Stratovarius (2005)

Here you can talk about Stratovarius and related bands. Language used is English.
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Motha-faka
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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:03 pm

Wikipedia wrote:The recommendation encourages the use of a wider dynamic range in production, despite not deprecating employing heavy dynamic compression a priori. In essence, it ties the use of using dynamic compression to artistic and aesthetic decisions, rather than the necessity of obtaining a louder mix. Link
[/quote]

This not happened with stratovarius and FINVOXX productions really. :shock:

All sound to "Wall extra compresed" in all the albums, i need analyze the last one like Eternal for example :idea:

and the actual metal productions looks for the most powerful sound in place to "expression" by that the old productions sound better that actual ones.

example?, Pink Floyd, Queen and more. have moderate compression and the albums got multiple winners in the market (Sound Engineer winners i mean)

if you listen the actual "Remasters" of Pink Floyd, you will want suicide :lol:
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Edit:

Anyway, Stratovarius Album 2005 the mastering Engineer was Svante Försback
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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:37 pm

ZenithMC wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:15 pm
robocop wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:19 am
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, some parts of the songs were clipping.
Color me surprised. The part in Zenith of Power where Hitler comes in is clipped somewhat, but It's not something that is easily audible. When you look at the waveform there, some of the peaks are clipped, which will produce a small amount of digital distortion.

That's the only place I found clipping, anyway.
On headphones, I can hear a slight buzzing of the earpieces that made me think that. Regardless, maybe they wanted it that way? It wouldn't bug most people. Unless I blew out my expensive headphones.

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:02 am

Motha-faka wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:03 pm


this happen when the mastering engineer abuse of COMPRESSOR.

exist two styles of Mastering in the music time.

One is that the music levels is moderate and the music got expression (F, SF, P,PP) (forte, semi forte, piano, pianissimo etc) :)

and the other one is that use FINVOXX and metal comunnity that is the "WALL OF SOUND", that is a exagerate compression application :)

The Queen Album "Made in heaven" have extra compression that clip in all parts too :shock:
I do like dynamics in a mix. But, it just isn't going to sound powerful enough for todays standards if it is not pushed to the limit. Like Zenith said about the LUFS standards, well, thing is different streaming services use different compression methods if I'm not certain. I mean, on places like TIDAL they have MASTERS of a bunch of stuff. It was very hard on my dogshit internet. :lol: I'm having some doubts they stream pure wav files. :lol:

In all seriousness, spotify has a setting for the volume where you can enable more dynamics at a lower volume, a higher volume and less dynamics setting, too.

Speaking of "wall of sound" have you ever heard Devin townsend's music? 😆

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Motha-faka
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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:51 pm

robocop wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:02 am

I do like dynamics in a mix. But, it just isn't going to sound powerful enough for todays standards if it is not pushed to the limit. Like Zenith said about the LUFS standards, well, thing is different streaming services use different compression methods if I'm not certain. I mean, on places like TIDAL they have MASTERS of a bunch of stuff. It was very hard on my dogshit internet. :lol: I'm having some doubts they stream pure wav files. :lol:

In all seriousness, spotify has a setting for the volume where you can enable more dynamics at a lower volume, a higher volume and less dynamics setting, too.

Speaking of "wall of sound" have you ever heard Devin townsend's music? 😆
The standard vs quality in the mix, you prefer follow the Standard, and make sound your music with out expression?

All the same and repetitive? this is the internal fights that have the Pro musicians, sometime they write music that after in the album not sound like they wrote

yesterday i was analyze the album Pink Floyd the wall, winner in charts in almost all the world, the album have a sensitive and emotional music expression, not sound all the same

Sorry but the Standard is a ball of shit! you maybe wanna sayd, The metal productions is a Standart, and you can see that all the metal productions sound all the same.

1. With out expression
2. cold, without life
3. Flat for the extra dynamics that have
4. all the same, band to band
5. Fuck out all the music composers of original composition

Listen this....



this is a maximun music expression and multiple awards in all the world...

Charts and awads 1979 - to 2020!!!! yes, the album continues winning!!! :shock:

Image
Image
Image
Image

Robo, this happened with Pink Floyd just get the correct production, apart of the music quality.
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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:11 pm

:)
Can you show me some metal songs that have more dynamics? I did not mean myself in particular. Just maybe if a modern metal album is not loud enough...people will just have to turn up the volume? :P Also, my ears hurt on prolong listening to lots of those type of mixes. Ear fatigue. I should get a vinyl rip of Pink Floyd and listen to it.

It is all a matter of opinion of course...
To make it sound "professional" is to make it as loud as possible in this modern day. :lol:
I barely know much about these topics...and I also struggle to make mixes with the right amount of volume and dynamics.

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by ZenithMC » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:26 pm

Motha-faka wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:51 pm
yesterday i was analyze the album Pink Floyd the wall, winner in charts in almost all the world, the album have a sensitive and emotional music expression, not sound all the same

Sorry but the Standard is a ball of shit! you maybe wanna sayd, The metal productions is a Standart, and you can see that all the metal productions sound all the same.

1. With out expression
2. cold, without life
3. Flat for the extra dynamics that have
4. all the same, band to band
5. Fuck out all the music composers of original composition
I feel like we're comparing apples to oranges here. While I don't disagree that there has been fuckery committed at the hands of mastering engineers and the like (from the 90's & onwards), Metal, as a genre, is just not very expressive or dynamic. Comparing the dynamics of, say, 70's era Genesis to any metal band is like night and day. And if we compare metal to jazz, a genre known for its extreme focus on dynamics & expression, the difference is exaggerated even further.

Another thing to consider is the target recording medium for distribution. In the 70's, that would be a vinyl record. During the mastering phase, vinyl records cannot be pushed as hard as a CD or digital recording, so they tend to be sound more dynamic. Ironically, redbook audio (16-bit PCM) has a much lower noise floor than vinyl records, so it has a greater potential for dynamic range. However, it has been abused due to its ability to store very compressed "waveforms" (16-bit values, really... Or "pits" representing binary information on a CD) without affecting the storage medium's integrity.

Currently, Infinite is Stratovarius' loudest album. "Freedom" is their loudest song, to date. Here are my ancient stats:

Code: Select all

foobar2000 1.3.6 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-05-09 21:43:46

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Stratovarius / Infinite
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR5       -0.10 dB    -6.94 dB      4:09 01-Hunting High and Low
DR5       -0.10 dB    -5.42 dB      4:09 02-Millenium
DR6       -0.10 dB    -9.10 dB      8:19 03-Mother Gaia
DR5       -0.14 dB    -6.46 dB      6:13 04-Phoenix
DR4       -0.14 dB    -5.22 dB      4:53 05-Glory of the World
DR6       -0.14 dB    -7.52 dB      5:20 06-A Million Light Years Away
DR4       -0.14 dB    -4.97 dB      5:03 07-Freedom
DR5       -0.10 dB    -6.95 dB      9:22 08-Infinity
DR9       -0.64 dB   -13.65 dB      3:19 09-Celestial Dream
DR6       -0.14 dB    -7.37 dB      5:11 10-What Can I Say
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  10
Official DR value: DR6

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           1411 kbps
Codec:             PCM
================================================================================

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:34 pm

wow Robo, you only have metal in the brain.... :lol:

the music have tons of styles, you know? ok, you dislike Pink Floyd.... ok.

but had the casuality that Pink Floyd is not comercial, had a multiple awards, not start very cool and find his mundial popularity recently in 1973 with the dark side of the moon, when pink floyd is from 1965. :lol:



can you listen that the intro sound very powerful and when start the band down the volume? this happen by the dynamics application.

Rhapsody of Fire have less dynamic aplication, the music sound with more expression, example



more examples? is clear, :x >=(
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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:05 am

Motha-faka wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:34 pm
wow Robo, you only have metal in the brain.... :lol:

the music have tons of styles, you know? ok, you dislike Pink Floyd.... ok.

but had the casuality that Pink Floyd is not comercial, had a multiple awards, not start very cool and find his mundial popularity recently in 1973 with the dark side of the moon, when pink floyd is from 1965. :lol:



can you listen that the intro sound very powerful and when start the band down the volume? this happen by the dynamics application.

Rhapsody of Fire have less dynamic aplication, the music sound with more expression, example



more examples? is clear, :x >=(
Cool! I like lots of music. Just we are talking in a metal band forum and said give me metal. 8)

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:50 am

talking of this bands....

Stratovarius are not rough Power Metal, they mix orchestra, classical music, and I think that Stratovarius are not following the correct path about mastering

Stratovarius need have a open mind and think in one engineer that can think in Classical music and metal in the same time and Open his mind to one more efficient work in master.

I love Stratovarius, but is sad that to me when I listen one flat production and without emotion production, Stratovarius is not all the time "Speed of Light" or "wolf and Raven"

they are losing a lot in his music but if is an production error only. :)

listen this.



is a great song, is not a rough powermetal, but sound completely flat, all the same, part of the production sound all the same and bored. is a good song fucked out.

LOL, Argentina is in Quatentine ... i have time to write in the forum :lol:
Last edited by Motha-faka on Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:13 am

Motha-faka wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:50 am
talking of this bands....

Stratovarius are not rough Power Metal, they mix orchestra, classical music, and I think that Stratovarius are not following the correct path about mastering

Stratovarius need have a open mind and think in one engineer that can think in Classical music and metal in the same time and Open his mind to one more eviffent work in master.

I love Stratovarius, but is sad that to me when I listen one flat production and without emotion production, Stratovarius is not all the time "Speed of Light" or "wolf and Raven"

they are losing a lot in his music but if is an production error only. :)

listen this. [...]

is a great song, is not a rough powermetal, but sound completenly flat, all the same, part of the production sound all the same and bored. is a good song fucked out.

LOL, Argentina is in Quatentine ... i have time to write in the forum :lol:
I actually agree with Flavio completely: I have complained about the same thing about Eternal in particular. The songs on that album are freakin' amazing, they just need a more dynamic production instead of the wall of sound.

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by ZenithMC » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:36 am

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:13 am
Motha-faka wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:50 am
talking of this bands....

Stratovarius are not rough Power Metal, they mix orchestra, classical music, and I think that Stratovarius are not following the correct path about mastering

Stratovarius need have a open mind and think in one engineer that can think in Classical music and metal in the same time and Open his mind to one more eviffent work in master.

I love Stratovarius, but is sad that to me when I listen one flat production and without emotion production, Stratovarius is not all the time "Speed of Light" or "wolf and Raven"

they are losing a lot in his music but if is an production error only. :)

listen this. [...]

is a great song, is not a rough powermetal, but sound completenly flat, all the same, part of the production sound all the same and bored. is a good song fucked out.

LOL, Argentina is in Quatentine ... i have time to write in the forum :lol:
I actually agree with Flavio completely: I have complained about the same thing about Eternal in particular. The songs on that album are freakin' amazing, they just need a more dynamic production instead of the wall of sound.
I don't know, guys... If you ask me, I'd say your beef is more with the mix, and less with the dynamic range. Case in point: if you enjoyed the production of Infinite, then it must be due to the mix, because Infinite is even more compressed (aka wall of sound) than Eternal.

Code: Select all

foobar2000 1.3.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-09-12 13:43:10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Stratovarius / Eternal
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR7       -0.10 dB    -7.92 dB      6:04 01-My Eternal Dream
DR7       -0.10 dB    -8.69 dB      5:05 02-Shine in the Dark
DR7       -0.12 dB    -8.06 dB      4:26 03-Rise Above It
DR7       -0.13 dB    -8.95 dB      5:28 04-Lost Without a Trace
DR7       -0.10 dB    -7.77 dB      4:11 05-Feeding the Fire
DR9       -2.26 dB   -12.35 dB      2:16 06-Endless Forest
DR7       -0.10 dB    -7.79 dB      5:28 07-Giants
DR7       -0.17 dB    -8.82 dB      4:19 08-In My Line of Work
DR7       -0.16 dB    -8.39 dB      4:43 09-Man in the Mirror
DR7       -0.10 dB    -8.23 dB      4:11 10-Few Are Those
DR8       -0.22 dB   -11.93 dB      4:15 11-Fire in Your Eyes
DR7       -0.14 dB    -9.24 dB     11:39 12-The Lost Saga
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  12
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           1411 kbps
Codec:             PCM
================================================================================
Okay, a DR of 7 is still not great, and I agree that a little more dynamic range would go a long way, but it's really the mix that I find being the largest flaw for Eternal.

Hell, even the Elements albums have a DR of 7! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Code: Select all

foobar2000 1.3.6 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-02-04 19:54:12

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Stratovarius / Elements Pt. 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR7       -0.10 dB    -8.39 dB      3:50 01-Eagleheart
DR7       -0.10 dB    -8.57 dB      7:21 02-Soul of a Vagabond
DR6       -0.23 dB    -7.56 dB      5:14 03-Find Your Own Voice
DR7       -0.10 dB    -9.11 dB      9:56 04-Fantasia
DR7       -0.10 dB    -7.45 dB      6:22 05-Learning to Fly
DR7       -0.10 dB   -11.43 dB      7:01 06-Papillon
DR6       -0.10 dB    -7.90 dB      3:26 07-Stratofortress
DR7       -0.10 dB    -8.59 dB     12:01 08-Elements
DR11      -0.95 dB   -15.22 dB      6:50 09-A Drop in the Ocean
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  9
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           1411 kbps
Codec:             PCM
================================================================================

foobar2000 1.3.6 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-02-04 19:49:42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Stratovarius / Elements Pt. 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR8       -0.10 dB    -8.98 dB      6:38 01-Alpha & Omega
DR7       -0.10 dB    -8.44 dB      5:04 02-I Walk to My Own Song
DR7       -0.10 dB    -8.29 dB      4:50 03-I'm Still Alive
DR7       -0.10 dB   -10.42 dB      6:09 04-Season of Faith's Perfection
DR8       -0.10 dB    -8.54 dB      6:37 05-Awaken the Giant
DR8       -0.10 dB    -8.58 dB      5:39 06-Know the Difference
DR7       -0.16 dB    -9.90 dB      4:49 07-Luminous
DR7       -0.10 dB    -8.70 dB      5:53 08-Dreamweaver
DR7       -0.10 dB    -8.79 dB      5:02 09-Liberty
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  9
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           1411 kbps
Codec:             PCM
================================================================================

foobar2000 1.3.6 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2015-02-04 19:53:05

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Stratovarius / Elements Bonus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR         Peak         RMS     Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR6       -0.42 dB    -7.29 dB      4:50 01-Run Away
DR7       -0.79 dB   -11.28 dB      5:37 02-Into Deep Blue
DR7       -0.10 dB    -7.83 dB      4:51 03-Ride Like the Wind
DR7       -0.10 dB   -11.44 dB      7:03 04-Papillon (French version)
DR5       -1.63 dB    -7.52 dB      7:53 05-Soul of a Vagabond (Live)
DR5       -1.51 dB    -8.72 dB     14:05 06-Destiny/Fantasia (Live)
DR11       0.00 dB   -14.61 dB      4:35 07-Forever (Live)
DR6       -1.97 dB    -9.23 dB      5:37 08-Paradise (Live)
DR6       -0.68 dB    -9.09 dB      7:15 09-Black Diamond (Live)
DR6       -2.46 dB    -9.41 dB      5:10 10-Hunting High and Low (Live)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks:  10
Official DR value: DR7

Samplerate:        44100 Hz
Channels:          2
Bits per sample:   16
Bitrate:           1411 kbps
Codec:             PCM
================================================================================

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:25 am

Dear zenith, i know that you are a good boy, handsome and nerd of stadistcs :lol:

stratovarius works with the same people in all his albums, and Stratovarius had always a dynamics problems just for this :shock:

happen that Eternal is a fucking disaster about sound, is the ass!! :x :lol:

stratovarius need Open his mind to new Horizons to win in the Future, or his music will sound horrible albums to albums again!

dear Zenith, you need think that elements and Infinite is timo tolkki sound and not matias kupiainen, they are both different producers!

but use the same master company - FINVOXX... and finvoxx in true, ran with luck with timo tolkki, tolkki use samples and have one style more clear that matias kupiainen, I can say the same with the other master engineer, Svante Försback :o

you wanna seee the difference?

Stratovarius 2005 Svante Försback



Stratovarius 2011 Svante Försback



you can see the difference? the huge difference is called Matias Kupiainen and Timo tolkki! but we need to say that Elysium sound much better that Eternal

now Stratovarius need put his forces in a new Horizon, why tolkki is not more the producer and now is Matias Kupiainen, that have other different style to Timo Tolkki, Stratovarius need find the correct Master Engineer to compense the new style of production, Finvoxx and Svante Försback is Obsolete to the new Stratovarius!

i'm writing with my phone. my english can be horrible, sorry :D
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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:33 pm

Motha-faka wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:25 am
i'm writing with my phone. my english can be horrible, sorry :D
I can't tell the difference. Have you taken English Skype lessons from Tolkki?!?

One thing I was getting mixed up above posting was mp3 compression and mixing and mastering compression.

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:16 pm

robocop wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:33 pm
Motha-faka wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:25 am
i'm writing with my phone. my english can be horrible, sorry :D
I can't tell the difference. Have you taken English Skype lessons from Tolkki?!?

One thing I was getting mixed up above posting was mp3 compression and mixing and mastering compression.
Poor tolkki, is the bag to punch in this forum :lol:

I have english again in the University, 3 levels of English and i'm practicing with a phone app :lol:

about mastering, is not good the MP3 to mastering, the Mp3 Compression you lost part of the sound. Is necesary use .wav as minimal 44100 x16 bits
I had use to my songs 48/24 when i record or master, as minimal, i can record or mastering at 192-32 that is support my audio card.

actually, exist mastering Services online, I dontr tested but maybe is a Generic mastering technique. your album can sound all the same and cold.

to me is cool use a data server to international countries and do a cool job in plase of a generic sound. :wink:
I'm a huge Fuck :x

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:22 pm

Motha-faka wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:16 pm
robocop wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:33 pm
Motha-faka wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:25 am
i'm writing with my phone. my english can be horrible, sorry :D
I can't tell the difference. Have you taken English Skype lessons from Tolkki?!?

One thing I was getting mixed up above posting was mp3 compression and mixing and mastering compression.
Poor tolkki, is the bag to punch in this forum :lol:

I have english again in the University, 3 levels of English and i'm practicing with a phone app :lol:

about mastering, is not good the MP3 to mastering, the Mp3 Compression you lost part of the sound. Is necesary use .wav as minimal 44100 x16 bits
I had use to my songs 48/24 when i record or master, as minimal, i can record or mastering at 192-32 that is support my audio card.

actually, exist mastering Services online, I dontr tested but maybe is a Generic mastering technique. your album can sound all the same and cold.

to me is cool use a data server to international countries and do a cool job in plase of a generic sound. :wink:
You're better now compared to before.

Soundcloud has this mastering shit built in that you have to pay for now.
:lol:

Zenith knows more about the audio compressions formats other than the flac I know of. They are supposed to be pretty good. Remember windows audio format? Hahahahaha.

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:34 pm

robocop wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:22 pm
Motha-faka wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:16 pm
robocop wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:33 pm

I can't tell the difference. Have you taken English Skype lessons from Tolkki?!?

One thing I was getting mixed up above posting was mp3 compression and mixing and mastering compression.
Poor tolkki, is the bag to punch in this forum :lol:

I have english again in the University, 3 levels of English and i'm practicing with a phone app :lol:

about mastering, is not good the MP3 to mastering, the Mp3 Compression you lost part of the sound. Is necesary use .wav as minimal 44100 x16 bits
I had use to my songs 48/24 when i record or master, as minimal, i can record or mastering at 192-32 that is support my audio card.

actually, exist mastering Services online, I dontr tested but maybe is a Generic mastering technique. your album can sound all the same and cold.

to me is cool use a data server to international countries and do a cool job in plase of a generic sound. :wink:
You're better now compared to before.

Soundcloud has this mastering shit built in that you have to pay for now.
:lol:

Zenith knows more about the audio compressions formats other than the flac I know of. They are supposed to be pretty good. Remember windows audio format? Hahahahaha.
Of Course; Robo! the infamous WMA, Windows media format!, what piece of shit!!

:lol:
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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:15 pm

Motha-faka wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:34 pm

Of Course; Robo! the infamous WMA, Windows media format!, what piece of shit!!

:lol:
I have been looking up dynamic metal albums. Earache records (death metal) released a bunch of full dynamic range albums. Here is one from a metal band that is acoustic. Popular death metal band but this is a acoustic interlude.


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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by ZenithMC » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:04 pm

robocop wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:22 pm
Zenith knows more about the audio compressions formats other than the flac I know of. They are supposed to be pretty good. Remember windows audio format? Hahahahaha.
WavPack is the lesser known lossless audio compression format that, with extreme settings, outperforms FLAC. However, the amount of time necessary to render the encoded file is almost never justified. My lossy audio compression encoding of choice is Opus. Set the bitrate to 112 kbits/s and you'll have one super tiny audio file that you'd never know is lossily encoded.

This reminds me: if you're ever looking for a good laugh, go visit an audiophile forum. They usually contain little nuggets of "wisdom". :lol: Here's an excerpt that made me lol:
The established sense is decoding stresses the CPU and sounds worse therefore. Even aif and wav is claimed to sound different.
I read this and I was like, "um... what?" :lol: Anyone with a technical background would understand that these statements are bullshit.

Decoding an audio stream will not make it sound better or worse. Decoding merely translates the data from a compressed format into a format that the sound card can recognize. The act of encoding is what can make something sound worse, but only if the encoder is lossy in nature (because information is permanently discarded).

"Even aif and wav is claimed to sound different." Hahahahaha! :lol: It's funny that people believe this, because this claim is utterly ignorant. Both of those formats are containers that contain PCM data. PCM data is uncompressed audio data (usually 2 channel interleaved 16-bit signed little-endian format @ 44100 Hz). Containers have nothing to do with the data that they're storing, nor do they have any influence over the integrity of the data they contain. They usually contain metadata whichs describes the data within and how to later interpret that data.

Here's the wave format spec, for nerds: http://soundfile.sapp.org/doc/WaveFormat/
Describes both aiff and wav formats, with (rather crude) C source examples, again for nerds: http://paulbourke.net/dataformats/audio/

There was also some recording engineer saying things like, "try recording in 192/24, you'll love it!" Why would anyone love it? Maybe if I were a dolphin, I'd love it. What's the point of recording with sample rates that record sounds humans cannot hear (not to mention that most typical microphones only record up to 20 kHz anyway...)? With 192 kHz sampling rate, you can record sounds up to 96 kHz... but humans can only hear up to 20 kHz. :lol: I'll admit, even I've bought into this somewhat, and I feel silly for doing it, but I record @ 96/24 for absolutely arbitrary reasons. :oops: I think I just hate having free hard drive space! :lol:
Motha-faka wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:25 am
Dear zenith, i know that you are a good boy, handsome and nerd of stadistcs :lol:
Yeah, pretty much. :lol:

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Motha-faka
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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:34 am

what do you think about this demo, guys, TONS OF DYNAMICS!! TIMO TOLKKI SLEEP WITH A COMPRESSOR MODULE IN HIS POCKET!! :D

BUT HIS IS WHY FINVOXX AND Svante Försback END HIS MASTERING WORK SUPER CLEAR!! the Timo Tolkki style of Production. :shock:



is a impressive drum sound, KILLER DRUMS!! I LOVE IT!!

COMPARED, JUST WITH ETERNAL OR ENIGMA SONG? DEAR GOSH... WHY STRATOVARIUS FALL SO LOW IN HIS SOUND... is a EQ problem in the mastering??, maybe yes..... :shock:



dear gosh... ok the new standard says that one high limiter need not superate 3db but the equalization of this?? WHY SO FUCKING LOW, WITHOUT BRIGHT AND FLAT!! >=( :x

THE SAME WITH CAIN OFFERING ALBUM... >=( :x



HERE DIRECTLY THE DRUM IS OUT :shock:

COMMENTS GUYS!! IF YOU DONT COMMENT, YOU HAVE THE BELLY OF TIMO TOLKKI!! :D :lol:
I'm a huge Fuck :x

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by ZenithMC » Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:11 am

Okay. Listen here, Flavio. I only commented because I absolutely DO NOT want the belly of Timo Tolkki. :shock: :lol:

I 1,000,000% agree with you. The mix on Enigma and Stormcrow lack brightness and clarity, especially Stormcrow. Stormcrow is a perfect example of how NOT to mix drums for power metal. They sound like an afterthought. Actually, I really dislike the sound of both of these album's drum production. I think Matias really likes that dark dull sound. It's the complete opposite of my tastes, however.

Now, about that Revolution Renaissance demo. Yes, the drums sound awesome... except for the ridiculous compressor pumping & breathing that occurs any time the tom-toms come in. That's a massive oversight. It sounds like it's attenuating every track by at least 10 dB every time they're played. :lol: Another thing here is that, well, I think the drums are too loud in relation to the other instruments. If the pumping & breathing was eliminated and the drums were placed somewhat lower in the mix, I'd say the production would be nearly perfect.

Now, if only we could merge Tolkki-era production with Matias-era compositions. Ah... I'd be in heaven! :D

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:03 am

IM GONNA TRY WAVEPACK AND OPUS TONIGHT AMD REPORT BACK. HOPEFULLY.

Flavio, what you miss is the 80s gated reverb on the snare? I like that too. Tolkkimeister says he uses tommy Lee samples on toms and alesis on kicks. I have an alesis module. Lucky me but I don't give a shit. :wink:

Edit.
Command line? :shock:

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:21 am

ZenithMC wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:11 am
Okay. Listen here, Flavio. I only commented because I absolutely DO NOT want the belly of Timo Tolkki. :shock: :lol:

I 1,000,000% agree with you. The mix on Enigma and Stormcrow lack brightness and clarity, especially Stormcrow. Stormcrow is a perfect example of how NOT to mix drums for power metal. They sound like an afterthought. Actually, I really dislike the sound of both of these album's drum production. I think Matias really likes that dark dull sound. It's the complete opposite of my tastes, however.

Now, about that Revolution Renaissance demo. Yes, the drums sound awesome... except for the ridiculous compressor pumping & breathing that occurs any time the tom-toms come in. That's a massive oversight. It sounds like it's attenuating every track by at least 10 dB every time they're played. :lol: Another thing here is that, well, I think the drums are too loud in relation to the other instruments. If the pumping & breathing was eliminated and the drums were placed somewhat lower in the mix, I'd say the production would be nearly perfect.

Now, if only we could merge Tolkki-era production with Matias-era compositions. Ah... I'd be in heaven! :D
I think that is possible with a dedicated work of mastering, if matias force to make all dark... shit... he is shitting out in the music.... :shock:
the matia's productions can go more old stratovarius style with a better job in EQ in the mastering job... :shock:

but i think that any of both mastering engineers don't want do it, I think that they are doing a generic job, just one that do in all the albums and for all the bands :?

I wold love to listen a matia's job without mastering and see if is so dark, flat and generic like Intermission 2 and Eternal. :shock:

PD: Zenith not have the tolkki's belly, he have six packs of abs, now :D :lol:

PD2: Robocop is muscle now, he comment in the post :D :lol:
I'm a huge Fuck :x

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by ZenithMC » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:32 am

robocop wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:03 am
IM GONNA TRY WAVEPACK AND OPUS TONIGHT AMD REPORT BACK. HOPEFULLY.
[...]
Edit.
Command line? :shock:
Yeah... Get FFmpeg. It's a bit of a clusterfuck, but it contains every codec under the sun. It's a command line tool. If you need help using it for stuff, let me know. I'm a bit of an FFmpeg wizard. :lol:

Additional instructions for Windows: Okay, it's not as easy as clicking download anymore, it seems... I guess go here instead https://www.gyan.dev/ffmpeg/builds/ and look for "release" and download */ffmpeg-release-full.zip. Extract that zip somewhere, like C:\ffmpeg\.

To run ffmpeg from anywhere while on the command line, do the following: go to "Control Panel > System > Advanced system settings" and click on "Environment Variables...". Under "System variables", scroll down until you find "Path". Click on it and hit "Edit...". To the very end, add ";C:\ffmpeg\bin\" without the parentheses (that semicolon is important, so don't forget it). Hit "OK" "OK" "OK". This is how it works for Windows 8, anyway. Hopefully it's similar for other Windows versions.

(On Linux, this would've been a lot less complicated) :lol:

With that out of the way, press the meta key (windows key) and R. Type "cmd" without the parentheses and press enter. That should launch the command line terminal. Now, if you type in ffmpeg and hit enter, it should display the version info and the compile-time features. If it says that it isn't recognized, then the environment variable step didn't succeed for some reason.

For the best compression / time trade off with WavPack, try:

Code: Select all

ffpmeg -i "$input" -c:a wavpack -compression_level 2 "$output"
Replace "$input" with the song and "$output" with the compressed song, of course. Also important: the file extension that WavPack uses is .wv. FFmpeg will complain if the extension has nothing to do with the encoding, unless you also pass -f after "$input" but before "$output". So, put .wv at the end of the output filename.

It's faster than FLAC and it offers a better compression ratio (usually by < 1 MiB). FLAC, even on highest (slowest) settings, is less efficient than WavPack.

Don't use a higher compression level than 2 with WavPack. Anything higher is considerably slower and the size reduction ratio diminishes very quickly. I tried out compression level 8 (the highest setting) and it took about 20 minutes just to compress a single song! :shock: :lol: It only ended up being 99,896 bytes (~97.6 KiB) smaller than compression level 2, too.

"Father Time" went from 52.4 MiB to 38.0 MiB with WavPack and to 38.7 MiB with FLAC. Not a big difference, but WavPack is way faster.

If you want to use FLAC with ffmpeg:

Code: Select all

ffmpeg -i "$input" -c:a flac -compression_level 12 "$output"
Compression level 12 is the highest for FLAC and what you'd usually want. It doesn't take all too long to render. The extension should be .flac.

Here's the line for opus:

Code: Select all

ffmpeg -i "$input" -c:a libopus -b:a 112k "$output"
It reduces "Father Time" from 52.4 MiB down to 3.9 MiB and it sounds lossless. :shock: Too bad car stereos are unlikely to support Opus... :( Also, the extension for the output should be .opus.
Motha-faka wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:21 am
PD: Zenith not have the tolkki's belly, he have six packs of abs, now :D :lol:
Ah... Crisis averted. :lol: Now if you don't mind, I'm going to go eat Kirby's ass.

Image

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:54 am

Very hard..very, very hard. Very, very bad. :lol:

Thanks for the whole tutorial. Speaking of STORMCROW, I never really hated the album. That was my fav when it came out. Now, just the other day I noticed like what you were saying on my 40 dollar headphones. I still like the songs. I just listened to them soooooo much originally that I can't anymore. :lol:

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:28 am

robocop wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:54 am
Very hard..very, very hard. Very, very bad. :lol:

Thanks for the whole tutorial. Speaking of STORMCROW, I never really hated the album. That was my fav when it came out. Now, just the other day I noticed like what you were saying on my 40 dollar headphones. I still like the songs. I just listened to them soooooo much originally that I can't anymore. :lol:
That is a great album, I did the same thing! Also the same with the debut. But "A night to remember" is the worst song Kotipelto ever sang. I hate it. :lol:

Some of Jani's songwriting is a bit generic but the way it all comes together on those albums is fantastic. My favorite is Rising Sun. Masterpiece song!

I also agree that the mix is poor, though only in hindsight. Cain's offering music is much less complex than Eternal and the lack of clarity in the mix is more tolerable. It never bothered me at the time but I can see it now.

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by ZenithMC » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:13 am

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:28 am
robocop wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:54 am
Very hard..very, very hard. Very, very bad. :lol:

Thanks for the whole tutorial. Speaking of STORMCROW, I never really hated the album. That was my fav when it came out. Now, just the other day I noticed like what you were saying on my 40 dollar headphones. I still like the songs. I just listened to them soooooo much originally that I can't anymore. :lol:
That is a great album, I did the same thing! Also the same with the debut. But "A night to remember" is the worst song Kotipelto ever sang. I hate it. :lol:

Some of Jani's songwriting is a bit generic but the way it all comes together on those albums is fantastic. My favorite is Rising Sun. Masterpiece song!

I also agree that the mix is poor, though only in hindsight. Cain's offering music is much less complex than Eternal and the lack of clarity in the mix is more tolerable. It never bothered me at the time but I can see it now.
"A Song to Forget" for A10. :lol:

Yeah, guys. I like this one a lot, too. A10's feelings are similar to mine. I also love the intro of My Heart Beats for No One. One other thing that bothers me about its production, though, is that some of Jani's juicy solos are barely audible. :(

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by Motha-faka » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:40 am

I delete my last post with is not my business, sorry, i did jump excited :lol: :D

But I hate the mastering job that stratovarius do in his albums, really.... :x

Zenith have all the reason, If the new Stratovarius get the Timo Tolkki Style in production, is the heaven :cry:

but i insist that this can be solve with a particular or special EQ in the mastering.... >=(

I tested Cain Offering in my Notebook, that speakers predomine the High Frequencies, you can listen the drums and jani. :err:

sound like plastic bubbles crashing but you can listen the drums :shock: with a super noise rythm guitar, one massive keyboard in base, but tiny lead guitar and lead keyboard, kotipelto is ok, and the bass guitar really not exist in the mix :shock:

ok my notebook is not a huge machine is one HP G42 - 362la that I tuned to work decent in 2020 (more ram 8gb dual channel ddr3 + ssd disk and windows 10 pro) :eyes

but really, in the end we discover that Timo Tolkki is not to bad after all. :shock:

I think that Stratovarius can put his accent in the mastering job, is his weak spot.

I mean, HUGE PROFESSINAL STUDIOS and sound like Eternal and Intermission 2? come on, is a tragedy for be professionals in mastering :roll:

Listen this, a masterpiece in sound.

I'm a huge Fuck :x

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by SentineLEX » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:56 pm

The fact that Freedom is their loudest song is probably why I love it so much on a subconscious level. Infinite was my first Strato album and that was my favorite track for a few weeks.

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by robocop » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:08 am

SentineLEX wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:56 pm
The fact that Freedom is their loudest song is probably why I love it so much on a subconscious level. Infinite was my first Strato album and that was my favorite track for a few weeks.
That’s a good topic. What was your first strato album?

I believe it was on soulseek that I downloaded the kiss of Judas video after hearing about sonata, it automatically came up on a search.

Later, my friend bought elements and visions from ebay. Of course I borrowed them. I don’t remember when I listened to the rest. I do remember all the rips I could find online were terrible sounding. Later on, another friend bought most of the albums and I got a better listen to them. Infinite sounded so huge. But from what we see here, it could just be that’s it’s all the volume. It does sound huge either way. :o :wink:

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Re: Stratovarius (2005)

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:14 pm

SentineLEX wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:56 pm
The fact that Freedom is their loudest song is probably why I love it so much on a subconscious level. Infinite was my first Strato album and that was my favorite track for a few weeks.
I could never get into it because of that exact reason. :lol: That was a sanic level ear rape.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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