2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Here you can talk about Stratovarius and related bands. Language used is English.
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robocop
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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:43 pm

Shit, I accidentally posted twice. :bounce1:
Last edited by robocop on Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:44 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:01 pm
:lol: To be honest at that time I was starting to diverge from the bullshit my parents said about religion. Now I don't attend church, but I still think Jesus was cool. Momo and David were cool dudes, too. I don't believe in the afterlife, or reincarnation, or whatever spiritual stuff people tend to believe. We're just here for the ride and anything that happens after death will be no different than what happened before we were born.

Anyway, we digress. I couldn't get used to Gus's voice in RR. Tolkki didn't take the necessary time to form a great band with a great lineup. I think he will be more successful if he does what Jani does now: temporary projects and collaboration with different bands.
I only watch televangelists like Joel Olsteen. My mom does. :lol:
Hail Murrica.


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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Motha-faka » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:32 am

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by adrian9 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:08 pm

Well Corona virus its destroying our sanity right? why else open this old wounds?

for what its worth, I think that TT giving all stratovarius rights to TK, JJ, and JM was just a way to "prove them wrong" about their "greed" statement.

looking back that was a bad move because he basically gave away his retirement pension (I'm not sure if giving his rights means he doesn't get royalties, but knowing the strato guys, I'm pretty sure they being fair to TT, still, he could have sold those rights to a publisher a management a record label...)

anyway, can't change past decisions to course correct the present contrary to time travel movies advice.
A9

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:35 pm

adrian9 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:08 pm
Well Corona virus its destroying our sanity right? why else open this old wounds?

for what its worth, I think that TT giving all stratovarius rights to TK, JJ, and JM was just a way to "prove them wrong" about their "greed" statement.

looking back that was a bad move because he basically gave away his retirement pension (I'm not sure if giving his rights means he doesn't get royalties, but knowing the strato guys, I'm pretty sure they being fair to TT, still, he could have sold those rights to a publisher a management a record label...)

anyway, can't change past decisions to course correct the present contrary to time travel movies advice.
I think he gave rights to the name, but never gave away royalty rights.

I think those royalty rights are probably very little money- maybe enough for a simple lifestyle in Monterrey but probably not for helsinki.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by SentineLEX » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:58 am

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:32 am
I'm sure the existing members of the band love having all this bullshit dredged up. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Someone could make a really good movie about all of this!

I sometimes wonder what peculiar strain of autism I have that makes me so fascinated with all this... :oops:
You and me both brother. I got into Strato in 2011 so I missed all the drama as it happened and I wasn't around for the RR-related forum wars. I remember dredging up article after article from Blabbermouth with Stratodrama from 2003-2004. One of the earlier ones was an article about how the two Timos broke out into a fistfight in the studio. I still remember the first comment being something like "Tolkki has 30 cm and 50 kg on Kotipelto, he probably just sat on him and ended the fight there".

My favorite article was this interview which I can only now find reprinted in forums: https://www.onlinekosten.de/forum/showt ... post414681

It's very morbid to say but a part of me always wonders how different the history and legacy of this band would have been if Tolkki had gone and killed himself in 2004. Listen to Liberty and imagine that being the last thing (bonus tracks excluded) Tolkki ever wrote...

A couple of questions I have about that period that are still unresolved, if anyone can answer them:
- Were there any actual "Popkiller" demos/self-covers with Miss K?
- https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/strat ... available/ This link promises piss pictures, did those ever exist and does anyone have them if they did?
- We know it was all made up now, but how seriously did people following the band take it at the time? I remember seeing one picture of TT after his alleged stab wound and to me it looked like he fell asleep on a jelly donut.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Pancio » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:20 pm

SentineLEX wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:58 am
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:32 am
I'm sure the existing members of the band love having all this bullshit dredged up. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Someone could make a really good movie about all of this!

I sometimes wonder what peculiar strain of autism I have that makes me so fascinated with all this... :oops:
You and me both brother. I got into Strato in 2011 so I missed all the drama as it happened and I wasn't around for the RR-related forum wars. I remember dredging up article after article from Blabbermouth with Stratodrama from 2003-2004. One of the earlier ones was an article about how the two Timos broke out into a fistfight in the studio. I still remember the first comment being something like "Tolkki has 30 cm and 50 kg on Kotipelto, he probably just sat on him and ended the fight there".

My favorite article was this interview which I can only now find reprinted in forums: https://www.onlinekosten.de/forum/showt ... post414681

It's very morbid to say but a part of me always wonders how different the history and legacy of this band would have been if Tolkki had gone and killed himself in 2004. Listen to Liberty and imagine that being the last thing (bonus tracks excluded) Tolkki ever wrote...

A couple of questions I have about that period that are still unresolved, if anyone can answer them:
- Were there any actual "Popkiller" demos/self-covers with Miss K?
- https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/strat ... available/ This link promises piss pictures, did those ever exist and does anyone have them if they did?
- We know it was all made up now, but how seriously did people following the band take it at the time? I remember seeing one picture of TT after his alleged stab wound and to me it looked like he fell asleep on a jelly donut.

I will try to answer:

1- No, Popkiller demos doesn't exists, it was a bullshit from the band to gain attention, but Katriina Wiiala never sung anything for them.
Even the "Miss K" website: http://www.aurorak.com/index2.htm√ seems fake as fuck. Anyway, there are a couple of songs and samples as well, so you can actually listen to her voice lol

2- I don't have the photos of the infamous pissing-moment but I know they exist for sure, there were also a video on YouTube, long time ago.

3- A lot of fans thought everything was completely genuine and took it very seriously, Stratovarius wasn't a tabloid band at all and almost everyone took the bait for this just after Tolkki was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, so I remember I was seriously afraid.
I sensed that everything was a bullshit after "Stratovarius", the associated Rockumentary and after Kabbalah, Hitler and Jesus Christ tho.
And yeah, Tolkki wound was created by a make-up artist and was clearly fake as fuck, but at the time I believed to the stab story (2004 is the same year of Dimebag Darrel's death also, kind of funny).

4- I don't know. If Tolkki had committed suicide I think Stratovarius would have separated, tbh.

The rest is history: I was 13, during 2004/2005, but I remember everything happened and I also was in Gods of Metal 2004 to see them playing for my first time ever (nice show and Kotipelto was on fire).
But the worst period was 2007/2008 when the band broke-up and I was like: "Shit man, wtf? I managed to see the band two times and they're already no more? C'mon!" then I took the band side after I learned all the background stuff like the agreements with Frontiers, the debt and Tolkki behavior towards fans who were not by his side.
Nowadays I don't give a flying fuck about Tolkki's bullshits, I know him pretty well and I learned how to distinguish lies from truth in a millisecond so I don't mind his acting over Facebook, at least he entertains more than his latest albums.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:30 pm

Pancio wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:20 pm
Nowadays I don't give a flying fuck about Tolkki's bullshits, I know him pretty well and I learned how to distinguish lies from truth in a millisecond so I don't mind his acting over Facebook, at least he entertains more than his latest albums.
Haha same here. Though its not that obvious what are lies and what are vague plans that won't come to fruition. Initially, Tolkki announced that Mike Vescera would be the singer of Infinite Visions. Later, he changed this plan- ostensibly because during demo recordings he realized Vescera's voice was not suitable. I kind of doubt this story: probably it was a financial issue (why pay when he can get a South American no-name singer to do the job for free). In most other cases, I think he is just a "dreamer" and not telling outright lies.

Regarding his general behavior over Facebook and with fans...I don't say this with any mean spirited intentions but I find he has a somewhat overinflated sense of his philosophical/spiritual foundation. :lol:

Ask him any vague question and rather than trying to answer it to the extent of his abilities, he will dismiss it under philosophical grounds. Example: "Why do you use X kind of guitar?" might be met with an answer like "I never ask 'Why' in my life." when he could simply say it was an arbitrary choice or he had it lying around. I think this behavior might be awe inspiring to his IQ-70 Facebook fans, and elevate him to a mystical figure, but for others it may be hard to understand.

If you look at his interview with Jorg Michael on his podcast, Jorg treated him almost like a younger brother, and Tolkki really dialed back that part of his personality around him.

Again, I don't say any of this with mean-spirited intentions. I am actually rooting for his health and welfare and wish him nothing but the best.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:42 pm

SentineLEX wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:58 am
- We know it was all made up now, but how seriously did people following the band take it at the time?
I was really bewildered by the entire thing. I was basically a child at the time, and this was the first band I was really following.

I think I did believe the stabbing, mainly because when people say they got stabbed you usually don't assume its a hoax. :lol: But people quickly pointed out that it was nonsense.

Back in those days, Tolkki was also very active in the forums, arguing and fighting about a variety of issues, many of which were unrelated to the band but were social / political in nature. I remember him making some really vile / lewd comments to browneyedgirl, and other people got threatened, banned, etc. At some point he threatened to rape somebody and got banned as well. At the time I didn't have the guts to register and post, but I was very actively lurking. It was definitely unsettling and bizarre. And based on everything I saw, it was incredibly clear that most of the destruction was caused by Tolkki and not the rest of the band- just by his general behavior and attitude. But its all water under the bridge now: we need to forgive, forget, learn and move on.

I wish I remembered more of how I felt about the entire thing at the time. Its been a long time and I'm a totally different person now!

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by ZenithMC » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:34 am

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:30 pm
Ask him any vague question and rather than trying to answer it to the extent of his abilities, he will dismiss it under philosophical grounds. Example: "Why do you use X kind of guitar?" might be met with an answer like "I never ask 'Why' in my life." when he could simply say it was an arbitrary choice or he had it lying around. I think this behavior might be awe inspiring to his IQ-70 Facebook fans, and elevate him to a mystical figure, but for others it may be hard to understand.
This made me laugh! It reminds me of another pseudo-quote of his from this forum (I think it's from here, but I can't find it anymore), "The internet can be a safe place, if we try." :lol:
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:42 pm
And based on everything I saw, it was incredibly clear that most of the destruction was caused by Tolkki and not the rest of the band- just by his general behavior and attitude.
I agree.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by SentineLEX » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:23 am

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:42 pm
SentineLEX wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:58 am
- We know it was all made up now, but how seriously did people following the band take it at the time?
I was really bewildered by the entire thing. I was basically a child at the time, and this was the first band I was really following.

I think I did believe the stabbing, mainly because when people say they got stabbed you usually don't assume its a hoax. :lol: But people quickly pointed out that it was nonsense.

Back in those days, Tolkki was also very active in the forums, arguing and fighting about a variety of issues, many of which were unrelated to the band but were social / political in nature. I remember him making some really vile / lewd comments to browneyedgirl, and other people got threatened, banned, etc. At some point he threatened to rape somebody and got banned as well. At the time I didn't have the guts to register and post, but I was very actively lurking. It was definitely unsettling and bizarre. And based on everything I saw, it was incredibly clear that most of the destruction was caused by Tolkki and not the rest of the band- just by his general behavior and attitude. But its all water under the bridge now: we need to forgive, forget, learn and move on.

I wish I remembered more of how I felt about the entire thing at the time. Its been a long time and I'm a totally different person now!
It puts that interview I linked into perspective. Like to me it seems laughable now but I think Tolkki's responses match up him going batshit in this forum pretty well. Although Jari rephrasing everything into a question about his motorbike makes everything silly again.

I remember he kept making alts and the last one I know for a fact was TT was called james.
ZenithMC wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:34 am

This made me laugh! It reminds me of another pseudo-quote of his from this forum (I think it's from here, but I can't find it anymore), "The internet can be a safe place, if we try." :lol:
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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Raven » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:03 pm

Pancio wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:20 pm
1- No, Popkiller demos doesn't exists, it was a bullshit from the band to gain attention, but Katriina Wiiala never sung anything for them.
Even the "Miss K" website: http://www.aurorak.com/index2.htm√ seems fake as fuck. Anyway, there are a couple of songs and samples as well, so you can actually listen to her voice lol
Aurora K is in fact Katriina's band although I don't know if it's active anymore. It's some sort cover rock or hard rock which has played in small clubs and bars in Finland. I think all of the musicians in the band are playing just for fun and it has nothing to do with Tolkki or Stratovarius. Another band where she plays nowadays which I think is still active "Suomi rock" -band Musta Joutsen (Black Swan).

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:11 pm

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:30 pm
Ask him any vague question and rather than trying to answer it to the extent of his abilities, he will dismiss it under philosophical grounds. Example: "Why do you use X kind of guitar?" might be met with an answer like "I never ask 'Why' in my life."
:lol: This was definitely a theme in the book he recommended. It's very easy for the reader to misinterpret. The whole point was to find a solution by asking "how" rather than "why", hence I never ask why in my life. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Of course by saying that he comes out as a huge asshole.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by Motha-faka » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:48 am

NeverendingAbyss wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:11 pm
huge asshole.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:46 pm

ZenithMC wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:34 am
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:30 pm
Ask him any vague question and rather than trying to answer it to the extent of his abilities, he will dismiss it under philosophical grounds. Example: "Why do you use X kind of guitar?" might be met with an answer like "I never ask 'Why' in my life." when he could simply say it was an arbitrary choice or he had it lying around. I think this behavior might be awe inspiring to his IQ-70 Facebook fans, and elevate him to a mystical figure, but for others it may be hard to understand.
This made me laugh! It reminds me of another pseudo-quote of his from this forum (I think it's from here, but I can't find it anymore), "The internet can be a safe place, if we try." :lol:
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:42 pm
And based on everything I saw, it was incredibly clear that most of the destruction was caused by Tolkki and not the rest of the band- just by his general behavior and attitude.
I agree.
The mental illness aspect comes in to play in these type of things. I don’t know if you’d want to blame anybody for their own illness, it’s unfortunate either way. We don’t know if it’s just the illness or if he is goofing around.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:45 am

robocop wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:46 pm
ZenithMC wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:34 am
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:30 pm
Ask him any vague question and rather than trying to answer it to the extent of his abilities, he will dismiss it under philosophical grounds. Example: "Why do you use X kind of guitar?" might be met with an answer like "I never ask 'Why' in my life." when he could simply say it was an arbitrary choice or he had it lying around. I think this behavior might be awe inspiring to his IQ-70 Facebook fans, and elevate him to a mystical figure, but for others it may be hard to understand.
This made me laugh! It reminds me of another pseudo-quote of his from this forum (I think it's from here, but I can't find it anymore), "The internet can be a safe place, if we try." :lol:
AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:42 pm
And based on everything I saw, it was incredibly clear that most of the destruction was caused by Tolkki and not the rest of the band- just by his general behavior and attitude.
I agree.
The mental illness aspect comes in to play in these type of things. I don’t know if you’d want to blame anybody for their own illness, it’s unfortunate either way. We don’t know if it’s just the illness or if he is goofing around.
What makes something an illness? In some cases, its a physically measurable thing like AIDS or heart disease. In psychology/sociology, we just slap labels of "disorder" onto any range of undesirable behaviors that have some prevalence in the field.

In other words, saying "he doesn't have an attitude, he's just mentally ill" doesn't make sense because the illness is defined by the symptoms rather than vice versa. Therefore the two are not mutually exclusive.

What bad luck for a person who happens to have bad symptoms in a way that does not neatly get categorized by the DSM-V (the big handbook they use to define mental and physological disorders). Then they have no excuse, but they are no more or less guilty than anyone else.

None of this has much to do with Tolkki though, I don't think how he answers questions is really a big deal and is not badly intentioned.

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Re: 2008 statements, Wayback Machine and the old.stratovarius.com stuff

Post by robocop » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:29 pm

Ooops. I was drunk posting. :oops:

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