Discussion on self titled album

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Discussion on self titled album

Post by hiro23 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:30 am

I know this one is looked at as the one that wasn't quite good enough to a lot of fans.

I would like to know most other people's opinion's on this, please keep it respectable though I'd rather not have an argument.

My personal opinion is that I think it's pretty good, most of the music on it sounds like Stratovarius.
The only song I though was out of place and sounded strange on the album was "maniac dance"

That song truly sounds like another band, however I think the rest of the album is pure Stratovarius.
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by exe knight » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:54 am

I think that atleast the songs Back to madness, Fall of the gods (Zenith of power) and Leave the tribe are some awesome songs. In Zop though I don't like that speech of Hitler (?).
Other songs are either ok'ish, or boring. Maniac dance is ok song though it's slow and unstratoish. Fight!!! is fine though it could have been doublebass song. and Gypsy in me was awesome at first listens but then I got bored, though it has a great atmosphere.

The cover art is cool boringness.

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by Lurdi » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:49 am

It is not a bad album. I think I would have loved that album if I had never listened to their previous albums. It is completely different from what they are used to play and also from what we are used to listen from them, mainly because there are songs that are more rockish than anything. It would have been an amazing album for another band that had the Stratovarius album style, but not for them. Their level is very much above of this cd. They are perfectly capable of doing extraordinary things and the Stratovarius album is not a patch on them.

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by Aldaron » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:08 pm

Lurdi wrote:It is not a bad album. I think I would have loved that album if I had never listened to their previous albums. It is completely different from what they are used to play and also from what we are used to listen from them, mainly because there are songs that are more rockish than anything. It would have been an amazing album for another band that had the Stratovarius album style, but not for them. Their level is very much above of this cd. They are perfectly capable of doing extraordinary things and the Stratovarius album is not a patch on them.
Very good point. I think that basically sums it up for me too. That said, there are some songs I really enjoy on that album, but in a different way than prior Stratovarius songs. I actually like Maniac Dance. The tune is catchy, the lyrics are edgy and I like Timo K.'s more aggressive approach.

Really, I can listen to the first five songs (and still do) and appreciate them. Carry On and Gypsy in Me remind me a little of Walk to My Own Song and other similar songs. They're a little more "ordinary" than songs Strato recorded before, but Kotipelto's vocals save them for me, since I never get tired of listening to him sing. My favorite is Back To Madness for the dark, emotional aspect of it. It does lose me about midway through the soliloquy at the end, though where he starts talking about the caterpillar thing. It's ok, til that point, then it gets too trite and melodramatic.

As for the rest of the album, I never have liked any of the slower, gradiose Strato ballad-type things, so Gotterdammerung and United were a snooze right away, especially United. I get the spiritual idea behind the lyrics, but it's expressed in phrases that are just overused. It would have been nice to hear the same concept delivered with more clever words than tired, old expressions.
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:32 pm

Well, IMO, this album was much different musically than the previous Strato Albums. I loved The Land of Ice and Snow, ZoP, Back to Madness, and Maniac Dance. The other songs were OK, but did not really stand out, IMO.

Overall, though, I did enjoy this album and I am definitely glad I added it to my CD collection. :)

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by Lurdi » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:51 pm

I don't think they wrote and recorded the album in a hurry, but they can give us much more than the Strato album. Well, TT said they were not very happy with that album, so maybe it was somehow a period of transition, and then we have and will have all these wonderful and positive things we are now living and are also yet to come. They are doing their best for sure.
I also forgot to mention that I love the song The land of ice and snow. I think it is a really touching song and I suppose it will have a special meaning for the Finns. I like when TK sings high and low in that song, but has his voice any defect? :o

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by RazielSR » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:16 pm

Everybody knows the way the album was recorded,the problems they had etc, etc(well, if everything they said was true, who knows...) so the final result is strange.

It's a normal album with some good songs (the best song for me is Gipsy in me). It's not an Stratovarius style album. The worst album for me. Another album like so many albums, I can listen to some songs sometimes, but...

The album style is EXACTLY the style that I don't wanna have in Stratovarius.
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by Mormegil » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:53 pm

Maniac Dance: Honestly, for me, just a second grade Judas Priest -song. :/

Fight: Nice, simple and catchy. Just lacks that "something", that other similar Strato-classics have.

Just Carry On: Some nice moments, but nothing to keep me interested.

Back To Madness: This I like a lot. Imho the finest peace from the album. I really like the opera-part at the end.

Gypsy In Me: Lame, filler-like.

Götterdämmerung: I prefer the one by Richard Wagner. :D Tries to be more epic than it is. If they had kept the original title "Hitler" and written some ballsier and more, say, controversial lyrics about the subject, this could've been one of the greatest.

The Land Of Ice And Snow: I never understood why people liked this one. Well, at least they mention Koskenkorva in the lyrics. ;)

Leave The Tribe: My second favourite after Back To Madness. Underrated.

United: Again, attempts to be more epic than actually is. With better production (read: more keyboards/symphonic elements a la Visions and Destiny) and overall feeling to go with the lyrics, this would've been much better.

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by icecab21 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:09 pm

My favorite tracks are loias, ltt, and united. Overall I think it's a sound the band needed to never do. I don't see how that is the album produced that is supposed to be the big contract major seller. The logical thing for me to sell more albums would have been to write songs similar to the big hits and this album does not do that. Tolkki was not his best songwriting environment. For me an album or a band with the song type of land of ice and snow would be awesome.

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by hiro23 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:47 pm

Like I said I liked every song on it except "maniac dance"

To me that was the only one that didn't quite sound right.
but then again the self titled was the first Stratovarius album I ever got and then I worked my way backwards from there.
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by emperor_black » Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:44 pm

United is the best song in that album. for me is the only song that is not an empty shell in the whole album. I lke the other songs, but for me United is the only "memorable" song.


But in the other hand we have that every fucking word in that song is a fucking lie. At least they're very beautiful lies...

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by fernandotcl » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:40 am

I agree, United fucking rocks.

In my opinion it's a great album. I'd give it 4 out of 5 stars if any other band released it, but since it's Stratovarius, our standards are much higher.

We always expect outstanding music from Stratovarius, and the black album is just great.

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by hiro23 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:29 am

I liked "Fight a whole lot, I thought the guitar solo in that was Fucking awesome.
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by exe knight » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:05 pm

If I remember correctly (if it was not a joke) TT wanted to name Götterdammerun "Jesus Hitler", that would have been pretty blackmetal title. :twisted:

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by alpha&omega » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:50 pm

browneyedgirl?!

Are you on it that pic?? :o
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by JensJohansson » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:21 pm

emperor_black wrote:United is the best song in that album. for me is the only song that is not an empty shell in the whole album. I lke the other songs, but for me United is the only "memorable" song.

But in the other hand we have that every fucking word in that song is a fucking lie. At least they're very beautiful lies...
It's more complicated: the statement "every fucking word in that song is a fucking lie" is what is a fucking lie :)

I'll say it again: you can't change what happened in the past by typing a bunch of stuff on the intertubes where you claim it happened differently... you know... you can't change the past by just making stuff up. And I mean TT, not you, emperor_black..

But don't get me started... :lol: As much as I try to avoid talking or thinking about this stuff from the past, I'm sure some of these questions will come up when we do interviews for the new record next year, so I am basically saving some of it for our esteemed friends in the press (those-who-buy-ink-by-the-bucket).

Anyway, if I try to put all the other issues aside and just consider it purely as a piece of music, I like the album myself .. I can't say if it's better or worse than any other record, only that I like it.

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:25 pm

well, let's look at it this way. Now TT has his own band and keeps composing beautiful music. Strato members can continue and they can compose what they want. let's look at the bright side!
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by JensJohansson » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:31 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:well, let's look at it this way. Now TT has his own band and keeps composing beautiful music. Strato members can continue and they can compose what they want. let's look at the bright side!
Well yes, it's exactly how I look at it, except on that rare occasion when I'm posting in a thread regarding the "self titled" 2005 album, clarifying something about a song on it... ?

What I really hope is that the next press tour will have very little focus on this type of negative stuff. But I do know some of it will be inevitable and I accept that.

I have said it many times before here, and I'll say it again.. all the best of luck to TT and his new band :)

Staying up late (as usual) and making some more keyboard parts for that "Something Precious" song.. I should make a new blog/video but I don't know if I have time, there is much to do still!

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by stratohawk » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:33 pm

hiro23 wrote: My personal opinion is that I think it's pretty good, most of the music on it sounds like Stratovarius.
The only song I though was out of place and sounded strange on the album was "maniac dance"
Well I like the whole album. Of course it's not as outstanding as "Episode" or "Visions". But it has a very good sound, a dark atmosphere (so it really reflects what the band was going through at that time), and some are really very good songs, like "Fight!!", "Land Of Ice And Snow", some are really touching ("Land Of Ice And Snow", or "Back To Madness", which seems like a work of art to me). Only "Zenith Of Power" disappointed me. "Maniac Dance" I found very strange and averaged in the beginning, but after a while I started to value it as a pretty cool song. 8)

It's definitely not their worst album, I give it a ranking somewhere under the top 5.

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by Burning Reflection » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:37 pm

JensJohansson wrote: I can't say if it's better or worse than any other record, only that I like it.
You probably like it because you had the least amount of work to do on it :wink: :lol:

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by emperor_black » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:04 am

JensJohansson wrote:
emperor_black wrote:United is the best song in that album. for me is the only song that is not an empty shell in the whole album. I lke the other songs, but for me United is the only "memorable" song.

But in the other hand we have that every fucking word in that song is a fucking lie. At least they're very beautiful lies...
It's more complicated: the statement "every fucking word in that song is a fucking lie" is what is a fucking lie :)

I'll say it again: you can't change what happened in the past by typing a bunch of stuff on the intertubes where you claim it happened differently... you know... you can't change the past by just making stuff up. And I mean TT, not you, emperor_black..

But don't get me started... :lol: As much as I try to avoid talking or thinking about this stuff from the past, I'm sure some of these questions will come up when we do interviews for the new record next year, so I am basically saving some of it for our esteemed friends in the press (those-who-buy-ink-by-the-bucket).

Anyway, if I try to put all the other issues aside and just consider it purely as a piece of music, I like the album myself .. I can't say if it's better or worse than any other record, only that I like it.


hahahaha, Jens... yeah I understand.

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by hiro23 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:26 am

JensJohansson wrote:
NeverendingAbyss wrote:well, let's look at it this way. Now TT has his own band and keeps composing beautiful music. Strato members can continue and they can compose what they want. let's look at the bright side!
Well yes, it's exactly how I look at it, except on that rare occasion when I'm posting in a thread regarding the "self titled" 2005 album, clarifying something about a song on it... ?

What I really hope is that the next press tour will have very little focus on this type of negative stuff. But I do know some of it will be inevitable and I accept that.

I have said it many times before here, and I'll say it again.. all the best of luck to TT and his new band :)

Staying up late (as usual) and making some more keyboard parts for that "Something Precious" song.. I should make a new blog/video but I don't know if I have time, there is much to do still!

well just know that I too really liked the album Jens, it had a different atmosphere to it but I still thought it was great.
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by JensJohansson » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:36 am

Burning Reflection wrote:
JensJohansson wrote: I can't say if it's better or worse than any other record, only that I like it.
You probably like it because you had the least amount of work to do on it :wink: :lol:
Shit .. you have no idea .... I actually did a lot of work on that. Maybe a week or something of recording stuff. But since about Infinite days I usually did the "overkill" approach, putting a bunch of ideas and then let TT sort out what he wanted on it. Using what Karmila calls the GME ("Great Mute Effect") :lol:

If you count the "other" work -- that is, not wearing my keyboard player's hat -- I think it was the most amount of hours/days/weeks/months I spent on any one album.....
hiro23 wrote: well just know that I too really liked the album Jens, it had a different atmosphere to it but I still thought it was great
Thank you all, whether you liked it or not .. yes, it was a bit of a dark album but that's how things went.....

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by Rebel » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:38 am

JensJohansson wrote:
Burning Reflection wrote:
JensJohansson wrote: I can't say if it's better or worse than any other record, only that I like it.
You probably like it because you had the least amount of work to do on it :wink: :lol:
Shit .. you have no idea .... I actually did a lot of work on that. Maybe a week or something of recording stuff. But since about Infinite days I usually did the "overkill" approach, putting a bunch of ideas and then let TT sort out what he wanted on it. Using what Karmila calls the GME ("Great Mute Effect") :lol:

If you count the "other" work -- that is, not wearing my keyboard player's hat -- I think it was the most amount of hours/days/weeks/months I spent on any one album.....
hiro23 wrote: well just know that I too really liked the album Jens, it had a different atmosphere to it but I still thought it was great
Thank you .. yes, it was a bit of a dark album but that's how things went!
Who wields the GME now?

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by JensJohansson » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:46 am

Rebel wrote: Who wields the GME now?
I wield it for my own songs, and so do the other guys for theirs. :)

I still record many things for each song, and even for my own songs plan to in some cases ask Karmila's opinion.. brutal as it may be, as ever!!

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by stratoplayer » Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:06 am

JensJohansson wrote:
Rebel wrote: Who wields the GME now?
I wield it for my own songs, and so do the other guys for theirs. :)

I still record many things for each song, and even for my own songs plan to in some cases ask Karmila's opinion.. brutal as it may be, as ever!!
The demos clips you guys have shown us already sound great, though I don't know how nitpickity you guys are. Best of luck with a speedy recording and mixing!
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by JensJohansson » Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:34 am

stratoplayer wrote: though I don't know how nitpickity you guys are. Best of luck with a speedy recording and mixing!
Extremely nitpicky! Sometimes. :lol:

And thank you .. we'll have some more info soon about what the exact plans are, what more gigs will be played next year, but as usual we don't announce nothing unless it's 100% confirmed.

I can say that in addition to the two Wacken Rocks shows in Germany, we have also confirmed shows in France, Spain and Finland. We are looking at a lot more; as many as possible in fact. It will be fantastic to play live again!

Regarding those three, that's unfortunately all I can say at the moment, just the countries ..

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:39 am

JensJohansson wrote:
stratoplayer wrote: though I don't know how nitpickity you guys are. Best of luck with a speedy recording and mixing!
Extremely nitpicky! Sometimes. :lol:

And thank you .. we'll have some more info soon about what the exact plans are, what more gigs will be played next year, but as usual we don't announce nothing unless it's 100% confirmed.

I can say that in addition to the two Wacken Rocks shows in Germany, we have also confirmed shows in France, Spain and Finland. We are looking at a lot more; as many as possible in fact. It will be fantastic to play live again!

Regarding those three, that's unfortunately all I can say at the moment, just the countries ..
Great! Don't forget Chile, though. 8)
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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by Lurdi » Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:54 am

JensJohansson wrote:
we have also confirmed shows in France, Spain and Finland. We are looking at a lot more; as many as possible in fact. It will be fantastic to play live again!
SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!! I'll have to start to save some money!!!!!!

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Re: Discussion on self titled album

Post by stonedphoenix » Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:55 am

JensJohansson wrote:
stratoplayer wrote: though I don't know how nitpickity you guys are. Best of luck with a speedy recording and mixing!
Extremely nitpicky! Sometimes. :lol:

And thank you .. we'll have some more info soon about what the exact plans are, what more gigs will be played next year, but as usual we don't announce nothing unless it's 100% confirmed.

I can say that in addition to the two Wacken Rocks shows in Germany, we have also confirmed shows in France, Spain and Finland. We are looking at a lot more; as many as possible in fact. It will be fantastic to play live again!

Regarding those three, that's unfortunately all I can say at the moment, just the countries ..
Oh god! :D
As I said before, I want to book a show but I already have wrote two mails (one for ContinentalConcerts and the other one for Twisted Talent) and just received one answer from the Twisted Talent guys saying that they'll get back to me, we're serious people and we really want to get you guys here, sorry to bother you with that Jens but if you can help us out it will be great :oops:

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