Timo Kotipelto Live - Should songs be transposed down?

[Irinia]

I think the songs are fine as they are. And that it should be up to Timo himself whether he should sing them lower or not
His voice is absolutely fantastic and I never get sick of listening to it

[lalodrums2]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/b61M9sWMeWU&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/b61M9sWMeWU&hl ... 2=0xcd311b" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


Just "wow" hehe, but wouldn't it sound better a bit lower? Less forced?

Yeah, I agree with you, and I perfectly understand your point of view, there's nothing wrong with doing it. A lot of bands do it, It's not a sin, it's a favor to the singer, sometimes it's not necessary to sing those very high notes (and now more than ever due to TT is not in the band anymore, he was the one who wanted those super high notes, don't know why), and I think TK's voice is really amazing and doesn't have to be forced, that's why I love polaris, he sings as he wants, so he sounds really awesome (and like in all his soloist albums).

Anyway "Hinataarctica" believe me, it's our point of view, not everyone has a good ear, some dudes hear this song (good example by the way) that you've posted, (as normal) as the record, so they will disagree.

However when I'm at the gig, this doesn't bother me, It's up to TK wheter do it or not I guess.

Cheers

[RazielSR]

lalodrums you are misundestanding, you and others.

A lot of bands do it, It's not a sin, it's a favor to the singer, sometimes it's not necessary to sing those very high notes (and now more than ever due to TT is not in the band anymore, he was the one who wanted those super high notes, don't know why), and I think TK's voice is really amazing and doesn't have to be forced

TK was not forcing his voice in the whole Stratovarius discography, THAT IS TK'S VOICE.

He was forcing his voice in some songs form Elements album which imo is too much...

Now you all seem to believe that Timo Tolkki was damaging TK's voice by singing UNCOMPARABLE high songs like Father time, Will the sun rise, Visions or other songs (almost all the songs in stratovarius discography are about "high notes").
TT was exploiting the best of TK's voice and TT knows better than you or me all about Tk's voice.


Let's see, I'm really happy with Polaris and I'm really happy and I WANT to see Stratovarius making new albums with or without Timo Tolkki. But, if we speak seriously, let's do it seriously and stop almost saying that all the past was a plan to damage TK's voice, because all we know that the best albums/songs from Stratovarius were and will be the ones composed by Timo Tolkki . So stop "destroying" the past because that is uncomparable.

Cmon dudes, how it's possible that some of you are saying that he SHOULD forget the MAIN characteristic of his wonderful voice? No, no and no. Tk should sing high notes and should sing low notes. For example in Forever is today you can listen some high notes, anyway Polaris albums shows Tk's voice in a lower range. I like both versions of Tk's voice, but I prefer a mix of both.

But please stop saying that he should forget his main characteristic because he can do that with his solo band or Cain's Offering, This is Stratovarius, or the new Stratovarius or whaterver you wanna call it, at least they are carrying Stratovarius name, so they should sound like Stratovarius and it is exactly what they are doing (imo). Different and with another message but stills being Stratovarius.

If TK starts to sing always low notes, then this is not Stratovarius for me.


So, I completely disagree with this opinions.

[warrencurrymetal]

lalodrums you are misundestanding, you and others.

A lot of bands do it, It's not a sin, it's a favor to the singer, sometimes it's not necessary to sing those very high notes (and now more than ever due to TT is not in the band anymore, he was the one who wanted those super high notes, don't know why), and I think TK's voice is really amazing and doesn't have to be forced

TK was not forcing his voice in the whole Stratovarius discography, THAT IS TK'S VOICE.

He was forcing his voice in some songs form Elements album which imo is too much...

Now you all seem to believe that Timo Tolkki was damaging TK's voice by singing UNCOMPARABLE high songs like Father time, Will the sun rise, Visions or other songs (almost all the songs in stratovarius discography are about "high notes").
TT was exploiting the best of TK's voice and TT knows better than you or me all about Tk's voice.


Let's see, I'm really happy with Polaris and I'm really happy and I WANT to see Stratovarius making new albums with or without Timo Tolkki. But, if we speak seriously, let's do it seriously and stop almost saying that all the past was a plan to damage TK's voice, because all we know that the best albums/songs from Stratovarius were and will be the ones composed by Timo Tolkki . So stop "destroying" the past because that is uncomparable.

Cmon dudes, how it's possible that some of you are saying that he SHOULD forget the MAIN characteristic of his wonderful voice? No, no and no. Tk should sing high notes and should sing low notes. For example in Forever is today you can listen some high notes, anyway Polaris albums shows Tk's voice in a lower range. I like both versions of Tk's voice, but I prefer a mix of both.

But please stop saying that he should forget his main characteristic because he can do that with his solo band or Cain's Offering, This is Stratovarius, or the new Stratovarius or whaterver you wanna call it, at least they are carrying Stratovarius name, so they should sound like Stratovarius and it is exactly what they are doing (imo). Different and with another message but stills being Stratovarius.

If TK starts to sing always low notes, then this is not Stratovarius for me.


So, I completely disagree with this opinions.

I'm not saying he was damaging his voice by doing sweet recordings. Those can be done at the singer's pace and can allow sufficient rest between recording. If something isn't quite right the first time around, the singer can go in and redo. I'm just saying that based on what I heard live, It sounds like TK was hurting himself. I know because I am a singer, and I have made similar sounds when my voice was either not quite ready, or too tired to hit the especially high notes. When I have made some of those similar sounds, it is painful!

You can hear what I'm talking about in the one particular live recording of find your own voice posted earlier. At one point, it sounded like he was pushing so hard that he lost all tone in the middle of a note. Like his vocal chords just were probably tense and just gave out into a rasp sound. OUCH! I know what that feels like, and it sucks! I know TK is a perfectionist with his craft, so he is going to push no matter what to sing the song the way it was written.

Also, Tolkki wasn't intentionally damaging TK's voice, Tolkki too strikes me as a perfectionist and probably pushed Koti to hit every note to make the songs sound the best they could live. Tolkki also probably did not want to alter the songs in any way from his originals he composed, which is also understandable for preserving the integrity of the composition.

It just comes down to choice. Koti could half ass parts of the songs like most other singers do and have the crowd sing the high parts, or transpose those parts down an entire octave, (which he will never do)

They could transpose the songs down a semitone or two,

Or Koti can just figure out a way to warm up and be completely relaxed prior to every show and hit the high notes every time without hurting. (easier said than done)

[RazielSR]

About that Find your own voice performance, I have to say that it is painful to hear, so I can't imagine to sing... I agree with that, some songs on elements album are too much. But the rest of the classics, he should sing it like always, and he should sing in future albums that way too (something like Will the sun rise or Father Time for example).

Because if you transpose that songs, then that means that you are losing your voice and you are not able to sing again like you used to sing.

[nefertari]

Here you can hear wonderful, great live vocals by Timo Kotipelto : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsfGjb-evLo

[Polaris]

Well Find your own voice never was my fave Stratovarius song, but Kotipelto can sings everything he wants!

[rikkertje]

Actually, in this recording done in Japan in 2003, he's practically flawless. Too bad about the poorer sound quality of the recording.

+1


for me is a excelent version , and once again THIS SONG IS VERY HARD TO SING.
congratulations for timo to asume this risk in the elements tour.

I agree. But I am curious of how it will sound now, in 2009. I want to hear that before I can say if they should transpose it down.

[emperor_black]

Well, once again IMO, the songs sounds more forced in this live version than on the album. Poor Koti has a few rough spots between 1:25 and 1:55, and again at 2:25. Surprisingly, he seems to get much stronger after the 3-minute mark and holds those long notes beautifully.

Don't get me wrong, I love the tune and the tempo of this song, I just think the natural power of Timo's voice would add so much more depth to it if some of the parts weren't so high. Even though I know the lyrics, I still can't understand what he's singing sometimes.

Actually, in this recording done in Japan in 2003, he's practically flawless. Too bad about the poorer sound quality of the recording.

this one is excellent

[stratoplayer]

They only ever played it live on the Elements tour.

Which is a damn shame if you ask me....

[palarmux]

Timo kotipelto's livevoice isn't bad but i cannot say it's world's best... But why Kotipelto's voice will sound really creepy is that their songs are so hard. By the way...

I think if u are in live you don't much care about singer's voice. The best things are THE FEELING in live.
So notes be same as they have been before

[Beast_Pete]

I wouldn't judge his capability by those videos. They never show what he really is capable of. I have heard Timo live 5 times and he has never had problems singing those two songs or any at all.

[warrencurrymetal]

Actually, in this recording done in Japan in 2003, he's practically flawless. Too bad about the poorer sound quality of the recording.

+1


for me is a excelent version , and once again THIS SONG IS VERY HARD TO SING.
congratulations for timo to asume this risk in the elements tour.

I agree. But I am curious of how it will sound now, in 2009. I want to hear that before I can say if they should transpose it down.

Bravo! They were all superb in that video!

[Ruoskar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il59a3JB-YU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRqBgeL4D6A

Kotipelto have sometimes bad days but when he have good day, he is awesome.

[Intiaani]

I think that Timo can handle those. I pay attention in Sauna and I think that he sang higher than Hammerfall and Kamelot.

This is rather an old little side road on this rather old topic, but I think you might be wrong. While Roy Khan (Kamelot) definitely wasn't in his best, you know, I still couldn't believe how good Joacim Cans (HammerFall) was. I mean, they wrote on their website he had had so much problems with his voice, apparently because of he was full of bogey. They put the man in some breathing machine (possibly some gas to open up breathing channels?), and voilá! After a couple of more months, he still sang well in Sauna, and made it look easy even. ^_^

[edit]

Actually I found the blog entry about it:

- - Joacim has been in pretty bad shape, voice-wise, the last couple of days, so he spent the day in a hotel room nearby so he could rest and get better. They got some sort of steam-controlled breathing machine to help him clear his airways, which seemed to help because you wouldn't notice anything wrong with his voice during the concert. Which was good, because a camera team was there to capture the gig for a potential future release.

Singer doping!

[/edit]

Anyway, for the subject of the topic, I say, yes, it could be done, it's done sometimes anyway. Although I hope it's not done on regular basis. If a musician more often than not can't play a song live, the song shouldn't be played live. At least before the musician learns it. That Find Your Own Voice video was parts pretty horrible, and I take it was one of his best efforts on the Elements tour? No way does that song belong to the setlist, it's just too damn hard for any (tenor-)baritone out there - TK's just not created to sing stuff like that. As for Father Time, though, singing it an octave lower if necessary might even work. Dunno why though. Maybe the melody just allows it. Or maybe I just wanna hear it live again! ^^