Solitude (1994-1995)

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SentineLEX
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Solitude (1994-1995)

Post by SentineLEX » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:23 am

I only discovered this song today after listening to the entire first TT solo album.



I looked around but I couldn't find it on the B-side of any of the singles, despite being on the "Singles B-Sides" bootleg. It's credited to Stratovarius but given the lineup on the first album that seems like it just means that Jari played the bass instead of Timo.

It seems that TT cannibalized this song - the verses, with some minor modifications and new lyrics, would form the verses of Neon Light Child on the Infinite album. But more interestingly he lifted the "fading like a dream, away from me" line and added it, without any changes, to "Angel" in Revolution Renaissance (what would become the New Era album). "Welcome to my world, close the door" is reused in Fantasia but with a different melody.

On the subject of early Strato bonus tracks, here is a little more well-known one, especially for this forum, but probably one that doesn't get listened to as often as it should - the Dreamspace bonus track Full Moon!

Last edited by SentineLEX on Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Solitude (1994)

Post by ZenithMC » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:23 pm

Wow! How many people didn't know about this song, I wonder? :shock: I listened to CVAT on YouTube ~5 years ago and knew about it since then. It was included on the Flavio (Argentinean) version of CVAT, which was first released in 1996 in that country, according to this: https://www.discogs.com/Timo-Tolkki-Cla ... se/8783391.

It seems that CVAT & Fourth Dimension were recorded concurrently.
Fourth Dimension: June–October 1994
Classical Variations and Themes: July–August 1994
both @ Soundtrack Studios in Helsinki

Just for the record, here is the time frame for Episode:
October 1995 – February 1996

This raises a couple questions that I'm not sure are definitively answered:
1. Who exactly performed on Solitude? Obviously, Kotipelto is on vocals and Tolkki is on guitar, but the performers of the other instruments I'm not so sure of. If Lassila did in fact perform here, then that would mean that Solitude was recorded in 1994. If he did not, then Solitude was recorded in 1995. Take note of the picture of the back of the album on discogs. It says "12. (Solitude) ℗ 1995". ℗ is the sound recording copyright symbol. This makes it likely that it was recorded in 1995, the year that Lassila left Stratovarius.

2. Was Solitude envisioned as a track on Episode? Not really sure about this either. Listening to the song, I can tell that this was not recorded during the CVAT sessions due to the stark differences in production, especially the drum tuning (That snare is tuned very low, with almost identical production to the production present on Lead Us into the Light). The tom-toms sound muted, like Lassila's (I think he used to put duct tape on them or something). However, the crash cymbals sound nothing like Lassila's crash cymbals. The ride cymbal sounds exactly like Lassila's ride cymbal. :lol:

If I knew the exact month that Argentinean CVAT was released and the exact month that Lassila left Stratovarius, I could determine the line up. Alternatively, anyone know if Lassila had splash cymbals? :lol:

Edit: Yeah, there's contradictory info here. Whatever. That's what happens when I come across new info and don't edit my posts to reflect that later.
SentineLEX wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:23 am
It seems that TT cannibalized this song - the verses, with some minor modifications and new lyrics, would form the verses of Neon Light Child on the Infinite album. But more interestingly he lifted the "fading like a dream, away from me" line and added it, without any changes, to "Angel" in Revolution Renaissance (what would become the New Era album). "Welcome to my world, close the door" is reused in Fantasia but with a different melody.
I noticed this. Interesting stuff. :)

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Re: Solitude (1994)

Post by SentineLEX » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:28 pm

I actually didn't realize it was TK singing until you brought it up. W H O O P S

The cover printed in this video shows two copyrights for track 12: 1994 Dark Wings, and 1995 NEMS (the discogs version doesn't have any year for Dark Wings)

I did find more info from a thread on the forum from 2006: viewtopic.php?p=359322&sid=31be6c246154 ... b0#p359322

But even in that thread there is confusion about who the drummer is. I can't find too many search results about that compilation album - most of them are in German and I can't find anything more concrete than the release year in any of them: https://www.musik-sammler.de/release/si ... cd-423684/. The Angra song did appear on the debut in 1993, but I'm not sure if the Kamelot song appeared on here first or on their debut (released July 1995). Episode of course came out the following year. With or without the inclusion of the song it would've appeared on this album first.

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Re: Solitude (1994-1995)

Post by ZenithMC » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:57 pm

SentineLEX wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:28 pm
The cover printed in this video shows two copyrights for track 12: 1994 Dark Wings, and 1995 NEMS (the discogs version doesn't have any year for Dark Wings)
Ah, this means that there are other versions released in South America which contain Solitude. The Discogs catalogue is incomplete.
SentineLEX wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:28 pm
I did find more info from a thread on the forum from 2006: viewtopic.php?p=359322&sid=31be6c246154 ... b0#p359322

But even in that thread there is confusion about who the drummer is. I can't find too many search results about that compilation album - most of them are in German and I can't find anything more concrete than the release year in any of them: https://www.musik-sammler.de/release/si ... cd-423684/. The Angra song did appear on the debut in 1993, but I'm not sure if the Kamelot song appeared on here first or on their debut (released July 1995). Episode of course came out the following year. With or without the inclusion of the song it would've appeared on this album first.
Double ah, I was unaware of this sampler. That was the first release with Solitude on it in 1995. It's very frustrating that the release month is not specified. Since the sampler was released in 1995, it's likely that the recording took place in early 1995 (or perhaps even earlier). Anyway, I'm heavily leaning towards Lassila being the drummer on Solitude, for aforementioned reasons. I guess I could just ask Tolkki directly on FB, I don't know. :lol:
Last edited by ZenithMC on Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Solitude (1994-1995)

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:58 pm

Yeah solitude is a nice little track. Way underdeveloped and I suspect that's why TT included some of its pieces in Neon Light Child and Angel.

Full Moon is still weird to me.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: Solitude (1994-1995)

Post by SentineLEX » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:04 pm

ZenithMC wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:57 pm
SentineLEX wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:28 pm
The cover printed in this video shows two copyrights for track 12: 1994 Dark Wings, and 1995 NEMS (the discogs version doesn't have any year for Dark Wings)
Ah, this means that there are other versions released in South America which contain Solitude. The Discogs catalogue is incomplete.
SentineLEX wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:28 pm
I did find more info from a thread on the forum from 2006: viewtopic.php?p=359322&sid=31be6c246154 ... b0#p359322

But even in that thread there is confusion about who the drummer is. I can't find too many search results about that compilation album - most of them are in German and I can't find anything more concrete than the release year in any of them: https://www.musik-sammler.de/release/si ... cd-423684/. The Angra song did appear on the debut in 1993, but I'm not sure if the Kamelot song appeared on here first or on their debut (released July 1995). Episode of course came out the following year. With or without the inclusion of the song it would've appeared on this album first.
Double ah, I was unaware of this sampler. That was the first release with Solitude on it in 1995. It's very frustrating that the release month is not specified. Since the sampler was released in 1995, it's likely that the recording took place in early 1995 (or perhaps even earlier). Anyway, I'm heavily leaning towards Lassila being the drummer on Solitude, for aforementioned reasons. I guess I could just ask Tolkki directly on FB, I don't know. :lol:
Honestly if he's willing to talk about it I'm willing to listen. Maybe he'll even make another alt and come post on the forum some more :)

Both versions of the album (discogs and Youtube screenshot) are published by NEMS though, so it might still be coming out of Argentina. Different release series or something? I'm not sure why the back covers are different.

Also today I learned NEMS was founded by Tarja Turunen's husband. Small world.

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Re: Solitude (1994-1995)

Post by adrian9 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:19 pm

Pretty sure it has to be Lassila, I think TT said before that CVAT and Fourth Dimension were recorded at the same time/sessions
A9

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Re: Solitude (1994-1995)

Post by Pancio » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:53 pm

adrian9 wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:19 pm
Pretty sure it has to be Lassila, I think TT said before that CVAT and Fourth Dimension were recorded at the same time/sessions
Yes, Classical Variations and Themes is a compilation of Tolkki's ideas for Stratovarius then used as a solo project.
Back to the Ice Age, Lord of the Rings, Fire Dance Suite and a couple of other songs were performed during Fourth Dimension European Tour and Solitude is (badly) performed by Kotipelto.

The musicians on the album? I don't know, CVAT and FD were recorded at the same time but I think some drum parts were programmed while the vast majority is played by Tolkki, Lassila and Ikonen
16035439854579193832912758126525.jpg

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Re: Solitude (1994-1995)

Post by Motha-faka » Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:13 pm

Pancio always Punch and criticize to Timo Tolkki but in his deep heart he love him :luv1:

including the post nice photos of his Album in CD

Teddy 1 is Pancio and Teddy 2 is timo tolkki :luv1:

Image
I'm a huge Fuck :x

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Re: Solitude (1994-1995)

Post by Pancio » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:08 am

Motha-faka wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:13 pm
Pancio always Punch and criticize to Timo Tolkki but in his deep heart he love him :luv1:

including the post nice photos of his Album in CD

Teddy 1 is Pancio and Teddy 2 is timo tolkki :luv1:

Image
I always criticize Tolkki as a person and for what he became as a musician, not for his past career which I like and was a big part of my teenage years (not everything tho).
On top of that my point of view is that you need to know something in order to criticize it, and this is precisely the reason I purchased everything he made and I can say his skills decreased since 2003 with "good" works (Allen/Lande and the first Avalon)

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Re: Solitude (1994-1995)

Post by Ingo » Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:51 pm

I was going to shed some light on this rare track, but I see the link to an older thread from 2006 tells it all.
I can confirm it. I had a sampler called "silent crying" in my hands around 1997/1998/1999 and found this tracks on it.
I remember that it was anounced "from the upcoming album Episode". I didn't know it was THAT rare and wasn't so much into ballads, so I decided against buying it. :shock: When Intermission was announced in 2001 I REALLY expected that track would be part of it! :eyes
Checking google I find the review of that sampler in the german Rock Hard Magazine 106 which was released on 28.2.1996.
So that song was released "semi-official" at the End of 1995/ early 1996. :)

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