To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

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mayhem-for-all
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To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by mayhem-for-all » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:04 pm

We have the interviews of both sides here (in Finnish) I think these two explain it all and everyone is left with a chance to decide which side they believe in (at least I have)

Translating the head points in these two will take some time but I will edit them here ASAP


Santtu Lehtiniemi
http://suosikki.fi/musiikki/kitaristi-v ... t-levyille

(Lehtiniemi gave the interview by phone)
-It is true that Tolkki did not play his solos on Trinity and Age of Aquarius. It says in the cd that he did but he really didn't
-I even have witnesses
-It takes a lot of time to upkeep your playing skills and I used techniques that Tolkki doesn't even know.
-I don't know what Tolkki was doing when I was recording the solos. I recorded them in Helsinki with my own equipment. I was also alone when mixing the album. I am going to ask a statement form the studio 57 owner Pasi Kauppinen about the mixing when I was spending 20 hour long days in the studio mixing the album. Tolkki seemed to spend his time online during that.
-I just wanted to help Timo in making the records and he showed no loayalty at all. For example the Saana record that he made by himself and got really crappy response. I did not want that to happen to him again.
-The whole end of the summer I have been trying to get into contact with Tolkki to work things out but he ignored me.
-Timo has no money and no friends and that makes him act desperate.
-"Lehtniniemi will continue Revolution Renaissance with Gus Monsanto"
-Tolkki promised to pay me as "hired guns" usually are getting paid
-As they were running low on money I said I would like a guitar instead. In the end he gave me a used guitar that he was later trying to get away since he had promised it as a prize of a lottery to spain (now we know where it is/ may be :lol: ).
-in the beginning of the mixing we had 7 days for mixing and clean guitars, melody guitars, keys, bass of the ballad and drums were still missing from the album. The drum sound had to be redone because the Brazilian pros had failed ( :lol: )
-Considering that it is a real surprise we made it and Tolkki thanks me by cutting all contact to me and leaves all expenses to be paid. It is not even my wage it is just my expenses.
- Tolkki said to me I am just as big imposter since I have let all this happen.
- Pasi kauppinen comments: The studio has been paid. It was doen by Napalm records. Tolkki made it happen. We all know he can be a nice guy but he is still just a client. Right now Tolkki has rented the smae studio for 3 weeks with another project ( :!: :!: :!: :D ).
-Back to Lehtiniemi: Recording and mixing Trinity cost a few thousand € since they got some discount from the studio. Tolkki kept the rest of the money from Napalm for himself.
-He said he had no money and that everyone has to save some with expenses. He had the money but did not want to share it.
-Some childish posts have been written with my name in Stratoforum ( :roll: ) but IP-adresses prove it was Tolkki himself writing these messages.
-He has spoken about his mental illness in public and he has sent me threats in E-mail. In one mail he was flaunting about how he made all big medias shut up about it. And in other other messages he was saying things like "how does it feel to loose and no one believes a nobody like you"
- I am going to report this to the police. Fraud, threatening, identity theft and slander.
- It is sad how he used to make records like Episode with the same intensity.


So this is the Santtu Lehtiniemi side and it had some heavy offenses but wait for Timos reply. Even after reading all that it really made believe in TT again.



Timo Tolkki replys: I am being used
http://suosikki.fi/musiikki/timo-tolkki ... an-hyvaksi

(Tolkki made the interview in person)
interviewers comments before the actual interview:
-Tolkki has been busy and has lost tens of kilos with Atkin's diet and by going out for a walk ( :shock: )
-That is because TTs new group has photo sessions next week and name and members will also be revealed then.
-The band can truly be called the super group of power metal
- The band will perform in Finnish Metal Expo.
- Tolkki comments: it will be my firts gig in three years and I am hyped for it.
Now they are moving to the subject (Lehtiniemis accusations)
-At first I got mad as I saw his interview in this magazine. I don't want to spread negative energy around me but these were such heavy accusations I could not just let it go on. At first I thought that I should not take this to the court but I am now considering it.
-Interviewer: Is there any truth behind these accusations
-Tolkki: no
-Interviewer: Why does he say something like that then?
-Tolkki: He knows what it means. It is a weapon. It gives a face to this case. He says he has witnesses. I can say that too. It is true that I have been taking lessons from him ( :shock: ) He is very gifted as a guitarrist. He will get far and do well with his skills. I see a lot of my younger self in him. I was really reckless when I was his age.
- If he had played the solos would I be so crazy and admit? There is much more to this than solos.
(Tolkki now gives some papers and the Trinity cd to the interviewer)
-As you see all the information has been printed just as it should be and composers and producers have been given credits for their work. I told everyone long before the recordings that this band is not going to make money as we aren't paid much at all. No one is going to get any money out of this. Not even me. No one else complained about the costs. The high quality "Solid State Logic-studios" cost 500 € a day + Flights to Brazil and food. It is not that big sums of money we are talking about in here. It's not Santtus business if the studio is paid or not. He gets paid by "Teosto" and his other Copyright agencies (?). The studio wasn't paid because of the label. I agreed With Pasi Kauppinen that the bill is paid by our label and you can send it to them. If he hasn't been paid in time it is not my fault because I wasn't the one paying it.
(Tolkki shows a copy of the recording contract to the interviewer)
-The sum they got to pay all expenses in making the record and such was under 20000€ and Tolkki says that not much was left of it afterwards. He says he worked 800 hours himself in making of Trinity.
-Cds don't sell as they used to. New Era has sold 8000 copies, Age of Aquarius just 4000. In June I could not get a contract from Japan so I decided to put the band on ice. We could have went on tour with Sonata Arctica as a warm-up but that would have cost us 50000€ and we don't have sums like that.
- I agreed with Gus Monsanto and Bruno Agra that if Trinity does not sell well we will break up. Then came all the talk about money. I am being used as a lift to publicity.
- It is called "free Lunch". I don't believe that this will hurt my reputation in the world.
-Santtu is like a mirror image of me from the days when I was in his age. I was even worse until I experienced some sort of wake-up call seven years after.
- I met Santtu in 2004 at Goldenworks studio. Our close co-operation began in 2008 with Age of Aquarius.
- I don't know why wasn't he in on New Era. With AoA his role was just a recorder but on Trinity he was producing the album. With my help he has had the chance of working in big studios and mixing and trying things out.
- "Tolkki compares himself to the producer legend Rick Rubin"
- He just drops by at the studio to comment on the songs but isn't even physically there most of the time so calling me lazy is nothing compared to that and we even agreed on that beforehand. Even the booklet says that.
-"Tolkki praises Lehtiniemi for his strong character and vision"
-Thats why we started working together. To challenge eachother. I said to him straight that I don't need someone to lick my ass.
- one of the reasons to our quarrel is that he started growing agressive towards me as a producer.
He has the drive and that lead us to a competition and that lead to quarrelling. We sent some E-mails and I said that we can't work together in the future. We both have such strong personalities. Sometimes you just have to say good bye.
-When he said that he just wanted to help that came out of a bitter persons mouth who was looking for a revenge.
-Saana is a very dear album to me even if everyone hates it.
- His comment on Saana receiving a poor response made Tolkki laugh and he says that it sold more than all three RR records combined.
-I am not afraid of negative response. I have 30 years of carreer behind me I can't get sad because of media response.
- Before this just 2 medias have contacted me and I said no comments to both so that is for shutting up the major media.
- And as for the Forum ( :lol: ) there are users such as Frédéric Chopin, Leonardo da Vinci ja Johann Sebastian Bach discussing there. It is not even moderated so anyone can write anything. Still Identity theft is not even a crime in Finland (yet)
- I haven't written on stratoforum in years. Not since Jens Blocked my IP from the forum. I have other things to do than just write stuff on some forum.
- And about the mental illness. I haven't drunk alcohol in 4 years and I am taking lithium for the rest of my life since that takes the rollercoaster out of my mood. It saved me. I ahven't had a single manic-depressive episode in four years.
- And as for my weigh problems they weren't caused by the cure but just because my wife makes such good food.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Plisken » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:15 pm

<.<

Timo must have been pretty damn convincing for you to take his side after his history.

Im just going to wait unit Judge Jens gives his final verdict on the situation.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Intiaani » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:21 pm

Uh, this is old already? Timo's response came in the same day. Even though I don't think it's really that credible as a response. :P
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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Plisken » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:25 pm

yeah his response came out the same day but anyone who doesnt speak suomi (most people in the world) can read a word of =( So translation would be awesome! mayhem is cool for translating it for us.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by mayhem-for-all » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:35 pm

Plisken wrote:yeah his response came out the same day but anyone who doesnt speak suomi (most people in the world) can read a word of =( So translation would be awesome! mayhem is cool for translating it for us.
Thanks.
It turned out pretty messy so feel free to ask anything and I will make corrections.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by mayhem-for-all » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:38 pm

Oh and as for my own opinnion:
I really believe in Timo after reading the two of these.
I hope the best for him and wish him luck with his future projects and life in general.
Oh and If you Timo end up reading this: Thanks for the book! It is amazing and I really liked the story and how it was written. A touching experience like you music (especially in the past).

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Star_Ocean » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:50 pm

I am believing Tolkki on this one. Not sure about the whole "Identity Theft" thing, but honestly, if Santtu Claus is really thinking about pressing charges on Tolkki based on fake forum accounts, I think that is pretty sad.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Intiaani » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:55 pm

"En ole esiintynyt kolmeen vuoteen." 'I haven't had a gig in three years.' is also very true then? What about all those RR shows during the guitar clinic? :P The writer of those interviews asked Tolkki about that one gig with video material on Youtube, and Tolkki didn't count it as a gig. Didn't refer to any other gigs the band had - so they just didn't happen and Tolkki has really been off the stage for three years? :) It's all in Imperiumi boards.

Otherwise Tolkki is, of course, the most reliable person in the internet.
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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Balu » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:45 pm

I believe TT here. This Lehtiniemi guy sounds like a pathetic idiot.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Arnold Layne » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:42 am

I just don't know what to think.
Didn't Timo pull the same bullshit with Stratovarius?

Why is everyone losing their minds?
Arnold Layne

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Kosmo » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:50 am

Bah, i just can't trust Tolkki, the guy has pulled off so much shit. But i'm also not gonna side with some random dude. Things will get clear with time, i hope.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:55 am

Holy shit! Is that TimoToikki? It sounds so much like him in the end. :lol:

Oh man. This is never gonna end. Why can't we be friends? :cry:

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Arnold Layne » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:26 am

NeverendingAbyss wrote:Holy shit! Is that TimoToikki?
There is no Timo Toikki. It is TOLKKI.
How did you not know that?

Arnold Layne

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by browneyedgirl » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:24 am

:huh:
Tolkki's first gig in 3 years? ???

What about.........?
Oh, never mind, I don't care. Let's get a gander and a listen to this new group, we are all curious now. Maybe they will open up another forum or two. This is all interesting! :rvd:
:pop:

And who is Santtu really? ???

*Please be patient----I had a pretty bad head injury about a month ago. :buh:

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:05 am

Arnold Layne wrote:
NeverendingAbyss wrote:Holy shit! Is that TimoToikki?
There is no Timo Toikki. It is TOLKKI.
How did you not know that?

Arnold Layne
You haven't been in this forum for too long. He does exist.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Arnold Layne » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:38 am

NeverendingAbyss wrote:
Arnold Layne wrote:
NeverendingAbyss wrote:Holy shit! Is that TimoToikki?
There is no Timo Toikki. It is TOLKKI.
How did you not know that?

Arnold Layne
You haven't been in this forum for too long. He does exist.
Huh?

Arnold Layne

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by VictorTDD » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:22 am

mayhem-for-all wrote:In June I could not get a contract from Japan so I decided to put the band on ice.
I think it is true, Trinity was not planed to be released in Japan market originally. But the good news is that just this month the Japan label Marquee/Avalon has decided to release Trinity, it will be out on Dec 15, 2010, catalogue number MICP-10961.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by mayhem-for-all » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:05 am

I believe Santtu Lehtiniemi is just bitter.
I know Tolkki can do these things too but I really don't think he would these days. I think has got over it and is now working on the music.

Lehtiniemi simply sounds bitter. I think they really are trying to use Timos reputation to lift their project up. And it is a fact that Timos IP was blocked (Jens can confirm) so Santtu was lying at least a couple times so is there any reason to trust any other thing he said?
And bringing up Timos metal problems is clearly just an attempt to attack his credibility. I mean really We all know (especially the ones who read the book) that it is all in the past.

Lehtiniemi has just the distrust towards Timo on his side but in his arguments he goes too far. He is clearly exaggerating several times throughout the interview.

One interesting point is that it seems that Bruno is out of the future RR since he wasn't mentioned by Santtu so we will get exactly what we liked in RR the best: Vocals :lol:

And The way Timo explains the whole studio thing makes me see how Santtu was trying to pull it as an argument with not quite as heavy proofs.

If this goes far enough we will get the truth sooner or later. If Santtu backs down and does not sue Tolkki it will be a sign of eating up his words.

The best news are about the new project. And hey they are performing in Finnish Metal Expo so they will get to perform.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by JensJohansson » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:45 am

mayhem-for-all wrote:And it is a fact that Timos IP was blocked (Jens can confirm) so Santtu was lying at least a couple times so is there any reason to trust any other thing he said?
Timo hasn't been blocked since, well, (checks..)

Code: Select all

monaco STR &#91;~/forum.stratovarius.com&#93; > ls -l .htaccess 
-rw-r--r-- 1 strato pg1498124 664 2010-06-27 07&#58;32 .htaccess
.. well, at least since June 27. But I have a vague memory of changing something else then. If I remember I removed all the "blocks" earlier this year. It was when Timo made a sort of conciliatory video around Christmas last year. Since he has had so many abrupt changes of heart the past few years I am still a little bit wary myself, but so far the cease-fire and peace has held.

The general policy here is that we don't "out" people. If the police ask of course I would help them. So far the police has not asked anything and made me say...... "shit just got real"
mayhem-for-all wrote:And bringing up Timos metal problems is clearly just an attempt to attack his credibility.
Metal problems ... that is a nice Freudian slip. :lol: I do have to say I believe he has more of a metal problem, than a mental problem! Like the Sanctuary litigator put it at some point with characteristic British understatement; "he seems to be running hot and cold". Yes my dear Watson.. so it seems! :lol: I guess it's your basic love-hate type of thing.

Anyway, regarding the issue of the thread, I do have some sort of opinion but I decided not to comment in public. This is not my fight. And also, God knows I don't need any more fights.

I liked the three RR records, I honestly don't know if I care about 'who played what' to get really upset about it. If I was a party to this fight I probably would have smoke coming out of my ears. But like I said: this is not in any way my fight, it has nothing to do at all with me or Stratovarius. I really wish both Timo and Santtu good luck and happy musical trails.

I suppose you can amuse yourselves by discussing this issue back and forth, and turn it into some sort of "shroud of Turin" thing. :) I'm happy to supply the bandwidth! (Yes, it's technically me personally who pays the whopping 9 dollars/month ISP bill even though it's of course the whole band's site. Which, like most good things in life, is greater then the sum of its ISP bills.)

If you do, try to be as polite as you can?

In the end the thing that matters most is music.
Frank Zappa wrote:Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not music.
Music is the best.
Lastly, a good song from a good album about this rotten, wonderful music business which we all also love and hate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsYwZ4ukx54

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by RazielSR » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:29 pm

I remember than when I was debating/fighting in this forum, when the "Stratovarius is no more" thing appeared I was thinking that I could never get tired of defending Timo Tolkki. That man was the creator of the songs that made me feel the most incredible things in all my life while listening to music. And I see Episode album there, between my cd's collection and I ask to me how can an album contain that amount of my own emotions, emotions that I had while discovering the album.

I'm passionate, and because of this, at the same time very resentful.
Btw, a lot of lies in the forum/ip/users issue in both statements.

In short, I will never defend Timo Tolkki again, of course I'm not saying if he is right or not in this whole thing about the solos, cause I don't know it.

On the contrary, Episode means the same thing as always to me.

Some things change, some things stills the same.

The waiting for Elyssium and how good Stratovarius is now again, makes me laugh about all these stupid things we are debating here.


In shorter: what a load shit of crap, shit.
...Faster than light, higher than the sky, stronger than steel...We´re the legions of the Twilight...

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by shg » Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:20 pm

Hey Jens

Thank you for Kevin Gilbert-link! His music is new for me but it sounds really good!! :)

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by tcp » Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Hi guys. I made a more thorough translation of Santtu's part of the article. I'll try to get Timo's section done later on. Don't take the name of the blog too seriously, I just thought it was a funny title.

http://tolkkicantplay.blogspot.com/2010 ... redit.html

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by ext0l » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:59 pm

Even if his IP was blocked can't he just go to an internet cafe or something? :roll:

Didn't Tolkki say in a previous interview that Saana only sold 5000 copies?


I am just hoping that Tolkki's new group works out for him...

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Arnold Layne » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:16 pm

Does anyone know who REALLY played the solos on Trinity?

Arnold Layne

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by ggonza43 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:21 pm

What's the deal with this topic anyway? Do we really need to put an end to this? I don't want to :)!
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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Beast_Pete » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:52 pm

- His comment on Saana receiving a poor response made Tolkki laugh and he says that it sold more than all three RR records combined.
- And about the mental illness. I haven't drunk alcohol in 4 years and I am taking lithium for the rest of my life since that takes the rollercoaster out of my mood. It saved me. I ahven't had a single manic-depressive episode in four years.


aha... :roll:
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Akkor is van még remény,
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from the book, Nick's legend

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Rebel » Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:13 pm

the comment that loses it for me is that he "was promised payment in two guitars, gave me one, then tried to buy it back because of a fan in spain". It sounds like this has been reading the forums for awhile, and knows enough to make up a story that fits Timo's "insanity."

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Kecos » Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:47 am

a
Last edited by Kecos on Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by Arnold Layne » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:46 am

Kecos wrote:
Arnold Layne wrote:Does anyone know who REALLY played the solos on Trinity?

Arnold Layne
Are you saying you played the solos, or you know who really played the solos?
I know who played the solos.

Arnold Layne

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Re: To bring an end to the Tolkki vs Lehtiniemi scandal

Post by ggonza43 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:30 am

Rebel wrote:the comment that loses it for me is that he "was promised payment in two guitars, gave me one, then tried to buy it back because of a fan in spain". It sounds like this has been reading the forums for awhile, and knows enough to make up a story that fits Timo's "insanity."
No matter what Timo says, I think nobody can see him the same way we used to some while ago :?
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