Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

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Should high songs be transposed to lower notes?

Yes
16
29%
Not really...
39
71%
 
Total votes: 55

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HinatAArcticA
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Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by HinatAArcticA » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:46 am

Well, I make this topic because
some say that songs like "Find Your Own Voice" or "Father Time" can't be performed live again because
it would be to hard for Timo to sing them, and I think is true. Some of those songs really become really hard to sing live but... why not doing what bands like Sonata Arctica do?
Their 2008 performances of "Wolf and Raven" feature a version that is 5 semi tones lower than the original song, so Tony can sing it totally well, and the song sound really amazing.
So, could it be a good idea to transpose those high songs to lower notes?
I say yes...
Would be great to make the live repertory expand with that.
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Mormegil » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:58 am

If he absolutely, postively couldn't handle some of the songs, but they still felt compelled to play them, he could just sing them in lower octave.
I usually dislike it when power metal bands (Rhapsody, Kamelot, Nightwish) change to D or dropped D-tuning. Makes it sound like some weird symphonic metalcore. But maybe that's just me. :P

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by lalodrums2 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:08 pm

I see nothing wrong with doing that. A lot of bands do it. :)
...

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Luna » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:36 pm

It depends.Maybe some slow-paced songs can bring amazement,like Ville Valo's :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by empi » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:45 pm

I say no.The high singing is part of the songs and for father time TK showed us many times he could do it well.And if he has a bad day or flue they should drop it from the setlist and thats it.

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by mayhem-for-all » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:48 pm

empi wrote:I say no.The high singing is part of the songs and for father time TK showed us many times he could do it well.And if he has a bad day or flue they should drop it from the setlist and thats it.
Definately agreed.
He has been doing very well I hear apart from the first shows of UK tour.

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Ragehead91 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:56 pm

mayhem-for-all wrote:
empi wrote:I say no.The high singing is part of the songs and for father time TK showed us many times he could do it well.And if he has a bad day or flue they should drop it from the setlist and thats it.
Definately agreed.
He has been doing very well I hear apart from the first shows of UK tour.
+2

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by IceTear1 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:23 pm

I think that Timo can handle those. I pay attention in Sauna and I think that he sang higher than Hammerfall and Kamelot.

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by LauriPorra » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:38 pm

HinatAArcticA wrote:Well, I make this topic because
some say that songs like "Find Your Own Voice" or "Father Time" can't be performed live again because
it would be to hard for Timo to sing them
I´m no Timo but this sounds like bullshit to me.
No need to tune down if we want to play a certain song we just do it,
"the voice" can handle it.

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by NeverendingAbyss » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:40 pm

LauriPorra wrote:
HinatAArcticA wrote:Well, I make this topic because
some say that songs like "Find Your Own Voice" or "Father Time" can't be performed live again because
it would be to hard for Timo to sing them
I´m no Timo but this sounds like bullshit to me.
No need to tune down if we want to play a certain song we just do it,
"the voice" can handle it.

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by FindYourOwnVoice » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:39 pm

Timo Kotipelto can do those songs and everything else from the catalog, live, easily. As he has done many times.

Try to understand, that no singer is in God-like form on all and every gig!

Takes Finnish SISU and courage, to take the challenge Kotipelto did, while on recent British tour as he was very ill.

Actually, Timo Kotipelto is the most impressive and touching metal vocalist of all time for me. Among with Tony Martin of Black Sabbath.

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Lurdi » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:10 pm

No, that'd be catastrophic. Apart from being an indisputable professional and committed singer he is mainly well-known for his high voice, and that is what makes him different from the rest of singers. The way it is is something I absolutely love. Nobody can sing those impossible songs like him, it's like his trademark. If he didn't sing the way he does, his voice wouldn't be as appealing as it is to me.
Furthermore, if he couldn't sing high he wouldn't record the songs singing high because then, when singing live it comes the real deal:you can do it, or you simply can't, and Stratovarius is one of those bands that has proved to sing and play even better live than in the studio.

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by HinatAArcticA » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:14 pm

Well, I'm not very sure that he can sing all of those live on a comfortable way. I say this because Jens on an interview says that Timo chooses the live setlist because there are songs he couldn't really sing live or because they were very difficult for the voice. I keep thinking would be a great idea to expand the live setlist.
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by RazielSR » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:26 pm

No, Jens said that some nights there are some songs that are difficult to sing. You know, you can't be always 100%. He didn't said that because of Timo's ability nowadays.

Bullshit, he can handle the songs perfectly as always. See Infinite Visions DVD and you'll see that there are parts where he is not singing perfectly. I mean, it's the same today, sometimes is better and sometimes worst, anyway is a pro and he always sings really good live.

And it's the same with every singer, there are days...and days...
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by HinatAArcticA » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:54 pm

Oh well, each one has his or her own point of view :)
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Fuuso » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:55 pm

Every singer has bad days. I'm sure TK can handle the singing with their current tuning. So I don't think they should transpose the songs down. But I do think they could have a bit more backing vocals. TT could sing really well especially when TK's voice wasn't in top shape. I think Porra could sing a bit more. And I wonder if Matias can sing :)

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by NeonVomit » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:13 pm

Find Your Own Voice was a very difficult song for Timo to sing, I remember before Elements pt1 was released Timo Tolkki mentioned in his blog on his old website that Koti didn't believe he could even sing it in the studio and had to be convinced to try it.

He managed it pretty well live but you could tell he was pushing himself. In one of Jorg's recent interviews, he says that Koti had a hard time with a lot of the songs Tolkki would write but now feels a lot more free and comfortable with the material.

He never had any difficulties with Father Time, I've heard that song a few times live and it was always spot on.

Like Lauri said, 'the voice' can handle it just fine ;)
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Aldaron » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:14 pm

Well, I'm sure Timo can handle any of the songs if he's feeling well and hasn't done too many back to back gigs, but I think "Find Your Own Voice" should be written in a lower octave anyway. That song was just written way too high and you can't even tell what he's singing - IMO.
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by NeonVomit » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:19 pm

Aldaron wrote:Well, I'm sure Timo can handle any of the songs if he's feeling well and hasn't done too many back to back gigs, but I think "Find Your Own Voice" should be written in a lower octave anyway. That song was just written way too high and you can't even tell what he's singing - IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I love that particular song but I think Tolkki wrote it specifically to push each member of the band to their absolute maximum, as a sort of statement I guess. They only ever played it live on the Elements tour.
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by HinatAArcticA » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:08 am

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/b61M9sWMeWU&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b61M9sWMeWU&hl ... 2=0xcd311b" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Just "wow" hehe, but wouldn't it sound better a bit lower? Less forced?
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:23 am

No. It is perfect as it is.

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by FindYourOwnVoice » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:23 am

HinatAArcticA wrote:<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/b61M9sWMeWU&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b61M9sWMeWU&hl ... 2=0xcd311b" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Just "wow" hehe, but wouldn't it sound better a bit lower? Less forced?
No. This is one of the most difficult songs ever written for a metal vocalist... The 'fragility' and seeking to top it, at the first part (of this particular clip), just adds to the humane feeling of it... And the latter part, Kotipelto just about makes as on record! One time shot always live... And i wonder if this was even on the quite starting part of the setlist on that particular gigs set...

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by FindYourOwnVoice » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:27 am

Heh, we replied the same time Ragehead :) -starting with exact same word also :D

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:40 am

XD yeah. And with the same opinion also! The song is perfect the way it is!

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by warrencurrymetal » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:49 am

Poor Koti, sounded like he was hurting himself playing that. He really pushes. I bet his throat was soar after that one. Props to him for not half assing it and letting the crowd sing it!

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by NeonVomit » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:48 pm

FindYourOwnVoice wrote:And i wonder if this was even on the quite starting part of the setlist on that particular gigs set...

It was second on the setlist after Eagleheart at the gig I went to.
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Aldaron » Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:49 pm

Well, once again IMO, the songs sounds more forced in this live version than on the album. Poor Koti has a few rough spots between 1:25 and 1:55, and again at 2:25. Surprisingly, he seems to get much stronger after the 3-minute mark and holds those long notes beautifully.

Don't get me wrong, I love the tune and the tempo of this song, I just think the natural power of Timo's voice would add so much more depth to it if some of the parts weren't so high. Even though I know the lyrics, I still can't understand what he's singing sometimes.

Actually, in this recording done in Japan in 2003, he's practically flawless. Too bad about the poorer sound quality of the recording.
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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by Lurdi » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:01 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:No. It is perfect as it is.
+1

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by warrencurrymetal » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:21 pm

It sounds perfect as it is because the song rocks, and Koti will push because of his stellar work ethic. I think for the sake of his voice in the long run however, strato should play down at least 1 semitone live. I don't think the majority of the audience would notice, (many would but be understanding) and Koti can save his voice and continue to rock the world even when the band becomes, "Geriatrovarius"

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Re: Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

Post by _Pepe_ » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:23 am

Aldaron wrote:
Actually, in this recording done in Japan in 2003, he's practically flawless. Too bad about the poorer sound quality of the recording.
+1


for me is a excelent version , and once again THIS SONG IS VERY HARD TO SING.
congratulations for timo to asume this risk in the elements tour.

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