The Worst Album and Song?

Here you can talk about Stratovarius and related bands. Language used is English.
Rage1979
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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Rage1979 » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:38 pm

ggonza43 wrote:Worst album: Stratovarius (still can't believe why they did that!)
Worst song: Thin Ice (also beign the most strangest song ever, I simply don't get it)
Am I the only one who likes that album? Far from the best ones, but I think the black album is better than Polaris for example.

When mountains fall is probably the worst Stratovarius song ever.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:40 pm

Rage1979 wrote:
ggonza43 wrote:Worst album: Stratovarius (still can't believe why they did that!)
Worst song: Thin Ice (also beign the most strangest song ever, I simply don't get it)
Am I the only one who likes that album? Far from the best ones, but I think the black album is better than Polaris for example.

When mountains fall is probably the worst Stratovarius song ever.
I like the S/T album too.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by guitarmaster » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:26 pm

album-Polaris
Song-Deep Unknown
Timo Tolkki Forever!

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by mayhem-for-all » Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:42 am

guitarmaster wrote:album-Polaris
Song-Deep Unknown
You seriously think that Self titled and Fright Night are better than polaris? :huh:

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Maddest Hatter » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:08 pm

Rage1979 wrote:
Am I the only one who likes that album? Far from the best ones, but I think the black album is better than Polaris for example.
I quite like the S/T album as well. I don't understand why it is so unpopular with the band and fans. There is one track that I don't really care for, but everything else is pretty good. "Maniac Dance" and "The Land Of Ice And Snow" are awesome.

I disagree that it is better than Polaris though.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Intiaani » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:11 pm

Yeah, it's a good album. I think it's better than the Tolkki-sung albums, and about as good as Fourth Dimension and Elements, Pt. 2. United is one of the best Stratovarius songs ever. But, since this is the worst album and song topic, I need to pic the worst song on that album. A hard choise. Maniac Dance was the worst at first since it wasn't very Stratovarius like, but the vocal delivery, lyrics and originality made it a hit for me in the end. So, maybe Gypsy in Me has the most filler feel in the album these days. A basic song with nothing special.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by ggonza43 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:54 pm

People wait, everybody has their own opinion! We don't have to discuss which is the worst for each of us. I personally think that the self titled album is the worst they have done, but some others just agree that the sudden turn they have made was a great and successful change, and I respect them.
Just let them to express their opinions
|StratoFan Forever|

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by guitarmaster » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:00 pm

i nver really heard the whole of those albums so i wouldn't know.
Timo Tolkki Forever!

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Rage1979 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:41 pm

Maddest Hatter wrote:
Rage1979 wrote:
Am I the only one who likes that album? Far from the best ones, but I think the black album is better than Polaris for example.
I quite like the S/T album as well. I don't understand why it is so unpopular with the band and fans. There is one track that I don't really care for, but everything else is pretty good. "Maniac Dance" and "The Land Of Ice And Snow" are awesome.

I disagree that it is better than Polaris though.

I don't like Maniac dance.. but it is the only weak song there.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Ragehead91 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:45 pm

Rage1979 wrote:
Maddest Hatter wrote:
Rage1979 wrote:
Am I the only one who likes that album? Far from the best ones, but I think the black album is better than Polaris for example.
I quite like the S/T album as well. I don't understand why it is so unpopular with the band and fans. There is one track that I don't really care for, but everything else is pretty good. "Maniac Dance" and "The Land Of Ice And Snow" are awesome.

I disagree that it is better than Polaris though.

I don't like Maniac dance.. but it is the only weak song there.
To me the only wak song on S/T is Leave the Tribe or whatever it was called. The one written by Jens-

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Rage1979 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:48 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:
Rage1979 wrote:
Maddest Hatter wrote:
Rage1979 wrote:
Am I the only one who likes that album? Far from the best ones, but I think the black album is better than Polaris for example.
I quite like the S/T album as well. I don't understand why it is so unpopular with the band and fans. There is one track that I don't really care for, but everything else is pretty good. "Maniac Dance" and "The Land Of Ice And Snow" are awesome.

I disagree that it is better than Polaris though.

I don't like Maniac dance.. but it is the only weak song there.
To me the only wak song on S/T is Leave the Tribe or whatever it was called. The one written by Jens-
It is a weird song ok but one of the weakest though.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Neferte » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:32 am

For me there is not an album of Stratovarius that I don't like. But ok, among the bunch of songs the band has created of course there are some that are not as nice, cool, great, etc. than the others, so...
I know that many people will kill me for this, but I have to say that I can't stand the chorus of King Of Nothing (the intro is great, though). And in Polaris Timo does not sing that well, he lacks guidance, so it makes the ballads sound a little weird and forced.
I also can't stand Götterdämmerung, kinda boring.
Angels will cry
and the moon will disappear
the sun slowly dies
we'll be fading to the dark, so I fear...

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Ragehead91 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:59 am

I love Gätterdämmerung (Zenith of Power). The only part that I don't like is this particular verse:

"A diabolical plan was created
Armageddon and the apocalypse
Six million people vanished in the air
For the cause of one man"
When I first heard that I was like "What the fuck?" The lyrics of the song are great and describe the whole situation really good. Then comes this part. What? "Armageddon and the apocyalypse"? What the hell has this to do with the holocaust? It really doesn't fit the context of the song! the holocaust was terrible, but it was neither the apocalypse nor armageddon. What happened when Timo wrote this? Did he run out of ideas?

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by browneyedgirl » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:33 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:I love Gätterdämmerung (Zenith of Power). The only part that I don't like is this particular verse:

"A diabolical plan was created
Armageddon and the apocalypse
Six million people vanished in the air
For the cause of one man"
When I first heard that I was like "What the fuck?" The lyrics of the song are great and describe the whole situation really good. Then comes this part. What? "Armageddon and the apocyalypse"? What the hell has this to do with the holocaust? It really doesn't fit the context of the song! the holocaust was terrible, but it was neither the apocalypse nor armageddon. What happened when Timo wrote this? Did he run out of ideas?
Well, I guess to the Jews it felt like the Apocalypse was here! ;)

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Mormegil » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:29 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:I love Gätterdämmerung (Zenith of Power). The only part that I don't like is this particular verse:

"A diabolical plan was created
Armageddon and the apocalypse
Six million people vanished in the air
For the cause of one man"
When I first heard that I was like "What the fuck?" The lyrics of the song are great and describe the whole situation really good. Then comes this part. What? "Armageddon and the apocyalypse"? What the hell has this to do with the holocaust? It really doesn't fit the context of the song! the holocaust was terrible, but it was neither the apocalypse nor armageddon. What happened when Timo wrote this? Did he run out of ideas?
The song Götterdämmerung quite clearly is about Hitler and his rise to power rather than holocaust. "Hitler" even was name they originally intended to call it.
A diabolical plan was created = "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?" "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world."
Armageddon and the apocalypse = WWII, the closest mankind has ever been to armageddon and apocalypse.
Six million people vanished in the air = Holocaust.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Ragehead91 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:41 pm

Mormegil wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:I love Gätterdämmerung (Zenith of Power). The only part that I don't like is this particular verse:

"A diabolical plan was created
Armageddon and the apocalypse
Six million people vanished in the air
For the cause of one man"
When I first heard that I was like "What the fuck?" The lyrics of the song are great and describe the whole situation really good. Then comes this part. What? "Armageddon and the apocyalypse"? What the hell has this to do with the holocaust? It really doesn't fit the context of the song! the holocaust was terrible, but it was neither the apocalypse nor armageddon. What happened when Timo wrote this? Did he run out of ideas?
The song Götterdämmerung quite clearly is about Hitler and his rise to power rather than holocaust. "Hitler" even was name they originally intended to call it.
A diabolical plan was created = "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?" "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world."
Armageddon and the apocalypse = WWII, the closest mankind has ever been to armageddon and apocalypse.
Six million people vanished in the air = Holocaust.
I have to disagree. I think the verse that I posted clearly refers to the holocaust only and not to their plan of taking over the world. The diabolical plan part referes to the "Endlösung/Final Solution" (Systematic Genocide against the european Jewery). At least this is how I see it. The 6 Million part referes directly to the holocaust. This is how I see the verse. And this is why "Armaggedon and the Apocalypse" sounds out of place to me. The whole "Final Solution" was horrible and something that should never be repeated, but comparing it to a event that destroys the whole humanity is a bit over the top. Again, I'm not trying to play down the holocaust, but to me it wasn't something I would describe as Armaggedon or Apocalypse. It was a despicable and inhuman warcrime but it wasn't Armaggedon nor the Apocalypse.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Mormegil » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:50 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:
Mormegil wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:I love Gätterdämmerung (Zenith of Power). The only part that I don't like is this particular verse:

"A diabolical plan was created
Armageddon and the apocalypse
Six million people vanished in the air
For the cause of one man"
When I first heard that I was like "What the fuck?" The lyrics of the song are great and describe the whole situation really good. Then comes this part. What? "Armageddon and the apocyalypse"? What the hell has this to do with the holocaust? It really doesn't fit the context of the song! the holocaust was terrible, but it was neither the apocalypse nor armageddon. What happened when Timo wrote this? Did he run out of ideas?
The song Götterdämmerung quite clearly is about Hitler and his rise to power rather than holocaust. "Hitler" even was name they originally intended to call it.
A diabolical plan was created = "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?" "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world."
Armageddon and the apocalypse = WWII, the closest mankind has ever been to armageddon and apocalypse.
Six million people vanished in the air = Holocaust.
I have to disagree. I think the verse that I posted clearly refers to the holocaust only and not to their plan of taking over the world. The diabolical plan part referes to the "Endlösung/Final Solution" (Systematic Genocide against the european Jewery). At least this is how I see it. The 6 Million part referes directly to the holocaust. This is how I see the verse. And this is why "Armaggedon and the Apocalypse" sounds out of place to me. The whole "Final Solution" was horrible and something that should never be repeated, but comparing it to a event that destroys the whole humanity is a bit over the top. Again, I'm not trying to play down the holocaust, but to me it wasn't something I would describe as Armaggedon or Apocalypse. It was a despicable and inhuman warcrime but it wasn't Armaggedon nor the Apocalypse.
That's a way to see it for sure. That was just something I thought right away when I heard that verse, simply because it makes a lot more sense that way.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Ragehead91 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:58 pm

Mormegil wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:
Mormegil wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:I love Gätterdämmerung (Zenith of Power). The only part that I don't like is this particular verse:

"A diabolical plan was created
Armageddon and the apocalypse
Six million people vanished in the air
For the cause of one man"
When I first heard that I was like "What the fuck?" The lyrics of the song are great and describe the whole situation really good. Then comes this part. What? "Armageddon and the apocyalypse"? What the hell has this to do with the holocaust? It really doesn't fit the context of the song! the holocaust was terrible, but it was neither the apocalypse nor armageddon. What happened when Timo wrote this? Did he run out of ideas?
The song Götterdämmerung quite clearly is about Hitler and his rise to power rather than holocaust. "Hitler" even was name they originally intended to call it.
A diabolical plan was created = "Gee Brain, what do you want to do tonight?" "The same thing we do every night, Pinky—try to take over the world."
Armageddon and the apocalypse = WWII, the closest mankind has ever been to armageddon and apocalypse.
Six million people vanished in the air = Holocaust.
I have to disagree. I think the verse that I posted clearly refers to the holocaust only and not to their plan of taking over the world. The diabolical plan part referes to the "Endlösung/Final Solution" (Systematic Genocide against the european Jewery). At least this is how I see it. The 6 Million part referes directly to the holocaust. This is how I see the verse. And this is why "Armaggedon and the Apocalypse" sounds out of place to me. The whole "Final Solution" was horrible and something that should never be repeated, but comparing it to a event that destroys the whole humanity is a bit over the top. Again, I'm not trying to play down the holocaust, but to me it wasn't something I would describe as Armaggedon or Apocalypse. It was a despicable and inhuman warcrime but it wasn't Armaggedon nor the Apocalypse.
That's a way to see it for sure. That was just something I thought right away when I heard that verse, simply because it makes a lot more sense that way.
And what I wrote was what I thought right away when I listened to the song for the first time. I guess only Tolkki knows what it really means. It it referes to Hitlers plan to take over the world or if it referes to the Final Solution.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by HinatAArcticA » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:14 am

Worst album: Stratovarius (Even when I think The land of Ice and Snow is a beautifull song)
Worst song: Thin Ice...

But there's one song that somehow makes me feel weird sometimes, and that would be "When Mountains Fall".
I can't stop thinking is a "Forever " wannabe.
Or is that just me?
No need to feel so afraid, colors last a lifetime and fade to gray...
Tony Kakko

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Ragehead91 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:44 am

I think everyone feels that way. I think it failed. And they can't deny that the song is very heavily "influenced" by Forever.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:19 pm

The only thing the songs have in common is that they are both ballads with acoustic guitar and a string quartet. They have very different melodies and lyrics.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Rage1979 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:50 pm

icecab21 wrote:The only thing the songs have in common is that they are both ballads with acoustic guitar and a string quartet. They have very different melodies and lyrics.
another difference is that Timo sounds better on Forever.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by mayhem-for-all » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:46 pm

Rage1979 wrote:
icecab21 wrote:The only thing the songs have in common is that they are both ballads with acoustic guitar and a string quartet. They have very different melodies and lyrics.
another difference is that Timo sounds better on Forever.
Well in a way yes.
and I prefer the lyrics of Forever.
Yet it was too short...
But WMF is not any longer so...

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Intiaani » Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:13 pm

Why do Polaris vocals sound "forced" as everyone say? Well, be a 40-year-old power metal singer and you might begin realizing why is that. :P Although I think there are masterful performances still, such as the roughness in King of Nothing (whether it actually means anything or not, it's still cool, sings much like he sang in the most of the s/t), Forever Is Today and parts of Emancipation Suite.

Then again, I haven't heard Cain's Offering yet. I'm pre-ordering it, so I'll hear it pretty soon. People say Kotipelto sounds more loose in it than he's sounded in Strato in years, or ever, even. I don't know what it is, a change of style?

I think Tolkki always demanded vocals honed to perfection. Perhaps TK's expression was more free, more earthly on Polaris then? Not that many takes, not than much editation, etc. Possibly just more free than before, sang more in be-yourself way. Anyway, I've always liked Timo's unique voice, no matter how much his style has changed during the years. I even like his pronunciation very much; I think personal such is a richness more than anything else. It would be boring if everyone sang with perfect English, without an accent. That's why I love those singers anyway... Kakko, Kiske, Meine...

Again, but since this is the worst album and song topic, let me dig up the worst song on Polaris in my opinion. Oh, there it is: When Mountains Fall. I don't much like Somehow Precious, either, but WMF is too soft after too much epicness which should have ended the album as it ended the world already. ;) Next time, please put the necessary ballad into other slot, it doesn't always have to be the last song of the album. And WMF truly is too close to Forever, a far worse wannabe of that classic.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by palarmux » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:05 pm

It's hard to say what could be worst album and song... Let's see :)

Future shock is worst of my optinion. Almost whole album is bad.

And here is my optinion on all album's worst song.

Twilight time: Metal frenzy (it's awful)
Dreamspace: Thin ice (Too odd song for me)
4Th dimension: 030366 (as in Thin ice too strange to me but I like it still someway)
Episode: Episode (Actually it is not real song but it's worst of that album I didn't find anything else :P)
Visions: Holy light
Destiny: Venus in the morning (it's not bad just worst in album :D)
Infinite: Celestia dream
Elements I: Papillon
Elements II: Liberty (Yuck I hate this)
Stratovarius: Götterdämmerung (Zenith Of Power) (It's too boring)
Polaris: When the mountains fall (good song but we have too many ballads already)

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Intiaani » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:02 am

Alright then, let's try it album by album.

Fright Night: Fire Dance
By the way, as bland as this album might be, I still like the youthful energy and will for making in it. After all, it was hard to pick up the worst song: there are no bad ones! Not that there are any very good ones either...

Twilight Time: Hills Have Eyes
Never liked that song.

Dreamspace: Thin Ice
The Worst of All Stratovarius. :) Try to beat that someday! Don't.

Fourth Dimension: 030366
I seriously thought of going with Lord of the Waisteland, but I dunno... 030366 ain't that bad even, it has its own creepy personality. Still it IS the worst of the album though. :(

Episode: Will the Sun Rise?
Basic, nothing special. But mind you, there are no bad songs on this album.

Visions: Legions
No bad songs here, either. Had to big one. This one is catchy but a little over-the-top appreciation for the fans.

Destiny: Years Go By
Never actually thought about the worst song here; that is, haven't found the weakest link ever. Years Go By is as good as any other album track, but as a separate song it feels such a filler cry the most.

Infinite: A Million Light Years Away
Once again no bad songs, but I've heard this very commercial feeling piece too much so that it rather bores me nowadays.

Elements, Pt. 1: A Drop in the Ocean
At this point, the-last-song-always-has-to-be-the-ballad arrangement began boring me already. ;)

Elements, Pt. 2: I Walk to My Own Song
Maybe the first album since Elements that also has some uninteresting material in it. I don't like the latter half of the album that much, sans Liberty, one of the best songs there are. Almost went with Dreamweaver, a song that's never opened to me, but then I remembered IWtMOS. A rather embarrassing and ridiculous song. :D

Stratovarius: Gypsy in Me
A basic song, nothing very interesting going on. A solid album all the way, hard to find those weak links, although they are there.

Polaris: When Mountains Fall
See Elements, Pt. 1. :)

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by mayhem-for-all » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:48 am

Intiaani wrote:Alright then, let's try it album by album.

Fright Night: Fire Dance
By the way, as bland as this album might be, I still like the youthful energy and will for making in it. After all, it was hard to pick up the worst song: there are no bad ones! Not that there are any very good ones either...

Twilight Time: Hills Have Eyes
Never liked that song.

Dreamspace: Thin Ice
The Worst of All Stratovarius. :) Try to beat that someday! Don't.

Fourth Dimension: 030366
I seriously thought of going with Lord of the Waisteland, but I dunno... 030366 ain't that bad even, it has its own creepy personality. Still it IS the worst of the album though. :(

Episode: Will the Sun Rise?
Basic, nothing special. But mind you, there are no bad songs on this album.

Visions: Legions
No bad songs here, either. Had to big one. This one is catchy but a little over-the-top appreciation for the fans.

Destiny: Years Go By
Never actually thought about the worst song here; that is, haven't found the weakest link ever. Years Go By is as good as any other album track, but as a separate song it feels such a filler cry the most.

Infinite: A Million Light Years Away
Once again no bad songs, but I've heard this very commercial feeling piece too much so that it rather bores me nowadays.

Elements, Pt. 1: A Drop in the Ocean
At this point, the-last-song-always-has-to-be-the-ballad arrangement began boring me already. ;)

Elements, Pt. 2: I Walk to My Own Song
Maybe the first album since Elements that also has some uninteresting material in it. I don't like the latter half of the album that much, sans Liberty, one of the best songs there are. Almost went with Dreamweaver, a song that's never opened to me, but then I remembered IWtMOS. A rather embarrassing and ridiculous song. :D

Stratovarius: Gypsy in Me
A basic song, nothing very interesting going on. A solid album all the way, hard to find those weak links, although they are there.

Polaris: When Mountains Fall
See Elements, Pt. 1. :)
One thing you said that is very true.
Strato should hav an epic closer for the next one rather than a ballad.

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by onldhes » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:59 am

Fright Night: everything but Future Shock
Twilight Time: - Lead us into the Light
Dreamspace: Thin Ice
Fourth Dimension: Twilight Symphoney (I actually like 030366)
Episode: - Season of Change
Visions: Coming Home
Destiny: Venus in the Morning
Infinite: Mother Gaia
Elements I: Papillon
Elements II: Seasons of Faiths Perfection
S/T: Zenith of Power
Polaris: When Mountains Fall

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by onldhes » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:01 am

Oh I just realized I did it wrong.

My Least favorite album is Elements part II

My least Favorite song is Seasons of Faith's Perfection

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Re: The Worst Album and Song?

Post by Intiaani » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:09 pm

mayhem-for-all wrote: One thing you said that is very true.
Strato should hav an epic closer for the next one rather than a ballad.
Well it's a good thing there's even one thing right then. :roll:
onldhes wrote: Oh I just realized I did it wrong.
I don't think there are right or wrong ways to do this. It ain't that official. ;)

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