2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Here you can talk about Stratovarius and related bands. Language used is English.
Pancio
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2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Pancio » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:28 pm

Okay, guys, this will be a very long post since I will copypaste the 2008 statements by Timo Tolkki and the band itself.

This post is intended as an historical find, since most of the pages are gone from years, for anyone of you who don't know what happened back then and want to know.

The way to get back to the old pages is actually existing searching for: "Wayback Machine" or using the URL: archive.org

Anyway, feel free to ask me anything, I know that period pretty well and I'm able to answer pretty much everything that was of public domain; keep in mind that this informations must be used cautiously, don't ask to the band members or ex-band members, it was the past and the past, although interesting, must remain a way to improve the present and the future.

I don't think this post can be seen as a bad thing, knowing Jens and the band itself, but let me know if it's inappropriate.

Here we go:


Statement Nr.1 from Timo Tolkki to the fans of the band: 2 April 2008

Dear Stratovarius Fans
It is time to stop the silence and announce what some of you have already been speculating. Stratovarius is no more.
Last October I told the guys that I am stopping the band and told them the reasons why. This letter is addressed to you, Stratovarius fans, who have supported the band for so many years. I first thought that I would write just a very generelized, typical music business statement that basically never says anything. Then I decided that you deserve to hear at least parts of the truth what has been going on behind the scenes so you will be able to understand my decision better.

All the time, since TK and Jörg joined the band, there have been tensions and negativity flying around. This has been concentrating on me, TK and Jörg. The reasons Jari Kainulainen was fired some years back were so absurd that I am not even try to explain them here. If I write a book one day, maybe then. Anyways, I think the seeds were planted already back then, something like 12 years ago. There were many confrontations, Jörg has been complaining to me about TK and TK complaining to me about Jörg. At a times it was a mess, although of course, it never would show outside to the fans. It is not my intention to disrespect TK and Jörg here. They are both fundamentally good guys. Things just sometimes happen and relationships go to directions we dont want them to go. Its like a divorce, nobody wants it to happen but sometimes it is best for all so everyone can continue their own lives. Plus I want to tell how things have been behind the curtains. You always only see the good side anyway, you dont really know what is going on.

We had amazing years, 14 records, 6 world tours with over a thousand shows all across the Globe, 3 gold discs, a Finnish Grammy and almost 3 million records sold. I have arrived to my decision after careful, long and rational thinking of over a year and I know it is the right way for me. I just felt so bad being in Stratovarius. Something was terribly wrong in there and nobody seemed to care.

The countdown really started from the last Stratovarius album in 2005. At that time the atmosphere in the band was extremely weird. I had spent most of 2004 recovering from my nervous breakdown in April 2004 when I was hospitalized. It was at this point when things started to change. Jens supported me immensely during 2004 with his phone calls. We then did that Stratovarius album, which I think is an awful album and went for the subsequent tour production. By that time it was apparent to me that things really were bad. Nobody seemed to care about anything. I had the idea to use projection screens and for that, you need to produce graphics. I planned those and basically the whole show. Nobody seemed to have any interest in it. It was more like, the less the better. The atmosphere at the rehearsals was awful. Lauri Porra who had just joined the band was wondering what is going on with this band. Jörg Michael came straight from Saxon to this tour wearing a Saxon shirt during most of the shows. His attitude for most of the tour was extremely arrogant, pretty much towards everybody. But especially towards me and TK. And TKs attitude towards me was lukewarm and polite, but I could sense the hostility. Of course we as professionals put on very good shows but it was more craftmanship and rehearsed performance than a great united band playing emotionally from the heart. I think TK was always very bitter about that he could not get his songs and/or lyrics on Strato records. I did not understand this really cause he had/has his solo band where he could do what he wanted. It took me many years to learn to simply tell him that I dont like his songwriting and lyrics and that the main difference between me and him is that I am writing songs that end up being Strato songs while he is trying to write Strato songs that end up being Kotipelto songs, which means they belong on a Kotipelto record. It is not easy to say to someone that you dont like his music. You guys and girls dont like all music, neither do I. Neither does TK. I am not anyone to tell what is good and what is bad music, but I do can tell what kind of music I like. And TKs stuff just doesnt do it for me. I do have to say that I think he has written many great songs as well during his solo career. Plus he probably would say the same things about my songwriting. We are just very different. He has a very different sense of humor than I have. Maybe the weirdest thing in Strato was that we never really were friends in the band. I visited TK in 12 years perhaps 5 times. To me Jens was the closest in the band and lately Lauri Porra, who is a wonderful guy. But none of use was really ever real friends. It might be surprising to you but that is the truth.

The tour continued and Jörgs drum roadie told me drunk that Jörg is leaving the band after the tour but he is doing the tour cause he is a businessman. I guess you could say that Jörgs attitude pretty much culminated what he said to me in Seattle on that tour. He told me that he thinks the band is over. We tried to record, 3rd time, a live DVD in Sao Paulo but could not use the shootings because we played so badly. It was just plain awful. Although we rocked lot of crowds on that 120 date world tour, still the overall vibe was very much like going to work. Not for me though. Not still at that point. But it felt to me that nobodys heart was in the band and it was just for the money.

The tour came and went, we survived and Jörg didnt leave the band. But it was the weirdest tour I have ever done. Very succesful, but still it felt like forcing something. It was not fun. It was sad.

The next thing I had in mind was to write a really fresh good old fashioned Power Metal album in the vein of Visions. I felt our fans deserved it and I felt it was the right thing to do. This was the infamous RR album. The songwriting was flowing and the songs sounded really nice and melodic and very much like old Strato. I was all the time on my toes because of the situation in the band and I was anticipating difficult recording sessions. Anyways in late 2006 we completed a demo tape containing 10 brand new songs. I wasnt too happy about the demo, but it did serve its purpose, to present the songs to the record company. I then booked 12 days from Sonic Pump studio in Helsinki for March 2007. This was the weirdest session I had ever had. Jörg was all the time talking about that we have to get the Visions hunger back, although I dont think he himself had that hunger. Nobody had. The session was nothing like the recording sessions before. Nobody had rehearsed the songs really and everything sounded pretty awful. I tweaked the drum tracks for a week and gave up. It was around this point when I really was starting to think why am I keeping this alive when its so difficult. I remember how much time, energy and money we put to Elements 1. There was nowhere to go after that anymore without just repeating the past. I do know that TK didnt like that album at all, which yet again shows the difference between him me. It doesnt mean that he has to like it of course, but to me Elements 1 represents the peak of the Strato evolution and perhaps I should have stopped the band already then.

Last year, 2007, was the turning point for me in many ways. I felt better, but regarding Strato I felt worse. There were fights about everything, even about trivialities, which really annoyed me. A lots of fights. A lot. I had to use a lot of energy to try to get merch to Stratoshop, which was on the shoulders of Jörg and TK, because there was no merch for people to order but still they were ordering cause the items were on the page. The SSL certificate that proves the site is secure was expired a year ago, I tried to get that fixed, could not do it because I wasnt authorized to do so. The most popular items from the shop were sold out and Jörg refused to print more. I could not understand any of the things that were going on. At the same time, I was having more fun than in years with my rock opera Saana. When I was making that, I realized what was lacking in Strato: the enthusiasm, creativity and fun. It wasnt like that in years. Saana gave me hope that there still could be something new for me to learn at this age and it gave me a whole new world of things and a start for something new. Plus I knew I had some really cool new Metal songs in the works.

We did have 8 festival shows during 2007 and it was then, when I was standing on stage in Wacken Germany before 45 000 metalheads , when I fully realized that this band is over. I remember clearly playing those same old songs we had played so many times before and a feeling came to me that told me: this band has no soul anymore. I looked around and I felt like I am part of a play that has a script or machine and that there is nothing fresh and exciting happening anymore. The band sounds awful. Nobodys heart was in it. It was just the same old song. Jörg worked at this point full time in artist production company doing tourmanaging and he was working at Wacken too. He literally came to play from production office and returned there after. Everybody was polite, on the surface, but there was no friendship, all I could sense were the underlying tensions of relatioships that had come to an end. I had felt during that year that the band existed only for one reason and that was the money. I had felt that this was the main motivation what kept Jörg and TK in the band still despite of the underlying tensions. While standing on Wacken stage to my absolute horror, I understood that also for me that had now become a reality. I was keeping this alive for money. It was then when I decided that I must stop the band.

So it was during this show, I decided that its over. I was still thinking about everything but I felt that for my future, it was the only logical thing to do. I did not want to fire TK and Jörg because they are and have been as much part of Strato as I have been and it would not be fair to the fans. I then decided that it is best to lay rest what is already dead. I informed guys by email in October 2008 about my decision and explained in detail my reasons hoping they would see my points and agree what is real. Only Jens and Lauri answered. TK and Jörg did not even answer to that mail. Jens understood my decision, Lauri did not. I understand him, he got a taste of what it is to be in a succesful rock band touring the world. It is not easy to give that up. He did fail to see my side of the story. That TK and Jörg did not comment anything really speaks for itself. I did want to finish the Stratovarius saga with style and naive as I am, in February 2008 I wrote a mail to the band and proposed that we would say goodbye to our fans with style and do one more tour. I wont go into details here, but this time I did get a response from TK and Jörg. I wished them well and wrote back that I can see there cannot be any more tours with this band because of the hostile reactions.. So that was that. I felt good about my decision, but not good that out of legal reasons I have had to wait for this announcement for so long.

Then I thought that since I have all these great songs in my hands, I wanna put these out somehow. So I contacted a few friends, we laid the basic tracks in the same place where the Strato RR session had taken place a year ago and it was just flowing. There was happiness. There was energy. The songs sounded great. My friends Michael Kiske and Tobias Sammet agreed to sing on the album. I decided to form a new band called REVOLUTION RENAISSANCE which would continue the legacy of Stratovarius. In this first album I just wanted to release these songs finally so I did not have time to search for a permanent line up. I am now, so if you are interested, drop me a mail! The album comes out 6.6.2008 through Frontiers Records.

I am excited and happyfor the first time in years. I can hardly wait what the destiny has in store for me with my new band, projects, songwriting. I am living a very creative times. I have my production company and I am doing lots of different projects and not only metal but basically anything that moves me.

First I would like to, despite of all, thank Jörg, TK, Jens, Jari, Lauri, Tuomo, Antti and Jyrki for these 22 years. It was a quite a ride. I wish Jens, TK, Jörg and Lauri the very best with whatever they decide to do in their life and success with it.

Last but most importantly, I want to thank you Stratovarius fans for your love and support and for the great life. We will be seeing each other in some ways, somewhere. You will always remain in my heart.




With Love, Timo


Can be found at: https://web.archive.org/web/20090223160 ... -04-02.php


Statement Nr.2 from the band to the fans of the band: 7 May 2008

Tolkki's main motivation was greed

Timo Tolkki published a statement» on on April 2 this year. The other members of Stratovarius would now like to set the record straight. You can't argue with someone's perception of things, you can just explain how you see things differently.
The confrontations, fights, incompetence, tensions, negativity, bitterness, hostility, disinterest, bad musicianship, and unfriendliness that Timo described were never there. He constructed this alternate reality around these simple and for him painful facts:

1) The band's momentum has been slowing since 2004.

2) The media chaos of 2004 made him lose a lot of trust and respect both within and outside the band.

3) Stratovarius' label Sanctuary had severe financial problems from 2005 on. It forced us to start a legal process at the beginning of 2007.

If you live your life through other people's eyes, declining sales or a perceived loss of power are matters of deep, stinging personal humiliation.

Other sad facts remain. The legal fight left us without a way to make a new album, and financially strapped. Timo's main motivation for what he did was greed, not issues of friendship or art.

In the summer of 2007, he presented the Stratovarius/ Revolution Renaissance demos we had all financed and recorded to Frontiers Records, and signed a recording agreement for a solo project. Unbelievably, he promised Frontiers that he alone could (and would) stop Stratovarius from being active for the duration of the R.R. project, for marketing reasons. In exchange for this, Timo alone was paid 154,000 US dollars.

He did this behind our backs, as we were deep in pursuit of Sanctuary legally with a large legal bill. He still hasn't had the guts to tell us what he did. We pieced it together from various press releases of his and scattered email correspondence.

In October he sent us a mail saying he didn't want to continue, a quite impersonal way after having been in the same band for 12 years. He explained that he was tired of Stratovarius, and would concentrate on things like his opera. We had known for some time he really hated playing live.

He did not mention anything about his Frontiers deal, which placed the rest of us at great financial risk. He very clearly asked that we wouldn't contact him and try to talk him out of it, which we all respected. He would later make much of the fact that nobody tried to talk him out of it.

This year, Sanctuary agreed to settle, but Timo's announcement and Timo's announcement alone ruined that, leaving us with a debt of 54,000 US dollars. The total loss is around 346,000 US dollars. There was no reason for the timing of his announcement other than some foolish belief it would make the promotion of Timo's project record a bit easier. What he did to the rest of us was stupid, selfish and more than disappointing to us since we all stood shoulder to shoulder with him financially in 2004.

Then late January, surprisingly, he proposed us playing as hired guns on R.R. (turning it into a Stratovarius record), and doing a tour with Jari on bass. Apparently he again had financial problems due to his failed opera project. He then quickly dismissed the idea himself.

In short it's not so much a story of simmering discontent leading to a wise and respectable decision. It's definitely not a story of naivité. It's the story of Faust, the story of madness, of a band's natural and slow decline, but in the end something mundane: the story of a supreme narcissist going broke and betraying friends of 12 years who helped save him a few years earlier.

Hopefully this explains the situation a little bit. Sorry if it is long on business crap, and short on humor or music. This was a terrible, disappointing blow to us.

We would like to thank our fans who make it all worth it, and despite it all, we would like to thank Timo for the past, the nice music and the good moments.

The rest of us want to make clear that we are doing great and that we will continue making music together, because we care about each other and we care about our fans. We have grand plans indeed, and we will have some very interesting news in the months ahead!

-TK JM JJ LP
the remaining members of Stratovarius

Can be found at: https://web.archive.org/web/20090412041 ... 008-05.php

Statement Nr.3 from Tolkki to his fans and to the fans of the band: 7 May 2008

MY RESPONSE TO THE STRATO STATEMENT
I am very surprised about this. But my original statement in www.tolkki.com is still all I have to say about this. There are several outright lies in the Strato statement and it is also clearly written by Jens alone. I will make some comments about these here:
"If you live your life through other people's eyes, declining sales or a perceived loss of power are matters of deep, stinging personal humiliation."

Well I dont really live my life through anybody else's eyes. Neither I felt "stinging personal humiliation". I felt sad.

"Other sad facts remain. The legal fight left us without a way to make a new album, and financially strapped. Timo's main motivation for what he did was greed, not issues of friendship or art."

My main motivation was not greed, it was what you can read in my statement. It's true of course that my decision was a hard one and left others on their own. But sometimes in life you have to make decisions based on your own well being and what you want to do.
All the guys have a stable income from other sources, Jörg is running a booking agency, Kotipelto has his own band and record label, Jens has a record label with his brother and Lauri has loads of work as a bassist. By the way, just yesterday Lauri sent me an SMS where he was inetersted n joining RR and he was asking questions about who will be playing in it.

"In the summer of 2007, he presented the Stratovarius/ Revolution Renaissance demos we had all financed and recorded to Frontiers Records, and signed a recording agreement for a solo project. Unbelievably, he promised Frontiers that he alone could (and would) stop Stratovarius from being active for the duration of the R.R. project, for marketing reasons. In exchange for this, Timo alone was paid 154,000 US dollars."

I didnt present any Stratovarius demos to Frontiers at that point. Btw I paid for those demos and I mixed them without any fee in Sonic Pump studio, which alone would cost 1000. The contract was signed after I broke Strato. There were 2 contracts: One for Saana, my solo album and one for RR. I of course felt no obligation to tell anything about my personal life/business to people whom I have left behind.
Why should I do that?
Frontiers demanded the Stratovarius clause because they probably thought that I might put Strato back again. It simply says that as long as RR contract is valid and active, there cannot be any Strato records, which was totally okay for me since the band was already broken up. Why should that be a problem? The money I dont comment other than that's a blatant lie. So to make is clear: First I broke up Strato and finished my Opera and then I started thinking about forming a new band.

"He did this behind our backs, as we were deep in pursuit of Sanctuary legally with a large legal bill. He still hasn't had the guts to tell us what he did. We pieced it together from various press releases of his and scattered email correspondence."

Again, these were my personal business things after the Stratovarius was already broken up.
So nothing behind anybody's back.

"In October he sent us a mail saying he didn't want to continue, a quite impersonal way after having been in the same band for 12 years. He explained that he was tired of Stratovarius, and would concentrate on things like his opera. We had known for some time he really hated playing live."

Another lie. The mail was extremely long and I asked them to come back to me after reading it.
At that point I did and was concentrating in my opera. There was no plans of RR at this point. I was fully in the production of my Saana opera. I told in the mail the same reasons I am telling in my www.tolkki.com statement.

"He did not mention anything about his Frontiers deal, which placed the rest of us at great financial risk. He very clearly asked that we wouldn't contact him and try to talk him out of it, which we all respected. He would later make much of the fact that nobody tried to talk him out of it."

I could not mention anything about the Frontiers deal because there was no Frontiers deal at this point. I for sure didnt want "anybody to talk me out of it". Why would I want to do that after I just broke up the band. And Jens has all the time been sending me emails and we have been talking on the phone with very friendly terms. Now I see that this all has been just a big lie.

"This year, Sanctuary agreed to settle, but Timo's announcement and Timo's announcement alone ruined that, leaving us with a debt of 54,000 US dollars. The total loss is around 346,000 US dollars. There was no reason for the timing of his announcement other than some foolish belief it would make the promotion of Timo's project record a bit easier."

Yes, this is very unfortunate, but Jens is making a mistake by assuming that RR is a project.
It is a band as everyone can see: I am looking for musicians.
I waited as long as I possibly could in announcing the RR band, but the reason why the legal case did not succeed was that Strato management and lawyer could not get us out of the deal although they had ONE AND A HALF years time to do that. That is a very bad peformance for a simple case if the record company takes the option or not. I was not informed about anything at this point about the legal case although I was asking constantly.
And I knew that if I would release RR without telling about Stratovarius break up, everybody would just take it as a project, which it is not. So these are the reasons for announcing the split before the RR release.

"Then late January, surprisingly, he proposed us playing as hired guns on R.R. (turning it into a Stratovarius record), and doing a tour with Jari on bass. Apparently he again had financial problems due to his failed opera project. He then quickly dismissed the idea himself."

This is a lie. I asked them if they would like to do a farewell tour of Stratovarius, as I have explained in my statement. It was nothing to do with financials, but as a respect towards Stratovarius fans. My Opera wasn't even out yet, so how could it have failed at that point?
It is now taking off nicely and I am happy. I dismissed the idea of farewell tour, that Jens was happy about, but Kotipelto and Jörg in a very hostile way rejected.

"In short it's not so much a story of simmering discontent leading to a wise and respectable decision. It's definitely not a story of naivité. It's the story of Faust, the story of madness, of a band's natural and slow decline, but in the end something mundane: the story of a supreme narcissist going broke and betraying friends of 12 years who helped save him a few years earlier".

Well I've never been called a Faust before so at least that's a new one. I don't consider that I have betrayed anyone, but that I have stayed true to myself and my beliefs. Also from the very beginning I shared all the income from every source equally between all the band members.
That doesnt sound like greed to me. Bitter it does sound.

It is not a story of Faust, it is a story of a rock band and this statement verifies all those things I am writing in my statement. There is hate. There is tension. All those things were and are still there.
The statement ends "the remaining members of Stratovarius". Although I own the name and all the rights to that, I have no problem if the guys want to continue the band without me.
I am very happy with RR getting interesting fresh musicians and doing loads of creative stuff in my life. Too bad it had to end this way.

Can be found at: https://web.archive.org/web/20081219223 ... -05-07.php

Statement Nr. 4 from Tolkki to his fans and to the fans of the band: 9 May 2008

Away for a while
Just wanted to let you know, that I will be away for a while. I need to get away from this negative and hate filled atmosphere of the last days.
The statement of Jens & co hurt me deeply with its aggressiveness and hate, not to mention the lies they wrote to make it look like totally my fault. I have been very down the last days, so I need some time alone.

I still cannot believe that it is not possible to go separate ways in a civilized way. My statement was in my opinion like this. From their statement, all I get is this enormous hate and bitterness towards me plus that they made it public even including figures there. Being accused of being greedy narcistic Faust by someone I talked on the phone in the last 6 months countless times laughing like before and making jokes, comes as a very heavy blow. I thought Jens was my friend.

Instead of staying what I considered a very sick band and getting all that money, I decided to start from scratch without anything, even members. And knowing I will have to pay lot of money too from the legal costs, but that was irrelevant at that point, because I gave the management and lawyer all the time I could and 60 days before the release of my new band, I had to come to public about Stratovarius.

So the greediness attack comes as a total surprise to me against the facts and also their lies.

Mainly about the timings. The idea for RR was born and the contract singned long after Oct 2007, when I broke Stratovarius.

Since it really seems that they will continue under the name Stratovarius, that I own and that I have contracts with each of them, I have to of course think what should I do?

As clearly as there cant be Strato without Kotipelto, as clearly there cannot be Stratovarius without me. That was my band totally since around 86, ten years before anyone of these guys joined the band. I think there is something else behind this and I dont believe that they really will continue under that name. That would make them look like they would just want to use the bands name to make money. Why not start from the clean table like me?

In any case, my first initial thought was to let them use the name, but now I have started to think that since all this hatred is projected to me and the obvious reasons to use the name would be just financial, why should I give it to them. Stratovarius was a band that I controlled in a very similar way than Tuomas of Nightwish up until I got very sick in 2004. The things started to be taken away from my control and that lead actually to the demise of the band. Do you think Nightwish could exist without its soul? I suppose it could, but again what would be any other point, than capitalize the name?

With these thoughts I leave you now for some time and come back with a bit more clear head.

Thank you for your support and take care of yourselves.



Love, Timo

Can be found at: https://web.archive.org/web/20081219223 ... -05-09.php

Statement Nr. 5 from Tolkki to his fans, to the fans of the band and to the band itself: 20 May 2008

The money hungry corporate kiss of Judas of Jörg Michael, Timo Kotipelto and Jens Johansson
I am writing this in Canton, a small city in China after a week from the statement the ex-members of Stratovarius published. Yesterday an earthquake killed over 50 000 people 1500 kilometers from here. That actually put things into perspective for me regarding the recent events. My mind has calmed down and I am able to think more rationally about the whole sitution. I am going to take you on a small journey to some key events that hopefully are enough to make you understand what kind of things have been going on. I simply cannot just be silent after that slanderous attack towards me and my music that the other guys launched some time ago. However after this, I will continue my life and leave this behind.
My memories go back to the year 1984 when I received that phone call to join Stratovarius when the guitar player/ main songwriter had been fired, and when we started building up the band from scratch. I started singing and composing songs that were totally different from those Ozzy-influenced blues songs the band had been playing for 2 years. We worked hard, played every day, made demos and finally we made our dream came true: we got a record deal with CBS. Fright Night, Twilight Time and Dreamspace followed each others. It took over 8 years before any of us saw any money from the record sales.

At this point Stratovarius had become my band, I was the Kapellmeister and the band was my symphony orchestra. Together we made some truly memorable music. At this point I worked alone full time as a manager and a booking agent for the band. With this enormous amount of work, the foundation was laid for the later success of Stratovarius. I was never paid for this work and not then and not after that have I ever considered money to be the reason why I am a musician.

The much-critizized firing of Tuomo Lassila and Antti Ikonen were simply due to a non-dedication to the bands activities. They both were not at all into heavy metal and I dont think they ever thought that the band could become so successful. They didnt like the direction the music was heading. It was another painful decision that I as a leader of the band had to do. And it was for the better. They could continue to do what they did best. Today Tuomo Lassila is a respected Classical percussionist in a Symphony Orchestra. Still I am looking at that time with a certain nostalgia, with a certain innocence. There were no big corporate deals or managers breathing down my neck to make that hit record fast. We played to very small audiences, sometimes to seven people, but it didnt matter, it was fun. There was not much money involved, but more than that, there was fun and there was creativity. And there was friendship too.

When Timo Kotipelto, Jens Johansson and Jörg Michael joined the band, I knew I had found the line up, that would take us as far as you can go with this kind of music. The only thing I was concerned was, that I was the only guy in the band that had a spiritual approach to life and that I had been writing songs about Love, Peace, Universal Brotherhood since I was a teenager . But I did not give it so much thought, since I thought that I would be able to express that message anyway, because it is a strong one. It culminates in the symbol of Fleur De Lys, which means and represents to me the spirituality and all those core human values I have always been writing about. At that time I did not understand, that like many of those who had been walking this path, that I would face a lot of violent hatred and laughter. Now I know better, but today that only makes my message stronger. You have to learn to look at the evil eye to eye and laugh at it. I found that symbol 1992 and put it on the cover of my first solo album and later on the Stratovarius logo 5 years later. And now it follows me to my new band Revolution Renaissance.

When the guys joined the band, I made it very clear what I wanna do and made contracts with each one of them. In that contract I also determined the rules that I would decide all the artistic factors of the band, that I own the name Stratovarius, and that we split all the income evenly with all the members... discounting the fact that I had been working years without any money with the previous line up, and created the necessary contacts that now became very important to gain success. Of course, everything from Episode onwards is written forever in Power Metal history and I dont have to repeat our achievements here.

It was around the time when we left Nuclear Blast and signed a big money contract with Sanctuary that things started to go wrong. I think this move ultimately destroyed the band, added a corporate aspect to the music and resulted in the worst Stratovarius album ever: the black Stratovarius united album. And I am as guilty as the others of all this. As the big money entered the picture, so also entered highly questionable methods to market the band using whatever means possible. Due to legal reasons it is not possible to go into details, but I just say this: whatever marketing trick was used at that time, everybody was part of it: the whole band, the management and the record company. And I repeat: the whole band including Timo Kotipelto and Jörg Michael. And I can prove this and they know it. And one day I might just do that. Maybe soon. Maybe in a book. It was all this what ultimately lead to my total nervous breakdown in Spring 2004. The recovery has lasted to this very day, but I can say that today I am almost fully recovered and have not drunk a drop of alcohol in 3 years and have been on medication for 4 years to combat one of the most painful and vicious mental illnesses: bipolar disorder. The medication works wonderfully and I am able to work and be creative. And most of all I feel free. I am fortunate to have that medication that many sufferers before me, for example Ludwig Van Beethoven or Ernest Hemingway (who blew his brains out with a gun), did not have. They had the same illness, as do many people who work in entertainment.

The damage done to the band was irreversible. Somebody has said that sooner or later you start to hate your leader. Much has also been said about the band members saving me, when I was in a hospital or when I was thinking about commiting suicide. On the contrary, I didnt receive any acts of kindness from my friends. Not one of them visited me in the hospital although all the guys were in town. The only person that seemed to care later was Jens with his phone calls, and you the fans, from whom I received thousands of letters that gave me real hope and comfort. The people who actually saved me were my wife and daughter, my mother and my therapist. I had the worst depressive episode of my life that last 7 months. I could not even get out from the bed. During this time, my friends were not even in touch with me. Instead what happened was that they were slowly working behind my back to take over much of the bands control, especially financial, with the help from the management. And they succeeded fairly well. It was very clever. When I recovered enough, I found out that lots of things had been changed and that I did not have that control over the band I had before and what I needed to be able to express my music, my art. All this was done behind my back during this time. I faced increasing demands to do things I didnt want to do, and demands from Timo Kotipelto to get his songs into Stratovarius records. The only problem was: we are so very different and our music and message is so very different. He would never write lyrics like Celestial Dream. His music and lyrics doesnt have that spiritual dimension that mine has. Not that they have to, of course.

I was lied to directly about the promotional activities of the Stratovarius album and Jens and Kotipelto did the full promo tour while I was tricked and told that I would do the most important interviews later. Due to this, I didnt talk to the press for that album at all, although I very much felt I needed to and the last time I had done interviews, was 2003, but not because I didnt want to. It was organized that I could not. These things were arranged behind my back by the band and the management. They wanted me silent and make me look like I was not there so much anymore.

During the rehearsals and the world tour of Stratovarius record, I felt lot of aggression towards me. I felt like I was not wanted in my own band. I designed the whole show myself, including the projection screens and the peace message with the Declaration of Universal Human Rights in the song United. The whole spirit of the show was so contradictory to the feeling that was in the band. As the tour progressed I really started to have the feeling that I am not wanted in the band anymore. I was told by Jörg Michael face to face that this band is over. I was really confused what to do after the tour so I did what I always do: I put my feelings to music and started writing songs. The songs were completed quickly in August 2006 and the demos delivered to the management in October. They in turn sent them to Sanctuary for approval and that started the whole legal thing. We had festival appearaneces scheduled in 2007, but at that point I really felt that something weird was going on... a nd that everybody was in it only for the money. Like trying to get whatevery they could as fast as they could. Insane gig offers for one gig off in India etc followed, which I refused to play, much to groups anger.

The Sanctuary lawsuit was going on because they did not want to pay what was in the contract. I said, I dont care about that money, lets just leave and find a new label, we have to get the album out. I was pressured largely by staying away from that due to the financial arrangements that were done behind my back while I was sick. I asked for information about the lawsuit but I was given very vague answers. To be short: I didnt know what is going on. I said that we dont need that money and that we should just leave and find another label, but it was our management and especially Jens that heavily resisted this option. Sanctuary would have let us go for free from the contract. Gamma Ray left and signed with SPV and is doing great today. But we had to go into that legal battle because of 420 000 per record. Sanctuary found out that Jari signed the contract but is not in the band anymore. Bang! No money. The guys contacted Jari and asked him to sign a paper where he stated that he is still in the band although he was playing in Evergrey. It was just: money, money, money. And all this time, I was the only one who was actually making music. I used almost a year in my life for composing and recording my Classical Rock Opera Saana. And the evergrowing feeling inside of me that something is terribly wrong.

At the same time playing the festival gigs and feeling all this hatred, I started to think about my future. I knew at that point that I would be happier without these guys, except perhaps Jens and Lauri. As the months went by and I was doing my solo album Saana, I felt so much happiness doing that project that I fully realized what I should do. I was aware of the consequences, but I wasnt aware that I was against a big money making machine. I have explained much of this period in my first statement.

So there was one thing left. I had to decide if I would continue Strato without Kotipelto and Jörg, from whom I felt most of the hatred coming. I came to the conclusion that there cannot be Stratovarius without these guys and that it would be wrong to the fans to replace them. So I decided to end something that I started 23 years before and yes, I do consider that, although there are always those who remind me that I am not an original member. But I do consider myself as an original member of Stratovarius as the fans know it. The band started in 1982 and I came in 1984. I do consider myself as the soul of Stratovarius and that it has always been my band. But I also consider that I could not have achieved all that success without the classic line up. It was a match made in heaven. Why it ended the way it ended, is partly a mystery to me. But my motivation was not greed as the others claim. If it would be, I would certainly have waited to have that 420 000 plus the high fee Stratovarius receives from the shows. Instead I decided to go on my own way and stop Stratovarius while it still had some dignity left. I was fully aware that I would have to pay for my share for the legal costs, but I didnt care... although I waited as long as I could to give time to those who wanted that money more than to create music. And I do blame the management and the lawyer for handling the case badly and slowly.

You have to do your own thinking: why would I leave a succesful band who was winning the legal case with all that money and go and start all over again with a totally new band and relatively unknown musicians with very little money compared to the Strato if I wasnt completely totally unhappy about almost everything in the band the worst being the very fake human relationships and how I had been treated in the last couple of years? Does this make any sense to you? And if it does, then perhaps it has come time to ask: who are the ones that actually are greedy? And who wants to exploit the name Stratovarius and who doesnt? For those who dont know, the deals me and Strato always make/made are so called master deals. It means that the artist pays for the studio, flights, the general costs of making the album. After paying all the costs of the RR New Era album that includes mega names and studio rent is 460 per day plus also the costs for making cover, pictures, what is left is nothing compared to what I was making in Strato. The supreme greedy narcistic Faust doesnt really fit into this scenario. But a guy who loves music and has made it from his heart since the age of 14 and follows his ideals no matter what, does. That guy is me.

So now we come to that point where I had the new album of my new band ready and still no solution from a simple legal case. It was 2 months until the release and the case had been going on for almost 2 years now. So that was the day when I had to make it public. It still took about a month until the Sanctuary/Universal people heard about the break-up. Then it was of course too late.

I wrote my statement with a clear conscience and without hatred, telling about the reasons of the split that had already happened half a year before. Rationally, peacefully and with respect. I wanted the fans to know the truth. Since then I have spent much of my time in the Strato forum and RR forum explaining the situation and trying to be with the fans. My sincere wish was that the split would not divide the fans and I spent a lot of time even defending the guys and writing blogs urging fans not to take sides. I believe the fans deserved to know more than the general chit chat. Some people say we should not talk about private things in public. But it is absolutely impossible to understand the whole thing without going into those details. At the end of the day it is just down to rational thinking: why didnt I stay? Why did I leave?

Then the other guys published that hate filled, bitter and cruel statement accusing me of just about everything that has ever happened. The biggest thing that hurt was that it was signed by Jens and Lauri, who I thought were my friends. That cut very deep and I am still recovering from that disappointment. That really broke my heart. And I still cant believe it. But it is true.

After that statement it was of course inevitable that the fans will be divided, thus the situation was against everything that Stratovarius had ever represented and I had written songs about. They were not divided after my first statement. I certainly didnt intend to start a flaming war but I was shocked about the lies and aggressiveness. And I did write some stupid things in the forums, which I apologize about to you the fans. But I am only a human being with weaknesses and sometimes too much is just too much. The pressure was just unbelievable. I was stabbed in the back by the guys I had given all my creative energy and efforts, not to mention the money, for 12 years and I was called greedy supreme narcistic Faust. The whole statement made little sense to me,stating that band had declined since 2004 and that I was somehow humiliated by this. I think the humiliation lies on the other side and in the abandonment by my friends. Also, I dont think the band had declined. We played extremely succesful world tour of 100 shows around the Globe for Stratovarius album. Thats hardly a decline. The fans were there. They were hungry for a new Strato album. Sadly they had no idea what was going on. I really dont understand the whole statement in any other way than cleverly putting all the blame on me and trying to destroy my new career, while continuing under the name Stratovarius. It is a very different statement from what I did and wrote in a very different way and tone. There is unbelievable repressed hate in that statement towards me. Thus, much of what I had felt towards me in the last couple of years is manifested in that letter. Later I heard from 3 credible sources close to Jens that he actually toned the statement down and that it was even more aggressive. The source of that aggressiveness would be Jörg Michael and Timo Kotipelto, exactly as I have felt. Jörg Michael is also the only guy who has put up the statement on his myspace site.

Now we come to the final point since the others want to continue as Stratovarius. My thought of not wanting to continue Stratovarius without Timo Kotipelto and Jörg Michael was totally contradictory to their thought of continuing the band without me. And since I had written 95% about the songs and lyrics and was responsible for the whole essence and message of the band, it would be impossible to call that band Stratovarius. It would have nothing to do with that name. This would be no Deep Purple without Blackmore where the songs were written mainly together... plus they had no serious message like Stratovarius does.

So there will never be another Stratovarius. It was a unique band and the name itself doesnt mean that it would bear the trademarks of Stratovarius. It means more to me than money. It means the very essence of the message it has carried in my songs for 23 years. That is a very long time. My new band cannot replace Stratovarius. Neither can any other band. My dignity prevents me from using that name without my ex-band members. This is the contrary regarding the other guys and what they are inteding to do. At this writing, they are most likely preparing all kinds of Stratovarius releases that I blocked, out of the reasons that they did not have enough quality.

Since I consider this a devastatingly disappointing and utterly disrespectful move, I am going to do something people dont probably expect from me. First of all in my life philosophy this kind of act is evil. And I do not want to have anything to do with evil. Although both moral and legal rights I own would easily grant me the rights to prevent the guys using the name Stratovarius, I am going to do the opposite. I am going to give them full perpetual rights to the name and also I do not want to receive any money regarding record sales of the back catalogue or possible new products in which I am involved . Ever. You will find this letter » that has been mailed to the Stratovarius management with this statement. Simply, I dont want to have anything to do with that name in its present form, Jörg Michael, Timo Kotipelto and Jens Johansson ever again. The old records and their message speak for themselves. So the guys are free to use the name. I am doing this with a clear mind that everything that you put to the universe returns to you. And above all, I refuse to co-operate, negotiate or have anything to do with what I consider to be evil. And here is the very corporate money making machine in its full force exploiting the name, like it could really have the same meaning without me.

I hope this letter clarifies some things from my side and I promise that this will be the last statement from my side. From now on I will let the music talk with my new band Revolution Renaissance, that carries that spiritual essence of the Fleur de Lys. Thats why its in the logo. And of course we will play lots of Stratovarius songs in the shows too.

I wish you nothing but good things, blessings and much happiness. I thank you for a great life and I hope to see you somewhere along the road. Take good care of yourselves and I am very sorry that it had to end this way. When the curtain falls at the end of the day, its only the Music that counts. And you will get that from me in the future too.



Love, Timo Tolkki
REVOLUTION HAS BEGUN

Can be found at: https://web.archive.org/web/20090411025 ... -05-20.php

Waiver of rights signed 20/05/2008 by Tolkki himself and posted under the statement:

Waver Timo Tolkki rights to Stratovarius.jpg

Can be found at: https://web.archive.org/web/20090303224 ... RIGHTS.jpg

Statement Nr. 6 from the band to Timo Tolkki: 29 May 2008

A thank you
Open letter to Timo Tolkki from three remaining Stratovarius members.
Dear Timo, we thank you for the waiver of your rights dated May 20, 2008 in the name Stratovarius, and the gift of your share of the income from the back catalog.

Technically and morally none of us was in the position to alone give or withhold the name Stratovarius. So, this certainly clarifies the situation, and we three thank you for that.

Good luck with your projects in the future!

Jörg Michael, Jens Johansson and Timo Kotipelto

Can be found at: https://web.archive.org/web/20081219223 ... -05-29.php
Last edited by Pancio on Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:32 am

I'm sure the existing members of the band love having all this bullshit dredged up. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Someone could make a really good movie about all of this!

I sometimes wonder what peculiar strain of autism I have that makes me so fascinated with all this... :oops:

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:11 am

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Rebel » Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:44 pm

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:32 am
I'm sure the existing members of the band love having all this bullshit dredged up. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Someone could make a really good movie about all of this!

I sometimes wonder what peculiar strain of autism I have that makes me so fascinated with all this... :oops:
I have definitely tossed around doing a Youtube series on it
They let us have signatures on this forum???

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:48 pm

The great schism of 2008 and what followed was one of the best soap opera dramas I've witnessed in my life. The constant back-and-forth, the trolling, and the abrupt turn of events were all magnificent. The release of Polaris was the cherry on top, proving that the band can still produce without its main composer.

Then Doro came along. I wish I could live that again. It was comparable to watching the world cup final, the super bowl, or the presidential elections.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by ZenithMC » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:38 am

Even though I wasn't a user here, or even aware of Stratovarius, 12 years ago, I was aware of these events retrospectively. I never read the full thing before, though.
NeverendingAbyss wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:48 pm
Then Doro came along. I wish I could live that again. It was comparable to watching the world cup final, the super bowl, or the presidential elections.
The Doro situation was so whacked out. I discovered those threads just few months ago and it left my mouth agape. :shock: I couldn't believe my eyes... and then it quickly overstayed its welcome and became annoying as hell. :lol: I swear, Stratovarius is haunted by the ghost of drama past. :rotflmao1: (and Tolkki is haunted by the ghosts of drama past, present, and future)

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Pancio » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:09 pm

I remember very well that period and how silly and stupid it was and, even tho at the time I was angry with Tolkki and the guys for every trick and fakery, putting all the shit together is pretty interesting.

All the fake accounts by Tolkki, Jens banning his IPs, Doro and the RR forum thing, the "war" between Tolkki and the guys with the private emails posted on the forum and so on: I was there, even if not yet registered and I enjoyed the show.
That was really one of the best/worst dramas ever seen and I think it's a kind of magic how they managed to move their ass out of it.
And yes, a documentary or a TV drama would be something amazing.

Really, it was funny and bad at the same time.

But surely the band showed, with Polaris, that they can continue and that the band wasn't Tolkki at all.
Tolkki, on the other hand, showed us that his songwriting was actually dead and never to be found again; I'm not happy about it, he was the main reason behind my involvements in music as a player, producer and so on, but I have to admit I'm kinda satisfied: he wasn't the genius, he wasn't Jesus Christ himself, nor he was the good guy he always pretended to be, he was a good guitar player and a good composer with a great band behind him.

Briefly, for new fans and people:

- By the autumn of 2003 Stratovarius signed a deal with Sanctuary Records.

- Some rumors about tensions between the band members, Timo K. and Timo T., started.

- In the same period Tolkki decided to "promote the band" with publicity stunts, the plan was actually scripted by Tolkki in order to gain mass media attention:

- He stated that the deal with Sanctuary was worth 3.5 million dollars and was signed by the band with elk blood.

- He faked an aggression during Piorno Rock, releasing an interview with Jens through Sonera Plaza.

- He "fired" Timo K. and Jörg, citing some tensions brought to him during the years from both his band members as a main reason, telling
Kotipelto was vicious and evil.

- He "hired" Katriina "Miss K" Wiiala as a new singer along with Anders Johansson from HammerFall.

- Then he started this kind of shitposting, on this site and through medias and the internet, talking about Jesus, Kabballah, Hitler and himself.

- Some photos with him covered in blood was putted online.

- He was the diagnosed with bipolar disorder and he was hospitalized in April 2004.

- Then he "fired" Miss K and Anders to bring back Timo K. and Jörg for the summer festival season.

- Tolkki spent a lot of money to built Goldenworks, his own studio, then failed.

- After the tour the band started recording "Stratovarius" (aka "Black Album") released through Sanctuary in 2005.

- They supported the new album with an European tour, which was one of the biggest tour for them, but they basically sucked since no rehearsals were made and Tolkki was heavy sedated. Jörg was in Saxon as well during 2004 and 2005.

- After the European tour Tolkki fired Kainulainen and hired Lauri Porra while Timo K. and Jens were promoting the new album.

- The Japan, North American and South American tour started in 2006 and lasted until October 2006.

- In 2007 things was shit, some shows were played then Tolkki decided to compose new material. A demo tape was made and then...


- On April 2008 Tolkki posted a statement (the first one above) telling to the fans that Stratovarius was no more since him, as a mastermind, decided to put the band to rest.

- The band reacted and a lot of shit, on this forum, started as well between fans: someone took Tolkki's side, someone band's side.

- After a month of speculations, of trivial and bitter answers and questions the band decided to continue anyway while Tolkki signed a waiver of rights.

- Something arose: Tolkki had secretly signed a deal with Frontiers: he would have dismantled Stratovarius in order to have his new Revolution Renaissance records "New Era" out without competitors.
He also left a big debt to the band (300.000 dollars or so).

On the forum, for a couple of years, both Tolkki and Jens "fought" 'cause Tolkki was bashing the band through his own RR's forum and on this forum as well with different accounts until Jens banned him.
During that time Tolkki stated that what happened was never his own fault but the band agreed with him most of the times, that Kotipelto was a fake polite and good guy and the main problem of the band.
Then he started stalking fans on social media trying to convince them that Stratovarius guys were evil.

During that time there was this girl, called Doro, who basically got pregnant by Tolkki while he was married to Dominika Gottova. Doro started a fight with Tolkki on the forum and on Facebook as well (I believe she is still in my friendlist) because Tolkki didn't want to recognise his illegitimate son.
I don't know how the things are, nowadays: I only know that Doro, some months ago, was replying under Tolkki's posts on Facebook.

Results? The band hired Matias and released Polaris, Elysium, a live DVD/BD for Jörg farewell tour and Nemesis and Eternal with Rolf.
Tolkki, instead, started countless failed projects: Revolution Renaissance, Symfonia, Credo and Avalon plus one Allen/Lande record and Chaos Magic first album.

Now that he is almost homeless he want the ship back for easy-cash StratoUnited tour but I doubt the guys want an old wanker on the same stage with them, although they seems in good terms with him.

If you want more infos about Tolkki nowadays you can get a free circus entrance by looking at his Facebook, starting from 2019 until now.


Sorry for every mistake, I'm a little bit tired and out of focus, today.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:15 am

That was pretty spot on. Don't forget the drama with Revolution Renaissance and how Tolkki didn't "play" guitars in Trinity.

Ah, I just remembered. Did he ever give away his guitar? I feel like he didn't.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:18 am

Not to mention Saana Foundation, return to Dreamspace, project strato, his pledge music thing....

But who cares at the end of the day? I'm certainly not mad about it. :lol:

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by mocobhc » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:30 am

Pancio wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:09 pm
Results? The band hired Matias and released Polaris, Elysium, a live DVD/BD for Jörg farewell tour and Nemesis and Eternal with Rolf.
Proof that something good may grow even from the deepest shit :toilet:

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Rebel » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:26 pm

I'm still pretty pissed Tolkki stalked this forum close enough to cancel an interview with the site I used to write for just to avoid me. He made his record company lie about opening a lawsuit
They let us have signatures on this forum???

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Motha-faka » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:58 pm

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I was very kid in 2008 and i DONT put my nose in this forum in these time.... I was 28 TEE HEE!!!
I'm a huge Fuck :x

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:32 am

I was there, not posting or even registered. Shy guy. :oops:
As far as I was concerned then, Strato was the best band ever to me and watching it all from the sidelines was just incredible. :lol:
It seems like Pancio likes to stir the pot o’ shit a lot. :lol: Just don’t post my nudes I sent you, dude!!!

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Jabi » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:49 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:15 am
Ah, I just remembered. Did he ever give away his guitar? I feel like he didn't.
It looks like Luthor was out of luck on this one.
Lehtiniemi says that Tolkki promised him payment.

”Because I believed money to be tight, it was arranged that I receive my payment in the form of two guitars. In the end he gave me a used instrument, which he later tried to buy off me, because he had given it away on his website to a fan in Spain. Seven days were booked for the mixing of Trinity. At the beginning of the mixing process the album was missing clean guitars, guitar melodies and synths. The album's ballad was also absent of bass and drums. All of the drumtracks also had to be gone through again.”
Source: http://tolkkicantplay.blogspot.com/2010 ... redit.html
OMG, they fired Jari! Bastards!

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:39 am

Jabi wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:49 pm
tolkkicantplay.blogspot.com
LOL! That fucking url is hilarious. :lol:
In all seriousness, that album is total dogshit anyway, isn't it? Did it age well? I don't care enough to listen. The whole thing with recording quantity over quality can bite you in the ass. Just recording for the sake of it just to have it out there. Or just take your time and make a product that is top notch. If it's even possible. I have raydd so anything I do is now, now, now. :err: Even somebody else playing all the solos can't save a shitshow. :lol:
Rebel wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:26 pm
I'm still pretty pissed Tolkki stalked this forum close enough to cancel an interview with the site I used to write for just to avoid me. He made his record company lie about opening a lawsuit
How many times did shit like this happen and we never knew about it? :lol: He seems to be leaching off of whoever will take him in somewhere in Mexico now. Maybe Pancio knows more, he deleted me. :D

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Pancio » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:29 pm

robocop wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:32 am
I was there, not posting or even registered. Shy guy. :oops:
As far as I was concerned then, Strato was the best band ever to me and watching it all from the sidelines was just incredible. :lol:
It seems like Pancio likes to stir the pot o’ shit a lot. :lol: Just don’t post my nudes I sent you, dude!!!
I will keep them for myself and solely for myself, of course, they're in good hands :wink:

But surely I like to dig shit out of every situation, this still is an hot topic for me and I like to share it with people who don't know the past since there's a lot of misinformation about the band.
On top of that Tolkki isn't reliable at all and everything he says is basically a bullshit. He always acted like he is smart 'n' clever but it's the exact opposite; I don't think he is dumb but he aged badly and things are getting worst day by day.
Rebel wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:26 pm
I'm still pretty pissed Tolkki stalked this forum close enough to cancel an interview with the site I used to write for just to avoid me. He made his record company lie about opening a lawsuit
He used "lawyer" lies pretty frequently, back in the days: in 2003, prior to the release of both Elements albums he menaced fans of lawsuit against illegal download (sounds like Napster and Metallica), he talked about lawsuit again during the stunts and after the 2007/2008 facts plus he talked about opening a lawsuit against the band, in 2012, to have the rights back and throughout 2019 until now he mentioned tons of "lawsuits" against Frontiers, against a band who plagiarized some melodies, against Czech tabloids and against Ivana Gottova but everything was fake as fuck, he's homeless and poor and now he's living in Mexico for free, still he prides himself on having managers and lawyers.
It seems he's unable to tell the truth.
Jabi wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:49 pm
NeverendingAbyss wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:15 am
Ah, I just remembered. Did he ever give away his guitar? I feel like he didn't.
It looks like Luthor was out of luck on this one.
Lehtiniemi says that Tolkki promised him payment.

”Because I believed money to be tight, it was arranged that I receive my payment in the form of two guitars. In the end he gave me a used instrument, which he later tried to buy off me, because he had given it away on his website to a fan in Spain. Seven days were booked for the mixing of Trinity. At the beginning of the mixing process the album was missing clean guitars, guitar melodies and synths. The album's ballad was also absent of bass and drums. All of the drumtracks also had to be gone through again.”
Source: http://tolkkicantplay.blogspot.com/2010 ... redit.html
I remember the "tolkkicantplay" and I'm pretty sure Lehtiniemi was associated with Tolkki from the beginning, they have played together in 2017 during the mini-tour here in Europe and he was also credited in Avalon III.
And yes, it was weird, at the time, because I remember I wasn't impressed by the solos and thought they were clearly not played by Tolkki after the first listen. But I don't care that much, Age of Aquarius and Trinity aren't my cup of tea: rough songs and bad singer (Monsanto was a pain in the ass, especially live).

And yes, if I remember well, the guitar arrived to the fan, actually.
robocop wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:39 am
Jabi wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:49 pm
tolkkicantplay.blogspot.com
LOL! That fucking url is hilarious. :lol:
In all seriousness, that album is total dogshit anyway, isn't it? Did it age well? I don't care enough to listen. The whole thing with recording quantity over quality can bite you in the ass. Just recording for the sake of it just to have it out there. Or just take your time and make a product that is top notch. If it's even possible. I have raydd so anything I do is now, now, now. :err: Even somebody else playing all the solos can't save a shitshow. :lol:
Rebel wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:26 pm
I'm still pretty pissed Tolkki stalked this forum close enough to cancel an interview with the site I used to write for just to avoid me. He made his record company lie about opening a lawsuit
How many times did shit like this happen and we never knew about it? :lol: He seems to be leaching off of whoever will take him in somewhere in Mexico now. Maybe Pancio knows more, he deleted me. :D
As said, AoA and Trinity aren't my cup of tea but no, they sucks even for someone with low standard, I played them a couple of month ago and I skipped both album in half an hour (a couple of songs, with better overall production, a better singer and less hurry could have been good, tho).

I've posted something under one of his ravings, yesterday, because he asked to a Finnish guy the Fourth Dimension demos with himself on vocal duties (you can find in Oslam Phoenix channel on YouTube) in order to upload them on his upcoming website.
Some of the fans were concerned about possible issues with rights and he said that he owns part of the copyright from Stratovarius back catalogue, which is not true, and I corrected him.
I'm waiting for the ban (this would be my fourth profile).

About him: I know he is engaged with this Mexican fat girl called Ingrid Bell, that he is friend with Eduardo de la Cerda, who's the singer from a shitty band and his "promoter", and he rely on fans for room and board.
He posts everyday conspiracy theories about the virus, food photos and other ridiculous stuff; pretty boring.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:00 pm

He's engaged already??? :shock:

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by ZenithMC » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:06 am

Pancio wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:29 pm
I've posted something under one of his ravings, yesterday, because he asked to a Finnish guy the Fourth Dimension demos with himself on vocal duties (you can find in Oslam Phoenix channel on YouTube) in order to upload them on his upcoming website.
Thanks so much for the heads up on this! I knew about these for a long time but never dreamed I would hear them! :D

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Pancio » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:49 am

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:00 pm
He's engaged already??? :shock:
Yes, at least based on his proclamations on his personal Facebook account: the girl's name is Ingrid Bell.
But it must be fake: he want the Czech tabloids to talk about him and give him money for interviews (in Czech Republic he is famous because of his "divorce" from Dominika, the daughter of Karel Gott. And a lot of magazines offered him hotels and food in exchange of photos and interviews).
When your music is dead let the medias talk about scandals: maniac depression, divorce, suicide, conspiracy and so on.
Not so clever since basically no one trust him, nowadays: ask to Nuclear Blast about Infinite Visions project, I bet they will laugh out loud.

To be clear, I don't give a fuck about his bullshit but I think it's good to know that we cannot trust him at all: don't pledge for him, don't send him demos or songs asking for mixing, mastering or production, don't ask for guitar lessons and other stuff with money involved.
There are musicians who asked him for mixing tasks in November 2019: he received money and then disappeared.
His lessons consist of random talks, no theory and little to no playing (and keep in mind he isn't a teacher nor a good guitar player).
And his projects, well, let me start:

- He stated that Frontiers Records is like mafia.
- He stated that, after Avalon III, he would have toured for the projects with special guests.
- He stated that Kotipelto, Johansson, Kainulainen ams Pilve would have been in his new project.
- He signed with a small German label.
- The next day the statement was corrected: no Pilve, Kotipelto, Johansson and Kainulainen.
- He stated that the project: "Will be out in March 2020" since all the material was already composed.
- Postponed in June.
- Postponed in August.
- The involved musicians changed from "Stratovarius" to "someone plus Mike Vescera".
- He stated that his project will be published under Nuclear Blast.
- Then he stated that the project is on sale but Nuclear Blast will surely be the final publisher.
- After all the bullshit the project was postponed in 2021 because Frontiers forced him on Avalon IV, to be released during fall 2020.
- He stated that he was composing stuff for Infinite Vision even tho he previously stated that the material was already there.
- He stated that the demos were finished in Prague.
- He flew to Mexico and, surprise, the band changed once again: no more Vescera and no more guests but a bunch of unknown musicians from South America (I bet they will work for free).
- Tolkki said that he must re-record demos.
- He stated that he will be in Japan for some Infinite anniversary shows with Vescera.

Do you wanna read more?

That's why we need to talk about him, he is a cheap swindler.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Pancio » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:57 am

ZenithMC wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:06 am
Pancio wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:29 pm
I've posted something under one of his ravings, yesterday, because he asked to a Finnish guy the Fourth Dimension demos with himself on vocal duties (you can find in Oslam Phoenix channel on YouTube) in order to upload them on his upcoming website.
Thanks so much for the heads up on this! I knew about these for a long time but never dreamed I would hear them! :D
You're welcome :wink:

And yes, nice material.
Now let's hope for the 2003 Elements Live DVD in Milano, the only two songs from that show on YouTube are excellent!

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:30 am

Ohhh, goddamn!!! :lol:
These random unknown guys never learn when asked to play with him. They need to be made aware. :lol: I seen this guy Jimmy Pitts an American keyboard player I have heard of before is supposed to be playing with infinite visions. I hope he finds out or somebody tells him the situation soon enough. ???

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:30 am

Pancio wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:49 am
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:00 pm
He's engaged already??? :shock:
- He stated that Frontiers Records is like mafia.
- He stated that, after Avalon III, he would have toured for the projects with special guests.
- He stated that Kotipelto, Johansson, Kainulainen ams Pilve would have been in his new project.
- He signed with a small German label.
- The next day the statement was corrected: no Pilve, Kotipelto, Johansson and Kainulainen.
- He stated that the project: "Will be out in March 2020" since all the material was already composed.
- Postponed in June.
- Postponed in August.
- The involved musicians changed from "Stratovarius" to "someone plus Mike Vescera".
- He stated that his project will be published under Nuclear Blast.
- Then he stated that the project is on sale but Nuclear Blast will surely be the final publisher.
- After all the bullshit the project was postponed in 2021 because Frontiers forced him on Avalon IV, to be released during fall 2020.
- He stated that he was composing stuff for Infinite Vision even tho he previously stated that the material was already there.
- He stated that the demos were finished in Prague.
- He flew to Mexico and, surprise, the band changed once again: no more Vescera and no more guests but a bunch of unknown musicians from South America (I bet they will work for free).
- Tolkki said that he must re-record demos.
- He stated that he will be in Japan for some Infinite anniversary shows with Vescera.

Do you wanna read more?

That's why we need to talk about him, he is a cheap swindler.
That is an excellent summary! I also note all these things as I read them over the months, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other. It's actually really impressive that you managed to catalog everything like this.

If you turn back the dial 5 or 10 years or so, you could probably come up with a list of bullshit 1000 lines long.

It is unfortunate that at this age and at this stage in his career, he's couchsurfing in Mexico. I do wish him the best and hope he gets it together.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:06 am

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:30 am
I do wish him the best and hope he gets it together.
As long as the media and fans love the drama and story, he will continue till his diabetes, McDonald’s and whatever else takes him down. I am down the same path. (Without the media.) :lol:

Did he ever “get it together?”
Anything he gets involved in is a shitshow for how long now? :lol:

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:49 pm

I was a young teenager when I first listened to Tolkki's music. I can state that his push for common sense and peace through his lyrics helped me define my thoughts growing up. I once asked him what's his favorite book, and he recommended me to read The Road Less Traveled. At that time, it was my age of discovery. Each new thought and idea grew like wildfire. After I read that book, I wanted to know more, hence I searched for similar books and later educational texts. I can thank Tolkki for that.

I really hope he gets better. At this point I don't think he will recover as the musician he once was. :(
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Jabi » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:35 pm

Pancio wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:29 pm

And yes, if I remember well, the guitar arrived to the fan, actually.
Ah ok, cool. I like happy endings. :lol:
OMG, they fired Jari! Bastards!

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Motha-faka » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:49 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:49 pm
I was a young teenager
Image
I'm a huge Fuck :x

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:35 am

NeverendingAbyss wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:49 pm
I was a young teenager when I first listened to Tolkki's music. I can state that his push for common sense and peace through his lyrics helped me define my thoughts growing up. I once asked him what's his favorite book, and he recommended me to read The Road Less Traveled. At that time, it was my age of discovery. Each new thought and idea grew like wildfire. After I read that book, I wanted to know more, hence I searched for similar books and later educational texts. I can thank Tolkki for that.

I really hope he gets better. At this point I don't think he will recover as the musician he once was. :(
Awww. Ain’t dis nigga precious?

Image
:luv1:

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:34 pm

I always thought that spiritual stuff was really corny to be honest :lol:

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by ZenithMC » Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:48 pm

Timo Tolkki is on a quest to defeat the Four Fiends and restore power to the orbs.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:01 pm

:lol: To be honest at that time I was starting to diverge from the bullshit my parents said about religion. Now I don't attend church, but I still think Jesus was cool. Momo and David were cool dudes, too. I don't believe in the afterlife, or reincarnation, or whatever spiritual stuff people tend to believe. We're just here for the ride and anything that happens after death will be no different than what happened before we were born.

Anyway, we digress. I couldn't get used to Gus's voice in RR. Tolkki didn't take the necessary time to form a great band with a great lineup. I think he will be more successful if he does what Jani does now: temporary projects and collaboration with different bands.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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