Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Here you can talk about Stratovarius and related bands. Language used is English.
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skywalker203
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Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by skywalker203 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:17 am

I have one question. Tolkki signed with his waiver document. So first I think He has no rights to use the name 'Stratovarius'. But Tollkki said in this forum that " I do not agree the possible continuation under the name Stratovarius firstly because I think it is morally wrong and secondly, because I don't think it would be Stratovarius."

Can he say like this? It seems that Tolkki has the rights of continuous using 'Stratovarius'. If it is right, TK, JJ, JM, LP can't use 'Stratovarius' for the band name. Is it true? or Tolkki tells a lie? If both is not, Do I think something wrong?

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by browneyedgirl » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:22 am

Tolkki is a "sacred cow", so we will just have to wait&see what happens. Time will reveal all things.
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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by KilledByDETH » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:43 am

you should just ask tolkki directy, im sure he'll answer you, but im sure ive heard the answer already.

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by R.F. » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:44 am

As Tolkki said on RR forum "there are ways to do this and you don't know all what has been going on behind the scenes". So, from our point of view it looks like he plays some dirty game, so he should not complain on the amount of hatred pulled on him, `cause it is his fault :( But anyway only time will reveal everything.

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by *Deni* » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:52 pm

That's right... only time will reveal everything, because even the remaining Strato-members aren't sure if they will continue under the name "Stratovarius", even if Tolkki signed the waiver document. And Tolkki isn't happy with that, so we only have to wait...

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by browneyedgirl » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:59 pm

*Deni* wrote:That's right... only time will reveal everything, because even the remaining Strato-members aren't sure if they will continue under the name "Stratovarius", even if Tolkki signed the waiver document. And Tolkki isn't happy with that, so we only have to wait...
Well, BOO-HOO. :~( What can TT do? Pull one of his famous tantrums&all the blindfollowing fans rush to his defense? ??? One day that ploy won't work, and that day is coming sooner than he thinks. Good luck, TT, in time you'll need it, because excuses won't work anymore. :(
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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by scorp » Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:38 am

Don't you think that this thing has gone too far? First we had the split simply as TT had put it, then we heard the other side from the rest of the Strato-guys, then the flaming and the accusations started till TT gave the rights of Strato to the remaining members and then we learned that Stratovarius will have another album with the (very) old lineup by the one who was supposed that wanted to leave everything behind. And that's not all... There are legal debts, legal fights between ex-friends, changes of the record labels by TT/RR and so on...

You know, as I'm coming back from job, I'm listening to Stratovarius albums. And I remember "those days" when I was listening to them when they were supposed to be friends, a true band. I remember as I listen how much I was expecting their next album, how I was interested in their lyrics (written by all of them). Sometimes they've helped me overcome some bad moments. I guess I'm not the only one who feels this way. And now, we've got all this shit happening. Thinking of how things were in the past and how they're now, I just don't wanna know who's right and who's wrong, at least this specific moment. Of course Strato is a famous band and it's interesting to know what has happened with them after all. Sometimes speculating (but not taking sides or accusing as if I'd know the truth) is what comes after interest for something that you wanna know, when you wanna know what happened, you wanna find out who's right or wrong (yeah right, as if there's only one "truth", but anyway).

But after all that has happened... It is too much, it is sad, it gets boring after a specific moment. I'm still interested to know what's going to happen but I'm not interested to know what's right and what's wrong in this case... After all, no matter how important Stratovarius are, they're a metal band. I might feel that I know them in person (as many fans would feel so I guess) but there are other much more important stuff in life. Regarding music and its influence it is one of the most important stuff but in life in general, there are other priorities.

Anyway, this post isn't getting anywhere. I just had in my mind many things which I was thinking for quite a long time and just felt like expressing them. Maybe it's the wrong topic. If so, I apologize (but there are so many similar topics in the forum now...) Well, and my thoughts might be contradicting one another but I just wanted to put things the way they came to my mind. I don't have enough energy at the moment (after 12 hours of working) to analyze my thoughts and reach to certain conclusions (which could be done by analyzing contradicting statements). I'm sorry for the big post.

In a few lines, Strato is great and played a very important role for me, (but there are other more important stuff in my life of course). After all it's a metal band and when things are getting too mixed as they have (if everything's real of course), it's sad. So I just hope the two sides will end up with an agreement that would cease all the humiliation that occurs in the name of Stratovarius and let us enjoy their future reunited or in different paths.

May the Force be with them all. :)
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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:40 am

tolkki had the rights to the name owned the contracts of the band so it was rediculous for him to give the rest of the guys anything. this is all just another story of legal and crontractual stupididy. from teh whole beginning of the santuatry contracts with stupid stipulations to writing songs that werent made in a natural songwriting environent to the trubbles of now.

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:26 am

"Your life is yours, and yours alone. Rise up and live it!"

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:49 am

Finland copyright Laws
id want to see what the hell kinds of contracts these guys signed before looking at the finland contract system lol. i really don;t know what was singed and the stipulations withing the band were but from what ive seen it looked like tolkki owned the name and hired the rest of the guys so when he fired everyone i was thinking that thats simply all thats needed. in the rest of the guys statements they even said they could not use the name untill tolkki gave them the rights. i think it would just be interesting to see what their deal with the record company as a case study for screwing up.

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by skywalker203 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:06 am

scorp wrote:Don't you think that this thing has gone too far? First we had the split simply as TT had put it, then we heard the other side from the rest of the Strato-guys, then the flaming and the accusations started till TT gave the rights of Strato to the remaining members and then we learned that Stratovarius will have another album with the (very) old lineup by the one who was supposed that wanted to leave everything behind. And that's not all... There are legal debts, legal fights between ex-friends, changes of the record labels by TT/RR and so on...

You know, as I'm coming back from job, I'm listening to Stratovarius albums. And I remember "those days" when I was listening to them when they were supposed to be friends, a true band. I remember as I listen how much I was expecting their next album, how I was interested in their lyrics (written by all of them). Sometimes they've helped me overcome some bad moments. I guess I'm not the only one who feels this way. And now, we've got all this shit happening. Thinking of how things were in the past and how they're now, I just don't wanna know who's right and who's wrong, at least this specific moment. Of course Strato is a famous band and it's interesting to know what has happened with them after all. Sometimes speculating (but not taking sides or accusing as if I'd know the truth) is what comes after interest for something that you wanna know, when you wanna know what happened, you wanna find out who's right or wrong (yeah right, as if there's only one "truth", but anyway).

But after all that has happened... It is too much, it is sad, it gets boring after a specific moment. I'm still interested to know what's going to happen but I'm not interested to know what's right and what's wrong in this case... After all, no matter how important Stratovarius are, they're a metal band. I might feel that I know them in person (as many fans would feel so I guess) but there are other much more important stuff in life. Regarding music and its influence it is one of the most important stuff but in life in general, there are other priorities.

Anyway, this post isn't getting anywhere. I just had in my mind many things which I was thinking for quite a long time and just felt like expressing them. Maybe it's the wrong topic. If so, I apologize (but there are so many similar topics in the forum now...) Well, and my thoughts might be contradicting one another but I just wanted to put things the way they came to my mind. I don't have enough energy at the moment (after 12 hours of working) to analyze my thoughts and reach to certain conclusions (which could be done by analyzing contradicting statements). I'm sorry for the big post.

In a few lines, Strato is great and played a very important role for me, (but there are other more important stuff in my life of course). After all it's a metal band and when things are getting too mixed as they have (if everything's real of course), it's sad. So I just hope the two sides will end up with an agreement that would cease all the humiliation that occurs in the name of Stratovarius and let us enjoy their future reunited or in different paths.

May the Force be with them all. :)

Yes, I'm fully agree with you. Only important things are that they are musician and great power metal band. Even its name is Stratovarius or not.

But, unavoidably, I have felt a sense of betrayal to tolkki, who was a greatest music hero in my life (like you) and wonderful musical leader of Stratovarius. Also he made me listen heavy metal music first by the song 'Forever'. Yes, maybe I feel more serious anger to him because he was my HERO.

Perhaps your opinion is perfect answer for me, and all stratovarius fans who think and guess like me. But the other side, It is true that people want to know the 'TRUTH' about our heroes. And like TK and other friends said, All stratovarius fans have the right to know the truth.

Ok. So everything is in veil now. And like many guys in this forum said, My conclusion is this : Time will be the best answer. I think this is all that i can do.

May the force be with you. :)

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:29 am

May the force be with you.

and may they dont lose their mojo

this will give us music with inspiration and style that we would not have had otherwise. with tolkiis new band and new found energy, tolkkis project with the origional drum and keys, and a johansson kotipelto writen band.

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by hiro23 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:13 am

I guess we will just to see what conclusion the band comes up with, until then I won't speculate. I have faith both parties will reach a decision
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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by scorp » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:48 am

icecab21 wrote:tolkki had the rights to the name owned the contracts of the band so it was rediculous for him to give the rest of the guys anything. this is all just another story of legal and crontractual stupididy. from teh whole beginning of the santuatry contracts with stupid stipulations to writing songs that werent made in a natural songwriting environent to the trubbles of now.
For sure the Force was not with them when they decided to sign that contract with Sanctuary*. Strange is the will of the Force. :roll:

*Ουκ εν τω πολλώ το ευ αλλά εν τω ευ το πολύ. Which means that happiness/well being is not found in big things/much money but many big values/things are found in well being/happiness
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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:54 am

I like the Indiana Jones thing with the ancient language where treasure means knowledge. i love all these south amercans culture and history movies that are coming out.

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by scorp » Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:05 pm

It helps you see things from different angle. But still not everyone shares this point of view and those who translate treasures to money and power not always have the fate of Dr. Irina Spalko (fortunately or unfortunately)...

Indy IV btw, kicks ass 8)

EDIT: Maybe all they have to do is sit down all together and watch the Star Wars and Indiana Jones? :)
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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by JensJohansson » Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:40 pm

skywalker203 wrote:I have one question. Tolkki signed with his waiver document. So first I think He has no rights to use the name 'Stratovarius'. But Tollkki said in this forum that " I do not agree the possible continuation under the name Stratovarius firstly because I think it is morally wrong and secondly, because I don't think it would be Stratovarius."

Can he say like this? It seems that Tolkki has the rights of continuous using 'Stratovarius'. If it is right, TK, JJ, JM, LP can't use 'Stratovarius' for the band name. Is it true? or Tolkki tells a lie? If both is not, Do I think something wrong?
Yes it doesn't make sense in a way because the two logically contradict each other.

There is no law that says people have to make sense all the time. :) And any person can of course say anything they want, it's as easy as having an internet connection and starting to type...

This is not as huge an issue as TT is wanting it to be in a way. Legally the assignment is binding, there was another thread here about it with a few more details:

http://www.stratovarius.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8664

The name carries with it financial debt, and also some other obligations toward the fans. Having clear control of it makes it easies to make rational decisions regarding both those points.

Other than that, we'll have some news for you when there is some news :)

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:00 pm

Its kinda like a Divorce, isn't it? ???
If a party puts a settlement in writing, and its signed&goes through the required legal processes, its final.

However, verbal agreements are not worth the paper they aren't written on. Never ever do that! Thats why in the legal arena if anyone wants something to "bind", it better be signed!
~been there, done that, both scenarios~ ;)
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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by Keyssion » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:00 pm

JensJohansson wrote:
Other than that, we'll have some news for you when there is some news :)
Oh is that so? :D

I've been wondering the fuss about the Stratovarius "get together"-album that Tolkki is going to do with Tuomo Lassila and Antti Ikonen. Can that be labeled Stratovarius now? I missed the whole thing about that album.

Anyway, I think it's still a nice idea.

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by eagledreamr » Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:15 pm

Fans, here's my motto:
WAIT AND SEE

It's good to express ideas, it's not the problem. But as Jens said, they'll give us news when there are. If the Strato reunion album is legal concerning the name, we'll be informed (I think), same if it is not legal.
And, Jens tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure we'll be told when the others have new material :)

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by RazielSR » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:28 am

Yes, we must wait eagledreamer, but you must understand our feelings. We are really bad with all this situation, sometimes I don't know whats better, if being here talking about the same shit all the time, or just stop and think. What a disaster, it's really annoying.

The most bad imo is that the remaining members have differents views about continuing with the name or not... So if some member doesn't want to continue with the name, and then they continue with the name or viceversa...how is it that? :?

And then we have Tolkki saying all about the new and final album after he made the waiver...

Anyway, I'm sure Jens and company are gonna make great songs and great albums. This can't end like this. NO NO NO.


PS: NO.
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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by icecab21 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 2:05 am

Now do obligations to fans mean release some rare and unseen and unheard material? Tolkki said in an interview that stratovarius had has live stuff that could be put together and released.
EDIT: Maybe all they have to do is sit down all together and watch the Star Wars and Indiana Jones?
If only. For now everything seems happy to be with who they are with and hopefully the good vibes can in time wipe out any bad feelings on either side. It would be ridiculous if any side kept ill opinions of the other with them.

i know. they could go on dr phil lol. too bad jerry springer is no longer doing a show

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by skywalker203 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:03 am

But I can't bear that Tolkki mentions 'Stratovarius' to his mouth. and If there is one album title 'Stratovarius' which 'Timo Tolkki' is printed in its booklet, I will curse it forevermore.

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by skywalker203 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:05 am

icecab21 wrote: too bad jerry springer is no longer doing a show

Well, A New Jerry Springer is in front of us. Can you see him, right?

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Re: Stratovarius? Who's Stratovarius?

Post by icecab21 » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:47 am

well just make the stratovarius name like the dread pirate roberts. same name ever changing members and songwriters and band leaders

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