Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Bathory Killcraft · Post by **Bathory Killcraft** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:16 pm

TimoTolkki wrote:Trust me, it's not about attention:) The success factor, if that is how you want to measure things, will be seen in the next few years, not now.
Nice teddy bear by the way:)

Timo why don't you sort out this shit with the band themselves directly rather you answer to every single fan's crap on the forum? Find a talking formula with them or something.

The "500 records = No 2 on charts" comment is lame. You were congratulating them a while ago about this same thing. Also, by implication, whatever previous strato album made the charts sold shit too.

Just don't bother. You don't need this, you've proven yourself as a musician and composer many a times. Sort out yourself instead.

Take that by someone who is trying hard to sort out himself too. It's more important.

MarkDvdMan · Post by **MarkDvdMan** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:57 pm

Hi guys

Really this hatred thing towards Timo is incredible!

He had an opinion and there are flaws towards what he says but in many cases he is correct. Polaris is not as soulful as what he created. Where are the 'Visions', 'Destiny' and what have you songs? When those wonder lead breaks come in and your heart is so mesmerised it becomes a part of you?

None here at all. I like the album but it is far from great it may appear so but I doubt it.

My opinion is that this is the first album of a new Stratovarius and I feel they can move on. Personally I think they should get a second guitarist in a la Maiden, Priest etc. It will make them a hell of a breed live and more powerful.

It is way too early to tell what the future may bring but Timo you ARE a great. The past was all down to you guys not getting on. I want to see the new Stratovarius hitting the heights again and they can and WILL!!! Stratovarius RULE.

Slate me guys but it again is only an OPINION!

Morgana · Post by **Morgana** » Mon May 25, 2009 8:17 pm

MarkDvdMan, +1000!

FindYourOwnVoice · Post by **FindYourOwnVoice** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:11 pm

MarkDvdMan wrote: Personally I think they should get a second guitarist in a la Maiden, Priest etc. It will make them a hell of a breed live and more powerful.

I go with philosophy that the power should come out of songs and melodies themselves. Not through making things massive by additional electric guitar wall...

Jens' keyboards bring the needed DEPTH that's more of Stratovarius sound, and without saying the awesome added melodicism he provides through his technique and emotional vision!

MarkDvdMan · Post by **MarkDvdMan** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:17 pm

Yes I agree to an extent.

However Remember ONE THING

Stratovarius play metal!

what is metal meant to portray? Heavy and melodic.

when Stratovarius solo, the lack of backing rhythm is VERY noticeable live. It is the old saying - if you cannot do it live do not record it!

THAT is where a second guitarist fills in. Firewind are the same though the keyboardist can cover when not in use.

Being metal - two guitarists should be there every time. Am I wrong? Cannot people see this - look at Metallica they can do live what they record. It makes sense the live situation should make it so. A keyboard is NO replacement for a second guitar!

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:26 pm

It is the old saying - if you cannot do it live do not record it!

Stratovarius has definitely always broken that one. Just by recording three tracks of rhythm guitars breaks that rule..A true statement of only what can be done live is "if it can’t be done with one track per band member, don't do it at all thing". Metallica does not play their songs live the same way they play in the studio because they record more than one track per band member.

Stratovarius is a lot more than a metal band. Songs like forever and when mountains fall contain just vocals, acoustic guitar, and a string section (that of course they can’t play live the way they play in the studio).

MarkDvdMan · Post by **MarkDvdMan** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:35 pm

That really is not true man!!

Of course metal bands overlay guitar tracks. Metallica do well and amon amarth do. You cannot excuse overdubbing rhythm with one guitarist.

Look at Kamelot - it is just the same.

There is no excuse for fooling the listener if they cannot come close live.

Look at fantasia - that is rubbish when the solo is on cos the heavy rhythm is not there.

You can use textures, melody etc but it is abject and wrong. If you record as if you have two guitars then the live show should have it. It is poor and wrong and Maiden are the greatest live band around as they have 3 guitarists! I love stratovarius but one guitar does not do the live show justice!

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:59 pm

I don’t think I have heard of a band losing fans for having two guitarists, and they can only add fans that need the two guitarists to like it better, but the band really has to decide with chemistry and financial issues. I’m sure bands would love to just have a whole orchestra and choir with them at all times but there are sacrifices that must be made. I think no matter what though that a live experience will always be different than a cd and that is one of the reasons I go to live concerts. Live performances also don't have the same mixes that they use in studios and I would consider mixing part of the art of song making and a big part of what makes a song.

Ragehead91 · Post by **Ragehead91** » Mon May 25, 2009 10:08 pm

icecab21 wrote:I don’t think I have heard of a band losing fans for having two guitarists, and they can only add fans that need the two guitarists to like it better, but the band really has to decide with chemistry and financial issues. I’m sure bands would love to just have a whole orchestra and choir with them at all times but there are sacrifices that must be made. I think no matter what though that a live experience will always be different than a cd and that is one of the reasons I go to live concerts. Live performances also don't have the same mixes that they use in studios and I would consider mixing part of the art of song making and a big part of what makes a song.

Indeed. I mean, going to the concert and hearing the exact same thing as on CD would be sort of boring, right? Also, I never had a problem with Strato not having 2 guitarists. Listen to Visions over Europe. A great concert! No need for a 2nd guitarist. Or have you ever listened to the both Rage DVDs with only Victor Smolski? Or the "POwer of Metal" live sampler with only Manni Schmidt? It sounds great!

MarkDvdMan · Post by **MarkDvdMan** » Mon May 25, 2009 10:18 pm

Ok guys you make seeing a live act a joke!

Yes live is not like the cd but 2 guitar outfits play the rhythm live that is on record and makes it heavy live!

How can you say one guitar is fine. It is but if they cannot do it live it is crap!

Maiden, Priest, Metallica etc do it live BECAUSE of the rhythm

It is inexplicable to say it is good enough live!

Even Marillion use the vocalist as a second guitarist if necessary. We are talking METAL

I am talking heavy

Stratovarius sound EMPTY on solos. You are either liars or deluded if you think that is ok!

It is not fair on fans to have a single guitarist with an empty solo!

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Mon May 25, 2009 10:19 pm

I will say that I like two guitarists better than one and when there can be rhythm and guitar leads at the same time, but it does not ruin a performance for me when they just have one. More performers never really hurt a performance.

there are plenty of people that like the music for more than the rythem guitar.

Burning Reflection · Post by **Burning Reflection** » Mon May 25, 2009 10:20 pm

MarkDvdMan wrote:Hi guys

Really this hatred thing towards Timo is incredible!

He had an opinion and there are flaws towards what he says but in many cases he is correct. Polaris is not as soulful as what he created. Where are the 'Visions', 'Destiny' and what have you songs? When those wonder lead breaks come in and your heart is so mesmerised it becomes a part of you?

None here at all. I like the album but it is far from great it may appear so but I doubt it.

My opinion is that this is the first album of a new Stratovarius and I feel they can move on. Personally I think they should get a second guitarist in a la Maiden, Priest etc. It will make them a hell of a breed live and more powerful.

It is way too early to tell what the future may bring but Timo you ARE a great. The past was all down to you guys not getting on. I want to see the new Stratovarius hitting the heights again and they can and WILL!!! Stratovarius RULE.

Slate me guys but it again is only an OPINION!

I don't think that hiring a second guitarist will bring back the soul. It was already there with one for 20+ years

FindYourOwnVoice · Post by **FindYourOwnVoice** » Mon May 25, 2009 10:32 pm

Also for example Iron Maiden don't use double bass drumming for even mentioning compared to Strato.... So, Steve Harris many times rumbles with his bass to give the same effect.

So as the drumming is not so intensive by playing style, Maiden's 2nd electric guitar is alright for it's long note backing etc. And the Keyboards in Maiden just because of this, don't fit in...

Ragehead91 · Post by **Ragehead91** » Mon May 25, 2009 11:00 pm

MarkDvdMan wrote:Ok guys you make seeing a live act a joke!

Yes live is not like the cd but 2 guitar outfits play the rhythm live that is on record and makes it heavy live!

How can you say one guitar is fine. It is but if they cannot do it live it is crap!

Maiden, Priest, Metallica etc do it live BECAUSE of the rhythm

It is inexplicable to say it is good enough live!

Even Marillion use the vocalist as a second guitarist if necessary. We are talking METAL

I am talking heavy

Stratovarius sound EMPTY on solos. You are either liars or deluded if you think that is ok!

It is not fair on fans to have a single guitarist with an empty solo!

Sorry, this is just bullshit. Many bands have worked with only 1 guitarist over years and are still succesfull until this day and I've never heard any fan saying they feel betrayed or that the band sounds empty. Stratovarius, Rage, Grave Digger, Motörhead, Axel Rudi Pell, Axxis, Masterplan, Dio, Black Sabbath just to name a few. Are you saying that all those are lairs?

emperor_black · Post by **emperor_black** » Mon May 25, 2009 11:21 pm

MarkDvdMan wrote:Ok guys you make seeing a live act a joke!

Yes live is not like the cd but 2 guitar outfits play the rhythm live that is on record and makes it heavy live!

How can you say one guitar is fine. It is but if they cannot do it live it is crap!

Maiden, Priest, Metallica etc do it live BECAUSE of the rhythm

It is inexplicable to say it is good enough live!

Even Marillion use the vocalist as a second guitarist if necessary. We are talking METAL

I am talking heavy

Stratovarius sound EMPTY on solos. You are either liars or deluded if you think that is ok!

It is not fair on fans to have a single guitarist with an empty solo!

most idiotic comment of the week.

and also completely off topic :S

hiro23 · Post by **hiro23** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:18 am

Stratovarius and many other bands are set up this way cause that's what they do, not to sound mean but if they wanted a second guitarist they would have gotten one,The keyboard in Stratovarius plays just as much a role as the guitar does and they trade back and forth.

Deep purple has the same kind of line up Strato does, does this make them a lesser band? Kamelot has this kind of line up? does that make them a lesser band? Rainbow had this kind of lineup,Black Sabbath has it(the keyboardist isn't mentioned but he's there), I literally could go on and on with a ton of bands that have had this kind of line up and are still considered awesome live.

I'm not attacking you, if you like two guitar bands that's perfectly fine, however whether it be a one guitar band or a six guitar band, each band has a way they do things, this does not make them better or worse.

Bathory Killcraft · Post by **Bathory Killcraft** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:36 am

Burning Reflection wrote:I don't think that hiring a second guitarist will bring back the soul. It was already there with one for 20+ years

Ahem...can someone explain to poor yours truly what exactly is this "soul" everyone is mumbling on about here?

Bathory Killcraft · Post by **Bathory Killcraft** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:40 am

MarkDvdMan wrote: Even Marillion use the vocalist as a second guitarist if necessary.

God I can't resist that. Marillion is so shit that it defies belief!

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:35 am

i think james brown is the soul

hiro23 · Post by **hiro23** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:30 am

It almost feels as if people are using this "soul" statement as a way of hating a band and making it somehow sound legit.

A good player is a good player, as icecab has said by writing music alone they are already putting their heart and soul into it, so if you don't like the music just say "I don't like the music" don't hide behind cheap words to try and justify a position you have.

This statement is not directed at anyone in specific, just an observation.

miditek · Post by **miditek** » Wed May 27, 2009 1:08 am

icecab21 wrote:i think james brown is the soul

I don't think that this place is exactly a hot spot for Motown, R&B, or Muscle Shoals rhythm section fans.

And straight blues? Probably not.

Ragehead91 · Post by **Ragehead91** » Wed May 27, 2009 1:47 am

The only thing more funny than reading this is reading threads about Varg Vakernes

hiro23 · Post by **hiro23** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:13 am

That dude scares me

Ragehead91 · Post by **Ragehead91** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:36 am

hiro23 wrote:That dude scares me

Well, I agree. The funny thing about this is the flame-wars between the kvlt Black Metal Fans and everyone else.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:48 am

link to a good forum for this might as well have some fun

Ragehead91 · Post by **Ragehead91** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:50 am

icecab21 wrote:link to a good forum for this might as well have some fun

Well, you don't need a forum actually. Just go on Blabbermout and type "Varg" into the searchbard. The first news is about him beeing free now. Read the comments.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:51 am

blabbermouth is always fun for flame wars

Ragehead91 · Post by **Ragehead91** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:18 am

Quote of the Day:

Hey guys do you think he will kill Euronymous again?

emperor_black · Post by **emperor_black** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:41 am

Ragehead91 wrote:Quote of the Day:
Hey guys do you think he will kill Euronymous again?

not again, please!

Bathory Killcraft · Post by **Bathory Killcraft** » Wed May 27, 2009 5:18 am

It's Varg Vikernes.

Stratovarius Community

Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

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