new band name

[icecab21]

I just find it to be a huge problem in society. Cause and effect in separate from motive and intention. So much about so much is this bullshit about motives and intentions instead of cause and effect. Take the democratic convention. It’s this complete bullshit about the intentions and motives of the Republican Party. Next week when the republicans talk about the democrats, they too will spew complete bullshit about the motives and intentions of the democrats. This all creates separation instead of community and does not focus on analytical facts and fixing real problems.

[hiro23]

I just find it to be a huge problem in society. Cause and effect in separate from motive and intention. So much about so much is this bullshit about motives and intentions instead of cause and effect. Take the democratic convention. It’s this complete bullshit about the intentions and motives of the Republican Party. Next week when the republicans talk about the democrats, they too will spew complete bullshit about the motives and intentions of the democrats. This all creates separation instead of community and does not focus on analytical facts and fixing real problems.

that really does sum up things right there, I mean at this point I just wanna see an album and to hell with all the bullshit inbetween

[icecab21]

with these creative teams i'm sure masterpeices are to come. lots of excitment within the bands and i really think they will all come up with material that they are happy with and that can keep them energized and loving what they do.

[RazielSR]

We have!! one more song for you tonight!! and the song is called!!

...LEEEEEEEGIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOONSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!

[Mörkö]

There is no logic whatsoever towards tolkki doing what he did with a prime purpose of short term monetary gain over a long term purpose of personal happiness. The basic fact is that tolkki gets more money in stratovarius then by starting a new band. In stratovarius he gave everyone an even share. In RR everyone is getting an even share.

Here's a bombshell for you guys: rumors have it that Tolkki did not even pay a couple of the people who performed on "New Era". ANYTHING.

That tolkki got a little more money from new era is a short term consequence of his non-satisfaction with playing with the others and not a primary goal from an otherwise content group member. If tolkki was more money oriented he would have given the name and keeped his royalty rights and then pressed on for future success under the name stratovarius.

You have it abit backwards.

They all faced suing their label, he ran out of money, gambled high, got short term money from New Era, ruined the band, lost himself and his old friends $300,000. He got the New Era money and Stratovarius got the legal debt.

To justify what he did he made many statements of "dissatisfaction" and "lcaking spiritualism". Calling it by the true names of greed, jealousy and resentment, was too mundane.

[icecab21]

That is addiction if that’s what happened. More of short a term desperate and emotional fling than a logical system of action. He has even said he was neurotic and did some things without thinking of consequences before. new patterns can be formed and everyone is in a better environment now. with causes being either self or group, it does not make a difference for the future.

How come it took so long to get to a settlement with the lawsuit for this to even happen? With it all being material 2006


Just wondering about the payback process, how much do the bands get when they play for over 50000 at those summer festivals like wacken?

Since tolkki is not going to smile, give thumbs up and say "no shit sherlock”. If he has problems he might as well get some help and get musical. He is in demand for producing and making music still.

The best way to be greedy is to do something that makes more money than something such as metal with its nonmarket. If someone wants to get in the money in a greedy way they might as well be a lobbyist or a hedge fund manager.

I would not say the band is too ruined with the commercial name of stratovarius. They can pre-sell a lot more than rr will and have a free ride to ticket sales with the name stratovarius,

I would call this whole thing crashing into a valley that will lead to everyone rising to mountain tops afterwards. It’s at least what everyone should try and do.

From the summer festivals on YouTube, tk does not sing with consistant controll, did he always have this or was this a newer thing?

[browneyedgirl]

Oh, Jesus, icecab21. You always take it back to bipolar disorder. For God's sake, open up your eyes and get a life!
Morko is telling you in the nicest way possible what really happened. For all you know, in some way, he might've personally witnessed all that. Then, you turn around and criticize TK at the end of your post. What the Hell is that to do with TTs "transgressions"?
I'm not going to lecture you, though. You are going to believe what you want to, and arguing with you is like arguing with a stone wall, you do not hear anything except what you want to hear.

[icecab21]

tt criticized tks singing and towards the last tour as well. It’s not something so separate when the other guy’s statements contains that there were no problems with the group before tolkki made an alternative universe to crawl into.

I was going by tt's reported timeline for chronological order. If it’s so wrong, then what is the real timeline of events in tt's head?

[exe knight]

. For God's sake, open up your eyes and get a life!

I'm not going to lecture you, though. You are going to believe what you want to, and arguing with you is like arguing with a stone wall, you do not hear anything except what you want to hear.

Then what are you doing? I noticed many flaws in Mörkö's "objection", but I'm not very good at discussing in general so I'll stop here.

[Mörkö]

More of short a term desperate and emotional fling than a logical system of action.

Desperate may be a good word. I am sure Tolkki was not happy to do what he did.

From the summer festivals on YouTube, tk does not sing with consistant controll, did he always have this or was this a newer thing?

It's what happens when you sing live, sometimes you have a bad day.

It's true that there is not many videos on Youtube of Michael Kiske having a bad day. That seems to be because he hasn't sung much live, for about 15 years.

Kiske in RR is another example of short term thinking. Kiske is great in the studio but to play live, RR had to get a new singer.

Tolkki criticizing Stratovarius in public for bad singing, boredom, greed and "non-spirituality" is just a way for him to cover up what he himself did and felt. That truth hurt so much so he had to project it to the other guys.

[exe knight]

Kiske in RR is another example of short term thinking. Kiske is great in the studio but to play live, RR had to get a new singer.

Are you actually saying that TT would have used Kiske as the singer if he wasn't bad live singer?

[icecab21]

kiske does not want to be a live singer going from his interviews. The way tolkki put it, new era was always supposed to be a project cd and tt decided later to make a band.

Since morko is all knowing I’m sure the true feelings and timeline of thought process and actions will all get cleared up.

Morko, since earlier you said the new material was going to be symphonic melodic power metal, can you explain why the band was saying the material was going to be more aggressive and progressive than previous material and what they should mean?

[browneyedgirl]

. For God's sake, open up your eyes and get a life!

I'm not going to lecture you, though. You are going to believe what you want to, and arguing with you is like arguing with a stone wall, you do not hear anything except what you want to hear.

Then what are you doing? I noticed many flaws in Mörkö's "objection", but I'm not very good at discussing in general so I'll stop here.

There is no logic whatsoever towards tolkki doing what he did with a prime purpose of short term monetary gain over a long term purpose of personal happiness. The basic fact is that tolkki gets more money in stratovarius then by starting a new band. In stratovarius he gave everyone an even share. In RR everyone is getting an even share.

Here's a bombshell for you guys: rumors have it that Tolkki did not even pay a couple of the people who performed on "New Era". ANYTHING.

That tolkki got a little more money from new era is a short term consequence of his non-satisfaction with playing with the others and not a primary goal from an otherwise content group member. If tolkki was more money oriented he would have given the name and keeped his royalty rights and then pressed on for future success under the name stratovarius.

You have it abit backwards.

They all faced suing their label, he ran out of money, gambled high, got short term money from New Era, ruined the band, lost himself and his old friends $300,000. He got the New Era money and Stratovarius got the legal debt.

To justify what he did he made many statements of "dissatisfaction" and "lcaking spiritualism". Calling it by the true names of greed, jealousy and resentment, was too mundane.

Flaws? What Morko posted is totally logical. Oh, his thought processes are totally clear, icecab21, nice attempt at trying to twist his posts. Since you like to nitpick&analyze every word people post, don't be surprised when people who know better come here to set you straight.

[stratohawk]

Why are people still dealing with all that shit? Now that "Strato" (or how the band is called...) have a new guitar player and are working on new material, why still grubbing in the mud?
After all this has calmed down a bit, I for myself am really excited about what the band will release! And after thinking Stratovarius has died, I am happy about that a band worth that legacy will continue the path.

[browneyedgirl]

Why are people still dealing with all that shit? Now that "Strato" (or how the band is called...) have a new guitar player and are working on new material, why still grubbing in the mud?
After all this has calmed down a bit, I for myself am really excited about what the band will release! And after thinking Stratovarius has died, I am happy about that a band worth that legacy will continue the path.

+5 best post, and advice I've read all day. Now, just to follow it.
Just have to keep in mind the terrific music which is to come.

[icecab21]

when tolkki decided to end the band in agust 2007, when did he dicide to make up his story that he told in may 2008 and what happend inbetween? or is the other way around of in may 2008 he decided to end the band in august 2007?

[Stratowarius]

Give up Icelorry. Why are you so interested in Mr Tolkki. He seems totally uninterested in you. He never answers any of your thousend questions and I understand him. You are kind of tiring and fatiguing to say the least

[icecab21]

this is not about tolkki at all. much more general than that

[hiro23]

let's stop the bashing of each other, it's not productive at all.

some people like tolkki and some people like kotipelto, we shouldn't compare fandom here.

I mean it's just as stupid as the 'my dad can beat up your dad" argument.

personally I think we should just wait to see what happens with the music, in the end isn't that what matters

[icecab21]

I’m not sure how asking about the sequence of events and a discussion of intentions vs. cause and effect would cause the interpretation that I have fandom of one over another or for either. I enjoy all their work and everyone is in a better spot now than they were because of past events. They have the power to make their future. I generalize a lot and can parallel really small issues to being part of what makes bigger issues. When the timeline of one side does not match the timeline of another, I find it a little interesting to get the stories of both sides about why their timeline is right. It’s not a focus on an isolated issue that does not have other uses and stories to compare to.

[AGAG]

let's stop the bashing of each other, it's not productive at all.

It may not be productive but it's at least half of this forum's entertainment!

[browneyedgirl]

let's stop the bashing of each other, it's not productive at all.

It may not be productive but it's at least half of this forum's entertainment!

I'm almost afraid to ask,:err: but, Whats the other half?

[AGAG]

Well BEG we always have emoticons...

:party:

[browneyedgirl]

Being a Mother, I feel like making some of these guys stand in a corner, but since I do my share of the arguing, I guess I'd take one of them. The SW corner, I guess.

[hiro23]

I wasn't talking about any one person when I said that I was just meant people in general.

I've just read a lot of undue angst in some of these posts is all, I'm just saying that since we're all stratovarius fans here there should be no reason why we can't get along.

I personally love it here and I hope I've at least made a few friends, If not oh well at least I've found a forum where I can express my views on the band I love.

[browneyedgirl]

I wasn't talking about any one person when I said that I was just meant people in general.

I've just read a lot of undue angst in some of these posts is all, I'm just saying that since we're all stratovarius fans here there should be no reason why we can't get along.

I personally love it here and I hope I've at least made a few friends, If not oh well at least I've found a forum where I can express my views on the band I love.

I think most of the arguing is good-natured and for the most part people get along well. This is one of the nicest Forums, friendliest, and all, I've ever been a part of. People can relax here, tell a joke or two, and enjoy the forum. Its informal and thats what people like about it.
I've been here 6 years yesterday, and if it had been intolerable I'd been gone along time ago.
I guess people feel they can just "let their hair down" here and thats why they can voice their feelings&what not. Thats good as long as its kept within bounds, and IMO, this forum is disiplined pretty good.
If someone gets too seriously bad, the "shunning/ignore" method usually works well, and people will get back in line quickly, because this is one of the nicest forums on the 'net in terms of interaction and all. People want to remain a part of it.

[TIMO TOLKKI]

There is no logic whatsoever towards tolkki doing what he did with a prime purpose of short term monetary gain over a long term purpose of personal happiness. The basic fact is that tolkki gets more money in stratovarius then by starting a new band. In stratovarius he gave everyone an even share. In RR everyone is getting an even share.

Here's a bombshell for you guys: rumors have it that Tolkki did not even pay a couple of the people who performed on "New Era". ANYTHING.

That tolkki got a little more money from new era is a short term consequence of his non-satisfaction with playing with the others and not a primary goal from an otherwise content group member. If tolkki was more money oriented he would have given the name and keeped his royalty rights and then pressed on for future success under the name stratovarius.

You have it abit backwards.

They all faced suing their label, he ran out of money, gambled high, got short term money from New Era, ruined the band, lost himself and his old friends $300,000. He got the New Era money and Stratovarius got the legal debt.

To justify what he did he made many statements of "dissatisfaction" and "lcaking spiritualism". Calling it by the true names of greed, jealousy and resentment, was too mundane.

Hi Erin,

You got it a bit wrong. The band was never suing Sanctuary/Universal, but the lawyer was negotiating a settlement which was finally agreed as 120 000euros
minus 30 000e legal costs. The band debt is then 30 000 euros divided with 4.
I really see no logic in not staying in a lucrative band with a "brand" rather than starting from scratch, but if you think I get more money that way, then what can I say. If I would have been happy in the band, of course I would have stayed.
If Stratovarius fans think the band means the same thing when I am not in it, then I am fine with that.
The band really belongs to its fans anyway. From my personal logic when I stopped the band was, as you probably remember, that there cannot be Stratovarius without TK or Jorg and logically then there could be no Strato without me. Now based on what I have read here it seems that people are fine with Stratovarius without me and that of course feels truly bad after being in it for 23 years and it being so big part of my life. But like I said, if that is what the fans want, then that is okay with me. What is truly sad is the unbelievable amount of rumors and hatred towards me.If that is what makes you happy, have fun...I am just going to continue my path with music elsewhere and I wish the guys all the best, luck and happiness with their new band. I see the whole thing from distance now and I just see that it was the best thing for everyone. It really was.

Cheers, Timo

[browneyedgirl]

Oh, stop it, TT. Morko is not Erin, and I think you know that. She cannot register here, even under a different nick. And, the writing style is not her at all.

1. Erin's IP is totally banned from here. She cannot get online here if she tried!
2. The last E-Mails I exchanged with Erin, Stratovarius is not the foremost thing in her mind&life at the moment! Trust me on that. (of course, TT, I know you won't. You are too paranoid.).
3. If you examine&compare Morko's writing style&Erin's, it is TOTALLY different! Morko is kind of formal, whereas Erin(Elvenrhapsody, girl)is "teenish" and very "casual". The difference is VERY obvious!
4. Morko's posts speak from personal knowledge, I mean, on-hand
up close&personal, right there knowledge of Stratovarius goings-on. Not a long-distance E-mail type of knowledge that, in theory, Erin would have.

Want me to go on, TT?

TT, Its unfair for you to blame Erin for the posts that Morko has made. You just want to discredit Morko&are using Erin in an attempt to do so.
TT, I suggest that you read all of Morko's posts with a clear mind, and you will be enlightened. Morko is NOT Erin Petersen!

One more thing. Since TT is not Forum administration any longer, he cannot see the IP addresses on the posts. So, his accusation of Morko being Erin is just that, an accusation!

[icecab21]

Let’s say we have a hen and a group of farmer’s that deliver eggs through a certain market. One day the hen gets dissatisfied with her relationship with the farmers and decides to cluck off. Half a year later the hen finds a new market to sell her eggs to. After she sells her eggs to another market the farmers lose a lawsuit with the market about the distribution of the hen’s eggs, even though the hen had stopped producing eggs with the farmer’s months ago. The hen is then accused of making up a story after the deal is broken that the hen was dissatisfied with being together in business with the farmers, yet the dissatisfaction months earlier is what caused the hen to decide to flock off.

[hiro23]

I wasn't talking about any one person when I said that I was just meant people in general.

I've just read a lot of undue angst in some of these posts is all, I'm just saying that since we're all stratovarius fans here there should be no reason why we can't get along.

I personally love it here and I hope I've at least made a few friends, If not oh well at least I've found a forum where I can express my views on the band I love.

I think most of the arguing is good-natured and for the most part people get along well. This is one of the nicest Forums, friendliest, and all, I've ever been a part of. People can relax here, tell a joke or two, and enjoy the forum. Its informal and thats what people like about it.
I've been here 6 years yesterday, and if it had been intolerable I'd been gone along time ago.
I guess people feel they can just "let their hair down" here and thats why they can voice their feelings&what not. Thats good as long as its kept within bounds, and IMO, this forum is disiplined pretty good.
If someone gets too seriously bad, the "shunning/ignore" method usually works well, and people will get back in line quickly, because this is one of the nicest forums on the 'net in terms of interaction and all. People want to remain a part of it.

Oh I agree, I love it here as well, and as I've said I hope I've at least made a few friends here, I was just wondering about some of the more hurtful comments on people.

I mean most people here seem fairly good people, but there are a few who seem to want to shoot people down as much as possible.

There is no logic whatsoever towards tolkki doing what he did with a prime purpose of short term monetary gain over a long term purpose of personal happiness. The basic fact is that tolkki gets more money in stratovarius then by starting a new band. In stratovarius he gave everyone an even share. In RR everyone is getting an even share.

Here's a bombshell for you guys: rumors have it that Tolkki did not even pay a couple of the people who performed on "New Era". ANYTHING.

That tolkki got a little more money from new era is a short term consequence of his non-satisfaction with playing with the others and not a primary goal from an otherwise content group member. If tolkki was more money oriented he would have given the name and keeped his royalty rights and then pressed on for future success under the name stratovarius.

You have it abit backwards.

They all faced suing their label, he ran out of money, gambled high, got short term money from New Era, ruined the band, lost himself and his old friends $300,000. He got the New Era money and Stratovarius got the legal debt.

To justify what he did he made many statements of "dissatisfaction" and "lcaking spiritualism". Calling it by the true names of greed, jealousy and resentment, was too mundane.

Hi Erin,

You got it a bit wrong. The band was never suing Sanctuary/Universal, but the lawyer was negotiating a settlement which was finally agreed as 120 000euros
minus 30 000e legal costs. The band debt is then 30 000 euros divided with 4.
I really see no logic in not staying in a lucrative band with a "brand" rather than starting from scratch, but if you think I get more money that way, then what can I say. If I would have been happy in the band, of course I would have stayed.
If Stratovarius fans think the band means the same thing when I am not in it, then I am fine with that.
The band really belongs to its fans anyway. From my personal logic when I stopped the band was, as you probably remember, that there cannot be Stratovarius without TK or Jorg and logically then there could be no Strato without me. Now based on what I have read here it seems that people are fine with Stratovarius without me and that of course feels truly bad after being in it for 23 years and it being so big part of my life. But like I said, if that is what the fans want, then that is okay with me. What is truly sad is the unbelievable amount of rumors and hatred towards me.If that is what makes you happy, have fun...I am just going to continue my path with music elsewhere and I wish the guys all the best, luck and happiness with their new band. I see the whole thing from distance now and I just see that it was the best thing for everyone. It really was.

Cheers, Timo

Timo,

I do want you to know that I never hated you, I do understand your reasons for leaving it's just that I would like to see both you and the band in a place where there isn't a lot of this back and forth.

I would love to see you successfull and I would love to see them successfull, all undue hate aside I guess in the end we fans are just scratching our heads wondering what happened is all.