Breakup: Where is the truth?

Here you can talk about Stratovarius and related bands. Language used is English.

Whose story is most trustworthy?

Tolkki 0%, other guys 100%
19
38%
Tolkki 10%, other guys 90%
12
24%
Tolkki 30%, other guys 70%
11
22%
Tolkki 70%, other guys 30%
6
12%
Tolkki 90%, other guys 10%
2
4%
 
Total votes: 50

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by Plisken » Mon May 12, 2008 7:08 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:
Plisken wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote::roll: Its NOT bias. Its a Poll. People can be honest&anonymous answering polls. Its not rigged. :roll:
it is! look at the options given why is there Tolkki 0%, other guys 100% and no Tolkki 100%, other guys 0%?

Also why is there no Tolkki 50%, other guys 50%? Your ether 100% with the other guys or 90% with Tolkki. The other options are not needed.... I would have gone 50/50 but is it there? no because its bias =/
:eyes: The point I am making is that in a Poll nobody HAS to vote. If none of the choices fit what a person feels/thinks, they will not vote. If you notice, actually, not many people have voted! :)
Just because a poll is not going the way you want it does not mean its not true. Sorry.

Actually I was wondering why the 50-50 option was left out because in my opinion thats how many fans feel. ??? But 70-30 either way is pretty close,too, I guess.

ah I guess your right...

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by Lurdi » Tue May 13, 2008 4:42 pm

My opinion is 50/50 There are always two sides of a story.I am sure there are so many things we don´t know and of course, we will never know them.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by valo_666 » Tue May 13, 2008 8:42 pm

StratoHeart wrote:I heard both Elements only once, and I don't feel like I want to hear them again
you should give it one more try man

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by Eagle+ » Thu May 15, 2008 9:38 am

Meh, this is a mess... but I think 4 > 1
Eagle+ out.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by boswoth » Thu May 15, 2008 10:29 am

Eagle+ wrote:Meh, this is a mess... but I think 4 > 1
Yeah and the other four have never been diagnosed with anything! So they're normal musicias and they drink and ger blowjobs, but they have not been in psych ward of hospital or taking lithium.

Signing things he shouldn't that cause problems for people around him it's THEE classic thing what a manic person could do.

Mania and narcissism, when they write the statement even mention narcissism a lot. it's everything Tolkki seems to be and it's an actual disease as well.

Narcissism disorder is defined as: Lack of empathy, grandiosity, need for admiration. Tolkki has shown all these even to us in the forum the last days. It is all very accurate.
1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement
6. is interpersonally exploitative
7. lacks empathy
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
You need only five of those to be DIAGNOSED. Tolkki really to have all nine. And thats just judging from statements and internet postings.

With what the guys were writing about the business things certainly point 6 and 7 apply very much to him. He was broke last year and signed a paper breaking up stratovarius and putting everyone in debt, that was that. Like killing an ant.

I have said it before, but think what they wrote is 100% true. He just made up this feeling of when the they hated him becasue he already had the knife pointed at their back.... he couldnt stick it in unless he convinced himself he they hated him anyway so why not.

You'd hate to be in a business relation ship with such a guy.. nothing he says can be trusted. One day stratovarius can use the name, next day they can not use the name. One day they go in debt to go after their label, next day he sells their demo to someone else ...

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by D.Murray » Thu May 15, 2008 10:43 am

i think that it's all about money and what we are reading from Tolkki or other memmbers, that's at least 50% of lies from both sides...

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by stratohawk » Thu May 15, 2008 10:57 am

D.Murray wrote:what we are reading from Tolkki or other memmbers, that's at least 50% of lies from both sides...
I think I agree with that. I cannot imagine that there's one side speaking the "absolute truth". And in some way, there is no such absolute truth to find. It's all about opinions and interpretations. Two sides struggling and fighting, of course they are claiming the "truth" for themselves.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by boswoth » Thu May 15, 2008 11:52 am

D.Murray wrote:i think that it's all about money and what we are reading from Tolkki or other memmbers, that's at least 50% of lies from both sides...
50% each it is normally ok to guess in a fight. But its not in this case. It's four gus sayin the same thing. Then its 50/50 against Michael. 25/75 against Michael and jens. 12.5/87.5 agaist Michael Jens and Kotipelto. 6.25/ 93.75 against Michel Jens Lauri and Kotipelto. :lol:

hey really it's everything together, Tolkki is a big hypocrite. He says "he's not doing it for money, hes giving it away to chaity and stuff." There is no proof of any charity. there is no proof of any huge internet sales for Saana. 130,000 dolares or what it was.

All these and many of his blog posts are lies to make Tolkki look better, its exactly as they say, narcisstic acts.

Strato guys then make thir statement, the reason he quit and starte RR was about more money for him, so he would not have to share. He used the demo from stratovarius, he took the money for RR for himself, even if it meant the other guys coming into a bad debt.

It means tolkki is only about money. Having this told openly hurts the image he builds up of himself, so he has to make immediate answer and 10 new blogs abpout this. The truth hurts him the most. He betrayed them but no way he is facing up to that, he would look like the asshole he is and he only cares what appears to be.

I am normal very skeptical guy. But Tolkki is constantly lying everywhere. Even if he claims now to be 100% cured and health from this bi-polar manic thing, the lying is going on NOW. still.

It's lying about the Saana master stolen , he lies straight into the face of the press, gets caught completely, still just keeps lying about it.

He leaks some Saana song on the internet, again get caught, really stupid thing. His brother helped him put them there and there were metadata which revealsed it was him.

He also's posting as (false name) Jari Jokinen on imperiumi forum and gonna sue people who critizise him, gets caugth 100%, still just denies it (lies about it).

Why would he tell the truth now, if he is narcisist. Why would he admit that he did something horrible. He never has, he just denies it hoping that people will say like you guys, "well maybe there is 50 50 lies".

In the case of this Jari Jokinen thing for instance there is completely sure it's 100 lies and zero truth from him. He still just denies it.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by D.Murray » Thu May 15, 2008 2:13 pm

boswoth wrote:
D.Murray wrote:i think that it's all about money and what we are reading from Tolkki or other memmbers, that's at least 50% of lies from both sides...
50% each it is normally ok to guess in a fight. But its not in this case. It's four gus sayin the same thing. Then its 50/50 against Michael. 25/75 against Michael and jens. 12.5/87.5 agaist Michael Jens and Kotipelto. 6.25/ 93.75 against Michel Jens Lauri and Kotipelto. :lol:

hey really it's everything together, Tolkki is a big hypocrite. He says "he's not doing it for money, hes giving it away to chaity and stuff." There is no proof of any charity. there is no proof of any huge internet sales for Saana. 130,000 dolares or what it was.

All these and many of his blog posts are lies to make Tolkki look better, its exactly as they say, narcisstic acts.

Strato guys then make thir statement, the reason he quit and starte RR was about more money for him, so he would not have to share. He used the demo from stratovarius, he took the money for RR for himself, even if it meant the other guys coming into a bad debt.

It means tolkki is only about money. Having this told openly hurts the image he builds up of himself, so he has to make immediate answer and 10 new blogs abpout this. The truth hurts him the most. He betrayed them but no way he is facing up to that, he would look like the asshole he is and he only cares what appears to be.

I am normal very skeptical guy. But Tolkki is constantly lying everywhere. Even if he claims now to be 100% cured and health from this bi-polar manic thing, the lying is going on NOW. still.

It's lying about the Saana master stolen , he lies straight into the face of the press, gets caught completely, still just keeps lying about it.

He leaks some Saana song on the internet, again get caught, really stupid thing. His brother helped him put them there and there were metadata which revealsed it was him.

He also's posting as (false name) Jari Jokinen on imperiumi forum and gonna sue people who critizise him, gets caugth 100%, still just denies it (lies about it).

Why would he tell the truth now, if he is narcisist. Why would he admit that he did something horrible. He never has, he just denies it hoping that people will say like you guys, "well maybe there is 50 50 lies".

In the case of this Jari Jokinen thing for instance there is completely sure it's 100 lies and zero truth from him. He still just denies it.
I start thinking you are Kotipelto or Michael or who... :lol:

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by IceBreaker » Thu May 15, 2008 3:37 pm

D.Murray wrote:I start thinking you are Kotipelto or Michael or who... :lol:
Haha, there are good percentages boswoth = Kotipelto :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
"I shall seize Fate by the throat; it shall certainly not bend and crush me completely"

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu May 15, 2008 3:42 pm

Boswoth, you seem very credible but a portion of this forum is not going to believe you simply because your post is about Tolkki, a musician that they blindly "idolize."
In case you have not noticed, people&banshees have a way of shooting the messenger on this forum.

And, get real. Boswoth is none of the other bandmembers. :?
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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by IceBreaker » Thu May 15, 2008 3:57 pm

Where is BEG´s sense of humour. Lacking dramatically? :shock:
"I shall seize Fate by the throat; it shall certainly not bend and crush me completely"

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu May 15, 2008 4:47 pm

There is no humor to be found in this, not when it adversely affects the lives of 5 people, even temporarily.

"You can always tell where the power lies,
Just notice who people cannot criticize."
"Your life is yours, and yours alone. Rise up and live it!"

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by boswoth » Thu May 15, 2008 6:30 pm

D.Murray wrote:I start thinking you are Kotipelto or Michael or who... :lol:
:lol:

No I am Staffan Stralhman! :lol: FUCK YOU TOLKKI WHY DID YOU FIRE ME :lol:

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by Plisken » Thu May 15, 2008 7:03 pm

boswoth wrote:
D.Murray wrote:I start thinking you are Kotipelto or Michael or who... :lol:
:lol:

No I am Staffan Stralhman! :lol: FUCK YOU TOLKKI WHY DID YOU FIRE ME :lol:
woah! what!? I thought you left cuz you didnt want to play with them anymore. You got fired?

wait a second how did Timo fire you if he wasn't even in the band? He was the guy they got to replace you cuz you left.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by Stratowarius » Thu May 15, 2008 7:07 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: And WHO are you DMurray? Mr Tolkkis brother-in law??? :lol: :lol:

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by boswoth » Thu May 15, 2008 7:07 pm

Plisken wrote:
boswoth wrote:
D.Murray wrote:I start thinking you are Kotipelto or Michael or who... :lol:
:lol:

No I am Staffan Stralhman! :lol: FUCK YOU TOLKKI WHY DID YOU FIRE ME :lol:
woah! what!? I thought you left cuz you didnt want to play with them anymore. You got fired?
It was a joke!

I'm actually Jari Kainulainen! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by Plisken » Thu May 15, 2008 7:08 pm

boswoth wrote:
Plisken wrote:
boswoth wrote:
D.Murray wrote:I start thinking you are Kotipelto or Michael or who... :lol:
:lol:

No I am Staffan Stralhman! :lol: FUCK YOU TOLKKI WHY DID YOU FIRE ME :lol:
woah! what!? I thought you left cuz you didnt want to play with them anymore. You got fired?
It was a joke!

I'm actually Jari Kainulainen! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-.- not cool.....

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by boswoth » Thu May 15, 2008 7:09 pm

Plisken wrote: -.- not cool.....
where is your sense of humor man :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by StragOvariuS » Thu May 15, 2008 7:18 pm

There's no sense of humor. this is a SERIOUS forum!
Churrasqueiro Reinassance!!!

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by black death » Thu May 15, 2008 7:35 pm

StragOvariuS wrote:this is a SERIOUS forum!
Are you sure? :D

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by stratohawk » Thu May 15, 2008 7:43 pm

StragOvariuS wrote:There's no sense of humor. this is a SERIOUS forum!
Of course, it always has been! 8)

But boswoth, I think you're taking this all too serious, and you are a bit too sure with your statements against TT. I don't defend him, but neither do I believe the statement of the other 4 members per se. This is all posted in the internet, nobody knows who authored that stuff. I still didn't read any interview or something with the remaining members.
Maybe it's all a big conspiracy... :lol: A big publicity joke!

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu May 15, 2008 7:50 pm

:roll:
Denial is not helping matters.

I guess TT did not write those statements HE made, either, right? Its all just a dream? :roll:
Pinch yourself, stratohawk, all this is real! :)
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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by IceBreaker » Thu May 15, 2008 9:15 pm

StragOvariuS wrote:There's no sense of humor. this is a SERIOUS forum!
The best quote of the day! :lol: :lol: :lol: :funhi:
"I shall seize Fate by the throat; it shall certainly not bend and crush me completely"

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by Rebel » Thu May 15, 2008 9:16 pm

boswoth wrote:
Plisken wrote: -.- not cool.....
where is your sense of humor man :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's dead Tuomo, You killed it Mr. Lasilla.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by stratohawk » Fri May 16, 2008 12:03 am

browneyedgirl wrote::roll:
Denial is not helping matters.
I'm not denying anything.
I guess TT did not write those statements HE made, either, right? Its all just a dream? :roll:
I didn't say that. And even if the 4 Stratoguys are telling the absolute truth, I won't follow the abusive style of some members/trolls in this forum against TT. This is just a bad and childish spectacle, sad enough that all the 5 of them are fighting it in the publicity of the internet instead of talking to each other. It has nothing to do with our personal lives (well, depending on how important Strato's music is/was to oneself of course, fortunately it doesn't touch me like maybe 6 or 7 years ago :-)), so I don't take it personally but try to watch it from a neutral position. You guys should try the same. ;-)
Pinch yourself, stratohawk, all this is real! :)
Real? "Reality" is relative.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by Eagle+ » Fri May 16, 2008 3:35 am

You know what the real problem is and why I think the "remaining Stratovarius" is actually on the right side on this one?

You want to call it a day? Fine.
You want to start your own project? Fine.
You hate Kotipelto's music? Fine.
You're pursuing money? Fine - it's a business in the end.
You'd like to announce it to your fanbase? Great! But you don't need to place details about it.

Stuff like "Kotipelto and Jörg didn't bother in replying the e-mail I sent" blah blah blah, is just trying to save your ass before you get called in a lie.

The real problem is that this matter should have been resolved internally, we don't need to know what it is that made Tolkki wrap up Stratovarius.

All the amazing shit he described COULD have happened but as a professional musician and public person, you can't get into drama fights -over the internet to top it off- and you don't need to publicly expose the alleged actions the remaining 4 members had.

A simple "It's been a great ride, but it's time to move on - Stratovarius will always love you but it's time to take our own route" would have been great and nothing like this would be happening.

Also; I saw them live twice. I never got the impression they were not "having fun" or were "just doing it for the money". You can't fake emotion and I can say that Kotipelto, Jörg, Johansson, Lauri Porra and even Jari were having a great time.

I respect and admire Tolkki for his musicianship - not at all on his public relations really.
Eagle+ out.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by stratohawk » Fri May 16, 2008 9:30 am

Eagle+ wrote: Stuff like "Kotipelto and Jörg didn't bother in replying the e-mail I sent" blah blah blah, is just trying to save your ass before you get called in a lie.

The real problem is that this matter should have been resolved internally, we don't need to know what it is that made Tolkki wrap up Stratovarius.
Yes, you are absolutely right. This should have stayed an internal problem. But it shows that they haven't learned anything from the MissK-desaster. Sad enough. I mean the statement released by the 4 others is not a bit better. Yes, I know, they somekind had to defend theirselves. But they also could have written "What TT wrote is not true, we do want to continue, but we won't descend to the same level like him and accuse him here in public." Instead, they are releasing a statement on the official Stratovarius homepage, signed over with the headline "Tolkki's main motivation was greed". This was just heating up everything.
At least we now know that something isn't right. But honestly, this ridiculous quarrel was not necessary for us to understand that, was it?
All the amazing shit he described COULD have happened but as a professional musician and public person, you can't get into drama fights -over the internet to top it off- and you don't need to publicly expose the alleged actions the remaining 4 members had.

A simple "It's been a great ride, but it's time to move on - Stratovarius will always love you but it's time to take our own route" would have been great and nothing like this would be happening.
I'm wondering about that, too. But imagine what would have been in this case, if TT had released a statement like that? The reaction by the others could have been the same, like "we don't understand why he is dissolving the band, we wanted to continue but TT's ego or whatever didn't want us anymore", blablabla. See my point?
The main problem is that the guys were/are not able to talk to each other. This was obviously 4 years ago, during (I mentioned it ;-)) the MissK-desaster. They are again carrying their absurd conflict into public...
Also; I saw them live twice. I never got the impression they were not "having fun" or were "just doing it for the money". You can't fake emotion and I can say that Kotipelto, Jörg, Johansson, Lauri Porra and even Jari were having a great time.
Ahm, well... I saw them I think 6 times... Well most of those gigs they really seemed to have a great time. But honestly, most of the action and contact to the spectators came from Kotipelto. The rest of the band was simply playing its stuff (of course playing it very good), and except Kotipelto and Jens, who sometimes fooled around, I got no emotions from the others. They definitely were a good live band, but this "having fun" together was not as obviously as from other bands that I saw live. I'm not stating anything with this, I simply want to say that from what we saw live we cannot really judge what was going on behind the scenes.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by exe knight » Fri May 16, 2008 9:45 am

Eagle+ wrote: You can't fake emotion .
Have you ever seen a sad/frustrated/whateveremotion(except happy), worker in a store?

It's not so hard to hide your emotions behind a smile, especially if you have to.

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Re: Breakup: Where is the truth?

Post by Leboff » Fri May 16, 2008 12:42 pm

By the way, have you noticed that Tolkki's links have been removed from stratovarius.com? I mean the links section on the left.

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