StratoUnited

Here you can talk about Stratovarius and related bands. Language used is English.
Pancio
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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Pancio » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:50 am

Here's Tolkki profile, if you have an account please check by yourself, there are way too much posts for me to check again: https://www.facebook.com/tolkki777

About StratoUnited you can check his behavior here: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... oser=false where him, Nina and Tero started an argument with and vs each other (and a fan) where Nina Tolkki confirmed his mental status and Tero gave the reason to the fan telling Timo being bad with Strato.

Jens contacted him yesterday just to talk, and this is nice as long as Strato guys act polite, but they always did it that way.

Here is where he is talking about songtitles, lyrics and composition mocking Kotipelto pronunciation: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... oser=false just check the comments under the main post.

Here is where he's talking about copyright infringement and Frontiers:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... oser=false once again check under the post for the right spot

And yes, I know Timo is ill and I know his problems, but enough is enough.

P.S.: About pronunciation I don't mind Kotipelto's finnish accent, it's peculiar and it's not that bad at all and he can speak fluently english.
About Lione, well, I'm italian and I kinda hate his voice and his pronunciation, way below our national standards (already low).
Kakko is okay but I don't like Sonata Arctica nor his voice, too cheesy.
But yes, Tolkki in his maniac phase is like this, he need to bash everyone even the fans.

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NeverendingAbyss
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Re: StratoUnited

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:20 am

Holy shit dude I thought the facebook account was just a spam account, created by A10. :lol: :shock:

Damn. I didn't realize it was that bad. When you see someone's profile pic from 20 years ago, you know they are currently not in a good situation :?

Lione's English was really bad during Legendary Tales - Symphony of Enchanted Lands. He's not perfect now, but if I were to give him an award, it would be for best improvement. I like his timbre; really blended well with the music (at least back then).

TK's accent makes it who he is. I don't have a problem with it at all. I do, however, think that if I want to introduce Stratovarius to a friend, I get conscious about choosing which song to play because of it.

Then again, I don't have any friends. :roll:

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by DistantSkies » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:06 am

He is in the maniac phase. His behavior is borderline.
He give his telephone number, email and adress.

Probably in the South America tour he drunk so much and forgot to take his medicine?

It is sad, because he was one of the best metal composers ever.

I think he still can create great music, but cant make tours anymore...

Would be cool if classic Stratovarius would reunite to compose a album, and make some shows in Europe. But I think Tolkki cant make a big tour again...
A Stratovarius fan since 1996.

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robocop
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Re: StratoUnited

Post by robocop » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:54 am

NeverendingAbyss wrote:I think her name was Susie. I wonder if she has internet nowadays, or food for that matter. She was definitely the hottest girl (trans?) to post here, although no one really posts their pics in this sausage infested forum.

lol I don't think Jens appreciated waking up to goatse every morning. :lol:
:lol:

Reading all this Tolkki shit is just cringe because it’s like a broken fuckin record, lol. People get caught up in it, it’s exciting for some. Always the same topics, always with the drama and mental illness. There has to be a system in place that helps people compared to the US in Finland. So at least they don’t make a complete ass out of themselves online, but maybe they did try to intervene and he defied orders. Like for example I’m familiar with all social media spamming while unmedicated, I’m that way myself but won’t go into details, lol. There are day programs, there are more healthy alternatives then always falling back on the same shit and falling on your ass. You can look at it different ways but I know for me at least they had a court order for me and this is shithole county pa, USA!! In Finland the mental health system and healthcare is leaps and bounds better not even mentioning the high amount of education.

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:44 pm

robocop wrote:You can look at it different ways but I know for me at least they had a court order for me and this is shithole county pa, USA!! In Finland the mental health system and healthcare is leaps and bounds better not even mentioning the high amount of education.
You're really putting your best foot forward here aren't you :lol:

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:46 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:Holy shit dude I thought the facebook account was just a spam account, created by A10. :lol: :shock:
:roll: :lol: Not me. But yeah he is talking constantly with no filter and what's incredible is that he has thousands of fans telling him exactly what he wants to hear in the comments section.

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by robocop » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:06 am

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
robocop wrote:You can look at it different ways but I know for me at least they had a court order for me and this is shithole county pa, USA!! In Finland the mental health system and healthcare is leaps and bounds better not even mentioning the high amount of education.
You're really putting your best foot forward here aren't you :lol:
:lol:

Ever since I found Finnish metal I idolized them and their country. :oops:

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:14 am

robocop wrote:
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
robocop wrote:You can look at it different ways but I know for me at least they had a court order for me and this is shithole county pa, USA!! In Finland the mental health system and healthcare is leaps and bounds better not even mentioning the high amount of education.
You're really putting your best foot forward here aren't you :lol:
:lol:

Ever since I found Finnish metal I idolized them and their country. :oops:
I'm the same way. I actually heard a finnish accent on the street a few months ago and talked to the lad. I think he was left with the impression that Stratovarius is a household name here in the states. :lol:

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robocop
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Re: StratoUnited

Post by robocop » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:06 am

That’s great!! :lol: I would do the same. You should have said they gave Tolkki the noble peace prize. :lol: :lol:

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Pancio » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:06 pm

Well, Tolkki posted about him missing Timo Kotipelto as a friend.

Problem is: How about the constant bashing on his vocal duties in both studio and live sessions?

He also stated that he will be at Kotipelto-Kupiainen acoustic show and that's weird: can you imagine him stalking them across Finland just to talk about ProjectStrato and all his bullshit? OMG, I'm a little bit worried for the guys lol

About Tolkki mental status I believe it's difficult to deal with it: his wife Dominika is in Czech Republic (I believe) since her father died a couple of weeks ago and there are also some financial trouble bonded to heritage questions (and Tolkki gave to the czech tabloids a strange interview about his will to have 2 millions dollar and a manor) and also she is/was alchool and drug addicted.
Nina Tolkki lives on his own and seems to care about his father a lot but she need a break after all this years 'cause burnout syndrome.
I don't know much about his brother Tero, he was involved in Metal from Finland and other webzine but that's it.
This stuff means he is surely in touch with people who can help him and there's a therapist who look after him.
On top of that he is under heavy medication, for what I've read this summer, so it's a matter of personal behavior and will.

Unfortunately the involuntary treatment can apply only in certain cases and every national health service has to deal with it.

Last but not least, Finland is surely good in NHS, way better than States, Russia, and basically better than european average results, but it's not topping the chart and, tbh, is way lower than Italy, for example (think about it, Italy, almost a 3rd world country in some areas).

So yes, I love Finland and hate Italy (well, I hate italian people and our shitty governament as well) but sure Finland can improve and grow under some aspect :)

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by robocop » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:54 am

Interesting shit. I won’t reply to every subject pancio said but wanted to say they can lock you up in the psych ward if you’re a danger to yourself and others, which Tolkki may or may not be demonstrating online. Also, that law might only be for where I am.

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Empathica1928 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:19 pm

Many years ago Tolkki was talking mad shit about Timo's voice on Facebook. I stood up for Koti and said, "Timo, YOU wrote those vocal lines, YOU made him sing those, YOU had him singing these songs night after night, year after year" and Tolkki got mad at me and to this day still has me blocked one of his various Facebook accounts.

He needs to stay off social media. I swear his mental faculties are only getting worse.

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Motha-faka » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:04 pm

stratovarius united with all the stratovarius history members can be awesome

drums: tuomo lassila, jorg michael, and rolf pilve
bass: Jari Kainulainen, John Vihervä, lauri porra,Jari Behm
guitars: Timo Tolkki, Staffan Stråhlman, Matias Kupiainen
keyboard: jens johansson, Antti Ikonen,
Vocals: Timo kotipelto

(Wikypedia) lol

in a gig, with dvd included can be awesome

I think that the show can be more huge that Helloween :wink:
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Re: StratoUnited

Post by SentineLEX » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:56 pm

Motha-faka wrote:stratovarius united with all the stratovarius history members can be awesome

drums: tuomo lassila, jorg michael, and rolf pilve
bass: Jari Kainulainen, John Vihervä, lauri porra,Jari Behm
guitars: Timo Tolkki, Staffan Stråhlman, Matias Kupiainen
keyboard: jens johansson, Antti Ikonen,
Vocals: Timo kotipelto

(Wikypedia) lol

in a gig, with dvd included can be awesome

I think that the show can be more huge that Helloween :wink:
I remember Tolkki mentioned the first keyboarder they had was some other guy who wasn't Antti. Played keys on TT's solo album in 2002 and killed himself in 2005

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Motha-faka » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:59 pm

SentineLEX wrote:
Motha-faka wrote:stratovarius united with all the stratovarius history members can be awesome

drums: tuomo lassila, jorg michael, and rolf pilve
bass: Jari Kainulainen, John Vihervä, lauri porra,Jari Behm
guitars: Timo Tolkki, Staffan Stråhlman, Matias Kupiainen
keyboard: jens johansson, Antti Ikonen,
Vocals: Timo kotipelto

(Wikypedia) lol

in a gig, with dvd included can be awesome

I think that the show can be more huge that Helloween :wink:
I remember Tolkki mentioned the first keyboarder they had was some other guy who wasn't Antti. Played keys on TT's solo album in 2002 and killed himself in 2005
Wikipedia says that he die in 2005, yes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratovarius
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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Pancio » Sun Nov 03, 2019 3:02 am

Yep, Mika Ervaskari committed suicide in 2005 and he was in Stratovarius in 1987, I believe, so he wasn't an original member but a session musician for the first two demo or, maybe, some concert too.

About the reunion, no, it's not a good idea, at all.

Tolkki can't play, can't stay focused and no one want to work with him anymore.
Yes, a lot of south american fans are pushing him to death but, trust me, Helloween reunion is a totally different case since they're professional; Tolkki is no more, and it's hard to admit even for myself.

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Motha-faka » Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:50 am

Pancio wrote:tolkki can't play
well, i listen some solo disasters in his south american gig.

Poor tolkki, but this song is awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45jaAbaFn2A

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Jabi » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:05 pm

There's a new interview with TT in the Finnish (yellow) press. Here's the URL if someone wants to try it with a translator.

https://www.is.fi/musiikki/art-2000006294322.html
OMG, they fired Jari! Bastards!

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by SentineLEX » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:52 pm

TLDR new album next year about Jesus, he wants to try and get Michael Kiske to sing the leading role

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Jabi » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:09 pm

Actually he said he's going to first release a solo album in March 2020 and the rock opera about Jesus is going to be later.

He also made some Hitler jokes.

He hopes a temporary "Strato United" could take place so that they could release a live DVD with that lineup. But he says neither him nor the rest of them would want it to become permanent thing.

He said he regrets the publicity stunts.
OMG, they fired Jari! Bastards!

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Motha-faka » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:30 am

happen that timo tolkki is a fucking genius composing, maybe you can dislike his guitar dirty solos, but he do awesome songs

the most close album to timo tolkki in the new era of stratovarius was polaris

timo tolkki compose full albums since 1989 to 2005, in stratovarius, you need call to avalon, to RR, simfonia, and solist albums....

timo tolkki is hard to kick about music composition.

I know that the new stratovarius is more democratic, but i dunno, is hard to eclipse to timo tolkki era

included the new stratovarius continue playing the timo tolkki songs when they have

1. polaris
2. elysium
3. nemesis
4. eternal

4 albums and continue playing timo tolkki songs. I dunno, The new Stratovarius is fighting with a monster, timo tolkki is these monster
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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Pancio » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:20 am

I don't think so, absolutely.

Timo Tolkki once was a good composer, maybe the better songwriter along with guys from Blind Guardian and Gamma Ray (Helloween too but, tbh, without Hansen their level decreased a lot).
I love Dreamspace, Episode, Visions and Elements pt. 1 along with some songs from Destiny and Infinity but, once again, his compositions on most of the songs are pretty easy and similar to each others (power chord with 16th notes, fifth progression, poor harmonic and rhythmic structure, very square-built solos).
Don't get me wrong, I love old Stratovarius and Tolkki's compositions but it's not difficult to compose an average Tolkki song and even Tolkki himself started, after Visions, to recycle riffs and melodies.

I love straightforward music but, after ages of pure Power Metal, I needed something different and Kupiainen came in as the right guy at the right place: he surely can compose like Tolkki with ease (Polaris was way better than Elements Pt. 2, Stratovarius, Fright Night, Twilight Time and on par with Fourth Dimension, to me, and My Eternal Dream can fight on par with songs from Visions, Infinite and Destiny) and exceed that level (Elysium is in my top five list) on technical aspects (Tolkki can't play or compose what Matias composed but Matias can play and compose everything Tolkki composed), just listen to Nemesis.

And, after that, remember that Tolkki's solo career is full of shit: the RR material on Age of Aquarius was his last decent work until Avalon Pt. 1 and The Great Divide (and both contain banal compositions and some bland plagiarism).
In Paradisum wasn't good, Trinity wasn't good nor it was Avalon pt. 2 and 3 (even tho Tolkki composed only songs structure on the last one).

Oh, at the very moment he can't even play guitar, so he's done, plain and simple.
I'm sad because of that and it's hard to admit it since he was part of the Power Metal history and a pioneer, but he is not a musical genius. Surely he was influential and beyond the average level but people like Symphony X are simply better.
Current Strato can really play everything, from Jazz to Fusion, from Progressive to Power Metal and can compose easy catchy songs and difficult stuff like Out of the Fog and so on; it's a matter of taste but I don't think Tolkki can really compose anything new and fresh so he's out.



About the interview: I can read and speak little finnish and it's pretty easy to follow everything so it's clear he's not under therapy anymore and his idea to play with Stratovarius will be forever a dream, fortunately (it's a pain to see his playing skills nowadays).
About his project, the Jesus opera... Mh, I won't express myself, I'm not religious nor spiritual or interested in historical project about his life; Jesus Christ Superstar is enough.

Sorry for my long replies.

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by ZenithMC » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:56 am

Pancio wrote:Don't get me wrong, I love old Stratovarius and Tolkki's compositions but it's not difficult to compose an average Tolkki song and even Tolkki himself started, after Visions, to recycle riffs and melodies.
I completely agree. Tolkki's compositions were more adventurous during the old-school era (1989-1994) and into the early years of the golden era, but after that, his style become more boilerplate-esque. During the elements era, he occasionally pulled out a few new tricks and ideas.

What are "square-built solos"? Does that mean blindly running up and down scales, or something else? My overall favorite solos from Tolkki are on Twilight Time and Dreamspace, and my absolute favorite solo from him appears on Fourth Dimension's Nightfall.

He used to employ a lot of string tapping along with legato in his lead playing, as well as a catchy melodic idea mixed in, which sounded really cool and interesting, on those albums.

Something I noticed on the latter half of the golden era albums is that, during the solo, the harmonic tempo is incredibly slow (especially on Infinite). I believe this to be one of the reasons for why Tolkki's solos became focused more on pure speed, as introducing a good solo melody under that condition is much more difficult.

Also, certain sections of the solo eventually became less frequent in later albums, such as Tolkki playing a harmonized lead with himself (like on Visions) or Jens. In the early albums, when the harmonic tempo was very slow, Tolkki would introduce said section in order to liven up the solo a little more, such as in The Hands of Time.

During Infinite/Elements, he introduced the sparingly used wah-wah pedal to his tone, which he ended up using more on the self-titled album. He also used the pentatonic and blues scales a lot more frequently.

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Motha-faka » Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:07 pm

but the idea that stratovarius have an old mix with timo tolkki and new one with matias is a dream

stratovarius with 2 guitars.

happen that timo tolkki have a extraordinaire feeling, matias not have this heart playing the guitar sadly.

a lot people miss the timo tolkki songs in stratovarius :roll:

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matias can play stuff that tolkki cant, say pancio, but matias not have the gigantic heart that timo tolkki have.

for that Stratovarius cant delete the timo tolkki era

including matias playing timo tolkki songs is cold

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you have a giant difference :cry: :oops: :o
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Re: StratoUnited

Post by robocop » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:55 pm

The only thing I’d like to add basically replying to Pancio was: Even if the songs he made are all standard, follow the same routine, use all the same progressions, they still struck a chord with people and will be forever memorable. In the age of today where there’s a shredder who plays every style and multiples instruments on every block and on youtube, it’s easy to forget the time where he came up in. And he was top level, compared to the standard at the time, not that he was beyond the top shredders at the time, remember he also had amazing talent from the band members to back him up. This is just throwing the illness aside talk. And also, I’m surprised nobody said, “IF HE SUCKS WHY DONT YOU RECORD SOMETHING BETTER!!!” :lol: I’m not trying to ride the Tolkki dick here, it’s just give respect where respect is due. And you know for a fact those songs still hold up, even if they followed the same structures and progressions, they worked for what was needed at that point in time.

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Motha-faka » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:11 pm

robocop wrote:I’m not trying to ride the Tolkki dick here
:oops: this sound a bit...... gay :lol:

Image

we only need to "Fuck" jumping in this post and we are complete XD :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: StratoUnited

Post by valo_666 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:33 am

There was an interview to Jorg Michael from the Infinite era (I think) where he was asked wheat would they do if Timo Tolkki for some reason left the band. He answered that it would be easy to find another great guitar player but it would be impossible to replace the composer.

It would be hard to find that interview again but those words got stuck in my mind forever :shock:

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by robocop » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:12 am

Agreed. Shredders nowadays are a dime a dozen, playing anything 9000 beats per minute, can cover all the hardest songs, but they can’t write music. It takes time and effort to harness any songwriting ability, some just aren’t born with the talent. It’s why pop music outsources the songwriting because any old dumb bimbo bitch couldn’t write a tune to save her life. :lol: That’s why we have max martin. :D

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by Pancio » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:27 pm

I don't think so but I partly agree with you about the shredders scene nowadays.

Replying to Zenith: Square-built solos means, in my mind, a very static fingering pattern in playing scales which leads Tolkki in playing basically up and down scales in the same neck positions. Tolkki was actually a good player in it's prime but, after Dreamspace, he decided to concentrate on alternate picking only.
Then yes, there are examples of Tolkki playing outside and/or chromatic (I walk to my own song), but later he started going downhill with pentatonic and "emotional" boring solos.
Apart from that, I love his playing and his compositions but i'd rather listen to more variety solo-wise.

Replying to Motha and Robocop: Surely Tolkki released very good material but, tbh, I don't think he is a pioneer or a godly composer.
I think he is a very talented one, a good promoter and a good guitar player but very redundant after Visions.
I love everything until Elements Pt.1 and Stratovarius is my favourite band still, but i can admit there were/are better players and better composers.
Symphony X came later, for example, but Michael Romeo is far beyond Tolkki as a player and composer.
About Tolkki vs. Kupiainen I'm not going to agree with you: Matias is far superior as a player and a composer and I doubt he is "cold" (warm and cold playing is bullshit since it's a completely subjective thing), he is himself and one can like him or not.
Also Matias can play very melodic and emotional stuff which I prefer over a poor built song (Winter Skies solos is better, music wise, than half of Tolkki whole carreer), and I hate when I hear someone talking about having or not a "soul"; feeling is subjective and I cry while listening to Visions (Southern Cross) and Elysium so it's not a matter of soul, it's a matter of taste.

Then there's a problem about live show, since there are two kind of fans: the people who want to go to a concert for the love of the band and music, and people who know a couple of songs and want to listen everytime at the same two songs.
Personally I'm growing tired of Black Diamond and Hunting High and Low and I'm growing tired of almost the same setlist every show (I went to 13 of their concerts since 2005) but they need to attract new people and old people and, since they became famous around 2000, they need to play songs from their golden era to attract the occasional listeners (success it's not quality). But it doesn't mean their new songs sucks, it means people are stupid and don't listen to new music from a band, preferring a superficial knoweledge (and people prefer a straightforward POP melodic song since it's easier to follow, that's why a lot of people love HHaL or Eagleheart).
Also it's easier for them to rehearse the old songs.

So, there are a lot of ways to evaluate music but saying that Tolkki is better because of the soul and fame gained is stupid, you can like him more but, technical wise, he was and is way below other musicians but it doesn't mean he sucks, it mean he was able to start a band from a scratch and give it a worldwide fame with good music.

And, once again, he is not able to play anymore so StratoUnited must remain a dream.
But yes, it would attract thousand of fans and give to the crew a lot of money, that's why I think it's great they don't want to give the fans a shitty show even tho they could gain a lot of money; I think it's a nice example of consistency.

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Re: StratoUnited

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:01 pm

Pancio wrote:Tolkki was actually a good player in it's prime but, after Dreamspace, he decided to concentrate on alternate picking only.
Then yes, there are examples of Tolkki playing outside and/or chromatic (I walk to my own song), but later he started going downhill with pentatonic and "emotional" boring solos.
I love his solos like Mother Gaia, Destiny, Season of Faith's Perfection, Years Go By, When the Night Meets the Day, Anthem of the World. I don't agree that all of his solos were alternate picking / shredding, though yes- many were. I believe as a composer he has an incredible ear for melody.

I love everything until Elements Pt.1 and Stratovarius is my favourite band still, but i can admit there were/are better players and better composers.
Symphony X came later, for example, but Michael Romeo is far beyond Tolkki as a player and composer.
I find the last two Symphony X albums to be completely bland and unoriginal. Just skating by with their technical jobs and production. Symphony X in their heyday released two great albums- Divine Wings, and V. Also Twilight in Olympus and the Damnation Game. But I believe the golden era of Stratovarius (4thD/Episode through Elements Pt 1) does hold its own against Symphony X's best.

Yes, Mike Romeo is a more technical player than Tolkki- but I remember more of Tolkki's solos and melodies.

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