Stratovarius in Japan

Here you can talk about Stratovarius and related bands. Language used is English.
TimoTolkki
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by TimoTolkki » Sun May 27, 2007 10:15 pm

There are, of course, web pages that publish trivial things that are really not much more than drivel written by a bored kid that still lives in his mom's basement.
I disagree completely. This is a common argument that tries to push the problem away too easily.
But don't you think that life is simply too short to worry about the postings of people that are still stuck in such an adolescent mentality?
Yes it is, if you worry. I see it differently. Whatever comes to my path, I deal with it the way I see is right. I don´t care what it is or who it is or where it is but if I see it is wrong then I do what I can to make it right or at least give my opinion.
Yes, you could smack someone in the face that said that to you in person, but would it raise their I.Q. by even a single digit?
I have never ever anywhere been pro violence in any situation as your comment suggests. What I wrote was to demonstrate a point how different it is to write it in internet and say it to my face. I do think if you go to a musician and say "Hi Ron, I hate your album and the Lawnmover Waltz really sucks" then you are either:

1 really young and are in obvious need that somebody set limits to you
and your omnipotent arrogance

2 You have a serious character problem

Like I wrote, most musicians dislike "judging" of their songs even if you are polite. It depends usually how long you have been in the business.
For me it doesnt matter anymore, but I write these few lines for other reasons. To raise awarness about more humane way to communicate that is based on tolerance and respect of another human being even when you dislike the music or person.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Carcass » Sun May 27, 2007 10:52 pm

Like I wrote, most musicians dislike "judging" of their songs even if you are polite. It depends usually how long you have been in the business.
Most people dislike being criticized. This is not just a musician thing.

If you deal with every turd you meet in your life and try to explain yourself to them you are simply wasting your time. If you don't want to get offended you can't really leave your flat, can you. :wink:

Besides, this whole thing was sparked by a totally innocent comment in my opinion. Like IceBreaker said, they have had a friendly argument on which song is better. Forums are like diners, people talk without seriously contemplating on each and every word. The case would've been very different had he used the same words addressing you.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by stratoplayer » Sun May 27, 2007 11:30 pm

Well, I don't know if IB really meant it how he said, sometimes I use strong words with my friends but never mean them, like "Hey man, what the fuck were you thinking with X or Y", but they know that I am outspoken and mean no harm. True, it is not polite nor right but I have always believed that words do not matter as much as the intention behind them (hence, sarcasm, but it is just one example). For example here in Mexico we are very bad mouthed and we use insults to address friends but without the insulting connotation, "Sí cabrón." (sort of "Yeah SOB") are used between best friends. The thing is that you don't mean it.

IB saying destiny sucks is a bit strong yes, but maybe it was just his way of saying he just does not like it, no offense intended whatsoever.

And yes, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and not everyone wants to know about it!
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Lapazeus » Mon May 28, 2007 12:16 am

In my opinion, this topic at hand is connected with a problem all too common in written communication, namely the fact that it is hard to know whether a person is being serious or not. When the person’s tone of voice can’t be heard or the body language seen, it is easy to condemn a particular comment as offensive. However, this is often not the case.

For example, when a comedian says during his performance that he "really hates the police, because...", the context implicates to the audience that the statement shouldn't be taken literally or seriously. The comedian wouldn't necessarily tell the joke to a police officer on street, but that doesn't mean he is spreading hatred in the world. On the contrary, he is making people laugh, and that individual phrase is meaningless if not taken out of its context.

The same applies here to some extent. Icebreaker is jokingly provoking another person on an issue they disagree i.e. the quality of a particular song. Because he communicates his thoughts only through written medium, misunderstandings can happen as the full context or the tone of the comment can't be known to everyone.

However, imposing 'Politically Correct' language on everyone, and for every situation, is not the answer.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by stratoplayer » Mon May 28, 2007 2:16 am

Lapazeus wrote:However, imposing 'Politically Correct' language on everyone, and for every situation, is not the answer.
Indeed, that would be too imposing and would cause some major resentment. And I agree wholeheartedly with what you said concerning written communication.
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by IceBreaker » Mon May 28, 2007 2:30 am

Carcass wrote:Like IceBreaker said, they have had a friendly argument on which song is better. Forums are like diners, people talk without seriously contemplating on each and every word. The case would've been very different had he used the same words addressing you.
Lapazeus wrote:namely the fact that it is hard to know whether a person is being serious or not. When the person’s tone of voice can’t be heard or the body language seen, it is easy to condemn a particular comment as offensive.

The same applies here to some extent. Icebreaker is jokingly provoking another person on an issue they disagree i.e. the quality of a particular song. Because he communicates his thoughts only through written medium, misunderstandings can happen as the full context or the tone of the comment can't be known to everyone.
You both got the point. In forums you normally just want to try express what you´re thinking, using mostly the words which you find easy to express yourself. Not always the most tolerant. Specially if the forum is having some kind of strong tone. So you´re getting using provoking words, although you don´t want to harm anybody. And, if you want act sarcastically, then you usually turn using more provoking or even mean words. Which could look sometimes very harsh, if the reader doesn´t understand immeadiately it was written in sarcastic way. Sometimes because either the writer or the reader is too simple or arrogant to understand it correctly, or if the writer hasn´t got too good writing (or language) skills.

What I meant with that comment is what Carcass or Lapazeus guessed, was a sarcastic comment, like we had done here already many times, in a friendly way. Unnecessary friendly opinion argument, like Carcass mentioned. Not insulting anyone.

I know I should have used better way to communicate or leave the whole thing alone. But it is the effect of too fast, easy thinking. Which really is not the best manner.
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by TimoTolkki » Mon May 28, 2007 6:29 am

Carcass wrote:
Like I wrote, most musicians dislike "judging" of their songs even if you are polite. It depends usually how long you have been in the business.
Most people dislike being criticized. This is not just a musician thing.

If you deal with every turd you meet in your life and try to explain yourself to them you are simply wasting your time. If you don't want to get offended you can't really leave your flat, can you. :wink:

Besides, this whole thing was sparked by a totally innocent comment in my opinion. Like IceBreaker said, they have had a friendly argument on which song is better. Forums are like diners, people talk without seriously contemplating on each and every word. The case would've been very different had he used the same words addressing you.
Set aside the Icebreaker thing, he very well knows that he (and many others) have used "xxxx sucks" also in other situations than "provoking friends".
You didnt get my point. I wasnt offended about what IB wrote, I am using it as an example about negative communication. Sure you can always say "it´s okay in our culture" etc but that is not the answer. If you and your friends choose a particular way of speaking, thats of course more than fine. Just remember that it is not fine for everyone and that´s the key of my post. I really truly hope that noone disagrees that "I don´t like destiny" is a better way to express an opinion than "destiny sucks".And unlike somebody wrote here, words do have power and words can change the world.
I do deal with every "turd (as you wrote)" that comes on my way, but I don´t explain myself to them, that would be defensive. I write my view and then I leave, simple as that. I do avoid negative and downright evil people and protect my soul of course. I don´t deal with them any more than I have to.
During my 25 year career, 1000 gigs, thousands of books I have read about human behaviour and all the everyday life situations in many different cultures, I have learned that underneath even the meanest person, lies another person and if you connect to that, you will get amazing results. I will never stop, what I believe is a noble cause, to make this world a better place through music and words since I believe that to be my life´s mission here. If someone needs to use offensive words against that, you are very welcome. Just remember that there are certain laws in the Universe and that everything you send out, comes back to you in your life in some form. There is no escape.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Stealth » Mon May 28, 2007 9:24 am

I have to agree with stratoplayer, Carcass and Lapazeus.
TimoTolkki wrote:Just remember that there are certain laws in the Universe and that everything you send out, comes back to you in your life in some form. There is no escape.
Do you mean scientific laws or religious laws? I'm asking out of curiosity because I've always had some trouble understanding your point of view regarding religion. Combining your lyrics and comments, I'm not sure if you are agnostic, atheist, religious, spiritual, etc.
Anyways, I disagree with the whole idea of karma. Quick example: Pinochet "sent out" lots of negative things throughout his life, and none of what he did came back to him... Hell, he even died at 91!!! He lived for 91 years in relatively good health and never got punished... Talk about karma!!
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Lapazeus » Mon May 28, 2007 9:33 am

TimoTolkki wrote:And unlike somebody wrote here, words do have power and words can change the world.
Words have tremendous power. I know that very well for the field of my academic studies is linguistics and inter-cultural communication. Words are also deceitful, they are not always what they seem to be. The most important thing is what the words are used to convey, i.e. what is the meaning. Offensive words don't always convey negative meanings and even the most eloquent speech can contain negative and evil meanings and connotations.

You are, of course, absolutely right when you say that people speak way too indifferently in the Internet (behind nicknames). Some consideration won't hurt anybody.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by TimoTolkki » Mon May 28, 2007 10:28 am

Do you mean scientific laws or religious laws?


Neither
I'm asking out of curiosity because I've always had some trouble understanding your point of view regarding religion. Combining your lyrics and comments, I'm not sure if you are agnostic, atheist, religious, spiritual, etc.


I´m none of these. Life is not stagnant, it´s fluid, ever changing. So is my path. I don´t believe in any pre written dogma regarding what I believe to be higher things. They are different with every human and are present in their everyday lives. The Universal truths are inside of us.
Anyways, I disagree with the whole idea of karma. Quick example: Pinochet "sent out" lots of negative things throughout his life, and none of what he did came back to him... Hell, he even died at 91!!! He lived for 91 years in relatively good health and never got punished... Talk about karma!!
You are free to disagree. The existence of Karma does not depend on you or me. Pinochet might have paid for his crimes in this lifetime at the end through his health problems or jail time.I don´t know.
It is possible that his soul went through a "life review", where he had to go through everything he did morally wrong and feel the pain he caused in him. You are talking about punishing. That is very common to authoritarian society and thinking. Becoming aware is better way because when you become aware truly of the pain you have caused, a human guilt and pain starts operating in you. I don´t think there is a punishment in the very sense of the word. Consequence is a better word.
I believe in Universal Intelligence that is in all things and it´s good. I don´t believe it´s perfect and omnipotent. I don´t believe it has any other values than Justice and Love. I believe it is a power that is impossible for us to comprehend, yet I believe it is very much present in everyday life of every human. Kids today feel more bad than ever, we are witnessing a slow but increasing destruction of the planet. We are entering a new era in human awarness when I believe we will see very clear signs of the existence of this force and we will surely see huge changes in societies in the next 10-30 years.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by NeonVomit » Mon May 28, 2007 4:01 pm

TimoTolkki wrote: I believe in Universal Intelligence that is in all things and it´s good. I don´t believe it´s perfect and omnipotent. I don´t believe it has any other values than Justice and Love. I believe it is a power that is impossible for us to comprehend, yet I believe it is very much present in everyday life of every human.
This is exactly why I am unwilling to accept any specific religious teaching. If something as vast and powerful as that exists, then how could man possibly comprehend it, much less give a difinitive teaching on it? We cannot even fit the sheer scale of the universe in our minds, let alone what 'runs' it. This is why I dislike anyone who claims to be able to tell me about God and Creation and all that. 'Who are you to tell me such things?' enters my mind.

We've been destroying our home for a long time now. In accordance to the laws of thermodynamics, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Our cumulated actions will have a reaction soon, and it will not be good. We've already had a taste of what can happen. We must be prepared for more.
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by TimoTolkki » Mon May 28, 2007 4:17 pm

This is exactly why I am unwilling to accept any specific religious teaching. If something as vast and powerful as that exists, then how could man possibly comprehend it, much less give a difinitive teaching on it? We cannot even fit the sheer scale of the universe in our minds, let alone what 'runs' it. This is why I dislike anyone who claims to be able to tell me about God and Creation and all that. 'Who are you to tell me such things?' enters my mind.
It is impossible to argue with conditioned minds you know. But true free person accepts other people´s beliefs as well. Too bad it seems not to work vice versa. Roman Catholic church is possible the worst in this in creating fear among people and behind the scenes cleverly manipulates the masses and at the same time is practicing considerable business activities around the world.
There are many proofs about the existence of "God". I highly recommend any book by Paul Davies, who is a scientist and is somewhere in between.
The fact is because there is something there must be something. The amazing, clocklike synchronicity of the Universe is to me the biggest proof of a higher intelligence. Just look at where we are. Then the religion enters into picture. And bang! so does fear. In Bible for example is written that you must fear and love God. This is impossible because they are mutually exclusive emotions. You cannot love anyone you fear. And for sure you cannot love anyone by order. So there must be something very wrong here. I believe there exists a healthier way to be in connection to the Source, but that it is not mandatory. We really are free to do as we choose, albeit with consequences. But there is no punitive force in the Universe.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Patricia » Mon May 28, 2007 6:20 pm

nefertari wrote:Here is the set-list of the Osaka gig at the 22th of May :

Hold On To Your Dream
The Abyss of Your Eyes
A Million Light Years Away
Will My Soul Ever Rest In Peace
Paradise
It would be great also for me to hear these songs one day! Great setlist anyway, and i'm sure that Japanese fans have enjoyed a lot the shows! Lucky you! :)
Olen tyytyväinen...Onpa kiva tavata...

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Carcass » Mon May 28, 2007 7:18 pm

TimoTolkki wrote:There are many proofs about the existence of "God". I highly recommend any book by Paul Davies, who is a scientist and is somewhere in between.
The relevance of the 'fine-tunement' of the universe can be disputed. Maybe you want to read some books on the Anthropic principle.

A quick version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_Principle

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Martine » Mon May 28, 2007 7:53 pm

It is true that non constructive criticism is a wrong way of communicating. We may think that a person who says "this song sucks" would mean "this song writer sucks" or "this singer sucks", but I don't think this is what he meant. He simply does not like this song.

But, he must understand that writing a song is like delivering a baby. I mean, you create, you have the guts to show it to people and to expose yourself to criticism and then BANG! You receive a "this song sucks".

Well, I hope the person who has spoken these words will get mentally more mature in the next few days, otherwise some authority here might ask for his resignation from this forum, if you see what I mean. I would second such request.

Love you Timo, and Timo, and Jens, and Jörg, and Lauri. And please, don't forget there are a lot of people here who are respectful and nice.
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by IceBreaker » Mon May 28, 2007 8:52 pm

TimoTolkki wrote:he very well knows that he (and many others) have used "xxxx sucks" also in other situations than "provoking friends".

Just remember that it is not fine for everyone and that´s the key of my post. I really truly hope that noone disagrees that "I don´t like destiny" is a better way to express an opinion than "destiny sucks".And unlike somebody wrote here, words do have power and words can change the world.
Definately and can state practically everyone have used those kind of strong, negative expressions in many cases. And why? Because like I wrote, mostly people just try to express themselves too quickly without giving some time for thinking what they could say in more tolerant, or even appropriate way. That is an usual problem. Like you´re stating, people must start developing themselves to raise there intelligent awareness to get avoid of using too quickly thought inconsiderate expressions. As words you are using really have the meanings and therefore power.
Martine wrote:It is true that non constructive criticism is a wrong way of communicating.

Well, I hope the person who has spoken these words will get mentally more mature in the next few days, otherwise some authority here might ask for his resignation from this forum, if you see what I mean. I would second such request.
Somehow I see your points a bit arrogant, albeit I did a typical example of using a rude expression (a problem in most forums everywhere on the net). Yes it is true non constructive criticism leads nowhere, but still everyone should try to learn how to understand also this kind of opinion based criticism, and sarcasm.
Besides, what you are saying, must appeal to everyone who is using intolerant, strong words on their messages on this forum too. A challenging aim as there is too much rubbish on this forum, like Timo has many times mentioned.
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by IceBreaker » Mon May 28, 2007 9:24 pm

TimoTolkki wrote: I do deal with every "turd (as you wrote)" that comes on my way, but I don´t explain myself to them, that would be defensive. I write my view and then I leave, simple as that. I do avoid negative and downright evil people and protect my soul of course. I don´t deal with them any more than I have to.

I have learned that underneath even the meanest person, lies another person and if you connect to that, you will get amazing results. I will never stop, what I believe is a noble cause, to make this world a better place through music and words since I believe that to be my life´s mission here.
Have to point some things out what you wrote about how you deal with people behaving negative. You said you just give their to your opinions and maybe notice some points which are wrong but leave them then. Still you though state if you are able to connect within a mean person, you´re able to get amazing results and give them some positivity. As it is your mission to spread positive energy to the world with everything you do. I mean you have always opportunities to get along serious conversations also with that kind of negative orientated people, where you may be able to "connect their thoughts" and to bring some light and awareness to their narrow minds, and in the end some good results can occur.

Sorry my English on this post, my skills aren´t better to describe what I am willing to say. But I hope you are getting at least some of my point.
"I shall seize Fate by the throat; it shall certainly not bend and crush me completely"

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by exe knight » Mon May 28, 2007 11:14 pm

As a side point, I'd say that I like Destinyt more than Visions atleast, but they are both awesome songs, more something not my style is song Father time...or I quess it's just that I can't sing it, it's harder than the Soad songs that I remember words to (cigaro, chic'n stu...)

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by TimoTolkki » Mon May 28, 2007 11:19 pm

Still you though state if you are able to connect within a mean person, you´re able to get amazing results and give them some positivity. As it is your mission to spread positive energy to the world with everything you do. I mean you have always opportunities to get along serious conversations also with that kind of negative orientated people, where you may be able to "connect their thoughts" and to bring some light and awareness to their narrow minds, and in the end some good results can occur.
Yes, but it is very rare that I do this because you hurt yourself in it sometimes. I prefer to do it through music and writing. I´m just bored now so and cant sleep so I am hanging out here for a while.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by IceBreaker » Tue May 29, 2007 12:25 am

TimoTolkki wrote:I´m just bored now so and cant sleep so I am hanging out here for a while.
You do also this for free will. In my opinion even this all you have now pointed here out, is for a good cause. Bringing some positivity and freshness via your thoughts to this community. As you know how much negative energy this forum is having, and has had earlier.
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Martine » Tue May 29, 2007 12:56 am

Well, I think that in any case, the messages stated above were clear. Let's hope that this little chat has given everyone an idea of how to be careful of what we say and how we speak to each other (and I am certainly including myself, I am in no way "arrogant") And, just to make my point, I might say that today, here in Montreal, temperature really sucks! :D

No offence. Ciao!

Love you all!
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Jaakko » Tue May 29, 2007 1:08 am

People, people, chill, chill. Language is a symbolic form of communication, the meaning of each word and expression is unique for each person. There isn't any universal rule about how the expression "... sucks" can and only should be used. People collectively change the everyday language constantly, and unfortunately this quite dull and meaningless expression has gained popularity and lost all its strenght, just like the F-word. Fuck this, fuck that, very few people bother to get offended anymore. It wasn't always so.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Martine » Tue May 29, 2007 1:47 am

Jaakko wrote:just like the F-word. Fuck this, fuck that, very few people bother to get offended anymore. It wasn't always so.
Well, I have to disagree with you (I always have to disagree with someone, it is in my nature :oops: ). If you ever tell me "F-you", I shall be greatly offended.

I don't know about you Europeans, but North Americans (from US and English Canadians) are still offended by this word and we still take it very badly as it is still considered as the most vulgar word.

So, if I ever meet you on the street in Finland (my dream... I mean to be in Finland, not to meet you :twisted: ), and you tell me F-you, I shall respond immediately and, unfortunately for you, you shall get a painful black eye. :D
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Lord_ZX » Tue May 29, 2007 3:28 am

Stealth wrote:I have to agree with stratoplayer, Carcass and Lapazeus.
TimoTolkki wrote:Just remember that there are certain laws in the Universe and that everything you send out, comes back to you in your life in some form. There is no escape.
Do you mean scientific laws or religious laws? I'm asking out of curiosity because I've always had some trouble understanding your point of view regarding religion. Combining your lyrics and comments, I'm not sure if you are agnostic, atheist, religious, spiritual, etc.
Anyways, I disagree with the whole idea of karma. Quick example: Pinochet "sent out" lots of negative things throughout his life, and none of what he did came back to him... Hell, he even died at 91!!! He lived for 91 years in relatively good health and never got punished... Talk about karma!!
Im from Chile... please dont talk about things you have no idea about... A lots of chileans respect him... was a good person, good gobernement and a lot of bad things are lies of publicity... In Chile we lived a conflict very similar to civil war... I dont speak about european politics problems cause a simple reason... I dont live it... Peace and Love!
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sometimes I´ll lose It´s just a game that I play

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Jaakko » Tue May 29, 2007 3:37 am

Martine wrote:Well, I have to disagree with you (I always have to disagree with someone, it is in my nature :oops: ). If you ever tell me "F-you", I shall be greatly offended.

I don't know about you Europeans, but North Americans (from US and English Canadians) are still offended by this word and we still take it very badly as it is still considered as the most vulgar word.

So, if I ever meet you on the street in Finland (my dream... I mean to be in Finland, not to meet you :twisted: ), and you tell me F-you, I shall respond immediately and, unfortunately for you, you shall get a painful black eye. :D
Of course, direct insults... Would you be any less offended if I called you a "block of wood" if my words indeed were directed at you or any of your personal traits? Or "fly to the moon" to say I'd like you to "fuck off". Is it the word or the meaning that matters? Saying "fuck you" for me seems just lazy, tells more about the person telling it than the one it's told to, I mean, how unoriginal! :lol:

Live and let live, fuck and let suck. Timo is acting on a good cause but I'm not quite sure if I believe that changing the world is any better than trying to live with (and in) it. It may seem lazy and ignorant to take the easy path (take it easy, what a meaningful expression!), but it could be one form of enlightenment as well, using the settling and nonviolent guideline instead of "arguing with conditioned minds".

Trying to get serious on an internet forum is like having sex over the phone. It was never designed to work, otherwise phone would've been involved in the evolution since two million years.

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by Martine » Tue May 29, 2007 4:01 am

Jaakko wrote: Trying to get serious on an internet forum is like having sex over the phone. It was never designed to work, otherwise phone would've been involved in the evolution since two million years.
Is this what they call "Evolution"? I shall remain retarded then. I shall keep my own communication guidelines and speak with people who believe in respect and remember the meaning of the words.

No offense.:shock:

P.S. Getting bored about this topic. This will be my last comment here. Let's talk about something else. By the way, weren't we here because of the Strato show in Japan? What happened to this topic? We lost ourselves, once again. :D
Martine, The Truly French Canadian
Martine, Une vraie canadienne française
http://www.myspace.com/martine42

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NeonVomit
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by NeonVomit » Tue May 29, 2007 11:49 am

IceBreaker wrote:
TimoTolkki wrote:I´m just bored now so and cant sleep so I am hanging out here for a while.
You do also this for free will. In my opinion even this all you have now pointed here out, is for a good cause. Bringing some positivity and freshness via your thoughts to this community. As you know how much negative energy this forum is having, and has had earlier.
And to think, this is one of the most peaceful and chilled-out forums I frequent on the net! (well, except for maybe the Winter's Verge forum :lol: )
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."

http://www.wintersverge.com


I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by TimoTolkki » Tue May 29, 2007 12:03 pm

Trying to get serious on an internet forum is like having sex over the phone. It was never designed to work, otherwise phone would've been involved in the evolution since two million years.
It works very well on my Hymn to Life forum. I´m still saying that respectfulness, tolerance, love, logic, humour should be the guidelines for us.
They are not easy to achieve, the animal in us is constantly trying to take over, but the evolution of mankind on a spiritual level has a direction as does the evolution itself. In Universe there are starsystems that are billions of years older than ours and the evolution they might have achieved can be just amazing. We are still in a very primitive stages in our evolution and it seems it´s gonna remain very brief too for lots of people will die in the next 100 years to the results of Global weather change and its consequences.
Ironically, I am writing this from Kyoto and in here they have been trying to establish a Kyoto Protocol, that most countries have ratified, even China.
USA hasn´t and is responsible for 45% of the greenhouse emissions of the world. This is the essence of the whole case. We are not ready to slow down, not even when the destruction of the whole ecosystem of our planet is happening at a rapid pace.

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NeonVomit
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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by NeonVomit » Tue May 29, 2007 12:46 pm

TimoTolkki wrote: We are still in a very primitive stages in our evolution
Timo, have you heard about that theory which states that mankind will never make contact with another alien race, because every race in the universe destroys itself before it has developed the ability for interstellar travel? It's wildly hypothetical at best, but it's an interesting point.
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."

http://www.wintersverge.com


I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!

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Re: Stratovarius in Japan

Post by TimoTolkki » Tue May 29, 2007 1:09 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
TimoTolkki wrote: We are still in a very primitive stages in our evolution
Timo, have you heard about that theory which states that mankind will never make contact with another alien race, because every race in the universe destroys itself before it has developed the ability for interstellar travel? It's wildly hypothetical at best, but it's an interesting point.
Well, the biggest proof that there is life outside our galaxy is that we haven´t
seen any. Because those cultutures are so far ahead of us what comes to tolerance, violence and respect. They would end up in a zoo or would be exploited in some way. Highly evolved cultures dont have violence, dont need weapons and borders to protect eachother from eachother because they have understood the concept that we are all from the same source and thus we are all one. Now we are divided in this hopeless chaotic mess, which might be part of the evolution, but before it´s too late, I think we will still have the chance to reverse our attitudes. And most likely on our knees.

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