TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

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fernandotcl
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TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by fernandotcl » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:11 pm

Heh, that was odd. I really wanted to see TT live again, I still consider him one of the best, if not the best power metal composer ever.

The problem is, I couldn't find precise information anywhere about the concerts. For me, the workshops and pocket shows would simply not happen at all, they weren't listed anywhere I could find.

The concerts did happen, though. Yea, 2 concerts. One in november and a second one some days ago. I found that out after I read a review. The review said that only 50 or 60 people attended the first concert, and only like 30 or 40 people went to the second concert. :?


I think there are many factors that explain that:

- How many times had TT said he'd play in Brazil before? I distinctly remember 3 occasions in which he said he was going to play in Brazil in the past and it didn't happen.

- I think the idea of an workshop is lousy. I don't want to witness that embarrassing talk with the crowd. TT has never been known for his great interaction with crowds, so the question is, why?

- People were short on money. Many bands played here this year, including our beloved Strato. There was an expensive AC/DC concert a couple weeks ago. Perhaps this was bad timing. This was not a problem for me, but I can understand why it could have been a problem to a chunk of the fanbase.

- Lack of information. I still don't know where to look for information on RR or TT. TT has a gazillion MySpace pages that are reportedly "hacked" all the time, as if we lived in a B-grade action movie. The RR website is always down. Heck, I'm a fan, and I didn't even know they were about to play 2 concerts here!


I understand that less prominent bands have a hard time getting information out to their fans. Heck, some people didn't know about the Stratovarius concert until a couple days before the concert (not me, I was counting the days since the announcement, heh). But we get around it, several specialized news sites publish concert dates. I subscribe to those sites' feeds and routinely visit each band's site to make sure I don't miss anything. And still I couldn't make it to either of the TT concerts.

I think what happened was that TT has given innacurate information about concerts for so long now that the specialized sites don't even publish the info anymore. Sad stuff, I'll have wait even more to see him live again. :(

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Ragehead91 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:39 pm

fernandotcl wrote: - How many times had TT said he'd play in Brazil before? I distinctly remember 3 occasions in which he said he was going to play in Brazil in the past and it didn't happen.
I only remember the 2 times he announced a tour for winter 2008 and early 2009 after the 2008 shows never happened.
fernandotcl wrote:- I think the idea of an workshop is lousy. I don't want to witness that embarrassing talk with the crowd. TT has never been known for his great interaction with crowds, so the question is, why?
Well, seeing the videos that were posted, the reaction was pretty good. Maybe he did it because he couldn't do the promised tours. Maybe he really wants to give the fans some insight and share something with them. Maybe he just wants to feet his own ego and see of the fans still care for him. Who really knows?
fernandotcl wrote:- Lack of information. I still don't know where to look for information on RR or TT. TT has a gazillion MySpace pages that are reportedly "hacked" all the time, as if we lived in a B-grade action movie. The RR website is always down. Heck, I'm a fan, and I didn't even know they were about to play 2 concerts here!
Timo Tolkki Official: http://www.myspace.com/timotolkkiofficial
Revolution Renaissance Official: http://www.myspace.com/revolutionrenaissance
fernandotcl wrote:I think what happened was that TT has given innacurate information about concerts for so long now that the specialized sites don't even publish the info anymore. Sad stuff, I'll have wait even more to see him live again. :(
The thing is that this wasn't a concert tour. I think those 2 or 3 shows he did with Bruno, Gus and those 2 brazilian musician was something that happend spontaneously.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by icecab21 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:14 am

the workshop has been described as some of the best moments of a persons life, so im glad they got more out of it than you. if you have such a negative additude about it, of course the workshop is not for you, but you should not call it a bad idea just because its not for you

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by fernandotcl » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:12 am

Ragehead91 wrote:
fernandotcl wrote: - How many times had TT said he'd play in Brazil before? I distinctly remember 3 occasions in which he said he was going to play in Brazil in the past and it didn't happen.
I only remember the 2 times he announced a tour for winter 2008 and early 2009 after the 2008 shows never happened.
I remember he said they were coming here september 2008, september 2009, and he also announced some date in between, maybe march or may.
Ragehead91 wrote:
fernandotcl wrote:- Lack of information. I still don't know where to look for information on RR or TT. TT has a gazillion MySpace pages that are reportedly "hacked" all the time, as if we lived in a B-grade action movie. The RR website is always down. Heck, I'm a fan, and I didn't even know they were about to play 2 concerts here!
Timo Tolkki Official: http://www.myspace.com/timotolkkiofficial
Revolution Renaissance Official: http://www.myspace.com/revolutionrenaissance
I'll bookmark that.

To put things into perspective:

- Tolkki's Twitter account can be found on the 5th page in the Google search for "Timo Tolkki"
- The other results in the first 5 pages are stuff like this or this (besides the RR MySpace page, many lyrics sites, Wikipedia entries)
- Wikipedia only lists the outdated MySpace page (same thing in the RR entry)

I also don't think MySpace accounts are a replacement for a real site, but it would be passable if at least the RR website redirected to their MySpace or something like that.
RageHead91 wrote:
fernandotcl wrote:I think what happened was that TT has given innacurate information about concerts for so long now that the specialized sites don't even publish the info anymore. Sad stuff, I'll have wait even more to see him live again. :(
The thing is that this wasn't a concert tour. I think those 2 or 3 shows he did with Bruno, Gus and those 2 brazilian musician was something that happend spontaneously.
It could be, but I think those sites would list it if they were sure it was going to happen. Anyways, I think many other people missed those concerts/workshops. TT is popular here, I would be surprised even if only like 500 people attended.
icecab21 wrote:the workshop has been described as some of the best moments of a persons life, so im glad they got more out of it than you. if you have such a negative additude about it, of course the workshop is not for you, but you should not call it a bad idea just because its not for you
I don't like the idea, and that's why I call it a lousy idea. What is wrong with you? Every time someone criticizes something you're quick to say "hey, but you can't say that because some people might like it". Of course someone likes it, some people might love it, but for me, it's a lousy idea. And it's pretty obvious that it's not for me since I said I considered it lousy, what's your point?

And the only negative attitude here is yours. TT's music was, is and will always be a very important part of my life. He wrote many of my all-time favorite songs. I own a lot to him, and I will always respect him as a musician and expect great things out of him.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Ragehead91 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:31 am

fernandotcl wrote:
icecab21 wrote:the workshop has been described as some of the best moments of a persons life, so im glad they got more out of it than you. if you have such a negative additude about it, of course the workshop is not for you, but you should not call it a bad idea just because its not for you
I don't like the idea, and that's why I call it a lousy idea. What is wrong with you? Every time someone criticizes something you're quick to say "hey, but you can't say that because some people might like it". Of course someone likes it, some people might love it, but for me, it's a lousy idea. And it's pretty obvious that it's not for me since I said I considered it lousy, what's your point?
We have had a ton of discusions like this in the past. :lol:

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by icecab21 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:45 am

you made the whole thread in a negative way. your calling it a lousy idea is negative, do you see any positives is saying that you don't like something and complaining about it? you are qustioning why he is doing something, how is that not being negative? you know the answer is because he wants to do it and there is demand for it.

tt is passionate about the workshop, and the workshop is to support his life and his music. a person cannot support his music but not his workshop since they go hand in hand. do you support his music or just part of it? i don't understand how its good for a person to sing about something, but bad if they want to talk to people about it.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by fernandotcl » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:58 am

icecab21 wrote:you made the whole thread in a negative way. your calling it a lousy idea is negative, do you see any positives is saying that you don't like something and complaining about it? you are qustioning why he is doing something, how is that not being negative?
Do you really think that "questioning" is the same thing as "being negative"? If I had to describe what I feel, I'd say I'm frustrated because I couldn't make it to the events.
icecab21 wrote:you know the answer is because he wants to do it and there is demand for it.
I honestly don't think there is a demand for workshops. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the people who attended these events were looking for the pocket concerts. Sure, being in contact with such a notable person is a great thing. But if I had to pick between a regular concert and a workshop, I wouldn't think twice, and I believe not many people around here would either.

To be honest, I think the fact that TT is giving workshops on how to "be in a band" is rather ironic, given all the drama Stratovarius has been through (not that I'm implying he was responsible for the drama, that's way beyond the scope).
icecab21 wrote:tt is passionate about the workshop, and the workshop is to support his life and his music. a person cannot support his music but not his workshop since they go hand in hand. do you support his music or just part of it? i don't understand how its good for a person to sing about something, but bad if they want to talk to people about it.
Passionate about the workshop? I don't think TT is the kind of musician who enjoys doing live performances, let alone having the kind of interaction he needs to have with the crowd during such workshops. I think it's an awkward situation for him (and for the crowd, to a smaller extent). If he's having fun, then great. I just can't picture him having fun with this.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by icecab21 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:10 am

I think it’s negative to say "I thinks it's a lousy idea, why is he doing this?". The fact that you refuse to believe tolkki if he says that he wants to do it, or that he enjoys doing it is also a negative reaction.

Why ask the question if you already think that tt hates it and no one wants to see it?

They are setting up the workshops in Europe and America for later, I can't imagine they would do this if the tour was a loss and there was no demand. They are making a DVD of it, a business will not do that if they are losing money by making that decision.

There are musicians here that would prefer the workshop I think. Anyone can play the songs and it does not make a difference. Hearing someone talk about their philosophy and give advice and talk about the music is a much rarer event. These guys give so many concerts, very rare to have this kind of thing. I’m in the group that would rather have a hour lesson with a musician than hear a concert. Maybe it’s not a general public thing, but this is more important to musicians

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by JensJohansson » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:34 am

icecab21 wrote:I think it’s negative to say "I thinks it's a lousy idea, why is he doing this?". The fact that you refuse to believe tolkki if he says that he wants to do it, or that he enjoys doing it is also a negative reaction.
You sound very negative here about fernandotcl's opinion... why are you so negative... :cry: :cry: :cry:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway, perhaps the dude just doesn't like seminars and types about it in a forum. It happens..

I disagree a little about the seminar bit, I'm sure it could be an interesting talk, but I'm not your typical rock fan probably. I've said it here before, normal people are in it for the music, not a "peek behind the curtain" where we musicians talk about our boring selves. It's a bitter pill for a narcissist sometimes (I see that in myself, too) -- the music itself moves people much more than you could ever do as a person. It's not golf we do (which can bore plants to tears), but music (which squeezes people's hearts and moves mountains). Much anything about ourselves or our personal lives pales in comparison to the power of the music...

Anyway the more important issue raised here is the chaotic promotion. I agree completely with you fernanotcl, what you write echoes my thoughts pretty well (except for the hate for seminars bit perhaps.) Tolkki would be wise to take some of your advice..

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; he should arrange things in a way where he could concentrate on music and let someone else handle publicity, logistics, legal, financing, etc, affairs, or at least he should listen more to advice, and/or get friends or band members who would dare to give him "negative" (meaning realistic) advice without the fear of reprisals or hostility.

He thinks he is very skilled at marketing things etc, but he is not. The big reason he got as far as he did as an artist is because he can write songs... not because of any of his publicity and marketing "wizardry."

They had a perfectly good RR website, which was built and maintained over several months, which probably was getting some traffic, and then he just deleted it because ... WTF, I have no clear idea, but I think I remember it was one of those "let's pretend the band is dead" gags again. (Rising from the dead after a kiss of judas.. there are some echoes of a certain central character of the bible's new testament : )

Anyway the server is still there, and then they got another domain even. But neither domain displays anything that gives a hint about upcoming live stuff, nor a link to the myspace where there is a schedule. Even a simple redirect would have been better than a white page on one domain and an "a decision was made to fire some people and the page is under construction" note on the other.

Stuff like that means exactly what you wrote: only 40 people show up for a gig. How the hell would they know there was a gig, and if they did know, where to go?!

Most people don't hit google every day and spend a few minutes hunting for an official source for gig info for all of the bands and musicians they may like, "just in case"...

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by icecab21 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:23 am

Negative about negative, as supposed to being positive about negative?
Basically I disagree that it’s a bad choice for tt to be doing the workshops. From what I have heard from it, it was interactive and people were sharing their stories and music and working together and all. If the workshop is about helping people in the music business, thus creating more people that can play more music for more people, I think that’s better than simply playing for a person and not helping them play for people.

When I look at how the seminar was advertised, it was not for the normal person who just wanted to listen to music, but for those who wanted to talk about music and spirituality and get some help and make some music connections.


Is a college music professor better off being a music teacher or touring around playing music, or a mix?

I just got a book by victor wooten about music and spirituality, would it have been best for him to have just played music rather than to have done both?


As for the marketing of this. A seminar is better when where only so many people are. I see people advocating for smaller class sizes, perhaps there are those that would like 500 in their class, but for me, the smaller the better. In the meet and greets, the ideal for me would be me and the band, not me and 500 other people sharing time. I like the idea of word of mouth for this and just on a website to perhaps get those most passionate about the seminar in the seminar.


Perhaps One example of marketing that worked for tolkki was getting Jens Johansson

As for the music, tolkki has stratovarius to spread that message for him as well as so many cover bands that play the music.

if tolkki got where he did because of his songwriting, than it makes sense to me that a songwriting workshop would be helpful to other people that write songs.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Ragehead91 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:28 pm

icecab21 wrote: Perhaps One example of marketing that worked for tolkki was getting Jens Johansson
IIRC Johansson came to Tolkki after he read that he was searching for a Keyboarder and not the other way around.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Aldaron » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:52 pm

icecab21 wrote: Perhaps One example of marketing that worked for tolkki was getting Jens Johansson
That's not marketing. That's enhancing production.
Let's Rage!

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by JensJohansson » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:23 pm

icecab21 wrote:Negative about negative, as supposed to being positive about negative?
Well sure, if the logic is that "negative" is bad in and of itself, why not point out your unabashed negativity.

And then I'll go on to "why are you so negative about cancer?"

As for the rest of the original post though, there is that interesting duality between "being overly negative" (or pessimistic) and "being realistic".

There's also an "optimistic"/"realistic" duality.

Some of the hardest choices in life are related to that, on a larger scale too: Lives are ruined or saved, markets tumble or rise, wars are lost or won, and governments rise and fall.
Ragehead91 wrote:
icecab21 wrote: Perhaps One example of marketing that worked for tolkki was getting Jens Johansson
IIRC Johansson came to Tolkki after he read that he was searching for a Keyboarder and not the other way around.
He actually contacted someone who contacted someone who contacted me directly. Via fax -- this was the last millennium. On some weird hunch, I didn't throw the fax in the trash and instead asked TT to send a CD. I liked the songs ("songwriting win!") I faxed him back "sure, why not". He offered an insane amount of money, which was a bit weird. In the end I had to haggle with him to bring the amount of money down from "optimistic" to "realistic". I guess I couldn't make a story like this up even if i wanted to. :lol: A few weeks later I flew to Helsinki for the Episode sessions..

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Plisken » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:14 pm

JensJohansson wrote:And then I'll go on to "why are you so negative about cancer?"
LOL!

JensJohansson wrote:He actually contacted someone who contacted someone who contacted me directly. Via fax -- this was the last millennium. On some weird hunch, I didn't throw the fax in the trash and instead asked TT to send a CD. I liked the songs ("songwriting win!") I faxed him back "sure, why not". He offered an insane amount of money, which was a bit weird. In the end I had to haggle with him to bring the amount of money down from "optimistic" to "realistic". I guess I couldn't make a story like this up even if i wanted to. :lol: A few weeks later I flew to Helsinki for the Episode sessions..
oh? I remember Tolkki said in an interview somewhere that he got you by posting an ad in some magazine saying he was looking for a keyboard player like Jens Johansson. Apparently you saw this ad and called him up and was like im not "like" jens johansson, I AM jens johansson! I always did find it fishy, just didnt seem realistic that something like that would happen.

Now that I think about it this was from that RR interview he posted on their website.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Ragehead91 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:51 pm

Plisken wrote:
JensJohansson wrote:He actually contacted someone who contacted someone who contacted me directly. Via fax -- this was the last millennium. On some weird hunch, I didn't throw the fax in the trash and instead asked TT to send a CD. I liked the songs ("songwriting win!") I faxed him back "sure, why not". He offered an insane amount of money, which was a bit weird. In the end I had to haggle with him to bring the amount of money down from "optimistic" to "realistic". I guess I couldn't make a story like this up even if i wanted to. :lol: A few weeks later I flew to Helsinki for the Episode sessions..
oh? I remember Tolkki said in an interview somewhere that he got you by posting an ad in some magazine saying he was looking for a keyboard player like Jens Johansson. Apparently you saw this ad and called him up and was like im not "like" jens johansson, I AM jens johansson! I always did find it fishy, just didnt seem realistic that something like that would happen.

Now that I think about it this was from that RR interview he posted on their website.
This is also where I have my version from. Tolkki also said that in the same ad he was also searching for a drummer who could play fast double-bass drums.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by icecab21 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:56 pm

the logic is to be positive about something to counter a negative and i just did not use that
That's not marketing. That's enhancing production.
How is it not a function of marketing to use your assets to attract an employee? People were contacted, tools were used, deals were made, its marketing. The music was a marketing tool. The networking was a marketing tool.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by JensJohansson » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:13 pm

Plisken wrote:oh? I remember Tolkki said in an interview somewhere that he got you by posting an ad in some magazine saying he was looking for a keyboard player like Jens Johansson. Apparently you saw this ad and called him up and was like im not "like" jens johansson, I AM jens johansson! I always did find it fishy, just didnt seem realistic that something like that would happen.
I think that's just a misunderstanding and nothing fishy. I believe he did put an ad with some wording like that, in a local Finnish paper, you know, what today would be equivalent to post it on Craigslist, but I never saw that. He also sent a fax to Burrn who forwarded it to my brother who forwarded it to me.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by JensJohansson » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:33 pm

icecab21 wrote:How is it not a function of marketing to use your assets to attract an employee? People were contacted, tools were used, deals were made, its marketing. The music was a marketing tool. The networking was a marketing tool.
I think there is simply some word definition issue for you here with regard to the word "marketing".

Of course, if you're in the polycarbonate manufacturing business, music is just a tool which enables you to push more polycarbonate into the the CD pressing plant markets...

Anyway to be clear I never had a huge problem with TT's composing, music production, legal, financing and marketing skills until 2004, when I (and indeed he himself) started to question some of those skills (but still not the first two).

Sure there were some signs before, but the good by far outweighed the bad and the band was doing good, so "the benefit of the doubt" was very much in the air. I do remember writing an email to TT (2001 or something) where I said I pretty much said I still trusted his decisions, but if he would ask me to get a perm or suggest that we invade Russia I'd have to think seriously about doing something else. :lol:

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by icecab21 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:48 pm

here is one definition
Marketing is the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large. (Approved October 2007)
http://www.marketingpower.com/AboutAMA/ ... eting.aspx

when I have used definitions like this one in my school work i have not been told that i am wrong by my teachers.

By music as marketing, I mean his music was used to potential attract you to become part of the band and it worked.



jens with a perm, i guess that will just have to be photoshoped.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by JensJohansson » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:39 am

icecab21 wrote:here is one definition
Marketing is the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large. (Approved October 2007)
http://www.marketingpower.com/AboutAMA/ ... eting.aspx

when I have used definitions like this one in my school work i have not been told that i am wrong by my teachers.

By music as marketing, I mean his music was used to potential attract you to become part of the band and it worked.

jens with a perm, i guess that will just have to be photoshoped.
I used to have a perm in the 80s ... it was the 80s!

That definition of "marketing" seems to me somehow include just about every aspect of human existence.. I mean, if I pick up a piece of trash from the street and place it in a trash can, it's an activity (and perhaps also a process?) which delivers a valuable offering for society at large. And Al Qaeda is an institution which communicates valuable offerings to its partners. These examples are not however what I usually would understand with "marketing" though.

Anyway, in music industry lingo, Marketing is basically what someone does (traditionally it's the record company) to make the consumer aware of the music existing, and making the consumer part with its money. Placing ads, dealing with record stores, generating attention in public media, bribing radio stations for air play, those sorts of things.

Sometimes Marketing and Publicity are considered separate animals. Probably because media content is supposed to have a stance of independence and impartiality (and at least in theory it does).

Playing gigs sometimes has been considered Marketing, at least if you did it at a loss. Mostly to me playing gigs is fun :) But anyway ometimes in the old days when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, labels would pay you what's called "tour support" to offset losses when you did a tour -- because playing live promotes record sales.

In today's world all of the old school music industry concepts are dissolving and borderlines are blurring quite a bit. But no matter which century you happen to be living in, it still makes a lot of sense to have people know when and where you play a gig.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Arkash » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:01 am

or suggest that we invade Russia I'd have to think seriously about doing something else. Laughing
Well, musically speaking, I think the Russian wouldnt disaprove! :D
Through the storms we've wandered
Many mountains we have climbed
But all the bad times are behind
The road is free - I'm coming home

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by icecab21 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:16 am

I would consider throwing away trash a marketing activity if you were being witnessed or talked about it later. That would be promoting the idea of throwing away trash to others or promoting a social status to others. People then get to make a choice as to value your choice or yourself and whether or not they would like to engage in similar behavior or in further interaction

Just to continue what I was going for, tolkki made you aware of his music with hopes that you would join him in creating music. I think that is essentially the same as a company showing a product with hopes that person will buy that product.

I consider gigs marketing, especially when the bands has social statement lyrics like stratovarius does. I feel the songs promote certain ideas over other ideas. I consider the ideas to be the product as well, and not just the money transferred or the merchandise that is bought. I feel that when a band plays a concert it promotes the idea of creating music and having social interaction with a listener. Any ideas in the lyrics are also being promoted for people to consider whether or not those ideas will add value to their life. Being music, I think its social marketing for a band to interact with others and say that the bands enjoys a certain kind of music and others can form a community and culture around that music.

Maybe I have an incredibly broad definition, but I would pretty much consider any social interaction to be marketing/promotion in one context or another.

Not knowing what happened marketing wise for this, I can just say that in Seattle it’s pretty much down to word of mouth and checking with venues for their schedules. There are a few magazines and newspapers that have schedules in them. A percent of fans is down to the opening bands having to sell tickets as part of their duty. I figure a venue would want to put its schedule out online. Maybe since in Seattle we only have may a few hundred people come to these things as most, having 50 people go a workshop does not seem so tiny to me. I figure that workshop is geared more towards songwriters and musicians than a general population.

Speaking off Seattle promotion and flyers, the stratovarius flyer had Jari in it

Plisken
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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Plisken » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:10 am

JensJohansson wrote:I used to have a perm in the 80s ... it was the 80s!
lol it was the 80s, the most used excuse to explain actions done in that time period!

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robocop656
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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by robocop656 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:29 am

PAGANINI!!!

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by JensOfSweden » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:50 pm

icecab21 wrote:I think it’s negative to say "I thinks it's a lousy idea, why is he doing this?". The fact that you refuse to believe tolkki if he says that he wants to do it, or that he enjoys doing it is also a negative reaction.

Why ask the question if you already think that tt hates it and no one wants to see it?

They are setting up the workshops in Europe and America for later, I can't imagine they would do this if the tour was a loss and there was no demand. They are making a DVD of it, a business will not do that if they are losing money by making that decision.

There are musicians here that would prefer the workshop I think. Anyone can play the songs and it does not make a difference. Hearing someone talk about their philosophy and give advice and talk about the music is a much rarer event. These guys give so many concerts, very rare to have this kind of thing. I’m in the group that would rather have a hour lesson with a musician than hear a concert. Maybe it’s not a general public thing, but this is more important to musicians
Ok, please stop being such a wise-ass about his opinions. I actually agree about the workshop thing, it doesn't seem that interesting imo. Tolkki is awesome but he should play more

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Beast_Pete » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:24 pm

@icecab: I find more negativity in you always trying to contradict other people's opinions and feelings. Negative comments are not bad in theirselves, they can sometimes help in improving and changing into a positive direction, but trying to attack others just for the sake of attacking is the negativity, and I'm sure noone likes that attitude of yours. You are a smart poster, and I agree with you in many things, but when you start going into discussions just to say the opposite what the other says, then I find that absolutely frivilous.
"Mikor az utolsó véred is elfolyék,
S a tested is a porba hullék,
Akkor is van még remény,
Mert a lelked továbbra is él."

- Mark Swanson -
from the book, Nick's legend

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Aldaron » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:53 pm

Beast_Pete wrote:@icecab: I find more negativity in you always trying to contradict other people's opinions and feelings. Negative comments are not bad in theirselves, they can sometimes help in improving and changing into a positive direction, but trying to attack others just for the sake of attacking is the negativity, and I'm sure no one likes that attitude of yours. You are a smart poster, and I agree with you in many things, but when you start going into discussions just to say the opposite what the other says, then I find that absolutely frivolous.
QFT. Gotta agree fully with this. I don't like to be confrontational most of the time, and I also try to give IC the benefit of the doubt, but his constant oppositional and rather nebulous posts are not productive and hijack way too many topics. Stop always trying to have the last word, dude, and let other people have their opinions, even if you do disagree with them. You are frequently given that courtesy yourself.
Let's Rage!

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Burning Reflection » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:00 pm

icecab21 wrote:here is one definition
Marketing is the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large. (Approved October 2007)
http://www.marketingpower.com/AboutAMA/ ... eting.aspx

when I have used definitions like this one in my school work i have not been told that i am wrong by my teachers.

By music as marketing, I mean his music was used to potential attract you to become part of the band and it worked.
Experience and knowledge is not everything. When you get stuck in definitions and terms it restricts the boundaries of understanding to a confine. Marketing or not, Jens' keyboard prowess was noticed and through mutual interest and communication he joined the band.


I used to have a perm in the 80s ... it was the 80s!
I love this video! Perms galore! :lol: Psychocam! :lol:

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by icecab21 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:21 pm

If you guys read my posts, I did get away from being negative about that post and posted the reasons why I think the tour is a good thing for tolkki to be doing
He likes it
Others like it
I would like this kind of workshop as it would be benefit for my interests as a songwriter.
I see value in teaching others and sharing experiences
The concerts have a mix of talk and music so he is playing music as well.
I think tolkki should make the decisions that he is passionate about,
Not everyone needs to try for a maximized crowd, sometimes it’s about a more intimate setting.

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Re: TT/RR concerts in São Paulo

Post by Ragehead91 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:37 pm

icecab21 wrote:If you guys read my posts, I did get away from being negative about that post and posted the reasons why I think the tour is a good thing for tolkki to be doing
He likes it
Others like it
I would like this kind of workshop as it would be benefit for my interests as a songwriter.
I see value in teaching others and sharing experiences
The concerts have a mix of talk and music so he is playing music as well.
I think tolkki should make the decisions that he is passionate about,
Not everyone needs to try for a maximized crowd, sometimes it’s about a more intimate setting.
This isn't the point. The point is that everytime someone posts a opinion about something and that opinion is negative, you come on and tell us "YOU CAN'T SAY THAT BECAUSE BLABLABLABLABLA". We can say it because IT IS OUR GODDAMN OPINION!

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