THE LATEST REGARDING SAANA AND FRONTIERS

[TimoTolkki]

There has also been a lot of humoristic posts, for example a movie out of the suspected swindle. I don't think that should be taken seriously, since it hasn't been posted seriously. No one has attacked Tolkki there (at least before the provokations)...

I did take a look at that page and to my absolute horror and disgust I saw something like 150 000 views. And all out of nothing. I think it does prove that people really have nothing better to do but to find targets for their hate.
It is not the first time I am being attacked and I am sort of used to be being hated (which is kind of a weird thing cause I mainly write about peace,love and spiritual stuff). You might find that stuff humoristic but to me its a proof of human destructiveness and pure meaness. You take your pick: fatso, homo, idiot, crazy, lunatic, jesus, faggot, fat ass, fuck face, ugly, gay, dictator...I can continue if you want. It is just weird that for some reason all these people have a need to attack me and project their hate to me. I decided already sometime ago to fully concentrate my art and nature and leave this "wonderful" thing called internet behind. But then I thought that I do want to interact with my fans and that is the reason I am still here. Or mainly in myspace and in the near future in my new homepage and saana page.
So to sum this up: I am not a least bit interested in the trash that is being put out there about be and neither I am interested to start "correcting" or "explaining" anything concerning whatever there is going at particular time. I live my life outside that. To you who get the kicks out hurting other people's feelings I just say: have fun.

Love, Timo

[RonimuZ]

Well, I don't know how humoristic people consider the posts... It depends on your sense of humour. But I'd say the topic isn't to be taken too seriously. I wouldn't say people have been looking for targets for their hate, but more likely something to spend their time on. Internet, despite its size and possibilities is quite boring place after all.

Well, on the other hand the main subject has been the indistinctnesses about Saana, the problems you've faced and the music itself.

Additionally, many people were provoked by the user Jari Jokinen. Some of the messages posted by the provoked people cross the line, but considering the events surprisingly few did that. And, by the way, if that person really is someone simply playing around, he/she should be punished.

I wouldn't say you're hated. Some people don't like the music, which is natural because nothing please everyone at the same time... But no one can hate anyone because of music. Then there are of course all kinds of rumors about various things... Also, interest of tabloids is always a bad thing in that circle. Also caricatures are mostly made for fun... Well, the fact people are willing to make them tells something... I wonder if you've heard about some image boards of the internet, but some people are really sick.

Hmh, I think that it comes with publicity... Someone being known always irritates some people while other people like it... People are just too different.

It's sad that you thought this is all Internet has to offer... I personally have found love from Internet, and lots of very good friends... Including people from far away, of whom I would have never heard. But I guess you realised the good sides again, since you interact with your fans again/still.

I find the last part weird... If I was in similar situation, I wouldn't want people to be misled by rumours if I would be able to correct them. That would be kind of giving in to the "hate people". There are a lot of rumors moving out there, and some answers to the unanswered questions would clarify the situation a bit.

I'm here because I'm interested in what has really happened. With the album, record company, master theft, release, follow-up, Stratovarius, the sueing thing... All of those things. If some of the rumours are true... Who is really Jari Jokinen and why did s/he do what s/he did? I don't think anyone would do that as a joke, since lot of people were threatened and reputation of Goldenworks was harmed. Evil enough for a punishment in a court.

But anyway, concentrating on music is never a bad idea.
I guess though that the way things have gone will give most of the people negative impression, since there are only rumours. Maybe you will change your mind about that later, who knows...

[Carcass]

Fucking hell guys, go out and get some fresh air or something.

My thoughts exactly! I can't believe I'm actually posting this one. I've had few, I hope that explains it.

This thread compares to Bold & the Beautiful.

[Beast_Pete]

In a World where people are making money out of spreading lies, stealing things from each other and killing other people... well it's not a surprise that they attack those who try to spread love. You should simply ignore them. Of course it's not easy especially if they make other people believe all the lies.

[NeonVomit]

There has also been a lot of humoristic posts, for example a movie out of the suspected swindle. I don't think that should be taken seriously, since it hasn't been posted seriously. No one has attacked Tolkki there (at least before the provokations)...

I did take a look at that page and to my absolute horror and disgust I saw something like 150 000 views. And all out of nothing. I think it does prove that people really have nothing better to do but to find targets for their hate.
But then I thought that I do want to interact with my fans and that is the reason I am still here. Or mainly in myspace and in the near future in my new homepage and saana page.

Timo, I and most other people here really appreciate your interaction. It's something truly special.

Sure, some are out just to find a target for aggression and hate (hey, it's a lot safer for them than going out in real life and picking fights with people...) but yeah it's good that you don't care. I mean, most of the stuff is obviously pure rubbish but it's nice to hear you yourself set the record straight.

[browneyedgirl]

"Tolkki reported 12 crimes".

12??
I would really like to know what they are...all of them!

Well, I was bit sloppy translating the text... Jari Jokinen accused 12 people of insults. But apparently those people haven't been officially reported, to the police.

OK, I don't need to know names . I thought 12 crimes...like 12 various offences

Yep, I wasn't clear enough... Jari Jokinen didn't even post any names there btw. But, mr. Tolkki already said that Jari Jokinen is a hoax.

Well. Look at the bright side. All this talk&rumors spread all over the net means more publicity for the album, which will mean more sales. So, it will be alright in the end.

That has actually been one of the reasons that have made people believe that mr. Tolkki would have caused the stir by himself.

Er, slander is a crime. But, it is also the hardest crime to prove.

Yep... But Finnish law actually goes quite far with celebrities. Artists, scientists, politicians, companies... It's allowed to criticize them, and even suspect such things as there.

There has also been a lot of humoristic posts, for example a movie out of the suspected swindle. I don't think that should be taken seriously, since it hasn't been posted seriously. No one has attacked Tolkki there (at least before the provokations)... I'd say it's overreacting to accuse the people there of slander. It's been more like a talk of a group of friends in a bar... Lots of things said, harsh jokes, maybe even but tasteless ones... But nothing very serious.

But, didn't the controversy start before Jari Jokinen got involved?
When it was discovered a person nicked "vitunpuupaa" uploaded songs from the ALBUM to piratebay torrent site&it was discovered who this "vitunpuupaa" really was?

Also, its not a matter of people not having nothing to do. Its simply going to forums&topics are posted there, and people respond to them.

When anyone is well known they can become a target of others hate. Look at the world of politics. For example, I feel so sorry for Hillary Clinton. Recently she had her face doctored onto porno images&they were plastered on various right-wing conspiracy sites. All's fair, people seem to think.

[RonimuZ]

But, didn't the controversy start before Jari Jokinen got involved?
When it was discovered a person nicked "vitunpuupaa" uploaded songs from the ALBUM to piratebay torrent site&it was discovered who this "vitunpuupaa" really was?

Also, its not a matter of people not having nothing to do. Its simply going to forums&topics are posted there, and people respond to them.

When anyone is well known they can become a target of others hate. Look at the world of politics. For example, I feel so sorry for Hillary Clinton. Recently she had her face doctored onto porno images&they were plastered on various right-wing conspiracy sites. All's fair, people seem to think.

Yep. Post #1 is quite general about the product, the writer wonders if there will be any hard copies available etc.
Post #2 is about Tolkki maybe trying out something like Radiohead.
In post #3 the writer thinks the whole master theft was a swindle. (It was reported in Finnish tabloids). Translation:
"Stealing the master of whole record is so good promoing again. Thief just happens to conveniently steal the master, after which Tolkki shouts out loud in tabloids that "hopefully the thief doesn't understand that it's the album's master". After that Tolkki starts advertising that the songs are available in torrents."
So, some people had quite strong opinions in that early point too, after media had a small hassle around it.

Few following posters seem to believe the whole theft thing is a scam.
There's also a quotation from the removed MySpace post (in English)... That post speeds up the suspections.

Post of Jari Jokinen appeared as early as 20th answer - very quickly. 13:58 local time. First 2 posts were posted on Monday 18th, the third and fourth were posted on Tuesday night, and the rest before Jari Jokinen's post from morning to afternoon on Tuesday - after the Jokinen's post the post count flew through the roof. The users were bit aroused by the accusations that they wouldn't be allowed to talk about the rumors. That's what Jokinen basically did in the first post.

This post kind of keelhauled Jokinen's explanations.
This post (mostly in English), was maybe the final knock when thinking about reasons for the conversation other than Jari Jokinen. After that, Jokinen's participance and the fakers' actions inspired the conversation.

Mr. Tolkki, I'd say the imposters are clearly responsible for the replies and comments roused by their actions. Jokinen's post sure did provoke to some filthy messages, but that wouldn't have happened without Jokinen. You can't underestimate his effect. He should be caught and punished. Deceit, illegal threats and identity theft are serious crimes. He's responsible for the whole thing.

And yes, vitunpuupaa's identity "was found out" by the rumors. Someone google searched vitunpuupaa and found out that Tero Tolkki has used that nickname in yahoo group. In May 2006. (The group was deleted but that page is still in Google's cache, retrieved on Feb 15th)
Since the rumor wasn't corrected, it's only natural it got wild.

But... I'd still say that the thread has been mainly about the rumors. As far as I know, the board does not exist to slander anyone. It's for metal music discussion. Since Mr. Tolkki is quite big part of Finnish metal music, it's quite logical that the users want to discuss Tolkki's solo project too. And rumours about this project are nothing if they are rumors. It's allowed to talk about them. I'd also say that majority of the posters are critical towards the information they get. They didn't believe the rumors right away, but media and Jokinen's actions as a then-believed spokesman of Goldenworks did give reason to believe that there's something in some rumours, at least.

[NeonVomit]

I'm going to go outside for a bit of fresh air. Anyone want to come along?

[browneyedgirl]

I hope Jeff Rense doesn't get wind of all this!

[stratohawk]

Timo Tolkki is right. Why is everybody dealing with this garbage? I did not read a single piece of those "articles". Who cares? Are we waiting for the Saana- respecte new Strato-Album or not?

This thread should have been locked anyway.

[*Deni*]

There has also been a lot of humoristic posts, for example a movie out of the suspected swindle. I don't think that should be taken seriously, since it hasn't been posted seriously. No one has attacked Tolkki there (at least before the provokations)...

I did take a look at that page and to my absolute horror and disgust I saw something like 150 000 views. And all out of nothing. I think it does prove that people really have nothing better to do but to find targets for their hate.
It is not the first time I am being attacked and I am sort of used to be being hated (which is kind of a weird thing cause I mainly write about peace,love and spiritual stuff). You might find that stuff humoristic but to me its a proof of human destructiveness and pure meaness. You take your pick: fatso, homo, idiot, crazy, lunatic, jesus, faggot, fat ass, fuck face, ugly, gay, dictator...I can continue if you want. It is just weird that for some reason all these people have a need to attack me and project their hate to me. I decided already sometime ago to fully concentrate my art and nature and leave this "wonderful" thing called internet behind. But then I thought that I do want to interact with my fans and that is the reason I am still here. Or mainly in myspace and in the near future in my new homepage and saana page.
So to sum this up: I am not a least bit interested in the trash that is being put out there about be and neither I am interested to start "correcting" or "explaining" anything concerning whatever there is going at particular time. I live my life outside that. To you who get the kicks out hurting other people's feelings I just say: have fun.

Love, Timo

As the History tells us, lots of times great people are hated because of their ideals, unfortunately. That's a thing that really pisses me off... there's nothing wrong with you, IMO. So why do they have to attack you?

But don't worry, because there are also lots of people who are always ready to show their appreciation to you. That's the only thing that really matters.

[Plisken]

As the History tells us, lots of times great people are hated because of their ideals, unfortunately. That's a thing that really pisses me off... there's nothing wrong with you, IMO. So why do they have to attack you?

But don't worry, because there are also lots of people who are always ready to show their appreciation to you. That's the only thing that really matters.

yep i agree, there will always be haters but its the people who show their appreciation that matter, no matter how many there are. You my friend Timo already know this though or else you wouldn't be on this forum talking to us right now :O

[Equinox]

So. . . when is TheGround going to come online?

[TimoTolkki]

So. . . when is TheGround going to come online?

We decided finally to put the shop to http://www.timotolkki.com
All the logicstics and shipping etc are handled by GroundCom.
Pay attention to that site and the Saana site this week for more info and
trailer etc..