DragonForce... ?

[hiro23]

All of them are musicians regardless of whether someone likes their music or not, yes it is fast and yes it is repetitive at times however they've managed to turn it into a winning formula which has worked for them.

We can't hate them because they've learned how to be successful, if the music isn't your cup of tea that's fine I'll accept it but just hating a band because they are popular is not legit.

[CES]

Not sure anyone is really hating on them because they're popular. I for one just can't stand the songs because I feel they are poorly written, overindulgent (a damn difficult feat considering they play PM) and lacking emotion.

I liken them to Malmsteen: very technical, very impressive but very cold and sterile.

[icecab21]

I just don't think unemotional people play like dragonforce does. from shows they are all over the place and smiling, making faces that people only make when they are in an emotional trance, and creating a high energy atmosphere and the show involves a lot of crowd interaction. I have never seen malmsteen with a black stare on his face, all his work that I have seen has him highly involved with what he is doing and in trancelike states.

[CES]

No no, the artists have fun while playing the solos, don't get me wrong. I'm talking about the solos themselves. Perhaps I'm just really weird but I like a solo to fit the song and to flow with it.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Their songs don't have much flow, no. At least I don't think so... especially their later ones. To me, they're deteriorating. Seems like they're running out of ideas with the style they're trying to maintain.

[icecab21]

For me they put too many ideas into some of the songs. 3 different verse types 1 prechourus 2 different chorus 2 bridges 6 different solo types all in the same song. They could just settle for 1 verse 1 prechourus 1 chorus 1 bridge 30 seconds of solo and make 3-5 minute songs. I kind of think they put 12 albums in 4 if they just rearranged some things.

[Mormegil]

For me they put too many ideas into some of the songs. 3 different verse types 1 prechourus 2 different chorus 2 bridges 6 different solo types all in the same song. They could just settle for 1 verse 1 prechourus 1 chorus 1 bridge 30 seconds of solo and make 3-5 minute songs. I kind of think they put 12 albums in 4 if they just rearranged some things.

Blind Guardian does that too and it works perfectly for them.

[stratodan1990]

and what about live???!?!?

At least Stratovarius and most other power metal bands can play their instruments

[icecab21]

So can dragonforce. They did not make any more mistakes than stratovarius did when i saw them.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

No, I don't give a shit whether they do or don't alter their playing speed or perform live. All I honestly care about is that I find the music enjoyable to listen to with a certain embodiment of power that I personally listen to these sorts of bands in order to find.

Live performances are horribly overrated.

[stratodan1990]

So can dragonforce. They did not make any more mistakes than stratovarius did when i saw them.

They did when I saw them. And I've seen them twice. Both in different years. But off the point, they're still good, but live is something they really need to work on in my opinion

[icecab21]

To say they can't play the instruments is rather an exaggeration though. It's really a different kind of music than the kind that stratoarius plays anyways. I know I heard mistakes from the guitarists, but I also heard some flawless sections. I can't recall any time the drummer bass and keyboard player messed up though and the singer messed up around the same amount that kotipelto messed up. I still think I would need to hear the guys playing separately to really judge what playing levels they are at. Stratovarius as a band does not show the most out of anyone’s talent and dragonforce does not either. Apart some talent fest, that’s really not something I need to enjoy music and I don’t like that people have to insult others that are trying to learn how to play instruments just because they have not reached certain levels. Obviously I would recommend stratovarius as the more serious and deeper band, but I would also say that I think dragonforce is a more playful and fun band, they were completely different experiences. I also have to say I think dragonforce has some really inspiring ballads for me that do a lot for me so it’s funny to hear all these comparisons that don’t account for the emotional reactions that people can receive from the music.

[hiro23]

No live performance is going to be exactly the same, if your expecting that well then wait another 20 or so years when robots will be doing music

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

I don't know if I'd say serious and deep, personally... more so than DragonForce, but my key reason for loving Stratovarius is the simple but effective melodies they manage to make use of. It's among the most melodic music I've heard, to say the least... but as far as the lyrics, solos, and non chorus/verse areas usually go I'm not as excited in most cases.

Symphony X tends to be the exact opposite in my book. Deep and obscure, but fantastic lyrics... but if you try to sing or play their music without at least a warm-up session, you're utterly fucked. Virtually all of the classical-inspired chords and progressions they use are so obscure that they're incredibly difficult to imitate... they flow well, but they don't quite have the kind of memorable melodies Stratovarius is recognizable for. In any case, both of them are fantastic bands and I have a difficult time deciding between the two on a common basis.

I wholeheartedly agree with your earlier post, Icecab, about DragonForce's trying to fit too many progressions into each part of their songs, though.

[NeonVomit]

No, I don't give a shit whether they do or don't alter their playing speed or perform live. All I honestly care about is that I find the music enjoyable to listen to with a certain embodiment of power that I personally listen to these sorts of bands in order to find.

Live performances are horribly overrated.

Did you just reply to yourself?

Live performances are pretty important for most bands to be taken seriously though. I can think of Shadow Gallery as the only real exception to that.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

To be taken seriously by some people. Myself being one exception.

And I was responding to Stratodan, I think. ;P

[icecab21]

For me, simple lyrics say the same thing as complex lyrics just in a different way. I guess some of the simple lyrics are ones that brush the surface or be more open ended questions and more complex can be a more depth view that can be appealing as well but for me they both have strengths and weaknesses. I think a lot of stratovarius lyrics are about fundamental issues of mankind such as biological evolution and the connections of beings in this world. I do think the more complex lyrics of progressive bands touch on the same golden rules yet in different forms of communication. Since different people respond do different things, I think it’s a great thing that we have bands with a whole verity of ways to present some of the fundamental issues. I would have to say I find stratovarius lyrics more natural than some progressive bands. In moments of emotion, I usually say some rather basic things rather than elaborating on stories or crafting complex poetry.

[NeverendingAbyss]

gay
(no further description required)

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

I think you mean variety. Second time you've used the word verity. ;P

And I'm trying to be leniant but I'm rather annoyed with your seemingly lumping all humans into a single psychological niche, much more so one that I'm not a part of. While I believe (and am confident that) the entire concept is objective, I've avoided bringing it up in order to divert from starting another argument on human psychology/philosophy.

As for the lyrics, everyone has their own personal taste, I just don't usually find Stratovarius' lyrics to be exceptional... however, there's always those like Destiny, Visions, Infinity, Soul of a Vagabond, etc... which I still consider to be a great deal above the bar.

[icecab21]

My lump is that all humans are different and that there are different ways to expirence things.

[stratodan1990]

...however, I still generally prefer Strato and would anyday
and they have been around before I was even born, and alot of others on the forum

[mayhem-for-all]

Why is it that with just Dragonforce people start to talk about how the song structures should be?
I mean let them do what they wnat to do. They are being different is that wrong?

[icecab21]

I was just using an example of why the structures are not "all the same" like some people love to say. also a little note of me liking songs to be only a couple of pieces since I think there are a lot of progressive bands that have three 30 second pieces that I like in these 17 minute pieces . I think all people should do what they want for their own reasons and be their own band.

[hiro23]

I noticed the same thing and I laugh at it, when it comes to other power metal bands people seem to not care about how they play however you get into a conversation about Dragonforce then everybody starts becoming experts on how songs structures should be.

I still say it's because of their popularity, I swear if these guys were still an underground sensation these same people would be saying what a great sounding band they were.

[mayhem-for-all]

I was just using an example of why the structures are not "all the same" like some people love to say. also a little note of me liking songs to be only a couple of pieces since I think there are a lot of progressive bands that have three 30 second pieces that I like in these 17 minute pieces . I think all people should do what they want for their own reasons and be their own band.

I didin't respond because of that it would annoy me much. it is just weird that when people start talking about DF everyone seems to be a pro and discuss so techincal stuff that Im out and this is just with DF and those people won't talk like that about any other band.


Another thing I hate about people complaining about all of the bands being either not different enough and copying the genre or the past works and then they complain about changes.

Before Sonata Arctica released Unia they were complained on using too musch double bass and too similar drumming on their works. After Unia everyone begged them to return them to old stuff and no one complained on the drumming in their past works.
Still Unia wasn't disapointing afterall just different and in my opinnion (and the majority of the sonata arctica forum) their best album.

And then there are bands like Excalion who are being criticised because some say they are copying others styles and bring nothing new to the genre.
Come on should every band form their own genre and guard it from copycats so that they would be original and the one and only band in that genre so they couldn't be compared or anything?

[hiro23]

I was just using an example of why the structures are not "all the same" like some people love to say. also a little note of me liking songs to be only a couple of pieces since I think there are a lot of progressive bands that have three 30 second pieces that I like in these 17 minute pieces . I think all people should do what they want for their own reasons and be their own band.

I didin't respond because of that it would annoy me much. it is just weird that when people start talking about DF everyone seems to be a pro and discuss so techincal stuff that Im out and this is just with DF and those people won't talk like that about any other band.


Another thing I hate about people complaining about all of the bands being either not different enough and copying the genre or the past works and then they complain about changes.

Before Sonata Arctica released Unia they were complained on using too musch double bass and too similar drumming on their works. After Unia everyone begged them to return them to old stuff and no one complained on the drumming in their past works.
Still Unia wasn't disapointing afterall just different and in my opinnion (and the majority of the sonata arctica forum) their best album.

And then there are bands like Excalion who are being criticised because some say they are copying others styles and bring nothing new to the genre.
Come on should every band form their own genre and guard it from copycats so that they would be original and the one and only band in that genre so they couldn't be compared or anything?

Amen brother

[icecab21]

I’m looking at reviews of other bands that members have been in. Apparently those bands don’t have people coming to say the guys can’t play the instruments.

[hiro23]

You see, this tends to prove out my theory that people only bash on them because they are famous, as I said before if they were an underground band people wouldn't dissect them as much.

[icecab21]

The guys have been in bands like heavenly ,power quest, and bal sagoth that are not so underground.

[Xelrog T. Apocalypse]

Of course fewer people would bash on them if they weren't popular. Because fewer people would know of their existence. The only reason the scale appears tipped (but isn't) is because their fanbase is so enormous that their minority overpowers other bands' majorities.

Think about it. If the scale were really set up so that more people loathed DragonForce than did like them... would they be so damn popular?

In any case, I was never making any generalizations (not to mention I can't understand a WORD of your horribly disorganized and typo-prone post, mayhem), just saying that I don't care for the direction they've been taking with their newer songs in terms of the structure. I'm saying I, as a person, would most likely enjoy their music more if they limited themselves a bit. It's no universal fact that 'they would be better if they did this and that' because, again, it's all objective.