Stratovarius Community

... did anyone else notice <A href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCoiG7unOvY">this</A>?

It's been bothering me for quite some time now, and I wasn't able to find a similar topic via a forum search. Or is this common knowledge around here?

so the creators of the game ripped strato songs?

At least they had good taste!

What the....

I have no idea, but I'd very much like to know.

Ideal: There was some backstage connection between the two during production.

Worst-case: Budokai ripped-off Stratovarius. (At least I certainly hope so... I'm a diehard fan of both, but I'm not low enough to accuse the band on their own forum. )

What the fuck? Call Tolkki! He can sue them!

Damn man, too bad I only have Budokai 3!!! Blasting someone with a 10X Kamekameha while SS4 and listening to Strato-melodies would be the best.

fernandotcl wrote:At least they had good taste!

This is true.

On an unrelated note, I'm glad to hear someone else using the SS4 abbreviation. I'm sick and tired of all this 'SSJ' bullshit.

@ Xelrog T. Apocalypse
Why do you make such a big deal out of it? The composer of this music did just pay tribute to a band he likes. I don't see any problem with it. Although I think he should've at least mention it in the credits. But still, I don't understand why you make such a big deal out of it.

Well, that's true.

I'm just shocked to know they used Strato songs but I'm pleased, not angry.

I'm not angry, never was. Just curious.

It sounds like a little more than tribute to me, though. The Budokai series is a multimillion dollar franchise, and the music used was virtually unchanged - not to mention the fact that they completely wiped it out in the third game rather than simply letting it die.

That's not in any way falling into the field of copyright infringement?

Xelrog T. Apocalypse wrote:I'm not angry, never was. Just curious.

It sounds like a little more than tribute to me, though. The Budokai series is a multimillion dollar franchise, and the music used was virtually unchanged - not to mention the fact that they completely wiped it out in the third game rather than simply letting it die.

That's not in any way falling into the field of copyright infringement?

Okay, what? Virtually unchanged? Are you kidding me? There are changes!

And please no more copyright bullshit. I think we had enough of that.

There are changes, but not too many. In any case it's debatable, no point arguing either way.

And what, are you talking about Tolkki? Or did I miss something else?

Xelrog T. Apocalypse wrote:... did anyone else notice <A href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCoiG7unOvY">this</A>?

It's been bothering me for quite some time now, and I wasn't able to find a similar topic via a forum search. Or is this common knowledge around here?

Well, the chord progressions, tempos and ideas is definitely too close for these to be an accident. Especially if taken as a whole like in this video. I'd say whoever made that music is a pretty big Strato fan..

Is it legal plagiarism, some sort of infringement, or just flattery? I don't know. I noticed there was even one of my songs in there. If you ask me to guess, probably it would be possible to sue and win the case.

It doesn't rise to the level of anything I'd call a lawyer about. I'm pretty lawyer-weary at the moment!

I never heard of this one before, but I am aware of the Lil Wayne "Navigator" sample that he ripped from "Anthem of the World"

Lil' Wayne:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Na1QfRLC4Q

Stratovarius:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs16gYQzcf0

That would be a legal issue between TT, Universal and "Cash Money Records", whatever the fuck that is.

Since Lil Wayne now also appears to somehow be on Universal maybe they should sue themselves. That'd be kind of funny.

Universal are rather huge, amorphous and disorganized. This giant amoeba of a label barely open their legal correspondence and answer their phones.. if they sued themselves they'd probably both lose. That last sentence didn't make any sense whatsoever but i don't care.

Anthem of the World goes ghetto...

Always honored to hear from the band. But then, who here isn't.

I'm not questioning the legality of the situation... from what I can tell it's more of a 'remix' than anything. To which I won't pretend to know all the technicalities and such required to release such a track professionally. Seems my main question's been answered, though, the two had nothing to do with one another directly.


Which greatly saddens me, but at the same time, doesn't surprise me, granted the band's latant supply of epic. (Who wouldn't want to use it?)

Xelrog T. Apocalypse wrote:Always honored to hear from the band. But then, who here isn't.

I'm not questioning the legality of the situation... from what I can tell it's more of a 'remix' than anything. To which I won't pretend to know all the technicalities and such required to release such a track professionally. Seems my main question's been answered, though, the two had nothing to do with one another directly.

Which greatly saddens me, but at the same time, doesn't surprise me, granted the band's latant supply of epic. (Who wouldn't want to use it?)

Yeah, if your question was "is this authorized" the answer is no.

If you ask me, taken as a whole it rises to the level of plagiarism legally. I have been involved in other cases and the bar is actually set lower than this. But who has the energy to sue some game company over crap like this ...

Was this a popular game? What's the approximate sales?

I couldn't find any sales figures, but it was moderately-recieved at best. Most professional and user polls scored it in the 60%'s... and the second game only did worse. The series didn't have much of a fanbase until the third game came in, then the subsequent Tenkaichi series, which is still ongoing.

There's really no changing it now since the first two games are so long out of production... and were never too popular to begin with. To be perfectly honest, at most you could probably get a public statement from Atari and Dimps. I'd hate to see any conflict between two of my greatest loves, though.

... incidentally, what are some of your songs? A few of the earlier and less-popularized Strato songs seemed stale to me after a while, but Anthem of the World is definitely among my favorites.

like the Cinder Theme in the game Killer Instinct,for my, this song is a bit similar to the song of the disc fourth dimension called "Stratovarius" in the minute 3:00 or 3:40 specially, at least a few friends and I think it or we are crazy

Soundtrack - Killer Instinct - Cinder Theme

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaNHjB1hy0

Stratovarius - Stratovarius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSzXydCMAYg

... I think I can hear it, but that's only out of a few seconds of the song. And it doesn't sound intentional. :P

JensJohansson wrote:

Xelrog T. Apocalypse wrote:Always honored to hear from the band. But then, who here isn't.

I'm not questioning the legality of the situation... from what I can tell it's more of a 'remix' than anything. To which I won't pretend to know all the technicalities and such required to release such a track professionally. Seems my main question's been answered, though, the two had nothing to do with one another directly.

Which greatly saddens me, but at the same time, doesn't surprise me, granted the band's latant supply of epic. (Who wouldn't want to use it?)

Yeah, if your question was "is this authorized" the answer is no.

If you ask me, taken as a whole it rises to the level of plagiarism legally. I have been involved in other cases and the bar is actually set lower than this. But who has the energy to sue some game company over crap like this ...

Was this a popular game? What's the approximate sales?

They actually sold quit a bit. Dragon Ball Z: Budokai sold 2.8 million copies and Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 2 sold 2.17 million. Saw a video on youtube like 3 years ago that compared the songs like that. Didnt really think much of it at the time though.

I got the sales info from here for Dragon Ball Z: Budokai : http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php? ... region=All

and here for Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 2 : http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php? ... region=All

That's the site I checked. I couldn't find the actual figures, though.

Must be blind or my browser just screwed me.

Xelrog T. Apocalypse wrote:That's the site I checked. I couldn't find the actual figures, though.

Must be blind or my browser just screwed me.

Hmm. It seems like it sold pretty OK. Well I don't have any energy left for legal battles at the moment. But maybe I should post a wanted ad in Craigslist New York, like this:

Hungry entertainment lawyer/ shark wanted

Do you have some time and energy to fight a winnable battle? Do you want to cut your teeth battling a huge corporation on behalf of a bunch of broke musicians?

We would be interested in a no-win no-fee arrangement. It would be a plagiarism case and it is very clear. Our opponent would be Nintendo. Sales of the infringing product are in the range 2 million.

For more details:

http://www.stratovarius.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9070
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCoiG7unOvY

Can you smell the blood in the water? Then please contact us. It will be fun.



What do you guys think, should I contact TT, the publishers, and the other guys, clear it with them, and let some NYC lawyer loose like a shark in the water? I changed this topic into a poll now. Twist my arm!!

What bugs me is that TT tried to sue Kotipelto for the using of "Hunting High and Low" on "Battle of the Choirs" but doesn't care about the DBZ Bodukai thing or the Lil Wayne song.

Ragehead91 wrote:What bugs me is that TT tried to sue Kotipelto for the using of "Hunting High and Low" on "Battle of the Choirs" but doesn't care about the DBZ Bodukai thing or the Lil Wayne song.

I don't even know if he knew about these, or remembered. I had no idea about the Nintendo thing myself. It's a big world and time is precious.

The Lil Wayne thing is complicated legally. Nintendo would be easier since it's about the compositions rather than the sound recordings.

I agree that TT hasn't always made 100% sense. People are like that, and he has other gifts than making sense all the time. You have to try to understand. That of course doesn't mean you should be too afraid of saying what you think.

Ragehead91 wrote:What bugs me is that TT tried to sue Kotipelto for the using of "Hunting High and Low" on "Battle of the Choirs" but doesn't care about the DBZ Bodukai thing or the Lil Wayne song.

That is actually not true. The argument was between me and Finnish MTV 4, not me and TK. I just thought they should have asked me too, that's all.
Other than that, although there are some people who think you cannot change your mind, I have since then rethought this and much of other issues as well and I think if I would be TK, I naturally would have used a Strato song as well.
I wish nothing but good for him.

JensJohansson wrote:

Ragehead91 wrote:What bugs me is that TT tried to sue Kotipelto for the using of "Hunting High and Low" on "Battle of the Choirs" but doesn't care about the DBZ Bodukai thing or the Lil Wayne song.

The Lil Wayne thing is complicated legally.

I remember watching a report about German rapper Bushido using music from Dimmu Borgir, american gothic band Nox Arcana, Antimatter and frensh band Dark Sanctuary. Dimmu Borgir never brought a case and Animatter settled befor any legal action was taken but those other 2 bands sued him.

Edit: Actually, Bushido had to pay money to Dimmu Borgir.

Edit 2: I'm not saying you should sue him. I'm just saying that you could win if you would.

yep, when I played DBZ Budokai 2 for the first time (great game, btw!) I clearly noticed that the intro music sounded really a lot like some Strato stuffs but I wouldn't call that plagia or whatever.

Now after checking that video (it contains some DBZ songs I haven't heard before), it sounds like the similaries are a bit more than just a coincidence. Besides, it's not just one song, it's 3...

I'd say Tolkki sue them.

Regarding Lil Wayne, I am just gonna say he has good taste in what samples he uses.

And furthermore, he's probably a guy who is a bit more fun to hang out and party with, than to meet in some court room:

A further inspection found 105 grams (3.7 ounces) of marijuana, 29 grams (1 ounce) of cocaine, 41 grams (1.45 ounces) of ecstasy and more than $22,000, agents said.

Also recovered was a .40 caliber pistol registered to Carter in Florida and authorities were checking to determine whether he broke any gun laws, said Ramona Sanchez, a Drug Enforcement Administration spokeswoman in Phoenix.

http://www.reuters.com/article/peopleNe ... 1420080123

JensJohansson wrote:Regarding Lil Wayne, I am just gonna say he has good taste in what samples he uses.

But still. He and many other Rappers do that without asking the original artist of the samples. That is just not right.