Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

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stratodan1990
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by stratodan1990 » Thu May 21, 2009 2:55 pm

I didn't mind his review, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. And of course people we're going to have some kinda reaction, he was their guitarist for 23 years, combine that with some negativity and of course someone is going to jump in the air about it. I didn't agree with the 'fate' thing he said, because the 'fate' of any band isnt decided just from the 'amount of fans', theres more to the fans than just that, as many know.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Bublix » Thu May 21, 2009 3:32 pm

Jabi wrote:
Bublix wrote:If you don´t like Timo´s review, do not read it.
If someone doesn't like it (s)he probably has already read it. :D
Well, sorry, it sounds logical now :D

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Oceanids » Thu May 21, 2009 3:45 pm

And of course people we're going to have some kinda reaction, he was their guitarist for 23 years, combine that with some negativity and of course someone is going to jump in the air about it.
Sorry but he was a bit more than "their guitarist" for 23 years.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by stratodan1990 » Thu May 21, 2009 3:47 pm

Oceanids wrote:
And of course people we're going to have some kinda reaction, he was their guitarist for 23 years, combine that with some negativity and of course someone is going to jump in the air about it.
Sorry but he was a bit more than "their guitarist" for 23 years.
I know. He also played bass parts for Twilight time and so on, I know that. You get what I mean though, hopefully.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu May 21, 2009 4:27 pm

Jabi wrote:
Bublix wrote:If you don´t like Timo´s review, do not read it.
If someone doesn't like it (s)he probably has already read it. :D
+5

Yeah, how is anyone going to know what someone writes unless they do read it? :D

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Oceanids » Thu May 21, 2009 5:08 pm

stratodan1990 wrote:
Oceanids wrote:
And of course people we're going to have some kinda reaction, he was their guitarist for 23 years, combine that with some negativity and of course someone is going to jump in the air about it.
Sorry but he was a bit more than "their guitarist" for 23 years.
I know. He also played bass parts for Twilight time and so on, I know that. You get what I mean though, hopefully.
I'm afraid you don't get what I mean. One negative review is not gonna take away the legacy of Tolkki from Stratovarius although your post so indicates. It's a bit more than that.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Beast_Pete » Thu May 21, 2009 6:03 pm

I don't think the matter right now is wether anyone is trying to take away Tolkki's legacy in Stratovarius or not. He was the biggest factor in the band's success but also was the downside at the end as he himself pointed it out. I started not feeling too much creativity in his composing after a while, Elements Part I is one my favourite albums, but to be honest it already showed some lack of creativity. Creativity as in finding new ways, taking new directions. Until that point the band was progressing and was always diversing. But the Elements Pt II and especially the black Stratovarius album were failing in showing new ways and the music wasn't that interesting anymore as on the old albums.

The RR album had some great songs but again it lacked the freshness. And then the non-Stratovarius version of it was something I didn't really like. It had the Stratovarius sound in terms of instruments, but the singers' voice... they weren't Stratovarius. It was Kotipelto who brought the real sound of the band with his unique voice and style of singing and even if someone is a better singer than he is, noone is better at singing Stratovarius songs.

Tolkki has a right to give a review to the new album. He even has the right to give a negative review. And I understand his points. Stratovarius sounds different than how he feels Strato should be sounding. But as he also pointed out, it's the fans who will decide and they decided that the new album does complete the whole Stratovarius history and starts a new chapter in the big book.
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And...

Post by lalodrums2 » Thu May 21, 2009 6:18 pm

Beast_Pete wrote:I don't think the matter right now is wether anyone is trying to take away Tolkki's legacy in Stratovarius or not. He was the biggest factor in the band's success but also was the downside at the end as he himself pointed it out. I started not feeling too much creativity in his composing after a while, Elements Part I is one my favourite albums, but to be honest it already showed some lack of creativity. Creativity as in finding new ways, taking new directions. Until that point the band was progressing and was always diversing. But the Elements Pt II and especially the black Stratovarius album were failing in showing new ways and the music wasn't that interesting anymore as on the old albums.

The RR album had some great songs but again it lacked the freshness. And then the non-Stratovarius version of it was something I didn't really like. It had the Stratovarius sound in terms of instruments, but the singers' voice... they weren't Stratovarius. It was Kotipelto who brought the real sound of the band with his unique voice and style of singing and even if someone is a better singer than he is, noone is better at singing Stratovarius songs.

Tolkki has a right to give a review to the new album. He even has the right to give a negative review. And I understand his points. Stratovarius sounds different than how he feels Strato should be sounding. But as he also pointed out, it's the fans who will decide and they decided that the new album does complete the whole Stratovarius history and starts a new chapter in the big book.
Totally agree, and don't forget about what else they decided... "hit #2 on the Finnish album charts"

Stratovarius, higher and higher they go! :)
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by icecab21 » Thu May 21, 2009 7:50 pm

charts are interesting, some people seemed pissed when saint anger went to number one and then the charts don't matter, but if they like the stuff all of a sudden ooo look at the charts.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by palarmux » Thu May 21, 2009 7:59 pm

Did Tolkki say anything, I love Polaris! :) It's best album for a long time

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Lurdi » Thu May 21, 2009 8:06 pm

:fail: :fail: :fail: :fail: :fail: :fail:

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Thu May 21, 2009 8:14 pm

:fail: :fail: :fail: :fail: :fail: :fail:

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Polaris » Thu May 21, 2009 8:34 pm

palarmux wrote:Did Tolkki say anything, I love Polaris! :) It's best album for a long time
Ow thank You I'm very happy that you love me :lol:

Polaris Rules :D

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by hiro23 » Thu May 21, 2009 8:56 pm

Either way I really think we are spending way too much time dwelling on this, there are so many better things in life.

Let's just go and listen to the great music we are being offered this year from three very great bands:Stratovarius,Revolution Renaissance and Project Strato.
metal feeds the beast

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by stratodan1990 » Thu May 21, 2009 9:17 pm

Oceanids wrote:
stratodan1990 wrote:
Oceanids wrote:
And of course people we're going to have some kinda reaction, he was their guitarist for 23 years, combine that with some negativity and of course someone is going to jump in the air about it.
Sorry but he was a bit more than "their guitarist" for 23 years.
I know. He also played bass parts for Twilight time and so on, I know that. You get what I mean though, hopefully.
I'm afraid you don't get what I mean. One negative review is not gonna take away the legacy of Tolkki from Stratovarius although your post so indicates. It's a bit more than that.
:? :? Of course not. I do understand what you mean completely. Tolkki wrote 95% of 23 year material, of course nothing will take away that legacy. My comment wasn't about his 'legacy'. What I simply meant was that Polaris has shown there has been a step in the right/positive direction since the departure of Tolkki, as he said so himself. And you can see that they have revived their sound since the self titled album and Elements part 2.
Beast_Pete wrote:I don't think the matter right now is wether anyone is trying to take away Tolkki's legacy in Stratovarius or not. He was the biggest factor in the band's success but also was the downside at the end as he himself pointed it out. I started not feeling too much creativity in his composing after a while, Elements Part I is one my favourite albums, but to be honest it already showed some lack of creativity. Creativity as in finding new ways, taking new directions. Until that point the band was progressing and was always diversing. But the Elements Pt II and especially the black Stratovarius album were failing in showing new ways and the music wasn't that interesting anymore as on the old albums.

The RR album had some great songs but again it lacked the freshness. And then the non-Stratovarius version of it was something I didn't really like. It had the Stratovarius sound in terms of instruments, but the singers' voice... they weren't Stratovarius. It was Kotipelto who brought the real sound of the band with his unique voice and style of singing and even if someone is a better singer than he is, noone is better at singing Stratovarius songs.

Tolkki has a right to give a review to the new album. He even has the right to give a negative review. And I understand his points. Stratovarius sounds different than how he feels Strato should be sounding. But as he also pointed out, it's the fans who will decide and they decided that the new album does complete the whole Stratovarius history and starts a new chapter in the big book.
+ 3,000,000

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by browneyedgirl » Thu May 21, 2009 9:26 pm

Please stop with those stupid big emoticons! This thread is NOT a failure. There is nothing wrong with discussing, or disagreeing about an issue. :buh:

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Lurdi » Thu May 21, 2009 9:28 pm

:)































:fail:

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by stratodan1990 » Thu May 21, 2009 9:33 pm

Image

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Fri May 22, 2009 1:10 am

Hmmmmm,

While I disagree with TT in like, a million things, strangely I agree with him on lots of others too.

His review of Polaris is as valid as any other and should be respected. He said it's his opinion so cut him some slack. Perhaps he can't be objective but ffs give him a break. In the end why do you give a fukk?

I think he gets a lot of shit from Stratofans lately but unfairly so to an extent. Ok, I used to hate him a lot too, he has definitely been an ass often but fukk me, he's written songs, albums and played music which is classic today. And no matter how big headed I think he might be, he is actually very humble and shy with the fans. And he was very seldom in the spotlight.

How many other famous musicians do you know who interact with fans the way him or Jens do? He does get involved a lot with the fans. Albeit in messed up ways some times.

Also credit to him for telling it how it is regarding Elements Pt 2 and the self-titled album. I still like Elements Pt 2 but "Stratovarius" is unlistenable (I'm trying hard not to say it's shit:-)). Wait, I am actually saying it. It's shit.

Kinda he's like a split personality with his own issues but after all these years I've come to respect him very much. Maybe understand him too cos I'been through some difficult shit myself too.

I started to warm to his RR AoA album lately and of course I like Polaris too.

I hope both bands get to have a long future ahead of them, sort any financial or legal shit between them and if anything create good music again.

PS - On second read, I think TT is being quite an ass here again but somehow I am really perfectly happy to read what he has to say. Its interesting. His review is still ok with me, I've seen a lot worse.
Black Metal is the game I play cos' no one shows me the right way...

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Totally shit!

Post by Crazyniel » Fri May 22, 2009 1:30 am

Well, I'm reading this now in my home, I saw what Timo Tolkki wrote on RR forum, but it was his opinion, but TT doesn't understand that every time he speaks 'bout Strato always is a disaster leading to a drama funcking thing. Well, TT I really liked the musics you did, it's true, but if you gave up the band, just let the others guys play a new kind of music (remeber Angra before with Andre Matos and after with Edu Falaschi).
I really enjoyed the band with you, but now are two bands to listen, there are the guys who will enjoy more the new Strato, guys that still enjoy the old Strato and guys that enjoy RR.
Think 'bout a thing. If JJ posted a positively review of your album, it was expected that you simple DON'T PUT A NEGATIVELY REVIEW ABOUT THE ALBUM. If you don't like, it's okay, we understand, but you're talking that the new Strato won't continue, that people will not like. And afterall, doing this you're only losing some fans that you have from the past. I only expect now a good excuse to us the fans, not to Strato, to us that like the other StratoMembers.
Like now this forum it's a opinion box, I don't know why Jens Johansson post positively things about you, I would be hate you, but like I said, it's my opinion, and at least I'm nobody and I don't hate you. But think 'bout what I said.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Rebel » Fri May 22, 2009 7:00 am

Bathory Killcraft wrote: Also credit to him for telling it how it is regarding Elements Pt 2 and the self-titled album. I still like Elements Pt 2 but "Stratovarius" is unlistenable (I'm trying hard not to say it's shit:-)). Wait, I am actually saying it. It's shit.
I have to wholeheartedly 100% disagree with this statement.
There are SOME bad songs on "Stratovarius", however, they are largely dwarfed by some of the greatest masterpieces Stratovarius has written.
In particular, there is a chilling darkness to "Back to Madness" and "Gottermadarung", and I absolutely LOVE IT, to me, Power Metal means emotion, and it feels like Tolkki and Kotipelto are expressing something in these songs that is simply extraordinary (I say Tolkki and Kotipelto, because despite all the tension in the band, it feels like Kotipelto is truly a vessel to what Tolkki wrote into the songs).

Maniac Dance is a ride of pure metal mayhem, It's a hard rocking, crunchy, motherfucker that tells all the people who use the term "Flower Metal" instead of "Power Metal" to screw off.

Fight!!! is the Stratovarius Anthem of the record, and for those who spent the years criticizing Jorg of a one trick hat, he truly lays down a legendary performance on the skins, devoid of the Double Bass drums that, although necessary to many songs, has grown a tired act over the years. Kotipelto again, is an incredible vessel to what Tolkki wrote into the music. Just Carry On is a similar Stratovarius Anthem, that expresses who Stratovarius are as a band, in a completely different musical manner.

I hear people say that "When Mountains Fall is the best ballad since Forever", but it is a snub to the beautiful, touching "The Land of Ice and Snow", devoid of the usual string orchestra needed for "Beauty" in ballads, with Jorg's powerful drums, Jens' sensibilities on synth, it's just a shame that they couldn't get Lauri Porra, with Jean Sibelius' blood running through him, to record a bass part for it.

As For Leave the Tribe, Gypsy In Me, and United, They are solid filler, but nothing that stands out, except the small irony in United that while Jari K. is prominently featured, he would not remain "United" even long enough to see the album's release.

To me, the self titled record is a statement that at that time, Stratovarius as a band was not bound to any one principal or style of music, and that they could convey their music in any number of ways.

And yes, you are entitled to your opinion, I just wanted to provide the first instance of a positive review of the self titled album in stratoforum history.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by hiro23 » Fri May 22, 2009 8:46 am

Actually I agree with you rebel, I thought it was a great album. I respect the fact that others may not like it, even the composer himself doesn't like it.

However I still think it's full of some great songs, the only one I thought was out of place was Maniac dance, but that doesn't mean I hate the song, just thought it was different.
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by DavEcliptica » Fri May 22, 2009 11:17 am

tolkki wrote: "trying to copy Stratovarius but doesn't succeed very well in it"

ahahahahahahahahahah this is very interesting if i think that INTO THE FUTURE from age of aquarius album is a COPY of Victoria's Secret by Sonata Arctica
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by lalodrums2 » Fri May 22, 2009 12:19 pm

DavEcliptica wrote:tolkki wrote: "trying to copy Stratovarius but doesn't succeed very well in it"

ahahahahahahahahahah this is very interesting if i think that INTO THE FUTURE from age of aquarius album is a COPY of Victoria's Secret by Sonata Arctica
hahaha you are right!!
...

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by stratodan1990 » Fri May 22, 2009 12:38 pm

DavEcliptica wrote:tolkki wrote: "trying to copy Stratovarius but doesn't succeed very well in it"

ahahahahahahahahahah this is very interesting if i think that INTO THE FUTURE from age of aquarius album is a COPY of Victoria's Secret by Sonata Arctica
Yeah. Even New Era songs like 'Heroes', you could say that the solo from this song tries to copy 'Against The Wind' solo, but doesn't succeed very well in it.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Ragehead91 » Fri May 22, 2009 1:16 pm

stratodan1990 wrote:
DavEcliptica wrote:tolkki wrote: "trying to copy Stratovarius but doesn't succeed very well in it"

ahahahahahahahahahah this is very interesting if i think that INTO THE FUTURE from age of aquarius album is a COPY of Victoria's Secret by Sonata Arctica
Yeah. Even New Era songs like 'Heroes', you could say that the solo from this song tries to copy 'Against The Wind' solo, but doesn't succeed very well in it.
The whole New Era Album is basicly Episode/Visions worshipping but it doesn't even come close to the original albums.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Fuuso » Fri May 22, 2009 1:22 pm

This reminds me of the neverending Megadeth vs Metallica debate. Does it really matter to you what Tolkki thinks of the album? His opinion doesn't have to match other people's opinions. I don't think he wants to bash the band. I believe he has some more important things to do.
At first I didn't like RR just because it wasn't Stratovarius, but now I'm glad that we have two power metal bands making great music.

And will you stop spamming those seals of failure

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by stratowerner » Fri May 22, 2009 4:49 pm

I really like the album,but a few more guitar/keyboard battle would be more then welcome.I hope on the next album.
Imo it's better then the Elements albums.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by M » Fri May 22, 2009 5:17 pm

i'm not touching this one...

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Rebel » Fri May 22, 2009 5:43 pm

hiro23 wrote:Actually I agree with you rebel, I thought it was a great album. I respect the fact that others may not like it, even the composer himself doesn't like it.

However I still think it's full of some great songs, the only one I thought was out of place was Maniac dance, but that doesn't mean I hate the song, just thought it was different.
Maybe it's just the fact that I have a difficult time hating a well put together piece of music performed by Timo Tolkki, Jari K. Timo Kotipelto, Jens Johansson and Jorg Michael, the only real problem was that self titled albums are usually supposed to be definitive, and "Stratovarius" really was a different monster.

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