Where is mr Tolkki????

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boswoth
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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by boswoth » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:03 pm

Mormegil wrote:I really hope they'd just let Tolkki release that album under whatever the name he wants and just forget about it.
Sure, Timo Tolkki gave away the name Stratovarius just because he's going to use it. And Timo Kotipelto & co. will make the next Revolution Renaissance record. Because that makes about the same amount of sense.

I can't believe you guys are all still arguing about this!

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by Mormegil » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:24 pm

boswoth wrote:Sure, Timo Tolkki gave away the name Stratovarius just because he's going to use it. And Timo Kotipelto & co. will make the next Revolution Renaissance record. Because that makes about the same amount of sense.
No it doesn't.
Tolkki, Lassila and Ikonen have already made Stratovarius-albums in the past.

The reason I wish they'd just let Tolkki do it is that if this trial about one stupid rock-band name makes it to finnish tabloids, I'd be even more embarrassed than I'm now to admit anyone that I am/was a fan of this band.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by icecab21 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:31 pm

the first set of guys does have 4 albums together as stratovarius. this current set has the legal name and 2 members that have done one album or less. the guys with teh legal name should just ask tolkki for a fee to pay back some of their legal bills from before and let it be. it's not like a album from the songwriter,song arranger, and producer of stratovarius is going to damage the sales or create confusion of the stratovarius legacy.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by Burning Reflection » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:14 pm

I think Tolkki knows what he's doing; he's just having a hard time letting go of the name/history and I don't blame him.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by browneyedgirl » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:17 pm

icecab21 wrote:the first set of guys does have 4 albums together as stratovarius. this current set has the legal name and 2 members that have done one album or less.
And, JJ, TK, And JM have done 8 or more albums under the STRATOVARIUS name, plus compilations&bootlegs. STRATOVARIUS had its best sales&rise to popularity when these 3 gentlemen became a part of the band. Cannot argue with that. Even Tolkki himself cannot dispute those facts.
the guys with teh legal name should just ask tolkki for a fee to pay back some of their legal bills from before and let it be. it's not like a album from the songwriter,song arranger, and producer of stratovarius is going to damage the sales or create confusion of the stratovarius legacy.
PAST songwriter, producer, etc.PAST, PAST, PAST. Tolkki has no say-so in this band now. Its not his anymore to worry about. He signed it&the name away.
I know its just a legal mumbo-jumbo, but:

Image

I see the Martyr Syndrome has already started, and the album has not even materialized yet, except for an idea. :lol:
Yes, its understandable how TT feels, but he has a chance to begin again with RR, and it will be a much larger audience than when Stratovarius started 23+ years ago. So, TT has an advantage this time, with his new band.
"Your life is yours, and yours alone. Rise up and live it!"

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by icecab21 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:59 pm

god thats one freaking big picture lol. i think tolkki should have done this much differently. from what i have read in koptipelto interveiws all he needed to do was write a elements 3 or something to make the guy quit on him or be crazy toward a few of them and poof no more stratovarius and tolkki keeps the name. i also think that if tolkki thinks it morraly wrong for them to use that name its not the best idea to hand them over the name rights.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by Stratowarius » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:01 pm

8) Not even the finnish tabloids seems to be interested in mr Tolkki anymore. Maybe they have heard his moaning many times too often and perhaps they know too much about him now. Luckily Icecar isn't a journalist on those papers :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by icecab21 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:13 pm

now that would be fun. in tolkkis latest posts he is just calmly and firmly stating his beleifs. it's not like he is going all "WHY WHY OH WHY WOE IS ME :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: CURSE THEM :cry: :cry: UNFAIR UNFAIR WHY OH WHY :cry: :cry: :cry: THEY RUIN ME :cry: :cry: :cry: "

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by Stratowarius » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:21 pm

No he writhes his hands and moans. "What have I done? I have given away my lifemission to some idiots that are going to sue me as soon as they can. Pooor me I only want to give love and they will take my art from me. Pooor me :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by icecab21 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:26 am

this next copy and paste crusade from beg should be a fun one. it seems to me that he is going by what he beleives and is not telling or asking others to go by the same system as him.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by MikeWacho » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:26 am

he could just make things without telling anybody (i mean since the begging of all these) and maybe make smarter moves...

not just running around yelling what he is gonna do before doing it...

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by boswoth » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:48 am

Mormegil wrote:No it doesn't. Tolkki, Lassila and Ikonen have already made Stratovarius-albums in the past.
Errrrrrrrr....... which part of "he gave the rights away" is it you have problems understanding :lol:

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by browneyedgirl » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:21 am

icecab21 wrote:this next copy and paste crusade from beg should be a fun one.
Are you paranoid, or something? There is no crusade. I'm just doing what you said, copy&paste to inform others what is going on in RR Forum. Because unless a person is a member, they cannot read the board there. :roll:
it seems to me that he is going by what he believes and is not telling or asking others to go by the same system as him.
Oh, Whew! Thank God for that! :D
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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by miditek » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:39 am

browneyedgirl wrote:LOL! The way Tolkki feels about Catholicism I don't think TT would agree to an exorcism. :lol:
That's tragic, but typical Tolkki. Why hate a God that you don't believe in to begin with?


browneyedgirl wrote: @miditek, you left out Martyr Complex. ;) You'd have to read TTs last 2 posts on that thread in RR Forum to understand what I mean. ;)
Sounds tempting, but I quit watching General Hospital years ago. :D


[quote="browneyedgir]"In essence, what TT thinks might happen: "Poor TT. He&his Ex-bandmates from the past make an cool album together& the big, bad remaining Stratovarius guys sues him. Poor TT. :~( And he did not make anything for himself." Instant "martyrdom" with many fans.[/quote]

I'd be willing to form up a group of investors to buy his publishing rights back and give them to him for free if he'd simply shut up. Perhaps he could call his next release: "Crucifixion Complex."
Κύριε ἐλέησον

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by browneyedgirl » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:23 am

Well, I have 2 more C&P posts about the subject, and no comment, except they do make for interesting reading. :eek: I just hope if TT is serious about this he knows, I mean, REALLY knows what he might be getting himself into! :(

-------------------RR FORUM:



icecab21,Aug 1 2008, 05:09 PM wrote: For me it's still a little interesting to give someone the legal rights to something that you morally don't want them to use. is not the legal system at least partly the cultural moral system of a society? It almost seems easier to have just gone "ok from now on we do gangster rap, what, you guys all quit? No band"

QUOTE FROM TT: I dont think neither "legal system" nor "cultural moral system" has any true morals at all. They both
serve the same machine. If anyone things there really exists any true democracy in this world, he/she is in my opinion buying the very lie we are being fed since the industrialized revolution began. Money and power rule the world and morals have nothing to do with that. In my little unimportant case I am just demonstrating that by giving away all the rights and the catalogue, I do not want to have anything to do with people who consider they can continue under the same name without me being there. And as a protest, I am willing to go to court with that and plead guilty. Stratovarius back catalogue is worth a lot of money, it is 11 records. On top of that by releasing a record that I have no legal right, but in my world a moral right to release, I might end up
paying big fees to the band. This is about morals, not what is written in the law or what is considered
"legal".


#2

icecab21,Aug 1 2008, 11:14 PM wrote: I was thinking (sort of since I'm going on things that I have read and am not sure about what I am saying) along the lines of legal systems being at the whim of those in power. Everything enforced by a legal system will go along with the values and whims of some and not follow the values of others. To some art is public domain and to others art intellectual property and an asset to be made exclusive.
Since I live in the USA the rules might be a different but I think from the trademark lawsuits that I have read about all income and distribution rights go to the winner. In the USA the lawsuits also usually call for outrageous punitive fees such as millions for a single song and publishing rights to a whole cataloge.
Since you are doing right by you that's what matters, since it all subjective, at the end of the day we answer to ourselves and our own values.

QUOTE FROM TT: If you are talking about the income from that record, I said I have my tricks I have learned. When talking about the penalty fees, if the courtcase happens and the band continues under the name Stratovarius, then I hope I will be judged by the highest penalty possible. Like I explained to you
and this seems very hard for some people to understand, giving away the rights to the name and to the back catalogue doesn't mean that I accept that they use the name. It throws the ball to them and also cuts all the ties so I dont have to deal with them in that case. With the possible courtcase, I wish
to demonstrate what is going on and that I still stand behind my art without a care about laws or legal punishments because of a cause that I believe in and because the name Stratovarius is more to me than just a name.

----------------------------END

@icecab21, pardon me for being such a nitpicking asshole,=P but you seem to post totally different on RR Forum than this one? ???
Ah, nevermind.........;)
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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by AGAG » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:52 am

... It's like he is saying "I'm going to kill myself to see if I get some attention, if I don't, I'll sue someone!"
---...---

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by icecab21 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:11 am

theres nothing wrong with copying and pasting , just seems people might as well post to the forum as well.

what's so different about my posts there than here?

i don't share tolkkis thought proccess but i definityly dont call any of this some emo cut my wrists cry in bed all day moaning. i just dont think he is lying in bed in a room full of tissues and padded walls with all sharp objects and chocking hazzards removed.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by MikeWacho » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:39 am

"ok from now on we do gangster rap, what, you guys all quit? No band"
damn, i want to hear some TT's gangstas rap :shock: :D :roll:

"yo!,MuTh4 fUcK4 m0n3y hUnGrie bIaTch3z" :lol:

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by Mormegil » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:24 am

boswoth wrote:
Mormegil wrote:No it doesn't. Tolkki, Lassila and Ikonen have already made Stratovarius-albums in the past.
Errrrrrrrr....... which part of "he gave the rights away" is it you have problems understanding :lol:
I wasn't talking about Tolkki giving the rights away.
I was saying that Tolkki, Lassila and Ikonen releasing a Stratovarius album is not the same thing as Jens & friends releasing a Revolution Renaissance album. Simple, huh?

My face is hurting from the constant facepalming when reading this section of the forum.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by icecab21 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:24 am

My face is hurting from the constant facepalming when reading this section of the forum.
and that's what makes this section great. lots of fun and rubbish

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by browneyedgirl » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:50 am

icecab21 wrote:
My face is hurting from the constant facepalming when reading this section of the forum.
and that's what makes this section great.
Well, the answer is easy. DON'T READ IT, then! :roll:
lots of fun and rubbish
And, YOU are the major contributor.
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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by boswoth » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:45 pm

Mormegil wrote:I wasn't talking about Tolkki giving the rights away.
Yes. And that's exactly the problem with you and all the Tolkki apologists here, you were trying to glance over that he gave the rest of the guys the name. You can't give something away and then just say, "now I take it back."

Not if you want people to respect you and not consider you an idiot.

.......... and for you Mormegil, you can't defend this either unless you want people to consider also you an idiot. :lol:

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by boswoth » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:47 pm

miditek wrote:That's tragic, but typical Tolkki. Why hate a God that you don't believe in to begin with?
Touché :)

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by Stratowarius » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:46 pm

:lol: :lol: I for one consider Mormegil an idiot when it concerns mr Tolkki:lol: :lol: and I have done so for a long time.Sorry but I now will give him more headache :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :) :) :( :( :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by Mormegil » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:13 pm

*Deleted post*

Oh fuck it, why am I even trying to reason with you.

This is what I personally believe:
Tolkki is my god, idol, hero, sacred cow and personal Jesus. I honestly believe everything he says and does is the truth. He doesn't have to to worry if he has the rights to use the Stratovarius-name. If Tolkki wants to use it, he has every right to do so.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by boswoth » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:21 pm

Mormegil wrote:The reason I wish they'd just let Tolkki do it is that if this trial about one stupid rock-band name makes it to finnish tabloids, I'd be even more embarrassed than I'm now to admit anyone that I am/was a fan of this band.
Say what you will about the music, I love it too.

You should be embarrased that you are a fan of, and supporting, Tolkki's behavoir. You not able to separate Tolkki the musician from Tolkki the person. People like me miditek and browneyedgirl can. You dont have to idolize the man just because you love the music he was part of creating.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by browneyedgirl » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:23 pm

Well, I think Tolkki locked that particular topic on RR forum. I got the last post, there are 2 others that I might get later. But, basicly the conversation just goes in circles&this last post of TTs is the gist of it.
Actually, this album is just in the idea stage, and I wonder if there has been any real discussion of it between TT, Antti&Tuomo? ??? I guess we will know in a year, or so! =P

------------------->RR Forum



TT: I dont think we really undrstand each others, but anyway.

icecab21: "If it's not stratovarius if tt tk jj and jm aren't in it,
then why is it stratovarius with the early members?"

TT: You cant really compare one album to their situation in which they
are continuing the band with most likely many years as Stratovarius. I am just demonstrating my point with one album and by definition a following courtcase that the idea of continuing as Stratovarius is morally wrong to me.
And the issue of greediness. These are my thoughts and opinions and as I have said Stratovarius has been my vision and my baby.


icecab21: "should they change their name and let the record be released
as stratovarius, what has become of putting the ball in their court?"

TT: Yes I think they should change their name. What they do with a
possible Lassila/Ikonen/Tolkki Stratovarius album is up to their morals, not mine.


icecab21: "in a past intereveiw you have said that there was enough
quality live materal for a compilation dvd to be made. what if they just do that kind of thing and release those unfinished things?"

TT: I have no control of anything that concerns Stratovarius

icecab21: "I get a little into creating scenarios and what if situations
so what if the band changes their name and uses the money they get from your ex share for a cause that you or they believe in? This name and this music can make some great differences in people's lives and that can spread. "

TT: This is in fact the essence of the whole thing. It is the name. No
Jens, Kotipelto or Jörg has anything to do with spirituality or the kind of lyrics and the message I have written in Stratovarius. They are not into that thing at all. They don't "believe in the cause" and actively participate in it the way I do from my heart with my recordings, blogs and interviews. I am spreading my message. And that is the very reason why I think it would be both fake and an attempt to cash with the name.
But as I see we do not understand each others in this, then I see no point in continuing this dialogue anymore. I think I have made my points very clear.


----------------------
Yeah, but we still don't know shit about this supposed Reunion album any more as we did from the start! :lol:
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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by Mormegil » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:55 pm

boswoth wrote:
Mormegil wrote:The reason I wish they'd just let Tolkki do it is that if this trial about one stupid rock-band name makes it to finnish tabloids, I'd be even more embarrassed than I'm now to admit anyone that I am/was a fan of this band.
Say what you will about the music, I love it too.

You should be embarrased that you are a fan of, and supporting, Tolkki's behavoir. You not able to separate Tolkki the musician from Tolkki the person. People like me miditek and browneyedgirl can. You dont have to idolize the man just because you love the music he was part of creating.
That's right, that's what I do.
I just admitted it on the previous page.


.
.
.

Oh for fuck's sake, I'm not a 15-year old school girl idolising Tokio Hotel and just because I dare to ask "what if Tolkki alone didn't fuck up everything?" doesn't make me one.
You think I'm simple-minded "idiot." The way I see it, most/some Tolkki-haters are those who take the most obvious view to things which is: Tolkki is a dick who doesn't realise what he is doing.

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by Mormegil » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:12 pm

Prove me wrong (so far no one did). :wink:

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Re: Where is mr Tolkki????

Post by icecab21 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:15 pm

And, YOU are the major contributor.
i was talking about my posts some fun some fun some rubbish and some wtf why do people think a calm thought out value system as just whining and trying to get attention.


This is music, not some "I’m going to commit murder and happily stand in court saying I’m guilty because I don't believe that my right to murder should be taken away"

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