The Ultimate Battle

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:35 am

each forum is going to have its band win if all three forums did this.

nefertari · Post by **nefertari** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:17 pm

It is very hard to compare Polaris with CO`s Gather the Faithful. They both are very good...My vote goes for Polaris

Intiaani · Post by **Intiaani** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:49 pm

Burning Reflection wrote:There's nothing I don't like about Cain's offering. It's over all power metal with blends of other types of music tastefully arranged with climactic lyrics and composition. The vocal melodies are brilliant, I love Jani's solos and his right hand rhythms.

Only that the songs, the music itself, is mostly generic as hell.

Sorry for not putting AoA in the poll though. I think it might have one or two votes already.

Still, I merely thought of leaving Polaris out and let the two versions of Sonata Arctica have their own race in here. It was easy for me though to vote Polaris, but there should be no denying that it wins - this is Stratoforum anyway. I'm more interested, though, in GtF vs. TDOG.

It looks like the Faithful is winning at the moment.

UnaInZodiac · Post by **UnaInZodiac** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:03 pm

I voted for CO. Polaris is good, even compared to SA latest. CO is confusingly different, so many words sung like SA uses vocabulary. Topics about domination and loss of it in male/female relationship, the unusual genre way. Some dislike it, I love it.

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:57 pm

This is so hard...
As some of you might know (some might not)
But I hated Gather the Faithfull.
I would not have even posted it here as an option.
To know why I hate Gather the Faithfull you can go Here.

Now. Polaris and The Days of Grays...
My favorite band is Sonata Arctica.
What happened this year is that when Polaris came out, it was so damn good, that I did not see Sonata making a better album than Polaris, and as an album, The Days of Grays to me is not better than Polaris, but the thing is that it has 4 songs that I liked more than any song in Polaris. So I came down to a very hard choise. I can't lie even when Sonata is my favorite band. Polaris is a better album. I vote for The Days of Grays for two reasons. The first, I HATE to see Gather the Faithfull with more votes. The second one, is called Deathaura.
Maybe because I also love symphonic metal, but somehow this song penetrated my mind so deep, in a way no other song had in YEARS.
Of course, I don't claim to know anything, and this is just my personal taste

When I first listened to Deep Unkwnown, I thougt "If Sonata doesn't give me a better start, I might change my favorite band" And Tony delivered that Deathaura song... I was just speechless. I actually did cry the first time I listened to that song, It really did something to me. My favorite songs this year were in deed Deathaura and Deep Unknown...
But since I liked Deathaura more, I voted for The Days of Grays. I repeat, as a full album, Polaris is better. Fresh, strong, amazing. Gather the faithfull... well, my full review is on the other link (Again it's just what I think... don't be mad at me if I hated it).

The other thing I'd like to know is...
Why?

This is not a competition. We are talking about bands with really GREAT musicians that make different types of music. Cain's Offering is more the type of speedy "happy" power metal. Like the one DragonForce makes... just that Cain's Offering does have good musicians. Now, Stratovarius does more like Barroque Power Metal, I think of it like that. You know, all those nice riffs that remind of Bach or Vivaldi, and is also the band with the most experienced musicians. And then Sonata is now making a very wreird dark pseudo goth-power weird metal thing. Did you noticed Dany Elfman's influence on the album?
So, if you make this comparisson because of the links the 3 bands share, well... where's Age of Aquarius then?
I think music is not really a competition... the most important is to enjoy it, isn't it?
Now, when I wrote that review on SA's forum, I was a bit pissed of with Cain's Offering, and to be honest, I don't really hate them. I do like My Queen of Winter, but next to Deep Unknown and Deathaura... it's just...

another song. Again, just my taste, but I don't really like it when it comes to compare music I like.
So, to finnish this I will just say

Polaris + 1
Gather the Faithfull + 1
The Days of Grays + 1
and why not... Age of Aquarius + 1

Save those bands, they are the future
Let them lead us into the better world.

Burning Reflection · Post by **Burning Reflection** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:16 pm

Intiaani wrote:
Burning Reflection wrote:There's nothing I don't like about Cain's offering. It's over all power metal with blends of other types of music tastefully arranged with climactic lyrics and composition. The vocal melodies are brilliant, I love Jani's solos and his right hand rhythms.
Only that the songs, the music itself, is mostly generic as hell.

I respect your opinion but tell me what kind generic metal bands sound like this so I go buy their albums!

The arrangements are not typical verse chorus verse bridge composition for example Morpheus in a Masquerade. Listen to the beginning of Oceans of Regret and the Bridge and tell me what kind of band does that Techno Electronic sound to a death metal circus like riff in the bridge. I love all the grooves like the keyboard solo on More than Friends; reminds me of the funky sonata days when they did stuff like the bridge in Victoria's Secret. I want to hear these generic bands pull off a guitar solo like the slides in Oceans of Regret solo or the epic solo in Stolen Waters. Just this stuff alone sets it apart from being generic imo

Balu · Post by **Balu** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:20 pm

Meh, opinions are opinions, but WHAT?!
No song on TDoG, not even Deathaura is even a bit like symphonic metal.

mayhem-for-all · Post by **mayhem-for-all** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:41 pm

Balu wrote:Meh, opinions are opinions, but WHAT?!
No song on TDoG, not even Deathaura is even a bit like symphonic metal.

Sometimes you make me think you even haven't heard the album...

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:54 pm

There's one thing I'd like to ask all Gather the Faithfull lovers.
Do you REALLY REALLY love the album like for example I would love Episode or Ecliptica?

Or do you just like it because... "It's fucking Jani Liimatainen!!!"

Please correct me if I'm wrong and don't take it personally, but I'd like to know who really likes it, and who is just playing the fanboy/fangirl. Jani is a great musician, but is he the greatest composer?

Because I've read a post very close to mine that where a quote says "Generic music in Cain's Offering".
I feel that too. I don't see them doing anything that Avantasia has not, and better.
So I just leave that question.

Do you really like it? or are you just following Jani?

Also...

mayhem-for-all wrote:
Balu wrote:Meh, opinions are opinions, but WHAT?!
No song on TDoG, not even Deathaura is even a bit like symphonic metal.
Sometimes you make me think you even haven't heard the album...

Over 9000 points for Mayhem...

Burning Reflection · Post by **Burning Reflection** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:12 pm

^ Why do you have to like it as much as episode or ecliptica? I think a lot of metal heads are too critical about everything. They worry about having to like something new, different or liking every song or if they are betraying their personal security or favorite band. I don't care if it's justin timberlake on the guitar, if he makes it sound like Jani does I'm gonna buy it. I like all the musicians on the album and I've liked Jani ever since his solo on Weballergy and his stuff Altaria is even better than on some of the the Sonata Albums. I even think My Selene is one of Sonata's better tracks (I love how he incorporates the heaviness in the bridges) and even love henik's solo on that song. If I could write anything half as good as Jani I would be happy. I like any kind of music with talent; I think many people would be surprised when I say that Hymn to Life is probably one of my top 10 albums ever for example.

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:40 pm

Burning Reflection wrote:^ Why do you have to like it as much as episode or ecliptica? I think a lot of metal heads are too critical about everything. They worry about having to like something new, different or liking every song or if they are betraying their personal security or favorite band. I don't care if it's justin timberlake on the guitar, if he makes it sound like Jani does I'm gonna buy it. I like all the musicians on the album and I've liked Jani ever since his solo on Weballergy and his stuff Altaria is even better than on some of the the Sonata Albums. I even think My Selene is one of Sonata's better tracks (I love how he incorporates the heaviness in the bridges) and even love henik's solo on that song. If I could write anything half as good as Jani I would be happy. I like any kind of music with talent; I think many people would be surprised when I say that Hymn to Life is probably one of my top 10 albums ever for example.

Well you are no fanboy, you DO like Gather the Faithfull for what it is. That's totally fine.

Balu · Post by **Balu** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:43 pm

mayhem-for-all wrote:
Balu wrote:Meh, opinions are opinions, but WHAT?!
No song on TDoG, not even Deathaura is even a bit like symphonic metal.
Sometimes you make me think you even haven't heard the album...

Sometimes you make me think you haven't heard symphonic metal.

sheryl1 · Post by **sheryl1** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:43 pm

HinatAArcticA wrote:There's one thing I'd like to ask all Gather the Faithfull lovers.
Do you REALLY REALLY love the album like for example I would love Episode or Ecliptica?

Or do you just like it because... "It's fucking Jani Liimatainen!!!"

Please correct me if I'm wrong and don't take it personally, but I'd like to know who really likes it, and who is just playing the fanboy/fangirl. Jani is a great musician, but is he the greatest composer?

To be honest, I am Gather the Faithful "lover" and personally I don´t like Jani´s guitar style and back in Sonata I did never go crazy about his performances...So I really like the album (btw I am listening to it the whole day, everyday

) because of the music and not because of "fucking Jani Liimatainen" at all.

Arkash · Post by **Arkash** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:45 pm

I know it's a little bit out of the thread, but I needed to say that, redisovering Polaris after a month and a half without it (to rediscover it even better now!), I really felt deeply in love with King of Nothing, really underrated I think!!!!

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:51 pm

Balu wrote:
mayhem-for-all wrote:
Balu wrote:Meh, opinions are opinions, but WHAT?!
No song on TDoG, not even Deathaura is even a bit like symphonic metal.
Sometimes you make me think you even haven't heard the album...
Sometimes you make me think you haven't heard symphonic metal.

Ok, fine.
Then, What's Symphonic metal?
And don't tell me what YOU think, tell me the objective definition. Wikipedia will do.

Also

sheryl1 wrote:To be honest, I am Gather the Faithful "lover" and personally I don´t like Jani´s guitar style and back in Sonata I did never go crazy about his performances...So I really like the album (btw I am listening to it the whole day, everyday ) because of the music and not because of "fucking Jani Liimatainen" at all.

Well well, is nice to see that Stratoforum does have some real Cain's Offering for what it is, not just Jani followers.

Balu · Post by **Balu** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:58 pm

Wikipedia wrote:Symphonic metal or opera metal is a term used to describe heavy metal music that has symphonic elements; that is, elements that sound similar to a classical symphony. Symphonic metal is both a genre of metal and a name given to several subgenres of other metal genres, and as such, both forms of usage have slightly varying definitions. The genre refers to bands that combine aspects of varying metal genres, with signature female-lead vocals and operatic/classical themes to give the music a feeling of being a symphony.

Example 1
Example 2

You might call it power metal with a few symphonic elements, but not symphonic metal.

About Cain's Offering, I like GTF because of Timo's awesome performence on it.

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:00 pm

Balu wrote: You might call it power metal with a few symphonic elements, but not symphonic metal.

Well, that's different than...

Balu wrote: ...not even Deathaura is even a bit like symphonic metal.

And what I first quoted here is then fair enough.

Balu · Post by **Balu** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:02 pm

For me, symphonic metal and symphonic power metal is very different, maybe because I like both genres very much, sorry if it wasn't understandable, lol.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:39 pm

The Sonata Arctica album was terrible, I DLed it, to see if it was worth buying, and I managed to complete 4 songs before I started hitting the skip button.
It's not a preference issue either, you could call me a speedwhore, but I was recently seen going off on someone who said "Metal is always getting better, go listen to early Black Sabbath albums, they're good, but not great"

*RAGE*
And DOG uses much more choirs, and orchestras, and I nearly DIED when I heard Chinese Democracy I was so happy (Orchestra/choir hard rock).
The albums are distinct, but when I listened to the "Good" songs, I listened to Deathaura and I thought "Kind of sounds like they maybe were listened to BG's night at the opera", then I remember the unmitigated awesome of "And then there was Silence", or "Punishment Divine", and I was like... "Meh".
I liked Everything Fades to Gray, but it just felt like overkill to put it in twice, the extra minute and a half seemed to be the "Better" part of the song, so just putting in the instrumental cut at the beginning was a waste.
I've made my thoughts clear on Flag in the Ground, but basically, you need to play this song loud in surround sound to get anything worthwhile out of it. Tony sounds good, but that's really it. Elias doesn't wow me like Matias did, as usual, Stratovarius got the better end of that shuffle.

Now, onto Cain's Offering.
Dawn
Of
SOLACE

Need I say more?

ggonza43 · Post by **ggonza43** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:56 pm

It was a hard decision between "Gather The Faithful" and "Polaris" ("The Days Of Grays" was just OK), but definitely I will choose...

Stratovarius' Polaris

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:21 am

It's not a preference issue either

of course it is

Babylon · Post by **Babylon** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:30 am

I just listened to the Cain's Offering album last weekend and I was not impressed at all. Nothing to do with TK's performance, of course he could make the Macarena sound good, but other than that I really didn't find anything special on this CD.

HinatAArcticA · Post by **HinatAArcticA** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:52 am

Rebel wrote:The Sonata Arctica album was terrible

No. You just didn't like it. That's different.

mayhem-for-all · Post by **mayhem-for-all** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:05 am

Balu wrote:For me, symphonic metal and symphonic metal is very different, maybe because I like both genres very much, sorry if it wasn't understandable, lol.

Sometimes you make me think you haven't heard symphonic metal.

Actually yes I have.
Regularily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0Q_BsVp4OQ

This is my idea of a great Symphonic Metal song.
(it may not be the best quality since I didn't check it since I don't use Youtube so often anymore as my record collection grow bigger and bigger.)

Balu · Post by **Balu** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:50 pm

Sorry, for the second one I wanted to write symphonic power metal, lol.

Intiaani · Post by **Intiaani** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:25 pm

Just tell me why I didn't like that Celesty album that much. It was okay, but... Nothing that Virgin Steele already hasn't offered in the composing and epic department even with the crappy sound in their old music - they've done it for years and years and years - and Nightwish on the symphonic and majestic side. Also the vocalist is basic as hell. One heck of an overrated album in my mind.

Everyone's like, "the best power metal album since this-and-that". Well, unlikely... This is this plastic metal of today edited to perfection. This, I don't like. Would be better if every musician truly was world-class like in Stratovarius for example. This is just a bunch of guys taking advantage of Protools it seems... Where's the feel?

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:36 pm

It's all about the melodies and tones.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:04 am

HinatAArcticA wrote:
Rebel wrote:The Sonata Arctica album was terrible
No. You just didn't like it. That's different.

That's implied, I learned after years of taking classes on debate and persuasive speaking that "In my opinion" is a phrase that should NEVER escape one's mouth, because if you're saying it, of course it's your opinion.

Ragehead91 · Post by **Ragehead91** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:30 am

Rebel wrote:
HinatAArcticA wrote:
Rebel wrote:The Sonata Arctica album was terrible
No. You just didn't like it. That's different.
That's implied, I learned after years of taking classes on debate and persuasive speaking that "In my opinion" is a phrase that should NEVER escape one's mouth, because if you're saying it, of course it's your opinion.

Truer words have never been spoken. But until this day in nearly every forum I visited it was crammed down my throat that I should ad IMO. Every time you post something likes this someone pops up saying "It is your opinion!". Well of course it is. And to my shame I did that too a few times.

Kecos · Post by **Kecos** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:09 am

I tried to be as objective as I could about it (having bought SA's album this past week, and buying Polaris as soon as B&N could fumble around and get it to me), and I ended up picking Polaris.

They both have 3 or 4 songs that I think were really awesome and I put on playlists (for Polaris - Falling Star, King of Nothing, Winter Skies, and Higher We Go, for Days of Grays - The Last Amazing Grays, Flag in the Ground, The Dead Skin), but I picked Polaris because I think that it was a triumphant return for Stratovarius (by my interpretation of - you guys all wrote some really awesome songs (damn Lauri, nice job

) and I am confident you will make some more awesome music in the future. Rock on Strato

Stratovarius Community

The Ultimate Battle

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