What's Wrong ??

[MaFiaBoY]

And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.

OK so we're all dumbasses who are not even able to appreciate music and have opinions about it ? C'mon Timo, this topic wasn't here to say "Blah, Strato-guys suck big time because of that and that.". As it was said before, nothing is perfect on this planet, and I think this thread was created to tell what we dislike in Strato's music and what, in our opinions could make us liking it more. But it was never made to make you change your music or whatever, this is your band, not ours.

[antonio]

i'd like that 'varius play progressive metal... or other styles
in my opinion the only thing that could be considered wrong is this..

[dupinguez]

And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.

OK so we're all dumbasses who are not even able to appreciate music and have opinions about it ? C'mon Timo, this topic wasn't here to say "Blah, Strato-guys suck big time because of that and that.". As it was said before, nothing is perfect on this planet, and I think this thread was created to tell what we dislike in Strato's music and what, in our opinions could make us liking it more. But it was never made to make you change your music or whatever, this is your band, not ours.

I agree with you 100000%. Some of us are also studying music hardly you know? But you've chosen your own way of composing music and that's it, as MafiaBoY said, this is your band. Then it's always good to discuss and share opinions, we've no pretention of telling you how to compose, don't worry about that.
As far as you compose with your soul, that will be good music for me.

[shaz]

And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.

OK so we're all dumbasses who are not even able to appreciate music and have opinions about it ? C'mon Timo, this topic wasn't here to say "Blah, Strato-guys suck big time because of that and that.". As it was said before, nothing is perfect on this planet, and I think this thread was created to tell what we dislike in Strato's music and what, in our opinions could make us liking it more. But it was never made to make you change your music or whatever, this is your band, not ours.

I agree with you 100000%. Some of us are also studying music hardly you know? But you've chosen your own way of composing music and that's it, as MafiaBoY said, this is your band. Then it's always good to discuss and share opinions, we've no pretention of telling you how to compose, don't worry about that.
As far as you compose with your soul, that will be good music for me.

I actually understood that part about TT:s post a bit differently.. I think he's talking about all the music critics in magazines etc., not us. Doesn't matter too much though, it's no big thing.

[Patricia]

And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.

Yes, only few of them have the knowledge and experience about music...I've seen that too..I've some other friends who have their own bands and who have already been confronted to this too..
Some people talk without knowing very well the subject sometimes...
I wonder how they would react if they should play live (instead of the band who they criticise) in front of people for example...
Of course, music can be criticized but, if the people doesn't know very well the subject...

After playing in this band for 21 years and after playing guitar for 32 years I am still doing the same like I was doing always, I make music because I have music in me and it is a necessity for me to write songs.
I cannot live without music.

I can understand your point as i'm passionated of music myself since a long time.
I stay modest, but i like to compose and create songs too, and i think there are some people in this forum who are musicians and composers too and who understand this point of view.
Yes, that's right, we can't live without music.

[khamael]

OK so we're all dumbasses who are not even able to appreciate music and have opinions about it ?

Timo didnt say that...dont distort things please.

Some of us are also studying music hardly you know?

And with that?
We arent speaking about theory or rhythm errors or playing in the wrong scale...
(on this aspect Strato's records are perfect at 99,99999%), we are speaking about opinions and feelings. But maybe i misunderstood what you wanted to say.

BTW No matter if people are music teachers or a young musician's rookies on this aspect of the things.
...Sure if in a song there are 4 "conventional"mistakes somebody who have studied music could got all the errors and a nn-musician could get 2/4...but we arent speaking about that...




Anyway, all of you have expressed your opinion, give to TimoTolkki the right to be jealous and to defend his songs.
Babies are all for a Mother or a Father never forget that.

[crostrato]

It´s sweet to read this topic.
An artist must follow his/her own way without listening to anyone.
But it is almost impossible for an artist to survive without people.
But it is possible and some of the toughest guys have done it.
I always write all my songs to myself. They are my babies.
And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.
After playing in this band for 21 years and after playing guitar for 32 years I am still doing the same like I was doing always, I make music because I have music in me and it is a necessity for me to write songs.
I cannot live without music.

Correct

[MaFiaBoY]

OK so we're all dumbasses who are not even able to appreciate music and have opinions about it ?

Timo didnt say that...dont distort things please.

Maybe you're right, sorry if it is but that's what I understood.

[Holy Light]

i'd like that 'varius play progressive metal... or other styles
in my opinion the only thing that could be considered wrong is this..

Stratovarius is actually considered progressive for these reasons. They have concept albums, they incorporate classical influences in their music, double instrument parts and have ambient keyboard arrangements. They also played with an orchestra, which would imply some progressive influence.

I'm taking a class called the Analyzation of Progressive Rock at Berklee. I'm learning that a lot of things are considered progressive. Not just bands who use a load of odd meter. Did you know The Beatles and The Beach Boys are considered progressive? Quite interesting.

[MaFiaBoY]

i'd like that 'varius play progressive metal... or other styles
in my opinion the only thing that could be considered wrong is this..

Stratovarius is actually considered progressive for these reasons. They have concept albums, they incorporate classical influences in their music, double instrument parts and have ambient keyboard arrangements. They also played with an orchestra, which would imply some progressive influence.

I'm taking a class called the Analyzation of Progressive Rock at Berklee. I'm learning that a lot of things are considered progressive. Not just bands who use a load of odd meter. Did you know The Beatles and The Beach Boys are considered progressive? Quite interesting.

Stratovarius, concept-albums ? Listen to some stuff from Pain Of Salvation or Ayreon, THIS is concept-albums...

[Holy Light]

i'd like that 'varius play progressive metal... or other styles
in my opinion the only thing that could be considered wrong is this..

Stratovarius is actually considered progressive for these reasons. They have concept albums, they incorporate classical influences in their music, double instrument parts and have ambient keyboard arrangements. They also played with an orchestra, which would imply some progressive influence.

I'm taking a class called the Analyzation of Progressive Rock at Berklee. I'm learning that a lot of things are considered progressive. Not just bands who use a load of odd meter. Did you know The Beatles and The Beach Boys are considered progressive? Quite interesting.

Stratovarius, concept-albums ? Listen to some stuff from Pain Of Salvation or Ayreon, THIS is concept-albums...

A concept album can have a few songs based on a theme or story. Like Elements or Visions (and some other Strato). I haven't looked into the older Stratovarius themes and concepts.

Ayreon is alright. I'm not big on Pain of Salvation. Symphony X destroys both of them!

[Electric Eye]

I wonder how they would react if they should play live (instead of the band who they criticise) in front of people for example...

This is not their task. Musicans compose and play music, critics say about it. First of them are very important for me, the next ones seem to be unnecessary (I mean I can live without them).

[dupinguez]

[quote="khamael

Some of us are also studying music hardly you know?

And with that?
We arent speaking about theory or rhythm errors or playing in the wrong scale...
(on this aspect Strato's records are perfect at 99,99999%), we are speaking about opinions and feelings. But maybe i misunderstood what you wanted to say.[/quote]

In fact, TT said that "critics" were generally made without any knowledge about music and i wanted to point out that we were not all totally ignorant about music. But maybe that's me who misunderstood what he wanted to say

[TimoTolkki]

And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.

OK so we're all dumbasses who are not even able to appreciate music and have opinions about it ? C'mon Timo, this topic wasn't here to say "Blah, Strato-guys suck big time because of that and that.". As it was said before, nothing is perfect on this planet, and I think this thread was created to tell what we dislike in Strato's music and what, in our opinions could make us liking it more. But it was never made to make you change your music or whatever, this is your band, not ours.

So you can have an opinion and I cannot.Funny:)

[Patricia]

I wonder how they would react if they should play live (instead of the band who they criticise) in front of people for example...

This is not their task. Musicans compose and play music, critics say about it. First of them are very important for me, the next ones seem to be unnecessary (I mean I can live without them).

Right, it's not their task. And of course, we can live without them (critics i mean).

Music will rule forever!

[Aresius]

And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.

OK so we're all dumbasses who are not even able to appreciate music and have opinions about it ? C'mon Timo, this topic wasn't here to say "Blah, Strato-guys suck big time because of that and that.". As it was said before, nothing is perfect on this planet, and I think this thread was created to tell what we dislike in Strato's music and what, in our opinions could make us liking it more. But it was never made to make you change your music or whatever, this is your band, not ours.

So you can have an opinion and I cannot.Funny:)

Timo... ofcurse you can give your opinion i think that they didnt understund what you mean

I really must say thanx for your music because you have inspired me in a way that noone did... and your music is in manyways almost perfect but we are just saying little things that are not that cool ore that we dislike. Personally... i say again i love your music but i want more melodic solos dude! jejeje and maybe in your next album you could do a song with you singing.. or at least a bonus track!

no music, no life!

[TimoTolkki]

And as far as the "critics"..well I know I have an extreme view about them, but I think they are not needed at all. They usually have a very biased opinion about the music and very few of them possess the necessary knowledge & experience about music to even make a comment.

OK so we're all dumbasses who are not even able to appreciate music and have opinions about it ? C'mon Timo, this topic wasn't here to say "Blah, Strato-guys suck big time because of that and that.". As it was said before, nothing is perfect on this planet, and I think this thread was created to tell what we dislike in Strato's music and what, in our opinions could make us liking it more. But it was never made to make you change your music or whatever, this is your band, not ours.

So you can have an opinion and I cannot.Funny:)

Timo... ofcurse you can give your opinion i think that they didnt understund what you mean

I really must say thanx for your music because you have inspired me in a way that noone did... and your music is in manyways almost perfect but we are just saying little things that are not that cool ore that we dislike. Personally... i say again i love your music but i want more melodic solos dude! jejeje and maybe in your next album you could do a song with you singing.. or at least a bonus track!

no music, no life!

Thanks! What I wanted to say is, that there is no such a thing as perfect music, because people have different tastes and opinions and see&hear music in many different ways! And they are all right, from their perspectives:) I am not saying that I know how things are. I am saying that I really don´t have any respect for someone who feels it is necessary to criticise any art form. Art is holy and far above "criticism".
Only in my opinion of course. Feel free to start a "metal war", but I would rather prefer to see all the Warriors of Light united for one cause we all love: M E T A L!!!

[Twilightsymphony]

This thread will continue to be interesting as long as no one takes it to serious i think

About music and opinions:
I dont think music should be made to please as many people as possible, we will end up with pop music if we would accept that,
yet criticism and opinions might always be a way to get new ideas or to start some experiments.

[Electric Eye]

I think that the most adequate words for this discussion are those by Alan P. Scott
Talking about music is like dancing about architecture
although they are ascribed sometimes to many other ones.
http://home.pacifier.com/~ascott/they/tamildaa.htm

[TimoTolkki]

I think that the most adequate words for this discussion are those by Alan P. Scott
Talking about music is like dancing about architecture
although they are ascribed sometimes to many other ones.
http://home.pacifier.com/~ascott/they/tamildaa.htm

I´d say it is cool to talk about music! After all this is an internet discussion forum. Although it is a very primitive communication form, but
for the lack of the better it must do now.
In generally, you don´t find it very welcome that strangers unsolited advice is welcomed among artists. Fact is, nobody wants to be critiziced.
Critizice by the way comes from a Greek word and its original meaning is
"to find fault with" Pretty horrible isn´t it.
I guess people just see things very differently. When I hear piece of music, I concentrate (if the particular piece has any interest to me) on the overall feel of the music and if it provokes any feelings in me.
I am almost 40 though and there was a time when I though most of the music is "shit" I had that arrogance too and was very arrogant by fooling myself that I actually possess somekind of "universal knowledge and authority" to determine what is good music and what is bad:)
Is there any truth for me about the critics that has been presented here to my music?
The factual thing for me is that even with the danger to sound an asshole, I have to say that I simply don´t care about what strangers say about my music.
Now if the "advice" comes from someone who I know and respect, like Jens or Koti for example, then I would take it very seriously.
But I am not here to please peoples musical needs and wants. I am here to please my musical needs and wants, that is one of the reasons I became an artist.
However, if someone does by a Stratovarius album or my solo album, I find that very flattering, especially because cds are insanely expensive these days and as we speak, the record companies are getting their asses kicked finally because of their greediness. That is what internet piracy is good for. It brings big record companies on their knees and will result in major attitude shift in music distribution in just a next few years.
Cd as we know it, will disappear in 5 years. We are living interesting times!!

[Livia Dencker]

This thread will continue to be interesting as long as no one takes it to serious i think

You got my point...
This forum, for me, is just fun...
This topic is just fun too... Some people take all serious...
we are all stratofans here... We all love strato songs...
It's like soccer games...
I can complain when my soccer team looses... but no one else can say "your team suck"...

We criticize a little about strato at this topic just 'cause we all love this band...
:banana1:
Am I wrong???

[Equinox]

However, if someone does by a Stratovarius album or my solo album, I find that very flattering, especially because cds are insanely expensive these days and as we speak, the record companies are getting their asses kicked finally because of their greediness. That is what internet piracy is good for. It brings big record companies on their knees and will result in major attitude shift in music distribution in just a next few years.
Cd as we know it, will disappear in 5 years. We are living interesting times!!

Flattered u must be, 'cuz it is not easy to some of us to buy CDs, or even to find it. . . . . and personally I buy CD's 'cuz I want to help u guyz, but sometimes, Timo, they are really expensive, yes, I know like u said it is because of the greed companies, so, because of that I think we have the right to give our opinions, but because YOU make the music, YOU have the right to ignore us. . . so my point is: LIVE AND LET LIVE.. . . like u have said in many songs.

[TimoTolkki]

However, if someone does by a Stratovarius album or my solo album, I find that very flattering, especially because cds are insanely expensive these days and as we speak, the record companies are getting their asses kicked finally because of their greediness. That is what internet piracy is good for. It brings big record companies on their knees and will result in major attitude shift in music distribution in just a next few years.
Cd as we know it, will disappear in 5 years. We are living interesting times!!

Flattered u must be, 'cuz it is not easy to some of us to buy CDs, or even to find it. . . . . and personally I buy CD's 'cuz I want to help u guyz, but sometimes, Timo, they are really expensive, yes, I know like u said it is because of the greed companies, so, because of that I think we have the right to give our opinions, but because YOU make the music, YOU have the right to ignore us. . . so my point is: LIVE AND LET LIVE.. . . like u have said in many songs.

Many thanks for buying our albums!! Live and let live ( and sometimes live and let die) are good advices I think. For sure we all have a freedom of an opinion here. On the other hand life is not a popularity contest, but a journey.

[fifthtea_sausage]

Well I kinda agree with what Timo says.
It takes such an arrogant person to say X is bad.
Music is meant to express what someone is feeling inside.
You can't judge music unless you also know what that person is feeling.

I also agree with saying that he writes music for himself, not for us. But I also think that you wouldn't get anywhere in your musical career unless you did take feedback from us. I mean, maybe for me pounding on my desk every 2 seconds is expressing myself. But will this appeal to the masses? Certainly not. Therefore, it is important to take some criticism from others.

But I think at your level Timo, money isn't a concern. So really it is about expressing yourself. So many questions!

[MaFiaBoY]

First, if you understood my coment as "Strato is bad" or "Strato would be better if is has this and didn't have that", i'm sorry. Perhaps I should have explained myself better but it wasn't AT ALL what I meant. I just pointed out some elements in Strato's music that I don't like. And Strato still being one of my fav bands despite those meas it's really good otherwise.

However, if someone does by a Stratovarius album or my solo album, I find that very flattering, especially because cds are insanely expensive these days and as we speak, the record companies are getting their asses kicked finally because of their greediness. That is what internet piracy is good for. It brings big record companies on their knees and will result in major attitude shift in music distribution in just a next few years.
Cd as we know it, will disappear in 5 years. We are living interesting times!!

No way, you can fin cheap CDs if you search a little. I found Episode, Visions and Destiny at 12€ each and that imo is not expensive at all. Even about 20€ for a CD is imo a reasonale price, if it's a good one, it's worth it. So I don't like piracy for that, the ones who do that take for free what others are paying, if no one were paying, there would be no music to downoload at all, so somewhat those who download a lot take advantage from the other's money, and that's what imo is not correct in all this.

[Patricia]

Well I kinda agree with what Timo says.
It takes such an arrogant person to say X is bad.
Music is meant to express what someone is feeling inside.
You can't judge music unless you also know what that person is feeling.

Yes, i agree. A musician creates for expressing what he/she feels inside. Not only just for pleasing to somebody..
The people are a bit too much demanding sometimes...They want this and this...No..
Let's make the artist.

[Paul]

I have some thoughts about the current CD / labels / piracy etc. situation.
I've been a music fan for about 18 years, and I listen to a lot of 'metal' music as well. For me it is always a special thing to hold a brand new vinyl / CD in my hand . It has magic in it. Nothing can substitute that.
I D/L and copy a lot of music because God's money would not been enough to buy all the albums I'd like, but in the end I always buy an original if I like the music.
About 10-12Euro is the price I pay without second thought for a CD. If it is more expensive, it has to be something I really want to have.
And if you are smart and willing to search you really can find a lot of CD's for this price. I bought all my Strato CD's for no more than 10 or 12 Euro!
For what is good about the agony of the record companies that they either lower the prices, or in some way make the CD giving you more than just the music, like badass artwork, or extra DVD or some other treats. And I like it. (And in many cases, it is the retailer companies and the stores themselves that are making CD's expensive )

[Twilightsymphony]

The major problem for weaker record sales are mainly the prices, imo. I am willing to pay.. well up to 14 euro for a cd which is quite a reasonable price i think. Yet there are often albums with 18-19 euro and i really dont see the point in paying that. It was cheaper before the euro came i think...

Its true though, that there are sources to buy cds cheaper. Most online stores or metal mail orders have good prices i think. Some weeks ago i ordered 12 albums for 10 euro or less each.. thats ok i think.

And a general problem of the bigger record labels: The music which is on tv and radio kinda lost its value i think. Its nothing people can relate to in a deeper way i think. And the whole marketing structure is mainly based on single hits and so on. Less "music" which actually is made by real artists may be an improvement here.
There is a reason why metal or blues or most non-mainstream music fans buy cds more often.

About downloading in general:
Its a great way to find new music. I really found many bands this way. But i think that people should buy cds if they like the music. Its quite amusing if people tell what a great fan they are of xy and dont even have one cd by those bands. Of course the shopping situation is a point here, but if you want to buy an album you are able to.

About digital music: It sucks, i know many people dont really see a difference, but most music which is available is often 128-160 kbit and this isnt exactly a pleasure to listen.

[MaFiaBoY]

I listen to most of my music encoded in 160 kbps and I don't hear any difference from the CD one. Perhaps I don't listen carefully enough. And about the "single hits" thing, metal isn't an exception. See Nemo, Hunting High & Low, As I Am, or other singles taken from metal albums. 99% of the time, you can be sure this is the one that is the most "mainstream" on the album, so sometimes it makes you think that this song was made only to be release das a single and please the MTV crowd. In some shops I even saw Nemo in a single-basic-package sold with the other MTV-things. I for myself don't buy metal-singles for the titletrack, or sometimes I do to hear what it sounds like before buying the album, but rather for the bonus- or live-tracks that are included on it.

[Electric Eye]

Cd as we know it, will disappear in 5 years. We are living interesting times!!

No, that would be terrible. I know, that the tendecy is to separate music from its carrier, but I cannot imagine that. Maybe for the ones, who'll grow up in future, that record's sale system will be convinient and obvious, but I'm sure, those who remember CDs of LPs will never get use to it. It would be terrible, by clicking you pay and download files. This upcoming total dehumanization of our life in not good for me.

For me it is always a special thing to hold a brand new vinyl / CD in my hand . It has magic in it. Nothing can substitute that.

That's what I mean.

I think that if even sale via internet become far more popular than traditional one, companies will still press some CD versions for people like me, Paul, and I'm sure, the majority of you. It's like vinyls, still they are produced and bought, despite they seem like relics of the past.
so, Timo, I would describe our times as an "interesting", not interesting