One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

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One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by shg » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:21 pm


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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by RazielSR » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:41 pm

And the second thing that caught my attention was Kotipelto. Man it has been years since he sounded this good. I think we have to go all the way to Destiny and Infinite era of Stratovarius. His voice sounds so natural and clear. Whatever they did in the studio to make the man sing like that...don't change anything in the future
:)

Completely agree, that's what we said here in the forum.
The album for me is .... I don't like it, but TK sings really really well, better than in Polaris imo.
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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:01 pm

RazielSR wrote:
And the second thing that caught my attention was Kotipelto. Man it has been years since he sounded this good. I think we have to go all the way to Destiny and Infinite era of Stratovarius. His voice sounds so natural and clear. Whatever they did in the studio to make the man sing like that...don't change anything in the future
:)

Completely agree, that's what we said here in the forum.
The album for me is .... I don't like it, but TK sings really really well, better than in Polaris imo.
Disagree about the album part but agree about the TK singing part. I dunno what Jani did but it seems he has the same influence on Kotipelto's voice that Tolkki had back in the day.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Intiaani » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:18 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:
RazielSR wrote:
And the second thing that caught my attention was Kotipelto. Man it has been years since he sounded this good. I think we have to go all the way to Destiny and Infinite era of Stratovarius. His voice sounds so natural and clear. Whatever they did in the studio to make the man sing like that...don't change anything in the future
:)

Completely agree, that's what we said here in the forum.
The album for me is .... I don't like it, but TK sings really really well, better than in Polaris imo.
Disagree about the album part but agree about the TK singing part. I dunno what Jani did but it seems he has the same influence on Kotipelto's voice that Tolkki had back in the day.
Basically made him sing like Kakko, nothing more, nothing less. Can't you guys hear it? Calmer, more pleasantly, more casually, more naturally for him. :) Still, I somehow like that heavier Kotipelto from Stratovarius more. Maybe because this is more like making Kotipelto Kakko. :D Can't say about the album yet since I've only spinned it through twice. Elegant metal, not least because of these calm singing melodies. Pretty demanding album it seems. Although I'm pretty bored in this style already - it ain't that metal. Sonata did it better, Kamelot does it extremely well and Serenity surprised us all with Fallen Sanctuary, which I definitely need to grab somewhere, fast. I think there's more feeling in it than in Gather the Faitful this far; GtF has been kind of plastical in that sence... I hope I can get more out of it with (way) more listens though. ;)

So not by any means does GtF bring anything revolutionary to this pleasant metal genre in my opinion, like Silence and Epica did for example.
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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by RazielSR » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:20 pm

Made him sing like Kakko? No, he sings like Kotipelto, like the old Kotipelto. You are making an anachronism with the Kotipelto-Kakko thing...

I suppose that with Polaris he showed us another spectrum of his voice, more rough and not that high. I like it too, a lot. But I prefer the pre-selftitled voice. He and Jani made a good job in the studio.
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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Rage1979 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:32 pm

I just love this album and Kotipelto sounds awsome. Much better on this than Polaris! Surprise of the year! More enjoyable also than new SA.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:20 pm

RazielSR wrote:Made him sing like Kakko? No, he sings like Kotipelto, like the old Kotipelto. You are making an anachronism with the Kotipelto-Kakko thing...
Indeed. Kotipelto sounds nothing like Kakko on this one. It is just good old Kotipelto like the good, old Fourth Dimension/Episode/Visions days.

And how the fuck were Silence and Epica revolutionary?

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by ainuman » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:32 pm

Rage1979 wrote:I just love this album and Kotipelto sounds awsome. Much better on this than Polaris! Surprise of the year! More enjoyable also than new SA.
Same thoughts here, Kotipeltos signing in Gtf is so relaxed. No pushing to too high notes, just great signing :)

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Empathica1928 » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:54 pm

A stunning album reminiscent of the old days of Sonata Arctica with a poppier touch and TK's finest vocals in years.

Excellent work, Jani.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Star_Ocean » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:04 pm

TK sounds just as good as he did in Serenity, which is saying a lot.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by _Pepe_ » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:08 pm

Intiaani wrote:
Basically made him sing like Kakko, nothing more, nothing less.
100% kotipelto !
Kotipelto sings this way since Tony was a amateur
xD

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by HinatAArcticA » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:24 am

All I have to say is that I didn't like Cain's Offering album. Just Morpheus in a Masquerade and My Queen of Winter are the songs I conssider to be good songs. The rest a ver avarage songs that any power metal band could do. And having Jani and Mikko, both featured on my Sonata Arctica's favorite album Silence, and Timo Kotipelto, one of my favorite singers, the album needed to be a killer and make me feel emotions similar to the ones I felt when listening to Ecliptica, Episode, Silence or Visions the first time. They didn't do that, I consider that a failure. Timo K saves the album to me :)
He did great, beter than in Polaris I think. If the album was featuring a new singer or something, it wouldn't have the same punch. Think about that for a sec.
Jani's solos were very "Dragonforced"... most of the songs a very "Dragonforced."
Like a speedrun of many fast notes, but I think of what Matias did with Polaris, or closer, what both Jani and Mikko did in Silence. I missed those very beautifully constructed solos (San Sebastian / Black Sheep / Wolf and Raven stuff).
Even Avantasia's Metal Opera was better I think. No Gather the Faithfull song was as emotive to me as "No Return" for example, and I conssider Cain's Offering to have better musicians, but maybe Tobi just is a better song writer.
Well, just my thoughts.

The Days of Grays not just was better. It was stronger, and just very superior to "Gather the Faitfull".

But again. Theese are my thoughts. I know that for this album there were two kind of people. The ones who loved it, and the ones who didn't like it at all. I'm in the second group I think. I keep trying to listen to it, but even UNIA was better to me (Oh my good "My Dream's But a Drop of Fuel for a Nightmare" is such an amazing song). I don't wanna force my self to like the album, so well, for the last time :) Just what I think, it's just one person's opiniong.
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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by TimoToikki » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:51 am

HinatAArcticA wrote:All I have to say is that I didn't like Cain's Offering album.
All I have to say is that I didn't like HinatAArcticA's post :)
What is the point of you criticizing the album? Criticize comes from the latin word critter. Critter is defined to be any domesticated animal. To criticize the album is to liken it to a critter and say it is domesticated and therefore tamed. Music should be uninhibited and artistically free :) So you are a real asshole and quite jerk :)

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by TimoToikki » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:55 am

Star_Ocean wrote:TK sounds just as good as he did in Serenity, which is saying a lot.
To me serenity sounds a lot like someone eating a bean and cheese burrito and violently farting in a public restroom while grunting like a wild boar. :)

I am sure people will attack me for just expressing my sincere personal opinion. About ART. I think that is quite funny :)

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by HinatAArcticA » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:32 am

TimoToIkki wrote:
HinatAArcticA wrote:All I have to say is that I didn't like Cain's Offering album.
All I have to say is that I didn't like HinatAArcticA's post :)
What is the point of you criticizing the album? Criticize comes from the latin word critter. Critter is defined to be any domesticated animal. To criticize the album is to liken it to a critter and say it is domesticated and therefore tamed. Music should be uninhibited and artistically free :) So you are a real asshole and quite jerk :)
Uhm... coming from a fake Tolkki (Ham to life topic)
I don't rally care about you...
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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by TimoToikki » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Ok friends, there is no reason why we cannot be nice and hug and love each other. I think both of us have said some terribly things we really regret. Good feelings and hugs to everybody. :)

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by NeonVomit » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:12 pm

Wasn't there a rule about having usernames similar to (former or current) band member names?
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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by mayhem-for-all » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:57 pm

Intiaani wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:
RazielSR wrote:
And the second thing that caught my attention was Kotipelto. Man it has been years since he sounded this good. I think we have to go all the way to Destiny and Infinite era of Stratovarius. His voice sounds so natural and clear. Whatever they did in the studio to make the man sing like that...don't change anything in the future
:)

Completely agree, that's what we said here in the forum.
The album for me is .... I don't like it, but TK sings really really well, better than in Polaris imo.
Disagree about the album part but agree about the TK singing part. I dunno what Jani did but it seems he has the same influence on Kotipelto's voice that Tolkki had back in the day.
Basically made him sing like Kakko, nothing more, nothing less. Can't you guys hear it? Calmer, more pleasantly, more casually, more naturally for him. :) Still, I somehow like that heavier Kotipelto from Stratovarius more. Maybe because this is more like making Kotipelto Kakko. :D Can't say about the album yet since I've only spinned it through twice. Elegant metal, not least because of these calm singing melodies. Pretty demanding album it seems. Although I'm pretty bored in this style already - it ain't that metal. Sonata did it better, Kamelot does it extremely well and Serenity surprised us all with Fallen Sanctuary, which I definitely need to grab somewhere, fast. I think there's more feeling in it than in Gather the Faitful this far; GtF has been kind of plastical in that sence... I hope I can get more out of it with (way) more listens though. ;)

So not by any means does GtF bring anything revolutionary to this pleasant metal genre in my opinion, like Silence and Epica did for example.
Exactly my thoughts.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by mayhem-for-all » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:00 pm

NeonVomit wrote:Wasn't there a rule about having usernames similar to (former or current) band member names?
Propably yes but I have a feeling the A-Hacker -Team did it again.
:? People are saying they grow tired of TT fooling around but I have grown reeeally tired of othe rpeople fooling around and blaming him.
Here we see it are you people any better.
(this was not appointed to anyone in particular neither to all of you and no racism intended.)

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by shg » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:32 pm

NeonVomit wrote:Wasn't there a rule about having usernames similar to (former or current) band member names?
If not, it should be done now! (edit. Although you/I would think that it is abundantly clear. :? ) The exception is one topic at spam section.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Intiaani » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:44 pm

HinatAArcticA wrote:
Uhm... coming from a fake Tolkki (Ham to life topic)
I don't rally care about you...
I still think the best way of recognizing a real Tolkki is his way to spell the ' mark as ´, for example in writing the "'s" genetive, thus using a wrong character. :) He still does it as far as I know...? And that capitalized I letter instead of a lower case L kind of ruins it, too, since the Tolkki with an actual L posted that Visions sample of the book and this with I appeared later(?). I can't bother to check though - I just hope I'm right...

There's nothing wrong in everyone of us being friends though, I have no problems with that. :D Cannot take any internet conversation with actually unknown people seriously in personal level anyway. So maybe it's better we remain unknown to each other... :roll:

Anyway, let me add something of my views.
RazielSR wrote:Made him sing like Kakko? No, he sings like Kotipelto, like the old Kotipelto. You are making an anachronism with the Kotipelto-Kakko thing...
There are big differences in our views, because I think, let's call this "the young Kotipelto", sang very loud and easily reached some pretty darn high pitches. Nowadays him, like almost every aging singer, pretty much need to work for those results that some 10 years ago were still pretty easy. That's always been what he does in Strato, also recently he has intentionally, I believe, developed a more rough style of expression. Although this is easier to him now that his voice isn't that clear and strong as, say, in Visions time. On Gather the Faitful though, Kotipelto doesn't do that. His singing is more controlled, not based on noisy high-pitched screams that sometimes (usually) work with a good singer but sometimes might fail, especially when singer ain't that young, steady and eager anymore.

Kotipelto's volume is lower now, he produces stuff more casually, less dynamically and less tonally, thus less stressfully. His presentation is calmer and clearer, also easier to articulate that way. I made a mistake in describing him singing like Kakko though, since Kakko also does this loud high-pitched stuff, maybe mainly even. Although not in ballads, or in Jani songs! That was my point all along. Jani made Kotipelto sing like he tend to make Kakko sing. Be it more casual, less dynamic, "the ballad style"... however you like to call it. They didn't magically make that Destinypelto goodness reappear in the studio, they just used TK's abilities wiser. Also, TK's voice, of course, hasn't changed into Kakko's or anything. :D Only the way of singing.

Although for Kotipelto I have to say I think he has, if not "fill his flaws", then identify and go with the flow anyway. :) Been able to convert his way of singing. His rougher singing familiar to us from Polaris and especially in Stratovarius only adds to the vocal delivery I think (especially in Stratovarius as it's darker, more rock and more psychedelic anyway).
Ragehead91 wrote:And how the fuck were Silence and Epica revolutionary?
It's time for anyone in here to understand that whenever someone states something like this, it's all about perspectives and opinions. I didn't feel the need of explaining mine in this situation as I thought that statement is pretty clear as it is, that people, whether they agree with me or not, can see why I think that way. Apparently I was wrong, and that's fine with me because I'd like to explain - I love when it comes down to this point! :D This takes a little patience, though, so bear with me.

I see music as an artist's own thing, not attached to anything that tries to directionally describe it (unfortunately little). Genres actually irritate me in many ways (I can link to a discussion I once tried to start about this later if you like to see some of my points). For me, power metal is merely a rough description to tell something about this music for example Stratovarius and SA do. Somehow we don't use more accurate descriptions that can be argued about, based on our feelings. We hardly use adjectives in these kind of discussions: we don't tend to describe music as wines, for instance, which is sad, since at worst these genre classifications are merely boxes we try to fit every music possible, which, of course, strips a lot of things off from music itself and only roughly tells us what it resembles. We don't have to think about it that way, though, since the music is still there, we can still hear it, whether we have defined a genre for it or not. But what I like to state here that I see music, say, now, Sonata Arctica, far beyond genre lines (power metal).

For me, Silence was a very fragile, beautiful, multidimensional magnum opus of Sonata Arctica's style, the culmination of their music (that era, anyway; as of yet). Many interesting styles of songs that fit together. The music and words work in so many levels, and separately and together, and intertwine into an emotional entity very rarely heard in music. Every song takes its rightful place in this album of very many branches. I had actually never heard an album that could be interpreted in so many ways and lead to as many conclusions as to what it exactly has to say. It has many of loose concepts, and I don't think anyone has find all of them, if there ever is such as 'all' of its concepts. This is, of course, more based on inaccuracy and rhetoric than some ultimate genius of the maker (Kakko), as if he could see all the branches he composes, all the time. Anyway, you get the point now why I think it's "revolutionary" even. It's deep. Deeper an album I had ever heard before. I've heard Dream Theater, Radiohead, stuff, are good at this as well but I have never taken that close look to their works because, unfortunately, their music generally doesn't feel nearly as good to me as Sonata's, for example.

I underline that this is MY opinion. I didn't try to state "Silence is revolutionary" as a fact. I listen to music for some great moments. To me, to the company I spend time with at each time. It's hearing, feeling, experiencing. And I experienced that record being deep as heck. For me. I also don't listen to this what we call power metal because it's power metal. It's because I like many bands inside of this box that I think shouldn't exist. :) I can generally say I'm kind of fond of that genre, but seriously, there are many blank presentations, or clichéd as hell, or in other ways "bad" works. Impersonal, albums nothing to say lyrically and musically.

As for Kamelot's Epica, I see it a similar album to Silence's style. It is metal music, but in calm, pleasant way, much like Gather the Faitful is, that's why the comparison in the first place. Epica, though, was the first album in this musical direction I heard with so good a concept story; it's about Faust, a play written by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. It's a loose story, so, again, there are many things you just have to figure out and/or imagine, wish for, play, interpret, whatever. Or go by the book, about literally. :D It grands you freedom and is still a complex, yet appealing, grandiose, musically common thread following album with absolutely no bad tracks even and a connected soundscape. That's why I think it's something we've never before seen in music - or at least I haven't.

Gather the Faithful, on the other hand, whether hasn't grown on me still or has no such awesomeness I find in Silence or Epica whatsoever. I haven't been able to identify the most of its lyrics, and somehow I think the songs mostly mirror Sonata Arctica's sound. This I think is what makes it so great to many people in the first place, and I can understand it, and it's intentional of course: "Wow, it's Sonata with Kotipelto on the vocals! A huge combination!" Don't get me wrong: it is. It just hasn't for me worked the way it should have had. Musically it's in the waters of Kamelot / especially Sonata pretty much, and yet it can't reach their level. There is no epic structure; just song after song, I can't find a common thread. I don't think there was to be such. I just happen to generally like more of those works that have it I guess. :D Also, it's funny how hardly any part of hardly any GtF song has attached to my head, although I find it based most on the foundation of being a catchy album, as it apparently has no ultimate stories to tell or new musical directions to take. It has a bit of its own style though, elegant, like an album full of My Selenes. I've seen better ones though. Or then again, it could be that demanding recording after all I only notice its brilliance, say, after two year, or can never find "it" in it.

Because this album really hasn't offered anything special to me yet, I also get bored with its straight through tranquility and serenity (that was meant to be there anyway, it seems; Sonata mainly represents the same). It ain't that metal anymore, as I've used to hear from these guys (like this Kotipelto's "forced" singing and generally more dirty, metaly sound). The idea of being metal; angsty, rough, rebel, is far off reach from this album. This is a rather stupid idea, I admit, but it just occures to me when I seek ways to describe it, as it doesn't give me much in the way it possibly was meant to give, that calm/feel/elegant/epic sector. :>

I agree with this btw:
HinatAArcticA wrote:The rest a ver avarage songs that any power metal band could do. And having Jani and Mikko, both featured on my Sonata Arctica's favorite album Silence, and Timo Kotipelto, one of my favorite singers, the album needed to be a killer and make me feel emotions - -
The expectations were just too high. Could it actually be the main reason I've yet to find this album attractive in the first place?
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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Lurdi » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:59 pm

C'mon Tero! You are a ver bright guy, revise your writing and ortographic mistakes before publishing anything like reviews!!!
By the way, I didn't like the album so much.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Ragehead91 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:05 pm

Silence isn't revolutionary. It is a nice piece of Power Metal/Melodic Metal/however you want to call it. Tony Kakko sounds okay, the songs are nice and catchy but there is nothing groundbreaking about it.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Intiaani » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:16 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:Silence isn't revolutionary. It is a nice piece of Power Metal/Melodic Metal/however you want to call it. Tony Kakko sounds okay, the songs are nice and catchy but there is nothing groundbreaking about it.
Generally, maybe not. That's why people say so(?). Or actually they don't call it groundbreaking, let's put it that way. But for me it is. Isn't that what listening to music is all about?
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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Burning Reflection » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:24 pm

People, it's just another quality power metal album with talented musicians, great vocalists and poetic lyrics. If you didn't know Jani was in SA before this I'm sure there wouldn't be such comparisons made. Not all albums have to be ground breaking as long as you enjoy the music. Personally, I can't get the CD out of my player! All of the songs have some cool part worth listening to! I'd give GtF at least a 9/10! I just hope this isn't a one time thing and that they will actually go on tour!

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Balu » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:21 pm

I personally enjoyed the Cain's Offering album, much more than The Days of Grays, but there is no real reason to compare them, as Gather the Faithful is a pure power metal album, and the new Sonata album is much more complex.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Ragehead91 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:22 pm

Balu wrote:I personally enjoyed the Cain's Offering album, much more than The Days of Grays, but there is no real reason to compare them, as Gather the Faithful is a pure power metal album, and the new Sonata album is much more complex.
But it needs more fucking guitar solos.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Balu » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:30 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:
Balu wrote:I personally enjoyed the Cain's Offering album, much more than The Days of Grays, but there is no real reason to compare them, as Gather the Faithful is a pure power metal album, and the new Sonata album is much more complex.
But it needs more fucking guitar solos.
Agreed, but for a first album, it's great.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Ragehead91 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:36 pm

Balu wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:
Balu wrote:I personally enjoyed the Cain's Offering album, much more than The Days of Grays, but there is no real reason to compare them, as Gather the Faithful is a pure power metal album, and the new Sonata album is much more complex.
But it needs more fucking guitar solos.
Agreed, but for a first album, it's great.
I'm talking about The Days of Grays. But yeah, Cain's Offering also needs more.

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Re: One rewiew: Cain's Offering "Gather the faithful"

Post by Balu » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:40 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:I'm talking about The Days of Grays. But yeah, Cain's Offering also needs more.
Ah, yea, but The Days of Grays was a quite bad album for me, it needs much more than guitar solos to be as good as their other albums.

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