Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Burning Reflection » Fri May 22, 2009 7:35 pm

I've been reading a lot lately and came across an article that talks about thinking with intergrity. The root of the word intergrity means "interger", "wholeness" or "completeness". The root of the word paradox means "on the side of opinion". So in order to think completely about something with intergrity, one must eventually reach a paradox on the side of all opinion.

I agree that Tolkki's song writing was a little monotonous, but I like his style in writing. I mean listen to songs like speed of light, forever free, no turning back, the rebel, cold winter nights, phoenix, find your own voice, heroes, I did it my way and tell me, albeit they are great songs, that those songs aren't pretty much the same riffs with slight variations repeated over and over. Then you have songs like Eternity, Forever, Destiny, Anthem of the World, Mother Gaia, Million Light Years Away, Infinity, Celestial Dream, Soul of a Vagabond, Elements, Alpha and Omega and many more that are totally different and a display of the variation in Tolkki's composition skills. If you like Stratovarius, then you probably liked TT's writing at one point or another.

I can understand people not liking New Era, some people think it's "boring" "monotonous" or another "wannabe visions", but for me, it's a return to that "monotonous" sound that I have always loved about Stratovarius and was a nice treat after being starved for so many years between Elements part 2 and now. With that being said, musically, I think Stratovarius did break the monotony with Polaris and became a lot more progressive in terms of the few songs I have heard. From Higher we Go and Deep Unknown though, I kinda don't like the lyrics. Stratovarius is one of the few power metal bands that doesn't sing about castles, dragons or unicorns, and I think the lyrics try to emulate what Tolkki's positive message was, but dare I say they sound more "superficial". Don't get me wrong, I think both Deep Unknown and Higher are amazing, catchy and very well composed, but the lyrics aren't as moving to me like TT's. So I do see what Tolkki is saying about the soul comment, but I also agree that Startovarius' new sound is fresh, powerful and moving in a different way than before.

If it weren't for TT, we wouldn't even have the history to base any of this new Stratovarius off of. So let's appreciate the fact that TT did create most of the music that we love or loved as stratovarius, and we wouldn't even have polaris or this new progression in stratovarius' sound if it wasn't for Tolkki's involvement or departure. Every little thing that's happened contributed to the whole of the way things are now. I think that perhaps we might want to take things as they come, just enjoy the music and not let anybody's review or opinions ruin our listening pleasures. There's always darkness before the dawn, and I'm pretty sure we are seeing the dawn now with the release of both AoA and Polaris.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by icecab21 » Fri May 22, 2009 8:21 pm

How can simular be the same? By definition simular is different.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by NightScreamer » Sat May 23, 2009 4:50 am

I'm just staying out of Tolkki's drama. He makes good music but is a strange person

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by hiro23 » Sat May 23, 2009 7:37 am

Rebel:the self titled album is a different album to be sure, however in my case different does not equal bad.
I can see how a fan of the traditional sound might be put off by it however if your more like me you realize that experimentation in a band seems a necessary thing.

Even though the experimental album may not be as good as the others it acts as a platform for the next album so that it sounds better.
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by DreamT » Sat May 23, 2009 2:13 pm

Tolkki states that "it's only a review" and "only an opinion". On the other hand he states that he's opinion is more legitimate than anyone elses (I'm too lazy to look it up, just check the thread). That is, ladies and germs, a contradiction.

Basically, this is a way to create a drama over a bad desicion in the past, and you know how that your words are more than "just an opinion". You are too involved in Strato's past to write a "true" review.

Please Timo, take that energy and agression and keep doing beautiful music instead, because that is what we love about you.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by miditek » Sat May 23, 2009 9:44 pm

Image

Leave Tolkki ALONE! :lol:
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Bublix » Sat May 23, 2009 9:49 pm

Haha! Nice one! :D

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Iou1Soul » Sat May 23, 2009 10:27 pm

This is all very interesting.

A mixture of unhelpful comments from Tolkki (who, by the way believes they are rational) and unhelpful comments from Stratovarius forum users (who, by the way, believe they are rational).

The fact is, Tolkki can write about whoever he wants, whenever he wants, and this stupid clinging on to his every word business serves no other purpose than to have a go at him.

It was never likely that Tolkki was going to like it. He poured his heart and soul into a band, leaves and from his point of view, he sees the vision destroyed.

Speaking as a bipolar person, myself, I can say (and Timo Tolkki may not like this at all) we are prone to being a little rash, speaking without thinking and experiancing emotions regardless of whether we should experiance them. My illness has lost me what had previously been "solid friendships." We drive people away, and whe we do, we blame them for it all. I'm not saying the blame is ALL on Tolkki's side, but with someone with bipolar disporder, their thoughts sometimes require a larger pinch of salt than others.

This attacks on him and his personality are irrational, do not help matter, and make him feel worse. I am sure his intention is not to upset anyone. And that he is just doing what he thinks is the best thing to do.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by lalodrums2 » Sat May 23, 2009 11:29 pm

Iou1Soul wrote:This is all very interesting.

A mixture of unhelpful comments from Tolkki (who, by the way believes they are rational) and unhelpful comments from Stratovarius forum users (who, by the way, believe they are rational).

The fact is, Tolkki can write about whoever he wants, whenever he wants, and this stupid clinging on to his every word business serves no other purpose than to have a go at him.

It was never likely that Tolkki was going to like it. He poured his heart and soul into a band, leaves and from his point of view, he sees the vision destroyed.

Speaking as a bipolar person, myself, I can say (and Timo Tolkki may not like this at all) we are prone to being a little rash, speaking without thinking and experiancing emotions regardless of whether we should experiance them. My illness has lost me what had previously been "solid friendships." We drive people away, and whe we do, we blame them for it all. I'm not saying the blame is ALL on Tolkki's side, but with someone with bipolar disporder, their thoughts sometimes require a larger pinch of salt than others.

This attacks on him and his personality are irrational, do not help matter, and make him feel worse. I am sure his intention is not to upset anyone. And that he is just doing what he thinks is the best thing to do.
Excellent reply, thanks for sharing this feelings.

Cheers,

Eduardo :)
...

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Sun May 24, 2009 4:29 am

Iou1Soul wrote:This is all very interesting.

A mixture of unhelpful comments from Tolkki (who, by the way believes they are rational) and unhelpful comments from Stratovarius forum users (who, by the way, believe they are rational).

The fact is, Tolkki can write about whoever he wants, whenever he wants, and this stupid clinging on to his every word business serves no other purpose than to have a go at him.

It was never likely that Tolkki was going to like it. He poured his heart and soul into a band, leaves and from his point of view, he sees the vision destroyed.

Speaking as a bipolar person, myself, I can say (and Timo Tolkki may not like this at all) we are prone to being a little rash, speaking without thinking and experiancing emotions regardless of whether we should experiance them. My illness has lost me what had previously been "solid friendships." We drive people away, and whe we do, we blame them for it all. I'm not saying the blame is ALL on Tolkki's side, but with someone with bipolar disporder, their thoughts sometimes require a larger pinch of salt than others.

This attacks on him and his personality are irrational, do not help matter, and make him feel worse. I am sure his intention is not to upset anyone. And that he is just doing what he thinks is the best thing to do.


I can think that my comments are rational and you can always disagree. who can say with total confidence that I am or you are completely rational o irational? nobody.. everybody here is just expressing its personal opinion, and situations like this are common in internet forums: a forum w/o flames is not a forum

The thing that I don't understand is the people saying that "we shouldn't bash Tolkki's opinion" or that we necessarily have to respect his opinion. why? :S I strongly disagree with him, and if he really wasn't polite in first place why should I be?

Nobody says that he or anybody cannot express themselves freely here or any other forum, but if you make controversial comments, well... be ready to receive controversial responses!

I'll quote A10: "No one is, you know, filing a lawsuit against you for your opinion..."

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sun May 24, 2009 5:32 am

We need an invisible force field to keep these people out from making more arguments. Maybe one like this?

Image

:lol:
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Sun May 24, 2009 5:42 am

NeverendingAbyss wrote:We need an invisible force field to keep these people out from making more arguments. Maybe one like this?

Image

:lol:

lol :lol:

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by hiro23 » Sun May 24, 2009 7:54 am

I really don't get the situation myself, however I think I've stopped trying to figure it out.
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by DreamT » Sun May 24, 2009 3:14 pm

Ok, maybe I was a little harsh. I just think that there is so much great music coming from all directions, and think that the negativity doesn't "fit in" to this.

Tolkkis music have inspired me both musically and spiritually through the years, and I wish him all the best.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Mehida » Sun May 24, 2009 4:29 pm

emperor_black wrote:
I can think that my comments are rational and you can always disagree. who can say with total confidence that I am or you are completely rational o irational? nobody.. everybody here is just expressing its personal opinion, and situations like this are common in internet forums: a forum w/o flames is not a forum

The thing that I don't understand is the people saying that "we shouldn't bash Tolkki's opinion" or that we necessarily have to respect his opinion. why? :S I strongly disagree with him, and if he really wasn't polite in first place why should I be?

Nobody says that he or anybody cannot express themselves freely here or any other forum, but if you make controversial comments, well... be ready to receive controversial responses!

I'll quote A10: "No one is, you know, filing a lawsuit against you for your opinion..."

Don't want to offend you, but no because someone has done or said something bad you have to respond with the same kind of treatment.
If you are so sure he is acting bad, you shouldn't proceed in that way, I mean, "if he said bullshit about me, I'll say bullshit about him", so tell me which is the difference between you and him then.
You ended up being like him, after all.

You can freely give your opinion for sure, but always with respect. Because in the case, you are the one who committed the mistake firstly, you wouldn't like the people to punish you heavily, but rather to help you.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Luna » Sun May 24, 2009 6:38 pm

jle52 wrote:Not sure if anyone has read this. Totally disagree with this and I believe Polaris is much better then the 2 RR albums

http://www.revolution-renaissance.com/f ... f=11&t=339
I can't agree with you more!
I think RR's albums,especially AOA,showed some TT'S problem in mastering bass and drum beats,coz I heard some very familar beats...But in Polaris,I can hardly find any.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Desiree » Sun May 24, 2009 8:54 pm

Luna wrote:
jle52 wrote:Not sure if anyone has read this. Totally disagree with this and I believe Polaris is much better then the 2 RR albums

http://www.revolution-renaissance.com/f ... f=11&t=339
I can't agree with you more!
I think RR's albums,especially AOA,showed some TT'S problem in mastering bass and drum beats,coz I heard some vary familar beats...But in Polaris,I can hardly find any.
I love Polaris, I downloaded it and orderer a copy now.

Reading Tolkkis words turns me off him and his new band. He's not objective at all. Like hes writing that only cause he's jealous. It's sooooooooo obvious

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by hiro23 » Sun May 24, 2009 8:58 pm

I'm not going to get involved in any fights between the two, in the end I'm going to hope that things will be resolved once again.
metal feeds the beast

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by icecab21 » Sun May 24, 2009 9:18 pm

Any beat is familiar if you listen to enough music

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Luna » Sun May 24, 2009 10:03 pm

icecab21 wrote:Any beat is familiar if you listen to enough music
Absolutely! So I just compare them with their own products.I don't wanna them to repeat themselves,but sadly,Tolkki did this :(
It's a far,far better thing that I do than I have ever done;It's a far,far better rest that I go than I have ever known.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by emperor_black » Sun May 24, 2009 11:59 pm

Mehida wrote:
emperor_black wrote:
I can think that my comments are rational and you can always disagree. who can say with total confidence that I am or you are completely rational o irational? nobody.. everybody here is just expressing its personal opinion, and situations like this are common in internet forums: a forum w/o flames is not a forum

The thing that I don't understand is the people saying that "we shouldn't bash Tolkki's opinion" or that we necessarily have to respect his opinion. why? :S I strongly disagree with him, and if he really wasn't polite in first place why should I be?

Nobody says that he or anybody cannot express themselves freely here or any other forum, but if you make controversial comments, well... be ready to receive controversial responses!

I'll quote A10: "No one is, you know, filing a lawsuit against you for your opinion..."

Don't want to offend you, but no because someone has done or said something bad you have to respond with the same kind of treatment.
If you are so sure he is acting bad, you shouldn't proceed in that way, I mean, "if he said bullshit about me, I'll say bullshit about him", so tell me which is the difference between you and him then.
You ended up being like him, after all.

You can freely give your opinion for sure, but always with respect. Because in the case, you are the one who committed the mistake firstly, you wouldn't like the people to punish you heavily, but rather to help you.

I disagree. Thank you

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by eternity_strato » Mon May 25, 2009 2:12 am

The thing is very easy:

Like RR is going nowhere, and the strato guys have released a phenomenal album, once again we have here Tolkki to bash around.

For the last time,

This was your band until you screwed it up. You screwed it up SO hard. Now, they are over you, and those 2 guys that came the last onto the band have written some material better than RR, really. You can say whatever you want, but this album is fresh, and not canned boring depressed feeling songs that you do nowadays. And, wait, you think the first RR is better than Polaris? HA. Was 'new era' the album that had the same feeling as visions? Try 'visions of how i can not create any more original music'.

The thing is this: you thought that just being Timo Tolkki, people was going to buy your albums, and follow you and forget about stratovarius. Reality now is this: Stratovarius has released an amazing, powerful, positive album, innovative, where Matias plays actually very well played solos instead of "look how fast I can play", with the difference that Matias can play the same on stage. While no one puts atention on rr. But it won't be me who says what fails in RR to not be more successful. The thing is not to make a guitar solo on every song. Luckily for us and unluckily for you, the solos matias plays in this album are far better than anyone you've recorded in 10 years so far.

It has to suck a lot to have done something like this for 23 years, and screw it up because of money and attention. If you are in peace with the band as you say, you should shut your mouth, because the only thing that you show is that you're full of anger against the new stratovarius. You could learn a bit from your lyrics (if they mean something to you more thay syllables to accompany some melodies) and try to move on.

Instead of that, every once in a while, you do some kind of interview or comment about your old fellows.

While you were the heart of the band through a lot of years, the last ones you were a total disease to the band. The moment they got rid of you (or you left, I don't mind) was the moment that they could make MUSIC again.

But, you know, keep doing whatever you think is good. You can see how well-received is Polaris while no one talks about RR. This "hate" you have towards the band is only making stratovarius be closer to the fans and you turning on a kid that gets mad when noone puts attention on him. There's only one thing left for you to say, like a 4-year-old: "i'm angry and I stop breathing now".

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Star_Ocean » Mon May 25, 2009 2:32 am

^^^ That time of the month? Or are you just naturally good at acting like a 4-year old despite telling other people to stop acting like one?

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by TimoTolkki » Mon May 25, 2009 2:53 am

miditek wrote:Image

Leave Tolkki ALONE! :lol:
Hey, that's not a very Christian attitude. You might end up in hell from that one with one of your rifles:)

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by TimoTolkki » Mon May 25, 2009 3:07 am

This was your band until you screwed it up. You screwed it up SO hard.
If your somewhat biased opinion makes you feel better then good:) The things were bit more complicated than that.
Now, they are over you, and those 2 guys that came the last onto the band have written some material better than RR, really
I don't think they ever will be "over me" since they will be playing my songs mostly:)
You can say whatever you want, but this album is fresh, and not canned boring depressed feeling songs that you do nowadays. And, wait, you think the first RR is better than Polaris? HA.
I'm not claiming it's better. The review is just my opinion:)
Was 'new era' the album that had the same feeling as visions? Try 'visions of how i can not create any more original music'.
Why should it have same feeling than Visions? New Era is not Stratovarius.
I do think Age of Aquarius is actually pretty original music. I also think Saana is very original music.:)
Reality now is this: Stratovarius has released an amazing, powerful, positive album, innovative, where Matias plays actually very well played solos instead of "look how fast I can play", with the difference that Matias can play the same on stage.
:)

While no one puts atention on rr. But it won't be me who says what fails in RR to not be more successful.
It remains to be seen. Also Jens & co have to prove a lot still around the world to the Stratovarius fans:) It's not quite that easy as you make it sound. Also they have the brand, the name and much bigger record company and machinery than RR. In Finland you need 500 records to reach #2 in charts :)

The thing is not to make a guitar solo on every song. Luckily for us and unluckily for you, the solos matias plays in this album are far better than anyone you've recorded in 10 years so far


You think so? Okay:)

It has to suck a lot to have done something like this for 23 years, and screw it up because of money and attention.


Well that doesnt make any sense. If I wanted that, I would have stayed with Jens and co:)

If you are in peace with the band as you say, you should shut your mouth, because the only thing that you show is that you're full of anger against the new stratovarius.


I'm mostly angry about some bullshit and hateful comments done by Kotipelto and Jörg in almost every interview.

You could learn a bit from your lyrics (if they mean something to you more thay syllables to accompany some melodies) and try to move on.


Yeah, those lyrics took quite a bit of time...

While you were the heart of the band through a lot of years, the last ones you were a total disease to the band. The moment they got rid of you (or you left, I don't mind) was the moment that they could make MUSIC again.


Which disease?

But, you know, keep doing whatever you think is good. You can see how well-received is Polaris while no one talks about RR. This "hate" you have towards the band is only making stratovarius be closer to the fans and you turning on a kid that gets mad when noone puts attention on him.


Trust me, it's not about attention:) The success factor, if that is how you want to measure things, will be seen in the next few years, not now.
Nice teddy bear by the way:)

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Mon May 25, 2009 3:17 am

Don't mind them, Tolkki. They just love to create chaos and feed on carrion of the past. :lol:
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch?!

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by Crazyniel » Mon May 25, 2009 3:20 am

I agree a little with some coments after my last comment, but I still likes Tolkki, of course I'm still his fan, but sometimes we feel a little upset with the comment, it's only this. Rock the Metal....^^

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by miditek » Mon May 25, 2009 4:25 am

TimoTolkki wrote:
miditek wrote:Image

Leave Tolkki ALONE! :lol:
Hey, that's not a very Christian attitude. You might end up in hell from that one with one of your rifles:)
Believe it or not, it was actually a satire for overzealous fans, and not directed at you personally.

Still, I'll keep my powder dry for the moment- just in case! :D

Cheers,

Image
Target practice yesterday afternoon at a local rifle range. I keep the Beretta 8000F 9mm pistol on my nightstand right next to my Bible. ;)
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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by icecab21 » Mon May 25, 2009 8:21 am

With all this "best in ten years" stuff”, of course a few might rate some of the songs there, but I am not sure how many would if they just heard all the songs from the last 10 years in random order and were asked to rate them.

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Re: Timo Tolkki's review of Polaris

Post by hiro23 » Mon May 25, 2009 9:35 am

Geez should I throw out a sign that says "let the games begin?"

if there are any issues between Tolkki and the remaining Strato members let them work it out.
All this hate is getting us nowhere, it's become a huge "us vs them" debate again.

History is once again repeating itself, remember if we do not learn from the mistakes of the past we are doomed to repeat them.
metal feeds the beast

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