A NECESSARY ANALOGY

[browneyedgirl]

I'd like to say that whenever anyone goes on&on about Tolkki in this forum, even if its in support of him, you are(whether you realize it or not)disrespecting Jens and Stratovarius! Jens himself has said something to that effect. I will give an analogy that, I'm sure, occurs often in the real world.

For example, a guy(or lady-gender is not really the point)gets a divorce from his spouse of many years, and tries to start a fresh new life. BUT, everytime he meets a new girl his family and friends ruin it(intentionally or not)by always bringing up the past. Rubbing his nose in it. Half the time bragging on the Ex's good qualities, the other half of the time slagging her.
Think about that analogy and how that feels to the fella, and even to the new girl in his life.
This happened to me personally with my now-Ex-sister-in-law who was best friends with my husbands Ex. Finally, we both had to sit her down&tell her:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/qsdmpnqf.gif

Well, to shut up, basicly.

Now, apply this analogy to the Stratovarius situation, and Tolkki. I know some of you will choose not to listen or understand what I said. It will go right over your head. But, I'm sure Jens and the band understand it quite well.

This is the STRATOVARIUS Forum, not the RR forum. Now show Jens&the other guys some respect.

[icecab21]

This is the stratovarius forum. tt wrote the majority of the music of a band called stratovarius. Naturally, a discussion about the music of stratovarius might involve tt.

[Lurdi]

This is the stratovarius forum. tt wrote the majority of the music of a band called stratovarius. Naturally, a discussion about the music of stratovarius might involve tt.

The thing is that we are currently talking about anything but music.

[browneyedgirl]

This is the stratovarius forum. tt wrote the majority of the music of a band called stratovarius. Naturally, a discussion about the music of stratovarius might involve tt.

Notice I did not say "music" I said "TT".

Of course we should discuss the MUSIC, that was part of the whole point of the post.
I never said we should never mention his name ever once in a while.

[JensJohansson]

The good news is that you guys decide yourselves what you talk or don't talk about. :)

Which means a message like the one on the top of this thread is OK too.

At the moment I prefer to be disrespected slightly than to have suspicions that we are trying to sweep certain issues under the carpet.

What threads you reply to and give your attention is of course your choice.

Like i have promised so many times and not kept, I might change the organization (like, topic organization) and some technical things here at some point. Ignore lists, better banning, better checks and balances, phpbb3, etc.

But it's not gonna be more heavily moderated than it is now. I'd post some new forum rules but what's the point, they could be summed up at the moment as "hands off with a pinch of common sense". (That's one beautiful thing with having the stratovarius.com server in the US. Fullest extent of freedom of speech on earth, backed by huge army and nuclear arsenal..)

[browneyedgirl]

I don't think anyone has to worry about amything being swept under the rug as long as posters like Demir and Strato Masa are about. But, they do keep the forum from becoming boring, I suppose.

What is phpbb3? And how would that be different than this forums format?
Maybe I can just Google that.

[NeverendingAbyss]

As long as topics like Yeah or the Land Before Time stay put and doesn't spread throughout the forum, we are fine.

[hiro23]

I have no problem with people speaking their mind as long as it's done in a respectful manner.

if you disagree with someone you can easily tell them that in a good way instead of calling them all sorts of middle school type names.

that would be the only thing I ask.

[thefreeone]

This is the stratovarius forum. tt wrote the majority of the music of a band called stratovarius. Naturally, a discussion about the music of stratovarius might involve tt.

Now gettin serious( i know im not serious most of the time...) im sorry icecab but WTF? u feel atacked when somenone talks about TT, spcecialy when BEG says something that is truly smart... we should leave the past behind....
"yeah we should talk about TT because he wrote 95% of the music and its Stratovarius soul no matter what u think.. im trying to lick his ass", just leave him alone or leave us and go to RR forum and talk everything u want to talk about him.. defend him etc, etc..

believe me i know most of the time i dont post smart things(the yeah topic was revived beacouse i grabed it from the trash and wrote mas puto vos and some other nonsense topics... ) but as i said try TO CALM DOWN! u are not TT and you dont have a reason to fell atacked and as BEG said we are not helping Strato neither TT because im sure he is trying to move on so are the other guys... you are not doing anything good by making more controversy.(even if u are permitted to do so).. SO PLEASE WE MUST STOP IT .....and well keep on!

[AAAAAAAAAA]

The good news is that you guys decide yourselves what you talk or don't talk about.

Which means a message like the one on the top of this thread is OK too.

At the moment I prefer to be disrespected slightly than to have suspicions that we are trying to sweep certain issues under the carpet.

What threads you reply to and give your attention is of course your choice.

I must say that I am partial to your "laissez-fair" approach to the forum (if not out of principle, out of spite for the overzealous moderation at the RR site). But, if I may play devil's advocate (no, its not a metallica song), since it would probably help me understand why the forum is run the way it is:

Every forum has some kind of purpose, and let's assume the mission of this forum is to provide a public environment in which people can discuss stratovarius. Suppose I make a thread entitled "THE USA SUCKS!!!" and insight some controversy. The heated debates begin as tensions flair, ultimately leading to fights and bruised egos. Some people distance themselves from others, and some people leave the forum altogether.

Lo and behold- the forum is no longer successfully fulfilling its one original function: to allow Stratovarius fans to discuss their favorite band.

[icecab21]

There is an other section that many of these topics belong in.

The RR forum has the same rules as many other forums including Kotipelto forum.

Many non musical events are related to music since all events of the past lead to the circumstances of the present. Without TT we don't have this stratovarius that we have today and we miss out on the music these guys are creating for the future.


Ill put one option

"TT and his music with stratovarius"

This could go in the stratovarius section


"I hate tt and have to call him names"

This could go under the other section

[JensJohansson]

Suppose I make a thread entitled "THE USA SUCKS!!!" and insight some controversy. The heated debates begin as tensions flair, ultimately leading to fights and bruised egos. Some people distance themselves from others, and some people leave the forum altogether.

Lo and behold- the forum is no longer successfully fulfilling its one original function: to allow Stratovarius fans to discuss their favorite band.

It's an interesting question.

Then the definition of "the board's function" will be expanded by the users themselves.

The first key would be a gentle thread recategorization... such posts would belong in "other" and not the band or music related area.

The other key in having that work might be more refined individual controls for what you want to see, and what you don't want to see, on the user and thread level. It boggles the mind that simple mechanisms like kill- and score files which evolved on Usenet 20 years ago still are optional features on a popular web based forum software like phpbb2. (phpbb3 has some sort of rudimentary ignore list)

The "old killfile system", even though i never developed it completely, was a step in that direction. In the end that mean that truly abusive posters just were not allowed to post as often, it was sort of a soft ban with a gradient curve determined by the community's kill files. It had some problems that i am sure could be solved more cleverly and transparently nowadays. At the moment traffic here is down so I'm not bothering.

Interestingly I just saw somewhere that 4chan.org was taking steps toward automatic self-moderation as well.

A last point: people who post "the USA sucks", and people who take offense at such posts are already very distanced from each other. At some point obsessively political or religious posts purely meant to disrupt or annoy would rise to the level of "nuisance" and the posts and user would just quietly disappear. I do have a home made "delete by user ID" utility in place (it is also missing in phpbb2, mass post deletions are only at thread level)

[exe knight]

This is the stratovarius forum. tt wrote the majority of the music of a band called stratovarius. Naturally, a discussion about the music of stratovarius might involve tt.

Now gettin serious( i know im not serious most of the time...) im sorry icecab but WTF? u feel atacked when somenone talks about TT, spcecialy when BEG says something that is truly smart... we should leave the past behind....

WTF yourself, Freezemobile hasn't said he felt attacked by the post, I can see that you feel attacked by propably every post of his, but still that's just plain stupid to accuse him of random stuff like that.

[RazielSR]

I was wondering...

...about the origin of the "forum". Not the internet one, I mean the Forum Romanum.

wondering about...

Were there ancient spammers?

Were there ancient moderators?

[Stratowarius]

What virgins??? Here???

[RazielSR]

...

[Stratowarius]

Where have all the virgins gone? They nowadays only live in muslims deathdreams-but there they are about 70 at the same time and that is maybe a good reasen to kill yourself. But I think that they-the muslims- will meet a big surprise when they got there. Virgins are probably equally unknown there as here.

[browneyedgirl]

@thefreeone, thank you. Just as I expected. You are among the few who really choose to understand what I meant!
@hiro23, thats what I meant in my post, too!

http://www.phpbb.com/about/features/

Very interesting website!;)

Some of the killfile options are more "forum-clique" based, but the one Kotipelto uses is good.

[Beast_Pete]

I doubt that Jens really has any problems with people mentioning TT. I mean, big problems. Obviously he does not like to read about him anymore, but what can he do? And it's not a divorce how TT himself described. They didn't have sex, and no, don't get me wrong, but really, it's not the same. When you have sex with someone, everything gets different, you are connected physically, so it's obvious that it will heart more if you go seperate ways.

And I agree. People need to let this thing go with TT. I am bored of this shit going around people attacking TT, others that defend him even a little get bashed to hell. Who the fuck cares anymore? The past happenings cannot be changed, and noone should be hated for that, I'm sure that TT already gets enough bad for his bad choice of actions, and I doubt that by bashing him anything really would change. I would rather concentrate on the upcoming Strato album, the little "demos" we had the chance to already listen to are really promising.

[AGAG]

Well, they played together for around 12 years, that kind of equals a one night stand, don't you think?

[hiro23]

To BEG:I wasn't referring to you in my post, You've actually have been very respectful and I really haven't heard you bash anyone.

I was agreeing with you that this whole "your either on this side or that side" bullshit needs to stop.
I too would rather we focus on the music and leave this ugly episode behind.

[icecab21]

All of begs and "over your head" stuff is very reaspectful.

[stratohawk]

And I once again thank our friend, the Beast from Hungary for his reasonable and moderate post. There's nothing to add from my side.

[thefreeone]

This is the stratovarius forum. tt wrote the majority of the music of a band called stratovarius. Naturally, a discussion about the music of stratovarius might involve tt.

Now gettin serious( i know im not serious most of the time...) im sorry icecab but WTF? u feel atacked when somenone talks about TT, spcecialy when BEG says something that is truly smart... we should leave the past behind....

WTF yourself, Freezemobile hasn't said he felt attacked by the post, I can see that you feel attacked by propably every post of his, but still that's just plain stupid to accuse him of random stuff like that.

im not refering to this post exactly... but u know that icecar (most of the time) lick TT as.. and more on RR forum than here... and always is making controverse of something thats not necesary...

[browneyedgirl]

The past happenings cannot be changed, and noone should be hated for that, and I doubt that by bashing him anything really would change.

EXACTLY! You got it too, Pete!

I think when this whole situation came about, alot of us were unhappy and confused about it. And,expresed ourselves, some more than other.
But, its time to put all that aside&try to move on. Life always changes, and we have to adjust, and change with it. We don't always get what we want in life, but many times life suprises us and we do wind up liking what we get after all.

[hiro23]

The past happenings cannot be changed, and noone should be hated for that, and I doubt that by bashing him anything really would change.

EXACTLY! You got it too, Pete!

I think when this whole situation came about, alot of us were unhappy and confused about it. And,expresed ourselves, some more than other.
But, its time to put all that aside&try to move on. Life always changes, and we have to adjust, and change with it. We don't always get what we want in life, but many times life suprises us and we do wind up liking what we get after all.

I agree 100%, let's just look toward the future with these guys instead of constantly dwelling on the past.

[JensJohansson]

I doubt that Jens really has any problems with people mentioning TT.

I'm a bit bored with it too.

I only have a fundamental problem with people copypasting stuff TT wrote in order to perpetuate frustrating and never-ending discussions that don't make any sense. Regarding all the band name issues, legal rights, morality, the past, etc, the discussion really is long over.

It's very sad because in a way I still love the guy, but you can't carry on a meaningful discussion with someone who is bent on hurting you and who redefines his whole view of reality every other day or so based on what makes him feel slightly better that day.

Partly because TT has a psychiatric condition he becomes a very effective energy vampire. I don't want that here. For me it's a selfish issue, but I know the other guys don't disagree with me. I explained that story somewhere else at length.

I'll lock this now ..