Has Timo Tolkki run to the end of his course?

[Rebel]

I'm listening to the Elements through Infinite run of albums, and I have to ask, why is it that elements Pt. 2 and Stratovarius were completely devoid of the guitar riffs of songs like Infinity, Speed of Light, Legions, ect...
Is is possible that the drop in quality of Stratovarius music can be attributed to too much "Power" and not enough "Metal"?
It seems like ever since Visions, Timo has been backing more and more into the pocket, can he even write something with a guitar riff like Phoenix anymore? Maybe the change in guitarists will be a good change for Stratovarius.

[Verdades Parias]

well, my favourite album is Elements pt. II, and is true, is more like a power symphonic metal feeling. But It is different in the quest for originality, thats all, for many fans a step backwards. For me, fresh air

The self titled is just bad songs for me

[Rebel]

well, my favourite album is Elements pt. II, and is true, is more like a power symphonic metal feeling. But It is different in the quest for originality, thats all, for many fans a step backwards. For me, fresh air

The self titled is just bad songs for me

I immensely enjoy the self titled album, I also love Elements Pt. 2, but Listen to the intros to Phoenix, Speed of Light, and Legions, they fucking ROCK. They're heavy, in your face, GUITAR RIFFS.
I think Stratovarius lost that, and when that went, there is only so much they could do before the well went dry.

[RazielSR]

well, my favourite album is Elements pt. II, and is true, is more like a power symphonic metal feeling. But It is different in the quest for originality, thats all, for many fans a step backwards. For me, fresh air

The self titled is just bad songs for me

I immensely enjoy the self titled album, I also love Elements Pt. 2, but Listen to the intros to Phoenix, Speed of Light, and Legions, they fucking ROCK. They're heavy, in your face, GUITAR RIFFS.
I think Stratovarius lost that, and when that went, there is only so much they could do before the well went dry.

The same here. The only songs I like from Elements albums are Eagleheart and I walk to my own song, another songs that are ok for me but less are, Dreamweaver, I'm still alive, Liberty, find your own voice and Fantasia.

There's nothing better in this world than songs like Speed of light, Eternity, Legions, Twilight symphony, Phoenix etc, etc.

I will never understand why when a band reach a lot of fame they ALWAYS try to change the direction and turn into comercial shit.
I suppose it is because they don't wanna be repetitive, but the change means : worst band.
There are a lot of bands like this. It's like, "hey, we reached a lot of fame, let's change the direction of our music". I will never understand that. And later, the same band, while seeing this is not the correct way, they try to return to their roots.

[Korppi-]

I will never understand why when a band reach a lot of fame they ALWAYS try to change the direction and turn into comercial shit.

Are you saying that Elements Part I is more commercial than the albums before it? I think it's just the opposite. The only thing that is "commercial" on that album is Eagleheart

[RazielSR]

I will never understand why when a band reach a lot of fame they ALWAYS try to change the direction and turn into comercial shit.

Are you saying that Elements Part I is more commercial than the albums before it? I think it's just the opposite. The only thing that is "commercial" on that album is Eagleheart

No, when talking about commercial I was not talking about stratovarius.

[browneyedgirl]

Well, I may get flamed for this but I don't care, even if its from a hidden Mod/Admin under a false nick:

But, there are people who actually still believe this is all a publicity stunt. Tolkki will have his RR for a couple years, Stratovarius will settle debts, then there will be a big REUNION in which fans will sweep everything under the rug&be so gullibly grateful that Stratovarius is totally together again.
Yes, that is still the message some folks are posting in blogs&such.

Another thing, letting these DEMOS out was a great marketing ploy. People who would not buy RR otherwise will gladly purchase the EP version to hear Kotipelto's vocals. (Me included)
Smart. VERY Smart.

[RazielSR]

Well, sometimes I'm still wanting to believe this is all publicity stunt, but hey...this time this is getting to far I think.

I thought it was all publicity on April, but I don't think the same right now. This is what I want. But now, I think this is clear. I mean, Tolkki will have RR and the other guys will stay here making music, but I don't know if they are gonna use the same name or not.

They don't have now 25 years old and they can't wait 5 years to see what happens.

[scorp]

Well, I may get flamed for this but I don't care, even if its from a hidden Mod/Admin under a false nick:

But, there are people who actually still believe this is all a publicity stunt. Tolkki will have his RR for a couple years, Stratovarius will settle debts, then there will be a big REUNION in which fans will sweep everything under the rug&be so gullibly grateful that Stratovarius is totally together again.
Yes, that is still the message some folks are posting in blogs&such.

Another thing, letting these DEMOS out was a great marketing ploy. People who would not buy RR otherwise will gladly purchase the EP version to hear Kotipelto's vocals. (Me included)
Smart. VERY Smart.

Quoting TT's last statement:

As the big money entered the picture, so also entered highly questionable methods to market the band using whatever means possible. Due to legal reasons it is not possible to go into details, but I just say this: whatever marketing trick was used at that time, everybody was part of it: the whole band, the management and the record company. And I repeat: the whole band including Timo Kotipelto and Jφrg Michael. And I can prove this and they know it. And one day I might just do that. Maybe soon. Maybe in a book. It was all this what ultimately lead to my total nervous breakdown in Spring 2004.

After this statement, I wouldn't be surprised about anything concerning Stratovarius.

[RazielSR]

Well, I may get flamed for this but I don't care, even if its from a hidden Mod/Admin under a false nick:

But, there are people who actually still believe this is all a publicity stunt. Tolkki will have his RR for a couple years, Stratovarius will settle debts, then there will be a big REUNION in which fans will sweep everything under the rug&be so gullibly grateful that Stratovarius is totally together again.
Yes, that is still the message some folks are posting in blogs&such.

Another thing, letting these DEMOS out was a great marketing ploy. People who would not buy RR otherwise will gladly purchase the EP version to hear Kotipelto's vocals. (Me included)
Smart. VERY Smart.

Quoting TT's last statement:

As the big money entered the picture, so also entered highly questionable methods to market the band using whatever means possible. Due to legal reasons it is not possible to go into details, but I just say this: whatever marketing trick was used at that time, everybody was part of it: the whole band, the management and the record company. And I repeat: the whole band including Timo Kotipelto and Jφrg Michael. And I can prove this and they know it. And one day I might just do that. Maybe soon. Maybe in a book. It was all this what ultimately lead to my total nervous breakdown in Spring 2004.

After this statement, I wouldn't be surprised about anything concerning Stratovarius.

Scorp, but do you really think this is all publicity?

[icecab21]

I don’t see how breaking up a band for years is a good marketing scheme. They would have to assume that when they join up again they would make up the lost income and more. A two year break up would need to generate a three years income when they come back. A couple years can’t really be considered a breakup CD wise considering how many bands release CDs ever 3 to 4 years. A healthy band that wanted to be together would not do this. It’s not planned that the band had a falling out. While reunions have generated money they have not made the same as the constant stream of money a band would have hand had they stayed popular and stayed together. If this is supposed to be a cruel joke for money then it sure is strange. I don’t think they are all sitting together laughing about calling each other greedy Faust’s and not passionate about the music. If they really wanted money they would start making music for a bigger market.

[RazielSR]

I don’t see how breaking up a band for years is a good marketing scheme. They would have to assume that when they join up again they would make up the lost income and more. A two year break up would need to generate a three years income when they come back. A couple years can’t really be considered a breakup CD wise considering how many bands release CDs ever 3 to 4 years. A healthy band that wanted to be together would not do this. It’s not planned that the band had a falling out. While reunions have generated money they have not made the same as the constant stream of money a band would have hand had they stayed popular and stayed together. If this is supposed to be a cruel joke for money then it sure is strange. I don’t think they are all sitting together laughing about calling each other greedy Faust’s and not passionate about the music. If they really wanted money they would start making music for a bigger market.

+1

[browneyedgirl]

Whether it makes sense, or not. Many people still believe this all to be a publicity stunt, and that in a few years there will be a "reunion". Nobody can control what other people think, so I guess some people stubbornly have that point of view about being a reunion some day!

Like several people have said, who knows anymore?

[Burning Reflection]

I'm listening to the Elements through Infinite run of albums, and I have to ask, why is it that elements Pt. 2 and Stratovarius were completely devoid of the guitar riffs of songs like Infinity, Speed of Light, Legions, ect...
Is is possible that the drop in quality of Stratovarius music can be attributed to too much "Power" and not enough "Metal"?
It seems like ever since Visions, Timo has been backing more and more into the pocket, can he even write something with a guitar riff like Phoenix anymore? Maybe the change in guitarists will be a good change for Stratovarius.

ummm...I think some of the riffs in the elements albums were some of tolkki's best. Phoenix, Speed of Light and Legions are all pretty much the same riff in different keys and paterns.

[icecab21]

You’re just being a messenger so I’m not trying to shoot the messenger. if they change their opinions and get back together I see that as their lives turning in a new direction where they want to play again and I cant really call that a stunt. A change of heart is hard for me to see as a stunt. The only other option would be that they all are just lying and I really don’t get that feeling from this, I think the feelings are genuine. Should they choose to do something down the road I will welcome it but in the mean time I will enjoy the music from both bands. That does give me a good idea for a tour with stratovarius and revolution renaissance that would be really funny to see.

[Elements]

Admin under a false nick.

......yeah.

[Beast_Pete]

Well, sometimes I'm still wanting to believe this is all publicity stunt...

I don't. -.- this was enough for me not to want the old Stratovarius to continue together anymore. Stratovarius before 2005 seemed to be true, but it definitely would not be true anymore after 2007.

[icecab21]

If they really want a publicity stunt they could have Britney Spears, Paris Hilton and Miley Cyrus each sing on a single and have one come out every month.

[scorp]

I don’t see how breaking up a band for years is a good marketing scheme. They would have to assume that when they join up again they would make up the lost income and more. A two year break up would need to generate a three years income when they come back. A couple years can’t really be considered a breakup CD wise considering how many bands release CDs ever 3 to 4 years. A healthy band that wanted to be together would not do this. It’s not planned that the band had a falling out. While reunions have generated money they have not made the same as the constant stream of money a band would have hand had they stayed popular and stayed together. If this is supposed to be a cruel joke for money then it sure is strange. I don’t think they are all sitting together laughing about calling each other greedy Faust’s and not passionate about the music. If they really wanted money they would start making music for a bigger market.

I don't think that breaking up the band for years is a good marketing scheme either. That's not what I would see logical.
What I'm going to write here is not what I believe that is true but just a version of the story that would make sense.

1. Strato sign a huge contract with Noise/Sanctuary
2. They decide to use "highly questionable methods to market the band using whatever means possible[...]everybody was part of it[...]the whole band including Timo Kotipelto and Jφrg Michael" (quoting parts of TT's last statement without changing the meaning of the quotes). That could mean that the fist-fight was one of those methods
3. TT has a nervous breakdown and all the plans change.
4. They have legal problems with Sanctuary due to the above mentioned problems.
5. JK leaves the band and (maybe for any other reason which I don't know) Strato have to pay a huge amount of money to Sanctuary(?). Sanctuary doesn't let them to continue as Strato without paying their "dept" to them. Quoting TT's last statement: "Sanctuary found out that Jari signed the contract but is not in the band anymore. Bang! No money"
6. They try to go to another label, recording a demo but they're blocked legaly to continue as Strato. Quoting Strato's first reply "Other sad facts remain. The legal fight left us without a way to make a new album, and financially strapped"
7. TT "ends" Strato and create a new band to release the songs under another label (which would be allowed legaly)
8. Strato get some money from the demos and the fans manage to listen to someting new by them
9. The legal case is solved.
10. The reunion occurs

So, I repeat, I'm NOT saying that this is the truth! I'm only saying that it would make sense to try to solve the case this way but I'm not in any Stratoguy's mind to know what's really going on, neither I have the contacts. It's also logic that after point 5 stuff just turned to shit and the break-up is as TT or the rest of Strato claim it to be, for real.

Btw, I didn't understand finally... Did the band have to pay the label a "dept" or they just lost the money from the contract?

As for Britney, or Hilton, I think it would just make fans sad and wouldn't make them more interested in the band. Neither Britney fans would be interested in Strato I guess While in the case of a reunion (and that would be true for any band I guess) fans might be sad in the beginning but they're very enthusiastic for the reunion.

Anyway.

[icecab21]

I said the girls names because that will give press that will reach around the world and be tabloid heaven in gossip markets worldwide. That would give them the potential of millions of one time buyers and they might retain some of those. I really think that some stratovarius songs would make pop hits if they were made into mass USA market songs. Hell, Cyrus has a movie out that sold over 70 million and that was just a concert that they taped.

In that scenario it’s the record company that is a bitch and the fans and the band are the victims which is rather true no matter what. That scenario is more about digging themselves out of a hole than a planned marketing same to bring in the most profit. If it’s all about industry and making money they really should not been power metal they would be much better of writing hit songs from genres that have millions of potential customers. Money wise its better to be a small fish in a huge sea than a huge fish with little water.

perhaps it sounds better being called a recovery plan than a publicity scheme. there are easy ways to get more free advertising.

[scorp]

I said the girls names because that will give press that will reach around the world and be tabloid heaven in gossip markets worldwide. That would give them the potential of millions of one time buyers and they might retain some of those. I really think that some stratovarius songs would make pop hits if they were made into mass USA market songs. Hell, Cyrus has a movie out that sold over 70 million and that was just a concert that they taped.

In that scenario it’s the record company that is a bitch and the fans and the band are the victims which is rather true no matter what. That scenario is more about digging themselves out of a hole than a planned marketing same to bring in the most profit. If it’s all about industry and making money they really should not been power metal they would be much better of writing hit songs from genres that have millions of potential customers. Money wise its better to be a small fish in a huge sea than a huge fish with little water.

perhaps it sounds better being called a recovery plan than a publicity scheme. there are easy ways to get more free advertising.

Disagree with your opinion about a possible cooperation with Britney and the rest but I agree about the rest.

[icecab21]

Im not serious about them doing that but I do think it would bring headlines. Everything Britney does get hours of TV time and headline space and bog space in at least the USA. It seems in the USA people live for this headline gossip kind of stuff and the mainstream gossip market seems bigger in the usa than anywhere else. The money generated might only be for the media but it would stimulate someone’s economy.

[stratohawk]

Well, sometimes I'm still wanting to believe this is all publicity stunt...

I don't. -.- this was enough for me not to want the old Stratovarius to continue together anymore. Stratovarius before 2005 seemed to be true, but it definitely would not be true anymore after 2007.

Yes, same here. This was simply too much. Enough of that. If they are not able to talk to each other reasonable, in dramatic contrast to the message of their former music (peace, love, respect, ... - it sounds so fucking ludicrous after all this mess, though for me their music will continue to transport these values also in the future), they should never touch their legacy again.

@BEG: You know what? That wouldn't surprise me. I don't say that it's a publicity joke. But we all know about countless bands that were at odds with each other, and after years, those differences simply seemed to have vanished into nothing.

[MikeWacho]

well at least that means that maybe in many years we could be seeing them playing live the RR songs XD

the recovery thing seems logical, or we can twist it and make some other arrangements...

[scorp]

Im not serious about them doing that but I do think it would bring headlines. Everything Britney does get hours of TV time and headline space and bog space in at least the USA. It seems in the USA people live for this headline gossip kind of stuff and the mainstream gossip market seems bigger in the usa than anywhere else. The money generated might only be for the media but it would stimulate someone’s economy.

I understood that you were not serious about it but still I disagree about the aftermaths of such (hypothetical) actions. That's all. You might be right. I just don't think that it always works like that in the industry.

Anyway, Britney, Paris and other US pop-stars/celebrities are not the main problem of the case

[Rebel]

I think for another Stratovarius album to be a success, we need double bass drum pedal strings, an Against The Wind-like performance from TK, some energetic basslines, strong, lead keyboards, and keyboard solos, and HEAVY guitar riffs, HEAVY DRIVING guitar riffs. The only one close to that on New Era was "We Are Magic"

[RazielSR]

Yes, I'm scared if they don't think the same. I hope they return to their roots.

[stratohawk]

Yes, I'm scared if they don't think the same. I hope they return to their roots.

In what kind of world are you living? Stratovarius are no more. We can be happy if TT and the remaining members continue to make music separately.

[RazielSR]

Yes, I'm scared if they don't think the same. I hope they return to their roots.

In what kind of world are you living? Stratovarius are no more. We can be happy if TT and the remaining members continue to make music separately.

You know, it's hard to see.

[StratoTimo]

Yes, I'm scared if they don't think the same. I hope they return to their roots.

In what kind of world are you living? Stratovarius are no more. We can be happy if TT and the remaining members continue to make music separately.

No... That is the last thing that what we want to see after this what is going on!
Tolkki has his band and rest of the guys have their band