No, the clause simply says "there cannot be now new Stratovarius studio album while RR exists". They were just scared that I put Strato back together and wanted to prevent that with that clause. ANd since I at that time had the rights and the band was over...no problem.JensJohansson wrote:I understood the R.R. agreement between Tolkki and Frontiers had a clause which said essentially "there is to be no Stratovarius activity during the Revolution Renaissance marketing period".
Setting aside any copyright issues for a second, I just wanted to point out the somewhat absurd situation where BOTH parties to that agreement now seem to cooperate to breach a clause of it.
It's a bit comical, just when I thought I was so old I had seen everything....
Well if I gave away my income from even the albums where the guys are not even playing and the rights to the name then of course for me its a possibility that they continue as Strato. But to me it would be wrong.browneyedgirl wrote:Who seems to claim to know everything. Who is this sucker?
SMARTASS KNOWITALL
Timo,
After reading all your statements and posts, all of Jens posts etc, i think that i have an opinion based in common sense. And this "common sense" leads here:
FOR STRATOVARIUS:
if a problem is a person (in our example, TK and JM), then solve this problem and don't destroy everything. Problems are created by people, not by situations. Strato was your band. You had problem with two members. So, what's more simple than firing those 2 members, take new ones and continue your band? Simple, logical and ordinary situation. Of course if you did that, you also would receive some hate from Kotipelto fans etc, (just as Weikath had when he fired Kiske or Hansen), but at the end of the day the situation would be much simpler and healthier than the current one.
The problem begun when thoughts like "Stratovarius can't exist without Kotipelto,Michael and bla-bla-bla' begun. It's like telling that "Helloween won't exist without Hansen" etc, when reality proves that they exist, especially when new members bring fresh air in a band. You should understand that always, even if you are 100%right and others 100% wrong there will be people with hate that will speak bad about you. That's life. You can't take band/business decisions based on what's good and wrong in a spiritual way, because bands and music industry doesn't work that way, and you know that better than me. You are very brave and generous and you acted like that, but as you see, some people understand you, and others not. There is no a perfect situation where everyone will support you, no matter how generous you'll be.
FOR STRATO-FORUM:
Even Stratovarius, a band that all the world knew that was your band, has fans that think that Strato can exist without you. this thing proves that people's thoughts sometimes are unfair. Well, you should live with that, because we don't live in a perfect world. Now you try to prove that you don't deserve all the blame alone, but as more you try to prove that, that more some "fans" want to insult you. All things that you live during the last days prove one thing: no matter how you act (bad or good, generous or not etc), no matter which are your decisions, there will be always people with false (how else to describe an opinion of a person that wants to listen to Tolkki's band without Tolkki inside) opinions that want to insult and offend you. Probably most people on Stratoforum who insult you are not even Stratovarius fans or they have never bought any album. More probably, most of them never liked Strato and now they are making fun by taking sides and speak bad about you. If you are "touched" by someones' music then you can't insult him. You can disagree with him but you will never insult him. So, don't waste your time with these people. By answering to them you make them much more important than they are.
CONCLUSION:
At the end of the day, all the problem now is that with STRATOVARIUS a basic logical rule is broken: you left YOUR band. This is not happening nowhere. It never happend in music industry before and probably it will never happen again. Steve Harris never left Maiden because of Dickinson. Weikath never left Helloween because of Grapow or Kusch, not even because of Hansen who was his co-songwriter. Malmsteen never left Rising Force because of Edman. Schaffer never left Iced Earth because of Barlow.Tolkki never left Stratovarius because of Kotip...oops... actually that happened. And it's wrong.
WOW! This person is a professor of philosophy!
Stratofarcius would be better. 10 years from now I am 52 and I dont envision 55 year Jörg Michael playing Find your own voice.Stratobanger wrote:They should just call it Jensovarius or something like that...
And well...one thing is true...Tolkki surely has guts to continue coming here...I mean, still dedicating time to respond...but well...probably just the first months...sooner or later this will calm down and settle.
Anyway Timo, you're still the reason I got into guitar playing and Strato's the reason I got into Metal...
So...thank you for that...
You should just try to dialogue like grown-ups in order not to affect either RR or Stratowhateverthenamemaybe
And...I suppose that you might even end up in amicable terms
See you in the reunion tour...10 years from now
TimoTolkki wrote:Stratofarcius would be better. 10 years from now I am 52 and I dont envision 55 year Jörg Michael playing Find your own voice.Stratobanger wrote:They should just call it Jensovarius or something like that...
And well...one thing is true...Tolkki surely has guts to continue coming here...I mean, still dedicating time to respond...but well...probably just the first months...sooner or later this will calm down and settle.
Anyway Timo, you're still the reason I got into guitar playing and Strato's the reason I got into Metal...
So...thank you for that...
You should just try to dialogue like grown-ups in order not to affect either RR or Stratowhateverthenamemaybe
And...I suppose that you might even end up in amicable terms
See you in the reunion tour...10 years from now
Nah, I will be in me library with a good book and cup of cocoa and remember my scrapbook of madness...
I imagine Frontiers must be pretty happy with the complete absence of any problems whatsoeverTimoTolkki wrote:no problem
nay, it is called lawyers work...RazielSR wrote:I have come to the conclusion that all this is a big shit.
No problem to add that clause for me. I was just correcting your wrong wording. I don't think THEY have problems with RR, on the contrary, the way their business is set, it seems to be a label that's policy is to make projects.JensJohansson wrote:I imagine Frontiers must be pretty happy with the complete absence of any problems whatsoeverTimoTolkki wrote:no problem
Estas en lo cierto, lo malo esque ellos mismos no paran la situación tan dramática, ridícula y denigrante que se está viviendo. Como dijo Sofocles, "No hay mayor mentira que la verdad mal entendida".MikeWacho wrote:bonitos recuerdos cuando los vi en el elements tour...
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nice memories...but you know what?, there's nothing that can't be repaired, except death itself...
and you know something else?, they had has a great album on their hands for a couple of years -a perfect album i must say- and it got ruined for some personal fights...fights that maybe couldn't been avoided, but that could have been repaired by actually talking instead of keeping the problems in their heads only...
so, why not actually resolve this...there are 2 good ways, and they both lead to something happy...repair their own personal problems in private and come again to all of us, their fans, like the metal band we know for years...or just end all of this lawyers shit and go separate ways waving a well good bye each other....
either way, we are going to follow you all...
I have often already compared this to a very difficult divorce. Anybody who has gone through that knows that talking is impossible.MikeWacho wrote:bonitos recuerdos cuando los vi en el elements tour...
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nice memories...but you know what?, there's nothing that can't be repaired, except death itself...
and you know something else?, they had has a great album on their hands for a couple of years -a perfect album i must say- and it got ruined for some personal fights...fights that maybe couldn't been avoided, but that could have been repaired by actually talking instead of keeping the problems in their heads only...
so, why not actually resolve this...there are 2 good ways, and they both lead to something happy...repair their own personal problems in private and come again to all of us, their fans, like the metal band we know for years...or just end all of this lawyers shit and go separate ways waving a well good bye each other....
either way, we are going to follow you all...
Yes, but real friends dont pretend 6 months to be your friends and then call you greedy narcistic Faust. Right?MikeWacho wrote:thanks for replying Timo, yes i have read them all (completely) before actually creating my new account, 'cause the last one was dead for so much time of inactivity, but hey, it's free to dream isn't it? and i know is just not possible a reconciliation, but hey, my second option is the one you all want to achieve isn't it?
just a well good bye and godspeed, to the members and that's it...
yes i have heard the promo and stumbled in the leaked demos, great music, and i couldn't spect less as a fan of your songs (and the entire band)...
so like i said in another thread...hope you get that sign with SPV (and maybe some more little comebacks with kiske XD) cause we're just waiting your new work, and the works of JJ and the band also...(and we here in mexico-monterrey wants to see you with the RR band, and the new band of the group here someday)
PD: seriously, i can see JJ is still your friend and is trying to talk to you, he's the only one responding to you...he just doesn't have the same opinion as you, and believe me, real friends are actually the ones that stand in front of you in disagreement and try to talk to you, only hypocrites can say "you're right" always without trying to talk about the flaws or the weak points face to face...
only when they are pissed off (ohh if i know that), at least he have the generosity -or the morality- to show himself and respond, who else does it? (and also adds that the RR album sounds great to himself)TimoTolkki wrote: Yes, but real friends dont pretend 6 months to be your friends and then call you greedy narcistic Faust. Right?
Well Tolkki, sometimes things like this happens. Have you ever called somebody something bad and then you realize that was not good and you try to "fix" the situation? What I can see is that you (scandinavians I mean) don't talk about the problems.I see it here in the forum, and I see it in you. And I see it in the scandinavian people I know. I'm spanish, and I can tell you latin people is a lot more impulsive. This is not always good, but sometimes it helps, you know?TimoTolkki wrote: Yes, but real friends dont pretend 6 months to be your friends and then call you greedy narcistic Faust. Right?
nah, solo tomamos al toro por los cuernos XD, aunque es solo por regiones, en otras ciudades de aqui son demasiado arrogantes y no hacen eso XD, pero cometen el error de ignorarRazielSR wrote:I'm spanish, and I can tell you latin people is a lot more impulsive. This is not always good, but sometimes it helps, you know?
But they didn't talk about the real problems (they say it in many interviews) and then they are here flaming each other all the things that must be talked face to face. That is very strange for us. I prefer to argue 5 minutes or have a fistfight than stay 5 years hating the man in front of me. The conclusion is the same, but I have lost 5 minutes, not 5 years.MikeWacho wrote:nah, solo tomamos al toro por los cuernos XD, aunque es solo por regiones, en otras ciudades de aqui son demasiado arrogantes y no hacen eso XD, pero cometen el error de ignorarRazielSR wrote:I'm spanish, and I can tell you latin people is a lot more impulsive. This is not always good, but sometimes it helps, you know?
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nay, we just take the bull by the horns must of the time, but friends are like family to us, and like in must of the families, there are always fights...and like in my family, really hard ones....
one just get along and fix the problem or say good bye... and like TT said, te decision has already been taken...
thats why i say, this problem doesn't end because they still don't end it talking face to face, even if i hate someone, at least i try to talk to him, or yell to him or something...before a fistfight of course (i haven't had one in like, 9 years)...and c'mon, they don't need to have a fist fight, just put them in a sealed room all the weekend...they surely will talk about it when they get bored XDRazielSR wrote:
But they didn't talk about the real problems (they say it in many interviews) and then they are here flaming each other all the things that must be talked face to face. That is very strange for us. I prefer to argue 5 minutes or have a fistfight than stay 5 years hating the man in front of me. The conclusion is the same, but I have lost 5 minutes, not 5 years.
hahahahahaMikeWacho wrote: just put them in a sealed room all the weekend...they surely will talk about it when they get bored XD
MikeWacho wrote:
nothing hurts more and creates more problems than the complete silence...that nothingness is the true killer of the band...
Yes, he tricked me. How did I trick them? I stopped the band that was my creation lyrically, ideologically and musically. I took away my songs that I composed and told them well in advance to look for other options. When it became obvious that they are continuing as Strato, I could not believe it.Beast_Pete wrote:Timo, what if Jens just wanted to find out more about the things you didn't tell them? Maybe he tricked you, but you tricked them too. So it's up to two, as always. I guess both of you feel betrayed, for very good reasons, but if you never sit down and really try to talk over the things, you will never understand each others' points.
Making aaumptions is easy, but trying to understand the causes is what you really have to do. Makes life easier.
I suppose that this videofootage is not taken from Revolution Renaissance demosessions where former stratomembers help their former bandmate:TimoTolkki wrote: How did I trick them?
I stopped the band that was my creation lyrically, ideologically and musically. I took away my songs that I composed and told them well in advance to look for other options.
I won't say it, but also someone could call this hypocrisy or martyrdom...Then I decided I dont want to have part of this, which DOESN'T mean that I accept it, and gave away all the rights to 11 albums and to the name. Forever. If you call this trickery, then you call it trickery. I call it sad.
Well it didnt come as a surprise for them. I didnt sell any demosong to some record company.Wouldn't you feel betrayed as professional musician if you would have recorded 11 demosongs to your forthcoming album and also played one of them live, and just after that your bands "leader" tolds you that this band doesn't exist anymore and sells those former bands demosongs as songs of his new band to some record company?
No, there will be 10 songs composed by me on the "New Era" album.You cannot deny this, cause there's going to be three Stratovarius demosongs on future RR release and also those eleven demos can be found from the net.
Of course you call it that. The guys called it a gift. I call it a fact.I won't say it, but also someone could call this hypocrisy or martyrdom...
