Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

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Raven
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Raven » Wed May 20, 2009 6:16 pm

TimoTolkki wrote: This also works the other way around. Whenever I write something negative about Stratovarius, it seems like it's the end of the world for Stratovarius fans.
It's almost like a religious attitude towards something that cannot be criticized.
Ok, here we go again. Tell me Timo, when have you wrote something positive about this new Stratovarius? Always just some scandalous shit time after time just to create havoc and problems for TK, JM, JJ, LP and MK and move interest to yourself. And after that you are asking why people are turning against you? You underestimated this new Stratovarius line-up and their talent to make music, you have underestimated Stratovarius fans for several years and that goes on and on although you're in deep downfall. That's very sad.
It's also a bit weird since the guys are playing songs I composed and most of you loved/love:)
At least they're trying to handle those songs that have been very dear to me for long time with the way they should be handled: With respect and dignity.
Then again, if for example TK makes interviews bashing me or Jörg thinks I "sold the band", that's okay.
It's not okay, but those things that have beem said are quite little comparing your childish webshow that have been going on since 2004. Get one good look to the mirror and stop being a crybaby.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Wed May 20, 2009 6:27 pm

TimoTolkki wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:I'm not saying that Tolkki should've praised the album. He is entitled to have his opinion but the thing is as soon as he says something that is just a bit negative about Strato everyone who is "on his side" starts to bash Strato and create new drama. It is a weird situation.
This also works the other way around. Whenever I write something negative about Stratovarius, it seems like it's the end of the world for Stratovarius fans.
It's almost like a religious attitude towards something that cannot be criticized.
It's also a bit weird since the guys are playing songs I composed and most of you loved/love:)
Then again, if for example TK makes interviews bashing me or Jörg thinks I "sold the band", that's okay.
I do reserve the right to be wrong:) and right for expression of opinion without being attacked or called with names.


You know it's not like that. About the things that happened in 2007 it seemed that you have your opinions and TK, JM and JJ had theirs. those were personal matters among you and everybody bashed everybody (i'm talking about you 4). I stayed away of that

but now we are talking about MUSIC and the position that you as a musician should have (and musicians in general) towards other musicians. You can dislike the album, but your pseudo review was just unrespectful. Good that the guys didn't thank you in the booklet


When the album was released many members of this forum expressed not having liked the album very much, including my friend here Ragehead91, and I didn't reply anything to anybody


It is just pissing to see your resentful comments and just below looking "The key to the universe is love". I hope you find that key someday.

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emperor_black
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Wed May 20, 2009 6:34 pm

The Enigma wrote:Com'on, I don't think anyone has to take Timo's opinion as a personal attack. He is well entitled to say his view about Polaris like we all do. Actually he did not say anythng bad about the CD.
He said that the songs are empty shells. That sounds really bad to me, if you ask me.

but of course, it's only his opinion.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Morgana » Wed May 20, 2009 6:35 pm

emperor_black wrote:but now we are talking about MUSIC and the position that you as a musician should have (and musicians in general) towards other musicians. You can dislike the album, but your pseudo review was just unrespectful. Good that the guys didn't thank you in the booklet
I think he cannot be absolutely objective because he knows all Stratoguys personally.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Wed May 20, 2009 6:42 pm

Morgana wrote:
emperor_black wrote:but now we are talking about MUSIC and the position that you as a musician should have (and musicians in general) towards other musicians. You can dislike the album, but your pseudo review was just unrespectful. Good that the guys didn't thank you in the booklet
I think he cannot be absolutely objective because he knows all Stratoguys personally.
to me it's not like.. being objective; when talking about arts I think it's difficult. I'm just talking about respect for his previous bandmates that have always respected his music and now taking the writing duties. It's politeness

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by NeonVomit » Wed May 20, 2009 6:42 pm

TimoTolkki wrote: I do reserve the right to be wrong:) and right for expression of opinion without being attacked or called with names.
Exactly. Chill out people.
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Noxica » Wed May 20, 2009 6:43 pm

emperor_black wrote:I hope you find that key someday.
Or failing that, a locksmith :lol:


Seriously Timo...it's all been said. All I and a lot of other people can see now is a guy who can't or won't move on. Yes, you disapprove of 'new' Stratovarius. We get that. Stop hanging round these forums trying to stir things up again, because no-one needs this shit. I've only recently got into Strato, and this is already irritating me, so God alone knows what it's doing to Jens and the others.

Just do us - and yourself - a favour and let it go. The only person who comes out of this looking bad is YOU. Not Jens, not Kotipelto, not Lauri, not Jorg, and certainly not Matias. You signed the rights to the name over, you've made it very clear that you now regret that decision and you've made it equally clear that you disapprove of the new band, now drop it.

And as for dressing your stirring up as valid musical criticism (which, as a press writer, I'm actually quite offended by), remember that no matter much you sweeten poison and call it sugar, it's still poison.
Tin coffepots, iron coffeepots
They're no use to me
If I can't have a proper cuppa coffee from a proper copper coffeepot
I'll have a cuppa tea!

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by TimoTolkki » Wed May 20, 2009 6:44 pm

Morgana wrote:
emperor_black wrote:but now we are talking about MUSIC and the position that you as a musician should have (and musicians in general) towards other musicians. You can dislike the album, but your pseudo review was just unrespectful. Good that the guys didn't thank you in the booklet
I think he cannot be absolutely objective because he knows all Stratoguys personally.
But it's just what it is. My review of Polaris, nothing more, nothing less.
Its not a "pseudo review". Its my opinion. I am not attacking anybody who thinks its good:) But I am attacked because I write a negative review about it.
That's really weird:)
We will see how long this band lives because its fate will be tested with a far bigger amount of people than those in Great Britain. Neither by 50 people in internet forum.
So those of you who thinks this is Stratovarius and likes Polaris, by all means enjoy yourselves:) Don't let me "destroy" your fun. Or call me with names just because I write something "negative" about a band you like.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Wed May 20, 2009 6:50 pm

Actually, the best critics are the ones who find a flaw. They are the ones who tell you where you need to improve.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by _Pepe_ » Wed May 20, 2009 6:52 pm

For me POLARIS is a great album, and i don't Fuc**** care if anybody dosn't like it xD

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Wed May 20, 2009 6:52 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
TimoTolkki wrote: I do reserve the right to be wrong:) and right for expression of opinion without being attacked or called with names.
Exactly. Chill out people.

Yeah, at least it's time for me to take a chill pill

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Noxica » Wed May 20, 2009 6:54 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:Actually, the best critics are the ones who find a flaw. They are the ones who tell you where you need to improve.
If that was aimed at me, that wasn't what I was saying. I was pointing out that dressing up a personal feud and accompanying vitriol up as musical criticism doesn't actually make it musical criticism, any more than it makes it a elephant in a hula skirt.
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Wed May 20, 2009 6:54 pm

Noxica wrote:
NeverendingAbyss wrote:Actually, the best critics are the ones who find a flaw. They are the ones who tell you where you need to improve.
If that was aimed at me, that wasn't what I was saying. I was pointing out that dressing up a personal feud and accompanying vitriol up as musical criticism doesn't actually make it musical criticism, any more than it makes it a elephant in a hula skirt.
Nah, it wasn't aimed at you. It was in general. :)
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by icecab21 » Wed May 20, 2009 6:58 pm

He is just saying the same thing other people are saying about it, yet since its tolkki people make all these assumptions.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by rikkertje » Wed May 20, 2009 6:59 pm

I think everybody has his own opinion and it's fine. But what you say here is a little weird:
TimoTolkki wrote:So those of you who thinks this is Stratovarius and likes Polaris, by all means enjoy yourselves:)
This IS Stratovarius! There's no denying that! It doesn't matter what people think! THIS IS STRATOVARIUS NOW!!! And you'll have to accept that. :)

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Wed May 20, 2009 6:59 pm

Noxica wrote: remember that no matter how much you sweeten poison and call it sugar, it's still poison.
:wink:

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by rikkertje » Wed May 20, 2009 7:03 pm

Noxica wrote:Just do us - and yourself - a favour and let it go. The only person who comes out of this looking bad is YOU. Not Jens, not Kotipelto, not Lauri, not Jorg, and certainly not Matias. You signed the rights to the name over, you've made it very clear that you now regret that decision and you've made it equally clear that you disapprove of the new band, now drop it.
Yes!!! This is exactly how it is! I hope you read this TT! :)

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Wed May 20, 2009 7:05 pm

rikkertje wrote:
Noxica wrote:Just do us - and yourself - a favour and let it go. The only person who comes out of this looking bad is YOU. Not Jens, not Kotipelto, not Lauri, not Jorg, and certainly not Matias. You signed the rights to the name over, you've made it very clear that you now regret that decision and you've made it equally clear that you disapprove of the new band, now drop it.
Yes!!! This is exactly how it is! I hope you read this TT! :)
JESUS CHRIST IT'S JUST A REVIEW!!! IT'S NOT A TERRORIST ATTACK!
sheesh... :|
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by TimoTolkki » Wed May 20, 2009 7:05 pm

Seriously Timo...it's all been said. All I and a lot of other people can see now is a guy who can't or won't move on. Yes, you disapprove of 'new' Stratovarius.


I actually just wrote my opinion about one record...
We get that.
I in generally dont like "we" sentences, but who are "we"?
Stop hanging round these forums trying to stir things up again, because no-one needs this shit. I've only recently got into Strato, and this is already irritating me, so God alone knows what it's doing to Jens and the others.
So not only I shouldnt say my opinion, I should also "stay away from these forums"? :) wow
Just do us - and yourself - a favour and let it go. The only person who comes out of this looking bad is YOU. Not Jens, not Kotipelto, not Lauri, not Jorg, and certainly not Matias. You signed the rights to the name over, you've made it very clear that you now regret that decision and you've made it equally clear that you disapprove of the new band, now drop it.
Looking bad because I say my opinion??? I don't regeret that I gave away the rights. Neither I regret that I left. I am very happy with my life and Revolution Renaissance.
And as for dressing your stirring up as valid musical criticism (which, as a press writer, I'm actually quite offended by), remember that no matter much you sweeten poison and call it sugar, it's still poison.
Well I do think I am more "qualified" to write a Stratovarius record review than you:) ehm, if you know what I mean, but since you are using "we" sentence, then probably you think I am not.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Burning Reflection » Wed May 20, 2009 7:08 pm

emperor_black wrote:

It is just pissing to see your resentful comments and just below looking "The key to the universe is love". I hope you find that key someday.
See that's the thing, he has the key, but sometimes loses it as we all do. He is human; he is not faith or love itself, but an instrument of it.
Kyrie Elieson wrote:

High above lies, cradle of our hearts
Show me the way in the valley of the dark
Lord have mercy, don't let me go
Stay with me til the end of time
I really believe that these feelings come from the heart, he wishes that he can keep the light all the time, but unfortunately that's not always the case.

All of those years up to 04 have been nothing but positive, self empowering, loving messages that have changed many lives for the better and I'm sure he's done good things that we haven't seen up until now too. It's hard to move on and leave such vested interests behind and start anew and I feel empathy for his situation. I guess the best thing we can do is not become resentful towards him and also learn how to love and forgive. I know Timo does bad things sometimes, but he is truly good at heart.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Wed May 20, 2009 7:17 pm

TimoTolkki wrote:

Looking bad because I say my opinion???

Actually some kind of opinions often make people look bad.


example:

If I say that discriminating "black" people is good it does make me look bad, doesn't it? yes it does.

but of course, this example is a far too "extreme".

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Lurdi » Wed May 20, 2009 7:22 pm

TimoTolkki wrote:But it's just what it is. My review of Polaris, nothing more, nothing less.
Its not a "pseudo review". Its my opinion. I am not attacking anybody who thinks its good:) But I am attacked because I write a negative review about it.
That's really weird:)
We will see how long this band lives because its fate will be tested with a far bigger amount of people than those in Great Britain. Neither by 50 people in internet forum.
So those of you who thinks this is Stratovarius and likes Polaris, by all means enjoy yourselves:) Don't let me "destroy" your fun. Or call me with names just because I write something "negative" about a band you like.
There is nothing wrong in saying positive or negative opinions about things, as far as they are always said politely. I am not saying you said them impolitely, funnily I was anxiously expecting your review in the same way I read Jens' about AoA. I think you are mainly irritated by TK and Jörg's interviews. I truly believe they were made a long before you became friends again.
It's just music, and people are happy with everyday news. People were happy and anxious when RR was about to release AoA, now when Strato has released their new one, and of course people are enormously happy to know there is an album to be released next fall. Isn't music a reason enough to be happy for?

You wrote:
''We will see how long this band lives because its fate will be tested with a far bigger amount of people than those in Great Britain. Neither by 50 people in internet forum.''
This is so sad. Nobody can know how long a band is going to live.
And that 50 people in an internet forum are also in that far bigger amount of people.
Fans must always be taken into account, no matter how large the audience is.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by rikkertje » Wed May 20, 2009 7:34 pm

NeverendingAbyss wrote:
rikkertje wrote:
Noxica wrote:Just do us - and yourself - a favour and let it go. The only person who comes out of this looking bad is YOU. Not Jens, not Kotipelto, not Lauri, not Jorg, and certainly not Matias. You signed the rights to the name over, you've made it very clear that you now regret that decision and you've made it equally clear that you disapprove of the new band, now drop it.
Yes!!! This is exactly how it is! I hope you read this TT! :)
JESUS CHRIST IT'S JUST A REVIEW!!! IT'S NOT A TERRORIST ATTACK!
sheesh... :|
I understand that. And I respect his review! And I respect his opinion. But now it's enough. We know he doesn't like it. He said that he didn't want to have anything to do with Stratovarius ever again. So now it's time for him to let it go. And go on with RR.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Wed May 20, 2009 7:34 pm

Burning Reflection wrote: ...but he is truly good at heart.
Yeah.. I think you're right.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by icecab21 » Wed May 20, 2009 7:43 pm

Timo wrote a little oppinion about one album in a forum. People then spread that like wildfire and act as if tolkki is spreading it like wildfire.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Lurdi » Wed May 20, 2009 8:02 pm

icecab21 wrote:Timo wrote a little oppinion about one album in a forum. People then spread that like wildfire and act as if tolkki is spreading it like wildfire.
It always happens. If someone writes something in this forum there is always somebody to put the news in the RR forum and vice versa, which is stupid in my opinion. If you want to read something you know where to go, everybody knows where each forum is.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by En extremt tråkig pe » Wed May 20, 2009 8:03 pm

CES wrote: Really, it makes for a fascinating study on the pettiness of music fans though I'm sure any musician is more than familiar with that.
Musicians aren't immune to that either as this little collection of thinly veiled digs dressed up as objective comments illustrates. "A guy who played just 2 tours", that's nice. Lauri still managed to come up with better material than TT has in a decade :) Just an opinion of course.

But hey the production is good! Of course, Karmila hasn't left you behind and shown you're not quite as indispensable as you thought you were so he can get credit :idea:

Worry more about how long your current band will live, imo. Good luck with the tour :)
Innebandy är en fånig sport

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by TimoTolkki » Wed May 20, 2009 8:07 pm

En extremt tråkig person wrote:
CES wrote: Really, it makes for a fascinating study on the pettiness of music fans though I'm sure any musician is more than familiar with that.
Musicians aren't immune to that either as this little collection of thinly veiled digs dressed up as objective comments illustrates. "A guy who played just 2 tours", that's nice. Lauri still managed to come up with better material than TT has in a decade :) Just an opinion of course.

But hey the production is good! Of course, Karmila hasn't left you behind and shown you're not quite as indispensable as you thought you were so he can get credit :idea:

Worry more about how long your current band will live, imo. Good luck with the tour :)
Thanks:) But it really is just an opinion. Like I said, the fans are the ones that decide, not me. And looking at #2 chart position in Finland, they do like it so that is great:) That position is not easy to achieve. It seems things are as they should be.

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It's a shame

Post by lalodrums2 » Wed May 20, 2009 8:18 pm

I can't believe who TT is :( More disappointments to me :(

Honestly, I'm sad. Never thought he would be like this and speaking like this, doing arguments, trying to fight with strato members, etc. Wow that's what I call "negativism" :( So sad.

I wonder if he really wrote those beautiful songs of stratovarius in the past because they have nothing to do with his attitude :(

Wondering how long is this band going to live? You better ask yourself about RR such a bad copy of Angra. (because angra is great)

Sad, sad, sad.

I really hope you'll find that key.

With those aggressions you'll generate aggressions, never peace. That's not a very smart choice.

Peace and love to TT.

I'm really disillusioned. I think Jens should ban him to avoid this negative vibes in the future in our "50 people" forums.

P.S. GO STRATOVARIUS!!!! HIGHER YOU'LL GO!!!!!
...

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by stratoleo » Wed May 20, 2009 8:18 pm

Blablablablabla and more blablabalablabla....
Stratovarius is the best band in the world

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