought.


You then no longer derive your identity, your sense of who you are, from the incessant stream of thinking that in the old consciousness you take to be yourself. What a liberation to realize that the “voice in my head” is not who I am. Who am I then?

The one who sees that. The awareness that is prior to thought, the space in which the thought – or the emotion or sense perception – happens. Ego is no more than this: identification with form, which primarily means thought forms.

If evil has any reality – and it has a relative, not an absolute, reality – this is also its definition: complete identification with form – physical forms, thought forms, emotional forms. This results in a total unawareness of my connectedness with the whole, my intrinsic oneness with every “other” as well as with the Source.

This forgetfulness is original sin, suffering, delusion. When this delusion of utter separateness underlies and governs whatever I think, say, and do, what kind of world do I create? To find the answer to this, observe how humans relate to each other, read a history book, or watch the news on television tonight. If the structures of the human mind remain unchanged, we will always end up recreating fundamentally the same world, the same evils, the same dysfunction.

All true artists, whether they know it or not, create from a place of no-mind, from inner stillness.

The predominance of mind is no more than a stage in the evolution of consciousness. We need to go on to the next stage now as a matter of urgency; otherwise, we will be destroyed by the mind, which has grown into a monster.

Eckhart Tolle


I highly recommend to take a look into his books - the "Power of now", "Stillnes speaks", "New Earth" - the same message that Krishnamurti and Osho tried to spread but a lot more applicable for modern people and our time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=oORUehs4s7Q&feature=related

You can see but you're blind
Someone turned the sun around
But you can see in your mind
The gates of babylon Very Happy

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Stratowarius
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Shocked You are sweet but too much... Laughing Laughing

Our shepherd Gary Tortiglioni says...


Thou shalt share, that none may seek without finding!


The tale of our Flying Spagetti Monster and its followers cuts to the heart of one of the thorniest questions in religious studies.

What defines a religion? A genuine theological beliefe? Or simply a set of rituals and a community joining together, as a way of signaling their cultural alliances to others?
Is an anti-religion, like Flying Spagetti Monsters, actually a religion, including that deep human need to feel like there is something bigger than oneself out there?

Says our Gary and so say all of us. Jä!

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Peace Warrior
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Alien-read is a copypastafarian Very Happy

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NeonVomit
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Indeed. Ctrl+ C and ctrl+ V seem to be his best friends.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

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Burning Reflection
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I appreciate your concerns, AlienRed. I read the first couple pastes by Osho and Krishnamurti is one my heroes. You are doing all you can which is change yourself and hopefully another soul will hear and understand what you have to say...but the Universe does not remain silent and will continue trying to teach us what we need to learn until we get it... whether we like it or not. Stay true to your truths and keep the faith alive, brother!

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Alienred
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

NeonVomit wrote:
Indeed. Ctrl+ C and ctrl+ V seem to be his best friends.


Peace Warrior wrote:
Alien-read is a copypastafarian Very Happy


Is that all you can say?





pity )))))))))




Stratowarius wrote:
:
Our shepherd Gary Tortiglioni says...


Thou shalt share, that none may seek without finding!


The tale of our Flying Spagetti Monster and its followers cuts to the heart of one of the thorniest questions in religious studies.

What defines a religion? A genuine theological beliefe? Or simply a set of rituals and a community joining together, as a way of signaling their cultural alliances to others?
Is an anti-religion, like Flying Spagetti Monsters, actually a religion, including that deep human need to feel like there is something bigger than oneself out there?

Says our Gary and so say all of us. Jä!


I think, in the quotes above, i have covered this questions, especially in my second and following posts (Jiddu Krishnamurti : First of all, let us find out what is not religion.)

True religion according to what has been quoted has nothing to do with beliefs, rituals etc. It concerns your awareness, your ability to perceive reality without the projections of your mind and you can experiment with it:





quote
THEY TREMBLE, THEY ARE UNSTEADY,
THEY WANDER AT THEIR WILL.
IT IS GOOD TO CONTROL THEM.
AND TO MASTER THEM BRINGS HAPPINESS.

Watch, and you will see the trembling mind, the quivering thoughts chasing each other, running in every possible direction, consistent, inconsistent, meaningful, meaningless.

Just one day sit down in your room, close the doors, and start writing the thoughts that are happening to you.

That will help you to become aware. Just go on writing whatsoever is happening. Don't edit, don't make them look consistent, beautiful. It is not to be shown to anybody, it is just for your observation. For fifteen minutes go on writing, then read it, and you will be puzzled: are you mad or something? What kind of things are going on in your head?

All kinds of things, so irrelevant that you cannot conceive any possible relationship with them. Anything leads to anything just accidentally.
The dog starts barking in the neighborhood and your mind starts functioning. You remember a dog you used to have in your childhood, and suddenly the mind jumps from the dog to a friend who was also known in the childhood...and from the friend to the school, and the teacher.

this way the mind goes on hopping, and you will land nobody knows where. And it was just started by the barking of the dog who knows nothing about you, who is not interested at all in you, but he triggered a process. You may reach anywhere! And each time it happens you will reach some other place.
Mind goes on jumping from one place to another, and mind has so much information that it can produce all kinds of worlds.

Watching it you will see the truth of Buddha's statement: THEY TREMBLE, THEY ARE UNSTEADY, THEY WANDER AT THEIR WILL

They don't listen to you, they have their own will. Each thought has its own will and insists on remaining itself. It does not want to be tinkered with, it does not want you to interfere. If you interfere, it resists, it protests. Every thought wants its own individuality.And these millions of thoughts in your head destroy your individuality, because they all claim their own individuality and they all claim to be autonomous and free.

And if you say anything, they ask, "Who
are you?" And each time they will show you your place, they will reduce you to nothing.

Unless they are controlled, Buddha says, there is no possibility of bliss happening to you. You will remain in a mess, you will remain a confusion.
Osho




Don't you agree with the following quote? Can you sit quietly for even 20 minutes without experiencing traffic in your head? Well, maybe you can - experiment!

Also you can try this:



Truth is the ultimate guest. You will have to empty yourself utterly, only then can truth come in.

Thoughts are a pre-occupation. People who are too much in thoughts remain in a private kind of world. They have their own world of thoughts and dreams and projections and desires. They go on rushing here and there, but they don’t look at the trees, the greenery, the flowers, the birds, the people, the children; they can’t see anything.

Just remain here, and you will be surprised. If you are just now here, all thoughts disappear, because all thoughts are either of the past or of the future. No thought is of the present.

Change your inclination from the mind to the heart. That is the first change. Think less, feel more. Intellectualize less, intuit more.

Thinking is a very deceptive process, it makes you feel that you are doing great things. But you are simply making castles in the air. Thoughts are nothing but castles in the air.

Get out of your head and get into your heart. Think less, feel more. Don’t be too much attached to thoughts; get deeper into sensations.

Just see the change: it is only a change of gestalt. You are lost in your thoughts, you cannot hear the birds singing. Then you change the gestalt.

Just the focus changes, it is a shift. You are no more worried by the thoughts: suddenly all the birds are there singing, the flowers blooming, the sunrays passing through the trees and the wind playing around with the old dead leaves. Just a shift…

These are the three layers: thoughts, the outermost; and being, the innermost; and feeling, in between, the bridge.

Move from thoughts to feelings and from feelings to being, and start living from being. That does not mean that you don’t have any feelings — you will have feelings, but those feelings will follow being; they will have the flavor of being, the heartbeat of being.

It does not mean that you will not be able to think — you will be able to think far more intelligently, but now your thinking will have the juiciness of your feelings and the light of your being; your thoughts will be luminous.

All thinking is out of fear. The more you become afraid, the more you think. Whenever there is no fear, thinking stops.

If you have fallen in love with someone, there are moments with your beloved or your lover when thinking stops. Just sitting by the lake, doing nothing, holding hands, looking at the moon or the stars, or just gazing into the darkness of the night, sometimes thoughts stop because there is no fear. Love dispels fear just as light dispels darkness.

Drop the mind! Stop thinking! Become more alert! See the trees and listen to the birds, with no screens of thoughts hindering the path. Meet directly! Truth is immediate, radiant, herenow. It is not that truth has to be discovered — only you have to become aware. Truth is already here.
Osho


Stratowarius wrote:
:
Our shepherd Gary Tortiglioni says...


Don't listen to him - he is deceiving you - his real name is "your mind" and he tries to control you by saying that he is your master - you don't need a shepherd, experiment with awareness!
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

If you are really interested. i recommend the following book :




and also :



Mormegil wrote:
nigga!


Just an ordinary day, all around it seems O.K.
With a normal view

Then you open up your eyes, suddenly you realize
Everyone's confused

Everyone around is sad, but, they analyze you mad
Sayin' you've lost your mind

Seems their lives have been abused
With a risk of being used, no happiness to find

Seems the whole society in the world's insanity
Sayin' you've lost your mind
Yngwie Malmsteen
Very Happy

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Stratowarius
Sr. Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1701

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:00 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Laughing I think you are a little crazy. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Do you really expect us to read all this? It is too much, too long and honestly a bit boring too. Buh Zzz Zzz Couldn't you say the same thing in a twitter?

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AAAAAAAAAA
Sr. Member


Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 3124

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Alienred wrote:
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:



Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Though you are joking - you really dont know what is going on in the world - that's just a glimpse of what's happening!


Your pseudo-philosophical bullshit has more holes in it than my underwear.

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Alienred
Jr. Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Burning Reflection wrote:
I appreciate your concerns, AlienRed. I read the first couple pastes by Osho and Krishnamurti is one my heroes. You are doing all you can which is change yourself and hopefully another soul will hear and understand what you have to say...but the Universe does not remain silent and will continue trying to teach us what we need to learn until we get it... whether we like it or not. Stay true to your truths and keep the faith alive, brother!


Thank you very much my friend)!

hopefully...

These people spent their lifetimes talking and showing ways to find true happines, trying with all their heart and mind to show us a better way of living, a way of living without suffering, pointing out that our ego is the main source of unhappines and all you hear in response is "shit" Crying or Very sad

Universe (Nature) will give us a very hard lesson if we wont change our ways on our own - it will hit us very hard - it will force us to change. The only question is whatever path we will choose? We could do it comfortably or its going to be the path of suffering. I really hope it will be the former!

There is so much agression Crying or Very sad

Mormegil wrote:

How can you say it's shit if you didn't even read it ? Confused


Stratowarius wrote:
Laughing Couldn't you say the same thing in a twitter?


The primary cause of unhappiness is never the situation but thought about it. Be aware of the thoughts you are thinking. Separate them from the situation, which is always neutral.
It is as it is.”
Those who have not found their true wealth, which is the radiant joy of Being and the deep, unshakable peace that comes with it, are beggars, even if they have great material wealth
Love, joy, and peace cannot flourish until you have freed yourself from mind dominance.”

Eckhart Tolle


Truth is not something outside to be discovered, it is something inside to be realized.
Osho

Self-knowledge is not knowing oneself, but knowing every movement of thought. Because the self is the thought, the image, the image of K and the image of the `me.' So, watch every movement of thought, never letting one thought go without realizing what it is. Try it. Do it and you will see what takes place.
Jiddu Krishnamurti


When the sun rises
In the east
They have all begun
Worshipping the beast

Now we must lift the curse
Its gone from bad to worse

Evil minds hypnotize
The enemy within
The enemy within

I can't believe
The madness all around

We must see the true enemy
Wolves are at the door
Can't you see

The enemy is within
The enemy is within

Yngwie Malmsteen



AAAAAAAAAA wrote:


Your pseudo-philosophical bullshit has more holes in it than my underwear.


It is not my philosophy and it's not philosophy at all.
And It's not meant to be a perfect philosophy without any holes - you miss the whole point! And you dont't have to accept it, you can experiment with this so called philosophy instead of writing meaningful and insulting comments. And if not - that's your problem.

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browneyedgirl
Sr. Member


Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 27230
Location: Starfall

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Quote:
@Alienred, were you a follower of Marshall Applewhite? Worried



Quote:
No, I was never a follower of anyone. I never even heard that name before. It seems he was a really mad person
.

Indeed. MA was the cult leader of a very intellectual New Age religious group called Heaven's Gate who all committed mass suicide in 1997, I think. They also had a huge collection of guns and such to use against anyone who tried to break-up their little party.

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Burning Reflection
Sr. Member


Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 580
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Alienred wrote:


Universe (Nature) will give us a very hard lesson if we wont change our ways on our own - it will hit us very hard - it will force us to change. The only question is whatever path we will choose? We could do it comfortably or its going to be the path of suffering. I really hope it will be the former!


I think the best way I have heard it put is that the world is in a theoretic horse race between the powers trying to save and destroy it, but humanity possesses the means and strength to determine its outcome. Aggression seems prevalent and definitely exists, but on the other side of the "horse race" is love that is always there and will never die. Even if love does prevail, our planet doesn't have time to wait for us to change and some of the damage done to the Earth is irreversible. I don't believe in a predetermined destiny for the human race as we have always been free to choose how we will live, and now, also, how we will evolve. The way of "comfort" will inevitably bring us some hard work and discomfort in our evolution, but I think there will be some sense of balance and comfort in this new way of living and being.

And try not to worry too much about those that don't listen...there are plenty of resources, outlets, and individuals that are expressing their truth like you all around the world. The signs and answers are there and available to those that keep open ears, heart, and mind. Conversely and equivocally, those that don't have open ears, heart, or mind won't see or hear the answers available to them. It takes a willingness of the individual to want to hear this kind of dialogue, but the opportunity frequently arise more often than not and there are surprisingly people that want to listen. Just thank God that you have been able to internalize these ways to be as your own and that you can share your love and new found knowledge with the rest of the world. Smile

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AAAAAAAAAA
Sr. Member


Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 3124

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:10 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Alienred wrote:

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:


Your pseudo-philosophical bullshit has more holes in it than my underwear.


It is not my philosophy and it's not philosophy at all.
And It's not meant to be a perfect philosophy without any holes - you miss the whole point! And you dont't have to accept it, you can experiment with this so called philosophy instead of writing meaningful and insulting comments. And if not - that's your problem.


It was more a statement about my underwear than your philosophy. I call it "self-defecating humor". Smile

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Rebel
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Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2108

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:11 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Christ is the only way

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