Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by Plisken » Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:28 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:@Plisken, its your country, too, because I saw a post where you said you live in California. ;)
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yah I know thats why I see where he is coming from. I never want to see California or any state in runes. Sure the US has its problems but I still love it despite it all. I do strongly believe that something should be done about these groups but it must be known that 98% of Muslims do not support them and they are normal people like everyone else. There are the bad and good like in any other religion and race. That is the only point I want to get across. Way to much do I come by people who think if your a muslim then your soul reason in life is to kill anything to do with freedom. Me I dont believe in organized religions but so im sure my view would different of one from a person who believe in ether religion.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by icecab21 » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:13 pm

Part of the point is that this can't just be a war of killing each other, it also needs a human factor and is a war for the heart though the way we treat each other. It would be ideal to get the leaders of all countries to fight against the idea of people coming into the west and imposing their views on us, yet it also needs to be considered that maybe others feel the west has tried to take over their lands and impose their values on them. We can call each other lunatics and the devils spawn all we want, yet I don’t see how that helps create a war against the desire to control one another by force and resources.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by Shurik » Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:31 pm

Hamas helped out the Palestinian people when they had no money, could get no food because of the sanctions the UN put up and the heavy restrictions Israel put up.
Bullshit. The restrictions wouldn't have been there in a first place if Hamas wouldn't fire rockets at Israeli towns, deliberately trying to kill innocent civilians. And the rockets is only the recent fashion, let's not forget all those suicide bombings those inhuman creeps are responsible for. Hamas does not help anyone, they are the problem. You think anyone in Israel wants to live in a constant fear of being blown up on the way home or while sitting in the cafe? Hell, I almost took the bus that was blown up in Haifa 6 years ago ...

I completely lost any sort of sympathy or empathy towards Palestinians when there were celebrations in Gaza of the brutal murder of 16 kids in Tel-Aviv discoteque in June 2001. If they support such an actions, they deserve everything that's happening to them.

You keep telling that Hamas and such are minority, so why the majority woun't tell them to stop? Does the majority think that what they do is completely OK?
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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by miditek » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:03 pm

Shurik wrote:I completely lost any sort of sympathy or empathy towards Palestinians when there were celebrations in Gaza of the brutal murder of 16 kids in Tel-Aviv discoteque in June 2001. If they support such an actions, they deserve everything that's happening to them.
Let us also not forget that they were dancing in the streets immediately following the 9/11 attacks as well. They are fortunate that I was not the president, since I would have dispatched a few squadrons of B-52's and would have leveled Gaza and the West Bank in one fell swoop. If they want to be martyrs for Allah, then be all means- humor them!

I've never had sympathy for them, and never will. They are merely the puppets of Damascus, Riyadh, and other despotic regimes in the Middle East. Anyone that sends their children out to the front lines with the deliberate intention of getting them killed for propaganda purposes cannot be reasoned with.
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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by Plisken » Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:37 pm

Shurik wrote:
Hamas helped out the Palestinian people when they had no money, could get no food because of the sanctions the UN put up and the heavy restrictions Israel put up.
Bullshit. The restrictions wouldn't have been there in a first place if Hamas wouldn't fire rockets at Israeli towns, deliberately trying to kill innocent civilians. And the rockets is only the recent fashion, let's not forget all those suicide bombings those inhuman creeps are responsible for. Hamas does not help anyone, they are the problem. You think anyone in Israel wants to live in a constant fear of being blown up on the way home or while sitting in the cafe? Hell, I almost took the bus that was blown up in Haifa 6 years ago ...

True enough im not arguing that, im just saying this is the method they used to gain support of the people. In the time that(mostly Gaza) the people needed money, food, etc Hamas was there for them. So the people in turn went, hey they helped us out then why not in our government to?
Shurik wrote:I completely lost any sort of sympathy or empathy towards Palestinians when there were celebrations in Gaza of the brutal murder of 16 kids in Tel-Aviv discoteque in June 2001. If they support such an actions, they deserve everything that's happening to them.
what? where did you get this bit of news from(if you are going to link it, it better not be an israel or islamic site, they will both have bias, link something like BBC)? The normal Palestinian people that live in gaza? First I know that can not be true because these people strongly believe in there religion, They dont celebrate murders or they go straight to hell. 2nd these are normal human beings like you and I, if anything they are disgusted with it, they aren't barbarians. The majority of Palestine dont support kill people. Especially the pretty popular these days "They send there children out to be suicide bombers". Thats pure bullshit, no Mother would send there child to die.[/quote]
Shurik wrote:You keep telling that Hamas and such are minority, so why the majority woun't tell them to stop? Does the majority think that what they do is completely OK?
Very good question, The answer unfortunately is a sad one. The reason the majority wont tell them to stop because ever time someone from the majority does, groups like Hamas, and Al-Qaeda tell them they are not religious, they will go to hell, and put them out there in front of there respective groups supports for screwtany, to put fear in them(they are terrorist so its what they do best) so in the end they truly believe they aren't religious enough. Muslims are usually very much into there religion. Pretty much it comes down to no one has the guts to get tossed around by these groups long enough to do something about them. They do this with muslim countries too.
miditek wrote:Let us also not forget that they were dancing in the streets immediately following the 9/11 attacks as well. They are fortunate that I was not the president, since I would have dispatched a few squadrons of B-52's and would have leveled Gaza and the West Bank in one fell swoop. If they want to be martyrs for Allah, then be all means- humor them!

I've never had sympathy for them, and never will. They are merely the puppets of Damascus, Riyadh, and other despotic regimes in the Middle East. Anyone that sends their children out to the front lines with the deliberate intention of getting them killed for propaganda purposes cannot be reasoned with.
Like I said above no one willingly sends out there children to die. That has to be the biggest piece of propaganda that has ever been told. I want you to show me a video where there are mothers saying they sent kids to kill israels by blowing them self's up. These are people just like you and I. Now Hamas on the hand is a different story they have problem send suicide bombers. People have to learn to separate the normal people that live there and have lived there for many generations. And these groups like Hamas who always go around saying they are the voice of every muslim.

Also carpt bombing an enitre cities is probably not the answer, you will be killing mostly innocent people who have never killed anyone, mothers, fathers, children, the old, etc. What did they personally do to deserve a fate like that? If you were president you advisors would tell you that doing that action will probably start an all out war with every musilm country since you would have committed genocide(also you would have the UN on your ass for it too). And I hope that day never comes because then Israel will be in a very bad place in terms of location if they were going to go to war. They are surrounded entirely by muslim countries.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by NeonVomit » Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:37 am

Haven't you heard, if they do it to us it's okay to do it to them.
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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by stratohawk » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:33 am

miditek wrote:They are fortunate that I was not the president, since I would have dispatched a few squadrons of B-52's and would have leveled Gaza and the West Bank in one fell swoop. If they want to be martyrs for Allah, then be all means- humor them!
Holy Jesus... :roll: I kneel down and thank God that you were not president, I guess then... But probably GWB & Co. had the same intention, they just were held back by some stupid left-winged traitors.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by icecab21 » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:52 am

Well in the next election all we have are left wing nuts since neither McCain or Obama vouch for the shit that bush did or the world war that miditek seems to dream about. Both of the candidates are just too humanitarian and believe that we can't just win through violence. I’m sure their ideas of winning hearts and minds are just part of that liberal craziness that is destroying America.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by miditek » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:06 am

stratohawk wrote:
miditek wrote:They are fortunate that I was not the president, since I would have dispatched a few squadrons of B-52's and would have leveled Gaza and the West Bank in one fell swoop. If they want to be martyrs for Allah, then be all means- humor them!
Holy Jesus... :roll: I kneel down and thank God that you were not president, I guess then... But probably GWB & Co. had the same intention, they just were held back by some stupid left-winged traitors.
Perhaps you've forgotten the USAAF was sending 1,000+ B-17 raids over Schweinfurt, Berlin, and other places, and that the civilian death tolls there were nothing short of catastrophic. (This is a historical fact, by the way)

The Palestinians, if that's what we wish to call this mish mash of Arabs of mixed ancestry (even Arafat himself was an Egyptian) were truly docile or peaceful would not be giving aid and comfort to the enemy- that being Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other groups, nor producing television programs teaching and encouraging their children to become jihadists and martyrs. If they wish to dance in the streets publicly and denounce America WHILE OUR BUILDINGS ARE ON FIRE AND OUR OWN PEOPLE ARE BURNING- PARTICULARLY POLICE OFFICERS AND FIREMEN, then it's a given that what they are doing behind closed doors is far more sinister.

The U.S. won its previous wars because it was committed to total war- where the entire country was mobilized, with clear cut objectives for victory.

Perhaps you don't know very much about their history, but these primates have been kicked out of all sorts of places for casing trouble essentially everywhere they go, and they have been doing it for generations now- starting with Jordan (which essentially is THEIR COUNTRY TO BEGIN WITH) in the 1960's after Arafat's gang tried to assassinate King Hussein. They were ran out of Lebanon, and Arafat was also forced to leave Tunisia!

There can be a people that cause so many problems that brute force is the only thing that they will understand and make them change their ways. Germany and Japan were two such countries at one time, and only brutal force could make them capitulate.

Now when the occupation of both countries began- there was certainly a sense of urgency to get people fed, and to get things back to normal- with George Marshall leading the efforts in postwar Europe, and General Douglas MacArthur doing the same in Japan- both were wise in the fact that they wanted to get the countries rebuilt and the people working as quickly as possible- but the rebuilding of the countries did not begin until the end of hostilities and the beginning (for a time) of martial law.

The Palestinians are little more than puppets or dogs on a leash as far as their Arab "brethren" are concerned- to be cynically used in order to maintain a constant state of hostility against the State of Israel- and this has gone on for decades, and don't think for a moment that other terror sponsoring states don't want to up the ante- they are tired of the status quo, and many want to get on with the long promised "liberation" of Jerusalem.

What is going to happen is that all of this 'tit for tat' will eventually spin out of control, and many, many millions will die in this mad quest for getting rid of Israel. A second Holocaust will never be tolerated. Not by Israel itself, not by America, but most importantly, God Himself will be the one that stops "The Last Jihad".

I believe that God loves ALL people, but do yourself a favor and read the Bible and see for yourself what the enemies of Israel can expect in the last days.
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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by browneyedgirl » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:22 am

icecab21 wrote:Well in the next election all we have are left wing nuts since neither McCain or Obama vouch for the shit that bush did or the world war that miditek seems to dream about.
He's not dreaming about a world war. miditek is informing people of what MIGHT happen, if anyone has got sense enough to read&listen. What miditek is discussing is the REAL world, not some fairy tale land that many people believe exists. Such a war is not something anyone wants to happen, but if things don't change it will happen sooner or later. Welcome to reality. :)

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by icecab21 » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:16 am

That was a response to him saying that if he was president he would bomb Gaza after 911 and go after all the Palestine and that all the collateral damage would be a necessary evil to prevent an even greater evil. Would that not have started a war? Now it seems like he said we should have gone into World War 2 mode and had a full fledged planed attack.

Now this group in Israel is also a mixed batch of ethnic groups as well. It’s not like any of these group are the exact genetic tribes of the Old Testament. a old testament that advocates all kinds of fun things like genocide and laws of death that the Muslims based their books off of and some groups still use old world rules.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by stratohawk » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:51 am

miditek wrote:
stratohawk wrote:
miditek wrote:They are fortunate that I was not the president, since I would have dispatched a few squadrons of B-52's and would have leveled Gaza and the West Bank in one fell swoop. If they want to be martyrs for Allah, then be all means- humor them!
Holy Jesus... :roll: I kneel down and thank God that you were not president, I guess then... But probably GWB & Co. had the same intention, they just were held back by some stupid left-winged traitors.
Perhaps you've forgotten the USAAF was sending 1,000+ B-17 raids over Schweinfurt, Berlin, and other places, and that the civilian death tolls there were nothing short of catastrophic. (This is a historical fact, by the way)
Yeah... I very much appreciate the action of the Allied Forces against the 3rd Reich. You might probably understand that I don't appreciate the high death tolls amongst civilians, and especially such needless massacres like in Dresden. It was of course the same warfare that Hitler was leading, so maybe there was no other possibility to win the war... But comparing this to the situation of the Palestinian people is IMO far-fetched.
The Palestinians, if that's what we wish to call this mish mash of Arabs of mixed ancestry (even Arafat himself was an Egyptian) were truly docile or peaceful would not be giving aid and comfort to the enemy- that being Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other groups, nor producing television programs teaching and encouraging their children to become jihadists and martyrs. If they wish to dance in the streets publicly and denounce America WHILE OUR BUILDINGS ARE ON FIRE AND OUR OWN PEOPLE ARE BURNING- PARTICULARLY POLICE OFFICERS AND FIREMEN, then it's a given that what they are doing behind closed doors is far more sinister.
Nobody is defending somebody who is celebrating the death of thousands of people. But what you absolutely neglect is to look in the past and ask yourself how all that hatred could arise. Those people (and most of them are, as in every country of this world) way too simple to understand politics. They are used by their radical leaders (even as living shields - imagine, their own people...), that does not make them accomplices. That whole conflict has to be solved, and the Palestinian people should get human conditions to live in. Or this vicious circle will never end.
There can be a people that cause so many problems that brute force is the only thing that they will understand and make them change their ways. Germany and Japan were two such countries at one time, and only brutal force could make them capitulate.
See, you might not believe it (because as far as I can see you only devide in good and bad, in your friends/supporters and your enemies), but I have a differentiated perspective on war as last political action. As much as I appreciate and support the military actions in Afghanistan (and I wish our German government would give the troops there more support), as much I disagree with the war that was started in Iraq (two battlefields which have nothing to do with each other; the "front in the war against terrorism" in Iraq could only arise AFTER Hussein was dispossessed - oh and please never use the argument that the US helped the world to get rid of a bad dictator. US governments in the past supported many despotes and dictators, yes even helped them to come into power by destabilizing governments that were "incommodious"). I am condeming the use of the Atomic Bomb against Japan, or at least against the civil population, though of course I cannot answer you the question whether its use prevented the continuation and this way much more dead people or not.
Now when the occupation of both countries began- there was certainly a sense of urgency to get people fed, and to get things back to normal- with George Marshall leading the efforts in postwar Europe, and General Douglas MacArthur doing the same in Japan- both were wise in the fact that they wanted to get the countries rebuilt and the people working as quickly as possible- but the rebuilding of the countries did not begin until the end of hostilities and the beginning (for a time) of martial law.
In contrast to what the victorious forces did after WWI (in fact sowing the seeds for the next war), the actions after WWII were maybe the best example how to deal with the beaten enemy after such long and cruel conflicts. Honor to the men that were in power and positions to decide those plans at that time. Maybe someone should think about that again: Giving food and humanely conditions for the people in the West Bank. A friend of mine was providing civil service in Israel, but he also visited the West Bank. He told me, when he left the Israel checkpoint and entered the West Bank, it seemed to him like he was seeing the apocalypse. Those people live in such inhuman conditions - maybe this would be an approach to change the situation, hm?
I believe that God loves ALL people, but do yourself a favor and read the Bible and see for yourself what the enemies of Israel can expect in the last days.
I have read (and am still reading) the Bible several times. Maybe you should read the Gospels again. Obviously you don't give them a very high importance.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by Plisken » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:06 am

miditek wrote:The Palestinians, if that's what we wish to call this mish mash of Arabs of mixed ancestry (even Arafat himself was an Egyptian) were truly docile or peaceful would not be giving aid and comfort to the enemy- that being Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other groups, nor producing television programs teaching and encouraging their children to become jihadists and martyrs. If they wish to dance in the streets publicly and denounce America WHILE OUR BUILDINGS ARE ON FIRE AND OUR OWN PEOPLE ARE BURNING- PARTICULARLY POLICE OFFICERS AND FIREMEN, then it's a given that what they are doing behind closed doors is far more sinister.
Mixed ancestry? what relevance does this have with anything? We live in the USA! There are people that have been here for many generations that are originally from different countries in the world. Not many natives left since we wiped most of them out. Also the people dont produce TV show's encouraging their children to become jihadists and martyrs, the radical groups are. You have make this separation. Only news and video I saw of people dancing in 9/11 were the groups them self's. Why are you surprised about that though? When a group archives something significant they will of course be happy, its sicking that why would be but still.
9/11 was terrible, worst day in US history and the people responsible for it must be bought to justice. But What happens in Palestine and Israel almost everyday? You cant compare. 9/11 is overshadowed by it. For so many decades the people living on both side have been living in fear, and every once in a while get put in a little war or battles. Suicide bombers, sanctions, military control,etc. In one day we had a taste of what they go threw all the time.
miditek wrote:Perhaps you don't know very much about their history, but these primates have been kicked out of all sorts of places for casing trouble essentially everywhere they go, and they have been doing it for generations now- starting with Jordan (which essentially is THEIR COUNTRY TO BEGIN WITH) in the 1960's after Arafat's gang tried to assassinate King Hussein. They were ran out of Lebanon, and Arafat was also forced to leave Tunisia!
What are you talking about? maybe the people that were in the government. Before World War 1, Muslims, Jews, and Christians live there peacefully with not much problem. At the time they were under the ottoman empires rule. Palestine wasn't a country that just empty. Or a country that only had Jews, but then these Christians and Muslims came in deciding they want to live there too and kick everyone out. Before Israel is created, there where all kind of people living there, most for generations. Then the UN gave a the Jews a piece of Palestine just for them and little by little Israel start to expand. and you know the rest.

miditek wrote:I believe that God loves ALL people, but do yourself a favor and read the Bible and see for yourself what the enemies of Israel can expect in the last days.
Huh? I think I will, I dont know if im reading this wrong but does it literally say "what the enemies of Israel can expect in the last days"

Israel hasnt even been around a century and there's a reference to it in the bible?

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by miditek » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:03 am

Plisken wrote:Israel hasn't even been around a century and there's a reference to it in the bible?
There are references to Israel all through the Bible. Moreover, there is plenty of archaeological evidence that Israel existed thousands of years ago. Take the Wailing Wall in today's modern Jerusalem, for instance. It is the one of the remnants of the Second Temple, which was built in the fifth century B.C. It was destroyed by the Roman legions of Titus in A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was sacked and burned in order to put down the Jewish rebellion.

The ruins of a famous landmark that commemorate these events, the Arch of Titus, still stands in Rome to this day.

Modern Israel has been in existence for less than a century, although Biblical prophecy clearly foretold that the Jews would be scattered among the nations- and would be in exile for centuries. This prophecy was fulfilled by the same series of events that were initiated by Titus.

The prophet Ezekiel said that in the latter days that Israel would be reborn as a nation- from a valley of dry bones (take a look at the photographic evidence of the Holocaust that shows the bone pits at Auschwitz and Dachau).

The UN did set up a charter that established the modern state of Israel. On May 16, 1948 the very day Israel declared independence, she was attacked by the five armies of Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, and Egypt. Even though with no official army of its own (and with NO help whatsoever from the US), the Hagannah militia managed to defeat the five armies, and thus secured the fledgling country's future.

Ezekiel also said that the in last days that a war of conquest would be launched against Israel and named Gog- the prince of Magog (Russia), Persia (Iran), Libya, Gomer (Turkey) and Ethiopia would be among the major participants in this attack. He went on to write that God Himself would intervene, and that He would personally destroy the invasion forces that had come to bring its forces to bear on Israel. Russia and Iran have never, ever had a formal alliance- until now.

In the Bible, God said through Ezekiel that he would put "hooks in the mouth of Gog", drawing it into battle almost against its will- and one can easily see how much trouble that Russia is now causing by building nuclear power plants in Iran- the former Persian Empire, and one of Israel's most bitter enemies, a country that has sworn on more than one occasion to "wipe Israel off of the map", and not to mention Russia providing advanced weapons of all types to Israel's hostile neighbors- nations that surround her. The names of many of these nations have not changed since biblical times.

IF all of this were not taking place before our very eyes, then it would be easy to dismiss Ezekiel's writing as ancient mystic rubbish, but the accuracy is startling.

This is not the Biblical battle of Armageddon- which the Bible indicated would take place in the Jezreel Valley in Israel, but is a precursory type of event that would reveal to the world that God is real, and that He is still running the show.

There is a great deal of historical evidence that directly correlates to Biblical prophecy- even down to that of the naysayers in the last days of the world as we know it.
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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by icecab21 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:33 am

http://www.biblehistory.net/

Here is an example of using Christian writings to prove something. I might have to look for a Jewish version or a Muslim version since I’m sure they all have the proof that they are correct. If correct there is indeed a god that slaughtered innocent children and has a wrath to be reckoned with.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by Plisken » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:12 am

miditek wrote:
Plisken wrote:Israel hasn't even been around a century and there's a reference to it in the bible?
There are references to Israel all through the Bible. Moreover, there is plenty of archaeological evidence that Israel existed thousands of years ago. Take the Wailing Wall in today's modern Jerusalem, for instance. It is the one of the remnants of the Second Temple, which was built in the fifth century B.C. It was destroyed by the Roman legions of Titus in A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was sacked and burned in order to put down the Jewish rebellion.

The ruins of a famous landmark that commemorate these events, the Arch of Titus, still stands in Rome to this day.

Modern Israel has been in existence for less than a century, although Biblical prophecy clearly foretold that the Jews would be scattered among the nations- and would be in exile for centuries. This prophecy was fulfilled by the same series of events that were initiated by Titus.

The prophet Ezekiel said that in the latter days that Israel would be reborn as a nation- from a valley of dry bones (take a look at the photographic evidence of the Holocaust that shows the bone pits at Auschwitz and Dachau).

The UN did set up a charter that established the modern state of Israel. On May 16, 1948 the very day Israel declared independence, she was attacked by the five armies of Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan, Iraq, and Egypt. Even though with no official army of its own (and with NO help whatsoever from the US), the Hagannah militia managed to defeat the five armies, and thus secured the fledgling country's future.

Ezekiel also said that the in last days that a war of conquest would be launched against Israel and named Gog- the prince of Magog (Russia), Persia (Iran), Libya, Gomer (Turkey) and Ethiopia would be among the major participants in this attack. He went on to write that God Himself would intervene, and that He would personally destroy the invasion forces that had come to bring its forces to bear on Israel. Russia and Iran have never, ever had a formal alliance- until now.

In the Bible, God said through Ezekiel that he would put "hooks in the mouth of Gog", drawing it into battle almost against its will- and one can easily see how much trouble that Russia is now causing by building nuclear power plants in Iran- the former Persian Empire, and one of Israel's most bitter enemies, a country that has sworn on more than one occasion to "wipe Israel off of the map", and not to mention Russia providing advanced weapons of all types to Israel's hostile neighbors- nations that surround her. The names of many of these nations have not changed since biblical times.

IF all of this were not taking place before our very eyes, then it would be easy to dismiss Ezekiel's writing as ancient mystic rubbish, but the accuracy is startling.

This is not the Biblical battle of Armageddon- which the Bible indicated would take place in the Jezreel Valley in Israel, but is a precursory type of event that would reveal to the world that God is real, and that He is still running the show.

There is a great deal of historical evidence that directly correlates to Biblical prophecy- even down to that of the naysayers in the last days of the world as we know it.
Thats pretty interesting to know I should probably check it out my self to get full details but like what icecab21 said. There is a Jewish Version and a Muslim version too which all will try and prove they are right and real. And when you read them they will sound like they make perfect sense. Also all three try and prove that the other religions are wrong but pointing out certain things in there text. For example here is one I found a year ago I think.

"The temperature of Heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is Isaiah 30:26, "Moreover, the light of the Moon shall be as the light of the Sun and the light of the Sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days." Thus Heaven receives from the Moon as much radiation as we do from the Sun, and in addition 7*7 (49) times as much as the Earth does from the Sun, or 50 times in all. The light we receive from the Moon is one 1/10,000 of the light we receive from the Sun, so we can ignore that ... The radiation falling on Heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation, i.e., Heaven loses 50 times as much heat as the Earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann law for radiation, (H/E)^4 = 50, where E is the absolute temperature of the earth (-300K), gives H as 798K (525C). The exact temperature of Hell cannot be computed ...However Revelations 21:8 says "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, 444.6C. We have, then, that Heaven, at 525C is hotter than Hell at 445C. "

Curtsy of Jens Johansson. If I remember correctly he got it from a book called applied Optics.

Im not trying to step on anyone's beliefs, if you believe in something I respect it and leave it as it is but this is just what I have noticed the 3 main organized religions do.

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browneyedgirl
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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by browneyedgirl » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:28 am

Heaven is not a place in the sky,(thats secular bullshit) but it is like another dimension. There is no need to make something complicated out of it. As to the Isaiah reference it is meant more or less symbolically.It will be alot of lightness&bright in Heaven, but not due to the location. The brightness&light is due to the shining presence of God, plus the streets of Heaven are pure gold, and the purity of the souls within add the light that shines forth of The Great City.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by Plisken » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:45 am

browneyedgirl wrote:Heaven is not a place in the sky,(thats secular bullshit) but it is like another dimension. There is no need to make something complicated out of it. As to the Isaiah reference it is meant more or less symbolically.It will be alot of lightness&bright in Heaven, but not due to the location. The brightness&light is due to the shining presence of God, plus the streets of Heaven are pure gold, and the purity of the souls within add the light that shines forth of The Great City.

You could be right, im not arguing with what you believe. I just used that as an example, it was the only thing I could remember at the time. There are 100's of things like that written about Christianity, Islam, Judaism.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by icecab21 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:05 am

Part of this is that there are so many variations of beliefs among Christians. Everyone has their own vision of what everything is and the relationships between the literal and the symbolism. There’re so many interpretations about aspects being literal or symbolic and arguments between religious sections that there is a reason it's all called faith. There are even whole schools of interpretation about what hell means so many variations about social aspects and mans relationship to god and his relationship to the earth. There are even those preachers that call 911 gods punishment for gays and every natural disaster god’s punishment for society because of the gays.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by browneyedgirl » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:42 am

There are even those preachers that call 911 gods punishment for gays and every natural disaster god's punishment for society because of the gays.
Pardon me for being so blunt, but any preacher who says something like that is ignorant, not to mention cold-hearted. :buh:
I mean, that type of reasoning just doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by icecab21 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:17 am

That was the Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell ,John Hagee version of the story. They have said that secularism opened the door to this and caused the USA to lose favor with god. I can’t imagine that gods work comes from killing each other but rather from loving and saving each other. If we kill we lose the opportunity to help each other. By now we should have technology to capture and change people without killing them. Since we do have examples of that happening, I think that should be a wider spread goal than to kill whole families and peoples because of a few extremists and propaganda twisting their minds.

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Re: Radical Islamic cleric issues fatwa against Paul McCartney

Post by stratohawk » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:06 am

icecab21 wrote:That was the Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell ,John Hagee version of the story. They have said that secularism opened the door to this and caused the USA to lose favor with god. I can’t imagine that gods work comes from killing each other but rather from loving and saving each other. If we kill we lose the opportunity to help each other. By now we should have technology to capture and change people without killing them. Since we do have examples of that happening, I think that should be a wider spread goal than to kill whole families and peoples because of a few extremists and propaganda twisting their minds.
Yes, but you know, killing is sooo much easier.

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