Money in music, money in Stratovarius

[crostrato]

As huge Stratovarius fan, huge fan of music, I have one simple question, how much money do Stratovarius earn, why I ask this, because Stratovarius is basically the reason why I star to play my instrument seriously, I know, I know, this topic will will raise a lot of dust, but as a future professional musician I want to know that, How much do that made on tour with 80, 90 shows, where else do they earn money, on merch, selling cd-s, dvd-s.... It will be great if some band members join here and tell as some stuff about it, I know that would be impossible, but just basics not details?
Thank you.

[crostrato]

As huge Stratovarius fan, huge fan of music, I have one simple question, how much money do Stratovarius earn, why I ask this, because Stratovarius is basically the reason why I star to play my instrument seriously, I know, I know, this topic will will raise a lot of dust, but as a future professional musician I want to know that, How much do that made on tour with 80, 90 shows, where else do they earn money, on merch, selling cd-s, dvd-s.... It will be great if some band members join here and tell as some stuff about it, I know that would be impossible, but just basics not details?
Thank you.

For example, when they come from this Helloween - Stratovarius tour, how much each band member earn? 3000 euros, 10000 euros, 11000 euros, how much? I was always wonder this?

[NeonVomit]

Tell us how much you earn first!

[crostrato]

I dont earn anything yet with music. When I work, I earn about 500 euros per month, doing some student stuff.

[browneyedgirl]

Well, put it this way----I'm sure they don't live on potted meat and Ramen noodles!

[eternity_strato]

They earn enough money for not having to do bloody shit and copycats of themselves over and over.

[valo_666]

They earn enough money for not having to do bloody shit and copycats of themselves over and over.

rotfl

[Arnold Layne]

They earn enough money for not having to do bloody shit and copycats of themselves over and over.

rotfl

LOL!

Arnold Layne

[claudiodxe]

Read this article written by jens a while ago...

http://www.panix.com/~jens/musician.par

Anyway... You are looking to the wrong side mate... Stratovarius is a famous, innovative band, an many people respect them (called fans)... You should be looking for this rather than money... But it takes lots of guts to do it.

[crostrato]

Anyway... You are looking to the wrong side mate... Stratovarius is a famous, innovative band, an many people respect them (called fans)... You should be looking for this rather than money... But it takes lots of guts to do it.

What are you talking about?

[NeonVomit]

He means that you don't choose to perform metal music for the money. You do it because you love it, that's the important reason.

Generally, making money in the music industry is very difficult if you're an artist. Oh, there's plenty of money in the music industry, but most of it goes to labels, promoters and the like. As Jens pointed out in his article, the artists are at the bottom... the very bottom of the food chain. Everyone gets a cut before you do and there are many well-known and famous bands whose members you'd be surprised to know have day jobs. Now things are changing... many artists will 'sell' music directly to consumers but the downside is that it's difficult to promote a band without a good label's connections and resources. And while it's easy to demonise record labels and say they're destroying music (and to a certain extent, that is true) at the same time they filter out an awful lot of crap that will thankfully never be heard by a mass audience.

Traditionally, an artist would sign a deal with a label, which would then give them money to record and produce an album. The label would then look after promotion and distribution, and from the sale of the album the artist would get royalties... a little bit of money of the sale of each album, usually around 15%. The record company would get the rest to pay for production, distribution, etc. Merchandise and live performances would be dealt with by the band's management independently.

Increasingly however, artists are signing so-called '360-deals', which means that the record company will not only arrange for production and promotion but also for shows, merchandise and pretty much every other thing that an artist will get involved in (hence the name). They essentially become the managers for the artist as well. Since revenue streams from albums are basically in terminal decline, these companies have to find other ways to raise funds.

As for how much money Stratovarius members make, only they can say for sure and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want that sort of information to be made public...

As you are a future professional musician however, I feel I need to warn you about this situation.

As someone who is currently pursuing a career in music and has been vastly more successful than most, let me tell you that it is not an easy way to go, and I've been playing and reading music for the past 23 years (I had my first piano lesson at the age of 5).

By vastly more successful than most, I mean that I've played with multiple well-known orchestras (City University London Orchestra, Kingston-upon-Thames Symphony and Cyprus State Orchestras and several smaller orchestras), but only on a temporary basis. I played pretty regular gigs at small clubs around London and Cyprus, but they only paid a hundred euros or so a time, if that much. I suppose I could make a reasonable income from teaching but it's never interested me so decided I shouldn't go into it. Outside my classical music exploits, I play in a band called Winter's Verge, we're currently signed to Massacre Records and we released two albums and are working on a third. We went on tour with Stratovarius last year and while we're not that famous, we have fans all over the world and people buy our albums and come to our shows.

I've been trained by some of the finest teachers in the country at some of the finest schools in the country (University of Surrey and Kingston University - I have a Master's degree in music) and have worked very hard to get to the point at which I have arrived.

Still, I am currently writing this while studying in my final year of law school. I have decided that having another qualification is vital to have an income, as working as a musician I never made enough to live on without another job. We all have day jobs in order to make a living.

Am I telling you not to pursue a career in music? Not at all. Am I telling you that you'll have to work harder than EVERYONE ELSE in order to make it? YES. Know this: there are people in this world who have been playing since they were four years old; people who have been reading music for longer than that; people who write entire albums in a week; people who will go to every single open mic night in a 20-mile radius, every single day after work for no pay; people who have been practising 6+ hours a day for longer than you've been alive; people who live, eat, sleep, breathe music. These are your competition. These are the people who you will have to be better than in order to make a living as a musician, ESPECIALLY as a session player. Am I telling you this to scare you? You betcha. Do I want to scare you away from a career as a musician? No. I want to scare you to the point that you truly consider the costs of what you are considering. I want to scare you to the point that you quit spending time on the internet and go practice.

If you want to be a session player, go to New York, LA, London or Nashville and take lessons from the lead session players in those towns. Maybe in a decade or so you'll be able to quit your other two jobs and be a session player. When I say a decade or so, I'M NOT JOKING. I've seen so many people go through this process it's not even amusing any more.

One way or another, you can always be a musician, always love making music. You can become an engineer or pilot or doctor and have better equipment than your friends or the rest of your bandmates.

One thing is for certain, choosing a career in music is not for the faint-hearted. I've wanted to quit so many times and some people might say that I have, that going to law school was my admission of defeat... Why I haven't totally quit, I don't know, honestly. But, I haven't. Maybe that's why something will come from it for me where for so many others it hasn't. You decide who you'll be.

[robocop656]

I QUIT.

You sure did type a lot. Good Job. You know what Frank Zappa said when people asked him about tips on being a musician? Something like: "DON'T!!!"

[raattori]

NeonVomit, nice post but im sure that author meant something like not-session musician? Like a band sized Stratovarius or something like that. Surely not like U2 or Maiden or Metallica.

[browneyedgirl]

And, don't forget the club or beer hall musicians who love their craft but don't make alot of money. Many though, do pretty well, enough to live in nice houses and send their children to university---and never record an album.

[NeonVomit]

NeonVomit, nice post but im sure that author meant something like not-session musician? Like a band sized Stratovarius or something like that. Surely not like U2 or Maiden or Metallica.

Take it from me, making it in a band is even harder than making it as a session musician, as it relies on other people being as SERIOUSLY dedicated as you are.

[Kecos]

a

[robocop656]

NeonVomit, nice post but im sure that author meant something like not-session musician? Like a band sized Stratovarius or something like that. Surely not like U2 or Maiden or Metallica.

Take it from me, making it in a band is even harder than making it as a session musician, as it relies on other people being as SERIOUSLY dedicated as you are.

Aaaaand that's where the story ends. Serious people. Musicians. TWO WORDS THAT DON'T GO TOGETHER!!!
I know I've never said anything productive but.... someone that I know went to MI (Musicians Institute) in LA and he is now doing the same thing he did before he graduated. (pizza guy) It really, really, really depends on how you are as a person. If you are workaholic and willing to do anything (ANYTHING, play ANY kind of music, with anybody, even music you might strongly dislike), it might seem like you are going somewhere, but it feels like a fucking treadmill to hell a lot too. Some people who are lazy will always be lazy. Like me!! But what I meant was, there are a lot of people who DO go study Music or some other subject and end up not even doing that for a living too! It's HARD finding people for bands (as in where I live) that you can tolerate that are able to play certain music. It's just a huge goddamn hassle for nothing in my shit opinion. *EXPLOSION*

[AAAAAAAAAA]

A friend of mine graduated with a degree in music. She plays the violin and she's really quite good!

Right now she's working some kind of deskjob though, because apparently you need like 50 years experience to get a salaried job in a reputed symphony.

And teaching? As a fresh music college graduate, the only students she's "qualified" to teach are in the 4-8 age range. And that's more babysitting, than anything.

I have no idea how much Stratovarius guys earn. But if a band sold 1 million albums over a period 20 years and keeps 15% of record sales, that averages to about $22500 a year (per bandmember). Plus money from gigs, merchandise, etc.

In the end it all comes down to supply and demand. Everyone wants to be a rock star, but do you think anyone dreams of becoming a dental hygienist? Nope! And that's exactly why it pays so well.

[robocop656]

Great point!!! If this was real life we could go for dinner and discuss milkshakes over the free bread they give.

[mayhem-for-all]

and send their children to university

Well maybe in countries where University costs a lot of money. In Finland it doesn't. The only problem is qualifying well to get in.

[crostrato]

He means that you don't choose to perform metal music for the money. You do it because you love it, that's the important reason.

Generally, making money in the music industry is very difficult if you're an artist. Oh, there's plenty of money in the music industry, but most of it goes to labels, promoters and the like. As Jens pointed out in his article, the artists are at the bottom... the very bottom of the food chain. Everyone gets a cut before you do and there are many well-known and famous bands whose members you'd be surprised to know have day jobs. Now things are changing... many artists will 'sell' music directly to consumers but the downside is that it's difficult to promote a band without a good label's connections and resources. And while it's easy to demonise record labels and say they're destroying music (and to a certain extent, that is true) at the same time they filter out an awful lot of crap that will thankfully never be heard by a mass audience.

Traditionally, an artist would sign a deal with a label, which would then give them money to record and produce an album. The label would then look after promotion and distribution, and from the sale of the album the artist would get royalties... a little bit of money of the sale of each album, usually around 15%. The record company would get the rest to pay for production, distribution, etc. Merchandise and live performances would be dealt with by the band's management independently.

Increasingly however, artists are signing so-called '360-deals', which means that the record company will not only arrange for production and promotion but also for shows, merchandise and pretty much every other thing that an artist will get involved in (hence the name). They essentially become the managers for the artist as well. Since revenue streams from albums are basically in terminal decline, these companies have to find other ways to raise funds.

As for how much money Stratovarius members make, only they can say for sure and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want that sort of information to be made public...

As you are a future professional musician however, I feel I need to warn you about this situation.

As someone who is currently pursuing a career in music and has been vastly more successful than most, let me tell you that it is not an easy way to go, and I've been playing and reading music for the past 23 years (I had my first piano lesson at the age of 5).

By vastly more successful than most, I mean that I've played with multiple well-known orchestras (City University London Orchestra, Kingston-upon-Thames Symphony and Cyprus State Orchestras and several smaller orchestras), but only on a temporary basis. I played pretty regular gigs at small clubs around London and Cyprus, but they only paid a hundred euros or so a time, if that much. I suppose I could make a reasonable income from teaching but it's never interested me so decided I shouldn't go into it. Outside my classical music exploits, I play in a band called Winter's Verge, we're currently signed to Massacre Records and we released two albums and are working on a third. We went on tour with Stratovarius last year and while we're not that famous, we have fans all over the world and people buy our albums and come to our shows.

I've been trained by some of the finest teachers in the country at some of the finest schools in the country (University of Surrey and Kingston University - I have a Master's degree in music) and have worked very hard to get to the point at which I have arrived.

Still, I am currently writing this while studying in my final year of law school. I have decided that having another qualification is vital to have an income, as working as a musician I never made enough to live on without another job. We all have day jobs in order to make a living.

Am I telling you not to pursue a career in music? Not at all. Am I telling you that you'll have to work harder than EVERYONE ELSE in order to make it? YES. Know this: there are people in this world who have been playing since they were four years old; people who have been reading music for longer than that; people who write entire albums in a week; people who will go to every single open mic night in a 20-mile radius, every single day after work for no pay; people who have been practising 6+ hours a day for longer than you've been alive; people who live, eat, sleep, breathe music. These are your competition. These are the people who you will have to be better than in order to make a living as a musician, ESPECIALLY as a session player. Am I telling you this to scare you? You betcha. Do I want to scare you away from a career as a musician? No. I want to scare you to the point that you truly consider the costs of what you are considering. I want to scare you to the point that you quit spending time on the internet and go practice.

If you want to be a session player, go to New York, LA, London or Nashville and take lessons from the lead session players in those towns. Maybe in a decade or so you'll be able to quit your other two jobs and be a session player. When I say a decade or so, I'M NOT JOKING. I've seen so many people go through this process it's not even amusing any more.

One way or another, you can always be a musician, always love making music. You can become an engineer or pilot or doctor and have better equipment than your friends or the rest of your bandmates.

One thing is for certain, choosing a career in music is not for the faint-hearted. I've wanted to quit so many times and some people might say that I have, that going to law school was my admission of defeat... Why I haven't totally quit, I don't know, honestly. But, I haven't. Maybe that's why something will come from it for me where for so many others it hasn't. You decide who you'll be.

Very good article, but honestly I know all that, and trust I m not in metal music because of the money, I m in because of love, passion and many, many others things, I just wanted to know how much successful metal bend earn, not details off course, but you know, some stuff.

[adrian9]

I think being skilled is just a part a being succesful in music, a lot have to do with hard work, getting the word spread about you, being clever market-wise and promotion wise, the people you get in your band and of course a bit of luck.
the best example of this? Jorg or Jens, look at the list of people they had worked with....that Jorg Castle surely cost a ton of hard work and cd sales.

[claudiodxe]

I have no idea how the music industry works in terms of the money. So everything I write here is just my "not justified" opinion... I believe music industry is a really nasty bitch, where the only thing that matters is to be well related to certain people, where it doesn't matter if you have talent or not (ok well, it matters, but not that much)... So thats why you see perfectly well prepared people, creative and all, struggle their way up to fame, where as other people, without any talent whatsoever, go the same way easily.

Another thing that might be true, is that bands nowadays probably get most of their revenue from live shows. BUT then there's this issue. For example, I went to see Agua de Annique in Barcelona (the band from former singer of The Gathering, Anneke Van Giersbergen), which, in my opinion, is one of the most successful bands in the genre, and also most successful female singers, and at the concert there were at the most 50 people.. Or Stratovarius, in Monterrey there were a little above 500 people, which I think its a really small audience for the popularity of the band (without misunderstandings, this was a really good concert)...

In the end, what I wanted to say, its that it must be really really difficult to be an artist, not because their fame, or the solid fans all over the world that are happy to listen and buy their music, but because Its probably the most underpaid art of all.

[crostrato]

I like how this topic goes, very nice talking, no trash, keep it that way, hehe, very nice. .

[AGAG]

I like how this topic goes, very nice talking, no trash, keep it that way, hehe, very nice. .

You SURE shouldn't say that. When someone notices something is getting along nicely, everything goes bananas.

To offer my tremendously deep insight: a good group of my friends left college and put Everything in their lives in a temporal hiatus to study classical guitar in a shitty music school just around the corner. I personally think they should be enrolled in a mental institution

[Derrick Rose]

QUIZ!

How much MONEY is in this MONEY TREE??


Closest number gets 50 or 1 gumdrops!

[crostrato]

What would I give to be moderator on this forum, it will be like in army in here.

[robocop656]

What's wrong? Somebody chop off your pee pee as a kid?

[NeonVomit]

Very good article, but honestly I know all that, and trust I m not in metal music because of the money, I m in because of love, passion and many, many others things, I just wanted to know how much successful metal bend earn, not details off course, but you know, some stuff.

Yeah, but you need money to live. Just be prepared to have a regular job at the same time.

Successful metal bands can earn a lot of money. The details? Only they know. For the most part though, they make enough to have a decent (i.e. normal, not rockstar-playboy) life... I don't think we'll be seeing many millionaire metal musicians very much any more for the reasons I outlined above.

[NeonVomit]

Take it from me, making it in a band is even harder than making it as a session musician, as it relies on other people being as SERIOUSLY dedicated as you are.

I imagine the guys you play with (as well as yourself) are all insanely skilled at your respective instruments to have made it where you are? Skill at composing is just as important, unless I'm mistaken.

Well... 'unskilled' isn't the death-knell you might think. Not all bands are like Dream Theater or Stratovarius or Symphony X where every member is at the top of their game. There are several members of well-known bands who are just reasonably good at their instruments, and who just let other people do the work. I won't name names, but I'm pretty sure we can all think of a few. You need to be skilled, sure, because if you're not then it's going to be a monster of a task in the studio to get a solid album out. You very rarely see bad drummers in the metal - they don't last very long and they've got basically the most important job in the studio. Producers will not tolerate them. Bad guitarists have a slightly easier ride, but not much, especially if they're the only one in the band. I think that by looking at the current state of pop music, bad vocalists can thrive uninhibited but again, in the metal scene they tend to be discovered very quickly in live shows and again, don't last very long. So yes, you need to be a tight player. You don't need to be Stevie Ray Vaughn reincarnated, but you need to be a tight player for sure.

The other guys in my band are all amazing - I basically consider myself the least talented one! But being incredibly good at your instrument is not enough, having great ideas for songs and being able to arrange them well is also vital, and then on top of that you need the organisational skills to actually gather up the resources you need to get the album recorded and produced. You need all of these things in order to even have a chance of getting anywhere. Having good people skills (or at least having a manager who does) is also incredibly important - you won't get any gigs or deals if you come across as an ass all the time.