A Doubt

Verdades Parias · Post by **Verdades Parias** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:04 am

My major expectations around the band are what song are you gonna play on tour.
For me, really, i have to say that it will be very cool to play "the other songs", and not to much the same old setlist with all the glorius hymns that Stratovarius played live every single concert the last 10 years.

Maybe those songs that the lyrics were written by TK, or maybe "Glory of the world" written by you Jens. Also some covers mixed with the classics.

The reasons for this, i find it in the fact that now we have, like "2 Stratovarius"....maybe with almost the same setlist?

Star_Ocean · Post by **Star_Ocean** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:33 am

Maybe they could do some Kotipelto songs as well!

fernandotcl · Post by **fernandotcl** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:20 am

My guess is that both bands will keep playing old Stratovarius songs, raging between 4D and the black album, focusing mainly on Destiny through Elements. Obviously, they will also play a couple of songs from the "post-fork" generation (New Era, King Of Nothing, whatever comes after those). Typical Stratovarius setlist style.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:06 am

Here is a setlist sort of thing with songs that have lyrics credits that include people not named tolkki. In this I have not included those few songs not composed by tolkki so they could be added to the list of potential not full tolkki songs in a setlist if the band for some reason chooses to do so. To me it would be really bad to keep the name and just drop Tolkki lyrics though. If they were to drop full Tolkki songs then a name change sounds very reasonable.

13. Against The Wind
14. Galaxies
16. We Hold The Key
17. Father Time
18. Will The Sun Rise?
20. Speed Of Light
23. Tomorrow
25. The Kiss Of Judas
26. Black Diamond
27. Forever Free
30. SOS
33. Cold Winter Nights
34. Hunting High And Low
36. Eagleheart

fernandotcl · Post by **fernandotcl** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:43 am

I don't see that happening, no reason to simply stop playing songs Tolkki composed...

Plisken · Post by **Plisken** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:48 am

I hope they play there old songs! I unfortunately never got the chance to see stratovarius live. Maybe for the past 10 years they have played a lot of the same songs. But there are 1000s of people out there like me who have yet to these songs preformed live.

RazielSR · Post by **RazielSR** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:56 am

I hope they play the old songs too. RR is gonna play the old songs, so imagine if Stratovarius does not play the old songs live...TK is the real vocalist and we can't lose that.

Lurdi · Post by **Lurdi** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:18 am

Yes, there are many many songs they could play live. Lord of the wasteland could be quite cool to play since the keyboard plays an important role in that songs. The Abyss of your eyes, Eternity, Coming home...these and many other songs are unfortunately hardly played live.

nepi · Post by **nepi** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:19 pm

I would love to hear songs I haven't heard live since ages e.g. Find Your Own Voice, Destiny, Rebel or other blasts! I know, the Kiss is compulsory, but there are lot of compulsory songs they should play live and mebbe replace some...

or Eternity / Uncertainty - what blast! but I do want to hear such songs live... hope I'm not the only one here...

give me support guys

mitelika · Post by **mitelika** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:05 pm

nepi wrote:I would love to hear songs I haven't heard live since ages e.g. Find Your Own Voice, Destiny, Rebel or other blasts! I know, the Kiss is compulsory, but there are lot of compulsory songs they should play live and mebbe replace some...

or Eternity / Uncertainty - what blast! but I do want to hear such songs live... hope I'm not the only one here...

give me support guys

+1

AGAG · Post by **AGAG** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:59 pm

mitelika wrote:
nepi wrote:I would love to hear songs I haven't heard live since ages e.g. Find Your Own Voice, Destiny, Rebel or other blasts! I know, the Kiss is compulsory, but there are lot of compulsory songs they should play live and mebbe replace some...

or Eternity / Uncertainty - what blast! but I do want to hear such songs live... hope I'm not the only one here...

give me support guys
+1

+2

Star_Ocean · Post by **Star_Ocean** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:36 pm

I love the song "Find Your Own Voice", but I do think it is a bit much to play that song live during full shows.

Why? Kotipelto's lungs seem to get tired really easily during live shows, and if they were at a show that was around an hour and a half long, it would absolutely kill him. I mean, maybe at a festival where they are only play four or five songs, then sure it might work (even at those festivals he tends to have trouble). But a full length show seems a bit much for "Find Your Own Voice". It's far too demanding.

Note: I haven't heard them play this song live so I am just basing this off from his usual performances during songs that are often high in range. For those of you who have heard "Find Your Own Voice" live, how is he?

stratoplayer · Post by **stratoplayer** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:39 pm

Star_Ocean wrote:I love the song "Find Your Own Voice", but I do think it is a bit much to play that song live during full shows.

Why? Kotipelto's lungs seem to get tired really easily during live shows, and if they were at a show that was around an hour and a half long, it would absolutely kill him. I mean, maybe at a festival where they are only play four or five songs, then sure it might work (even at those festivals he tends to have trouble). But a full length show seems a bit much for "Find Your Own Voice". It's far too demanding.

Note: I haven't heard them play this song live so I am just basing this off from his usual performances during songs that are often high in range. For those of you who have heard "Find Your Own Voice" live, how is he?

Yeah, as much as I love FYOV it's quite demanding, he has to sing in almost Falsetto voice which really fucks up your voice... (I know not quite Falsetto but) Axl Rose I'm looking at you...

Lurdi · Post by **Lurdi** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:11 pm

Timo Kotipelto doesn't like very much Elements' songs. He said he had to sing too much high in songs such as Find your own voice, Learning to fly...so I don't think they are gonna play those songs.
Anyway I love his voice, no matter how high or low he sings. He can kick any ass.

Mariano_Strato · Post by **Mariano_Strato** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:42 pm

Well i hope they play them. On the other hand the fact is that every time that "Stratovarius" plays a Tolkki song they will have to pay him. Because he owns all the copyrights of the songs (he composed the music and the lyrics for more than 90% of all Stratovarius songs, percentage wich includes the best ones), actually he mentioned that thing about "Stratovarius" playing Stratovarius songs live from now on, in his forum.

exe knight · Post by **exe knight** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:01 pm

Fuck! How long does it take for people to learn/notice/remember that anyone can play any songs anywhere when they want without having to pay anyone anything.

Only thing is that you need a permission to record a song.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:06 pm

people don't need permission but that does not mean that money does not need to be payed for playing a copywrite song.

Star_Ocean · Post by **Star_Ocean** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:23 pm

^^^ Stratovarius doesn't have to pay Tolkki a single thing.

You're completely misunderstanding what Tolkki said.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:53 pm

I never gave away the "copyrights" to the songs. I gave away the rights to the band name and to the royalties (which are substantial from the back catalogue) that come from the album sales. Giving away the copyrights would have been a crime against myself since those are the songs that I wrote and my daughter will inherit when I die. Plus that money is always paid by a copyright society. Not management or the band. And that was one of the reasons I gave the rights away:not wanting to be in any contact.

About who's gonna play what. There is nobody that can prevent you or your band to play any song live. But in this case every time "Stratovarius" plays my songs live, I actually get money from that. That money is different from record royalties. You can call it performance royalties.

He said the company that pays out royalties will pay him. This does not go through stratovarius but it is money that would go to them if they had composed the songs. Stratovarius makes less money in royalties playing his songs than their own. In essence they pay him since its money they do not receive and money that he does receive.

Star_Ocean · Post by **Star_Ocean** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:07 am

Do I really need to explain what Tolkki said, or are you really too unattentive to find out? >_>

Stratovarius pays nothing.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:20 am

Explain
Tolkki said stratovarius pays nothing
The royalty company pays tolkki for the songs performed that are written by tolkki
If a member of stratovarius had written the song, that member would be paid the royalty.

Therefore, when they play a song by tolkki, tolkki gets money, when they play a song by another member, that member gets money. A member of stratovarius would be paid more if his song was played than a song by tolkki.

Members receive less money when they play a tolkki song
Tolkki receives more money when they play a tolkki song
Whether you want to call that paying or not it makes no difference. The money goes one direction at the cost of not going in the other.

Person A plays a song person A wrote and gets 10 dollars
Person A plays a song person B wrote and gets 9 dollars, person B gets 1 dollar.
By playing persons B song, person A received one dollar less and person B received 1 dollar more. Person A would not receive 10 dollars and have to pay person B 1 dollar, the distribution is done by a third party. This is still a payment indirectly and a cost of 1 dollar to person A.

From tolkki

But in this case every time "Stratovarius" plays my songs live, I actually get money from that

from me, clearly stating the band pays nothing directly. It is payed indirectly

This does not go through stratovarius but it is money that would go to them if they had composed the songs.

JavyMetal1092 · Post by **JavyMetal1092** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:30 am

Plisken wrote:I hope they play there old songs! I unfortunately never got the chance to see stratovarius live. Maybe for the past 10 years they have played a lot of the same songs. But there are 1000s of people out there like me who have yet to these songs preformed live.

agree, the old song with the new songs, I never saw Stratovarius on live before and Want the next year, the old songs that they want it is don't important, maybe they can play the songs like covers, coz RR = playing songs like Hunting High and Low and We Hold the key (with Kotipelto sounds better

) coz Tolkki have the rights but Stratovarius can like cover of the old times

Post by **JensJohansson** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:53 am

It's not so much complicated as just boring to explain. Basically it's like this.

Assume when I say "songs" below it's songs that were recorded and released to the public with the permission of the composer. This is true for any Stratovarius song you have ever heard.

1 Anyone can play anyone's songs live. The venue is technically responsible for paying the composers. If it's a bigger place it becomes an issue. It has nothing to do with who the composers are, the amount depends on the number of people in the audience. If they even care, you fill in a list of which songs were played. Then the venue pays something to performance rights society. PRS then accounts and pays some of this to the composers (if PRS is reliable and doesn't misplace the money....)

2a Anyone can also record anyone's songs. This is called the "compulsory license" and has its roots in the history of piano rolls in the 1910's (don't ask me to elaborate, boring). This is what enables legal "cover versions" (where let's say Van Halen can record a cover of the Kinks song "You Really Got Me")

2b A common exception to 2a: Sometimes as part of a recording agreement you promise not to rerecord the songs made under that agreement even after the term ends. So for instance Helloween could not remake their own "cover versions" for another label of the songs on "Keeper part 1", which was made under an agreement with Noise Records.

Got it? OK? OK!

More interestingly, we did actually play "Find your own voice" live. There is a pretty nice live video of this that never was 100% finished, but all of that concert (Milan) might be released on DVD some day.

stratoplayer · Post by **stratoplayer** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:48 am

JensJohansson wrote:It's not so much complicated as just boring to explain. Basically it's like this.

Assume when I say "songs" below it's songs that were recorded and released to the public with the permission of the composer. This is true for any Stratovarius song you have ever heard.

1 Anyone can play anyone's songs live. The venue is technically responsible for paying the composers. If it's a bigger place it becomes an issue. It has nothing to do with who the composers are, the amount depends on the number of people in the audience. If they even care, you fill in a list of which songs were played. Then the venue pays something to performance rights society. PRS then accounts and pays some of this to the composers (if PRS is reliable and doesn't misplace the money....)

2a Anyone can also record anyone's songs. This is called the "compulsory license" and has its roots in the history of piano rolls in the 1910's (don't ask me to elaborate, boring). This is what enables legal "cover versions" (where let's say Van Halen can record a cover of the Kinks song "You Really Got Me")

2b A common exception to 2a: Sometimes as part of a recording agreement you promise not to rerecord the songs made under that agreement even after the term ends. So for instance Helloween could not remake their own "cover versions" for another label of the songs on "Keeper part 1", which was made under an agreement with Noise Records.

Got it? OK? OK!

More interestingly, we did actually play "Find your own voice" live. There is a pretty nice live video of this that never was 100% finished, but all of that concert (Milan) might be released on DVD some day.

Interesting, lots of stuff I didn't know. No wonder Kakko and Crew get away with playing Still Loving You and We Will Rock You live...

nepi · Post by **nepi** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:44 am

JensJohansson wrote:More interestingly, we did actually play "Find your own voice" live. There is a pretty nice live video of this that never was 100% finished, but all of that concert (Milan) might be released on DVD some day.

RazielSR · Post by **RazielSR** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:15 pm

I'm sure you have a lot of good videos about Strato. They must come to light!!

You can release 2 o 3 live DVD and other stuff while we wait for the new album.

browneyedgirl · Post by **browneyedgirl** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:02 pm

JensJohansson wrote:More interestingly, we did actually play "Find your own voice" live. There is a pretty nice live video of this that never was 100% finished, but all of that concert (Milan) might be released on DVD some day.

That would be great! I hope that does happen!

fernandotcl · Post by **fernandotcl** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:11 pm

Hell yeah!

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:08 pm

I would love it if they released some of those 200 minute dvd's like manowar does. a complilation of the best live performances over the years.

Lurdi · Post by **Lurdi** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:56 pm

We have very little stuff of this kind from them. I'd like to have more dvds like the Infinite Visions one, and more shows in HQ like Raumanmeri and Tuska...What a pitty, I'm sure they have a LOT of material that would be nice to release, and we would ber very pleased to watch.

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