Global Warming?

[JensJohansson]

http://www.devilskitchen.me.uk/2009/11/ ... -file.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmPSUMBrJoI

[Kecos]

XD Where do you find this stuff?

[browneyedgirl]

Nice site!
Politics is the instrument of the Devil~Bob Dylan
There is a nice blog called Satans Laundromat which is about New York City.
Satan/the Devil is in every room of the house evidently!

Seriously, I have to think Global Warming does exist because as recently as 20 to 25 years ago even people in the South USA were wearing coats in October. These days a long sleeve cotton TeeShirt will suffice. Nights get a bit chilly, but not that bad. Some nights so far I have not even had to cut on the heat.
So something IS happening to the climate!

[robocop656]

5 DROWNING POLAR BEARS!!!


Oh man....that's some funny shit.

[JensJohansson]

Seriously, I have to think Global Warming does exist because as recently as 20 to 25 years ago even people in the South USA were wearing coats in October. These days a long sleeve cotton TeeShirt will suffice. Nights get a bit chilly, but not that bad. Some nights so far I have not even had to cut on the heat. So something IS happening to the climate!

I agree, I have seen and heard all the anecdotes, I have seen the videos of collapsing ice shelves, and I also have a gut feeling the weather has been getting warmer the last 20-30 years. In Sweden winters really did use to feel a lot snowier. Etc etc. But it is just that, a feeling. I think it's a bit unreasonable to try to force a billion and a half Chinese people not to drive cars because I have a bad feeling...

I am still willing to accept a theory that man-made CO2 emissions cause global warming. It's just that the case all of a sudden became a bit weaker in my mind. There's definitely some explaining that needs to be done. To me, this poor programmer's three year diary of his struggle trying to wrangle bad or unmarked source data is a quite damning eye-opener.

If a mere mortal was this unsure about numbers when filing a tax return they'd probably be thrown in jail.. "err, I think my income for 2005 was $1,233,070. Or maybe I lost $573,000. Or wait, maybe not, I mistyped a number and there was a floating point overflow. So I do owe some tax. I'm thinking I owe $1,234.56, I'll work on the numbers a little more until I arrive at that result. Sorry!"

17. Inserted debug statements into anomdtb.f90, discovered that a sum-of-squared variable is becoming very, very negative! Key output from the debug statements:

OpEn= 16.00, OpTotSq= 4142182.00, OpTot= 7126.00
DataA val = 93, OpTotSq= 8649.00
DataA val = 172, OpTotSq= 38233.00
DataA val = 950, OpTotSq= 940733.00
DataA val = 797, OpTotSq= 1575942.00
DataA val = 293, OpTotSq= 1661791.00
DataA val = 83, OpTotSq= 1668680.00
DataA val = 860, OpTotSq= 2408280.00
DataA val = 222, OpTotSq= 2457564.00
DataA val = 452, OpTotSq= 2661868.00
DataA val = 561, OpTotSq= 2976589.00
DataA val = 49920, OpTotSq=-1799984256.00
DataA val = 547, OpTotSq=-1799684992.00
DataA val = 672, OpTotSq=-1799233408.00
DataA val = 710, OpTotSq=-1798729344.00
DataA val = 211, OpTotSq=-1798684800.00
DataA val = 403, OpTotSq=-1798522368.00
OpEn= 16.00, OpTotSq=-1798522368.00, OpTot=56946.00
forrtl: error (75): floating point exception
IOT trap (core dumped)

..so the data value is unbfeasibly large, but why does the sum-of-squares parameter OpTotSq go negative?!!

Probable answer: the high value is pushing beyond the single-precision default for Fortran reals?

The inevitable nerd joke (which I actually still haven't seen anywhere) would of course be that with so many imaginary numbers a running sum of squares can be negative. :)

I have to say whoever this poor fellow Harry is, it's a good thing that he documented the process, otherwise the story would have been lost in a way. The whole file really reads like a trail of tears. (It also makes me very happy I don't have a real job, especially in the academic IT world.. it could have happened.)

I think the community of climate science people will have to do a lot of explaining because of this. At the moment for instance I at least don't know how widely cited or respected CRU's papers have been in the greater scheme of things.

I'm also thinking stealing this information and releasing it was not necessarily unethical, either. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Acting on these theories will have impact on a lot of people's daily lives for many years.

Having said all this, I wouldn't at all mind the world getting less dependent on oil. Probably it will run out at some point in the future, and there are also political aspects to using oil.

[shg]

Having said all this, I wouldn't at all mind the world getting less dependent on oil. Probably it will run out at some point in the future, and there are also political aspects to using oil.

Finnish documentary film director John Webster spent a year with his family without oil. He also made a movie. Oil is needed on so many things, even toothpaste! Here is the trailer for the movie: http://www.katastrofinaineksia.info/

It is true that we must now save natural resources in all possible ways.

[RazielSR]

Well, this event has been... numeric

Obviously we are suffering the beginning of a climate change. For example in November we are having in Spain temperatures like 20º-25º-30º celsius and in some parts of the south, in summer, is about 48º plus the dry environment coming from the sahara desert. Some parts of the south of spain (Andalucia) are becoming almost a desert, cause the scientifics says that the desert is claiming his terrain and is winning space step by step.

But I have always the same question. In this change, what % is because of the humans and what % is just because the natural process of the eras?


Dependig who you ask, global warming defenders or global warming detractors you are gonna have a different answer. And both parts are earning a lot of money thanks to that.


And we are in the middle, as always, like a puppets wanting to believe something. I don't believe anything.

I just know that we, the human race, use to destroy a lot and we make the natural resources to become exhausted. Today is the earth, and in some centuries will be in another planet.
Anyway I don't give a fuck nowadays, cause you know, everything is a fucking lie and everybody wants just to have his theory and earn some money with organizations controlling puppets.

[Burning Reflection]

Ok, I actually read that whole first link and still don't get it, but I want to. So this program that was supposed to gather the founding data of global warming was not fully understood by the programmers? Is all global warming data based off this original analysis?

[AAAAAAAAAA]

Seriously, I have to think Global Warming does exist because as recently as 20 to 25 years ago even people in the South USA were wearing coats in October. These days a long sleeve cotton TeeShirt will suffice. Nights get a bit chilly, but not that bad. Some nights so far I have not even had to cut on the heat. So something IS happening to the climate!

I agree, I have seen and heard all the anecdotes, I have seen the videos of collapsing ice shelves, and I also have a gut feeling the weather has been getting warmer the last 20-30 years. In Sweden winters really did use to feel a lot snowier. Etc etc.

You people are insane. The global warming theory states that the average global temperature has increased by 1.33 degrees Fahrenheit over the course of the last 100 years. I'm not denying that we may be losing precious blocks of ice due to minute changes in temperature (and what a tragic loss it is), but to say that a difference of half a degree Fahrenheit is responsible for why you no longer wear winter coats is mind bogglingly stupid. You heard me right. My mind has been boggled.

AGGHHH!!

:boggledmind:

Damn. This will have to suffice:
:crazy1: :crazy1: :crazy1: :crazy1: :crazy1:

[miditek]

Acting on these theories will have impact on a lot of people's daily lives for many years.

I know! I just bought a replacement bulb at CVS for the light on my front porch, and it takes between five and ten minutes for the damn thing to completely power up!

Didn't realize it was one of those Gore Industries products. I have to hand it to him, not many people can make $100 million off of complete bullshit, but when it costs $600.00 per month just to heat the poolhouse, a crook's gotta do what a crook's gotta do.

[icecab21]

off of complete bullshit,

You are a great consumer if you buy complete bullshit. You consider that the light you bought has no value?

[AAAAAAAAAA]

off of complete bullshit,

You are a great consumer if you buy complete bullshit. You consider that the light you bought has no value?

While we're on the topic of buying complete bullshit... :rotflmao1:

Weren't you the one who thought the reason you got banned from the RR forum is because F-Secure revealed you and I are the same person!?

:bounce2: :bounce2: :ola: :music: :banana1: :banana2: :banana1: :banana2: :leapfrog: :leapfrog:

[icecab21]

You and I are the same person.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

You and I are the same person.

Pretty much!
Only I have a brain.

[icecab21]

A very logical conclusion to say that someone does not have a brain.

[JensJohansson]

You people are insane. The global warming theory states that the average global temperature has increased by 1.33 degrees Fahrenheit over the course of the last 100 years. I'm not denying that we may be losing precious blocks of ice due to minute changes in temperature (and what a tragic loss it is), but to say that a difference of half a degree Fahrenheit is responsible for why you no longer wear winter coats is mind bogglingly stupid. You heard me right. My mind has been boggled.

Yeah, what the climatologist fear is that smaller average atmospheric temperature increase I suppose. However you would compute "average temperature" of something that has a mass of 5 * 10^15 metric tons..

It's clear from these leaked documents that at least some of them are a bit confused even about their input data. Much of the thousands-year-spanning historical temperature record comes from tree rings, which as you know are only present in about the 50 meters or so of the atmosphere closest to the surface (= the first 0.0005% if you consider the atmosphere "ends" at 10 km.) Some people's rationalization about this is looking a bit like religion or communism to me, and that really goes for both sides of the issue. I've seen the word "warmist" more than once .. I guess there are "coldists" as well but they call themselves something else.

Anyway, I wouldn't quite call my own feeling insane.. weather, just like the numbers of angels you can fit on the head of a pin, is a notoriously nonlinear system (google "arctic oscillation" for instance). And -- not the smallest factor when considering feelings -- the media have hyped global warming now for about 15 years.. nonetheless at least I clearly described it as a mere feeling? :) I think this is one of the main problems in this whole issue. People are scared and then they rationalize around that, instead of recognizing feelings for what they are and isolating their science and computer models from their feelings..

[icecab21]

If some of this is about going green, I definitely think there are great reasons to do so in some areas no matter what the earth is doing. Planting trees is one thing, its just plain economical for tree farmers. Going for cheaper fuel sources, the cheaper costs of operation speak for themselves. If the issue is about government involvement, ok, but I’m not so sure about a people having the issue against people wanting some practical solutions to normal problems solved in a capitalistic free market way. Sustainability is a good thing to all but the companies that make money off of dwindling nonrenewable. Those companies will then of course lead the fight towards sustainability, since only then would it be in their interest. I think the more people invest in these solutions now, the better.

[RazielSR]

There are people against people who wants "some practical solutions to normal problems". Ask the biggest companies, and you'll see.

I suppose you know where you live, this world is based in money. Everything is money, the millionaires companies and the capitalist system won't change because of "global warming" or "deforestation". They will create new sub-companies taking advantage from the "feeling" of the people. Feeling created by the media too, of course. Now the money doesn't come from "renewable energy" (well just a bit) for example. That will happen in the future when the actual resources will be consumed. And we will talk always about this, its a cycle.

Are you gonna do something for a change? No. You will continue your life and at the most you'll post in the forum¿?
Imagine that you have a big company and you and your family are earning a lot of money and you have 4.000 employers and somebody tells you, "hey the world is fucked up and the animals are dying and you know, the global warming is gonna make us suffer a lot, please sell your company and create another one with completely new direction and focuse your money in "green".

I suppose you know the answer. The same with you, or me, or the others. Are we gonna do something? No. We'll talk about it feeding the "feeling" which in my opinion is true but at the same time exaggerated. Are you gonna forget all the things you have NOW just to "save the world", just like greenpeace? what's greenpeace? a company. Are you gonna fill up your myspace with greenpeace and save the wold banners?
That's how it is?

I have nothing against you Icecab, I'm talking in general but it was you who posted about "green".

I don't give a fuck green or whatever and I'm not doing anything to "save the world". And I'd like to be millionare too. and If I had a company sending CO2 to the environment and being rich with that, it's ok with me.

I hate hypocrisy, and we have everyday hypocrisy from "greens" and global warming too.

[Polaris]

You guys are making jokes of something really serious, the seasons are not the same anymore & probably the world will end under the water again

[browneyedgirl]

Acting on these theories will have impact on a lot of people's daily lives for many years.

I know! I just bought a replacement bulb at CVS for the light on my front porch, and it takes between five and ten minutes for the damn thing to completely power up!

Didn't realize it was one of those Gore Industries products. I have to hand it to him, not many people can make $100 million off of complete bullshit, but when it costs $600.00 per month just to heat the poolhouse, a crook's gotta do what a crook's gotta do.

The funny thing is, these bulbs are supposed to be better for the environment, but they are filled with Mercury!
OTOH, they do last a long time. I bought 4 of these bulbs in 2006(at $4.99 EACH at the local Dollar General), and they are still burning as bright as ever. Are they worth it? The jury is still out on that one!

[icecab21]

The main thing I see as good green wok is working to recycle and make the most out of any energy that is used. A company that invents ways to reuse c02 would be great, just like a company that creates ways to reuse nuclear waste and tap more energy out of it. The more we can do with garbage, and making some use of that energy, the better. Taking dangers to the environment and making them assets is what I see as an environmental movement. Pretty much it’s about more efficient energy use. I think the government is one way to do this, but would I would like most is voluntary companies to have huge coalitions towards investing in ways to use energy more efficiently. In this way it’s not even about the environment, but about the bottom line for a company. I think the USA some lobbying in the government that is stopping some great advancement for mankind rule wise. I think it a business is the best way to go with this; it’s just all about what the mission statement is and the culture of the company and how it works on achieving its goals.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

If the human population continues to increase at the rate it does today, all our efforts of mitigating environmental impact are utterly hopeless. When we have an extra ten billion people driving to work every morning, it doesn't matter if they stir their coffee with biodegradable spoons once they get there.

Even if cars become more efficient, the process can never be self sustaining. If you drive to work, that energy has go to come from somewhere. And with 50 billion humans eating and shitting several times a day, even environmental fanaticism will not be enough to save us.

The lesson is...we are doomed! But not yet, not even close. And when the time comes, we can at best delay the destruction of the earth by ten, twenty years, rather than avoid it entirely.

I'm going to go shit in a bag now.

[NeverendingAbyss]

Let's go to the mooooooooon!

[icecab21]

Poverty is a big issue tied into population, and religion can be for some that take the multiplying their fruit concept to heart. I think a combination of using technology to help us and going back to some primary principals will help with that issue. The internet can be a way to greatly reduce travel business meeting wise. The push for industry of all its definitely a unsustainable goal, but things like living more for community, and having some fundamental access to food water and shelter has a greater opportunity of helping. I think people’s values and reward systems play a great role.

Now global warming would definitly help the poplulation ishue by flooding all the lands at sea level.

I’m not sure how many people shit several times a day, I suggest a you see a doctor if you do since that's not a sign of health.

[miditek]

off of complete bullshit,

You are a great consumer if you buy complete bullshit. You consider that the light you bought has no value?

I didn't realize it was a "green" (whatever that's supposed to mean- other than Gore Industries, PETA, or some other Communist group of nitpicking fuckwits get a part of the proceeds) lightbulb when I bought it.

I'll burn whatever wattage lightbulb I please, and Gore can kiss my ass. FWIW, I prefer lower wattage bulbs indoors, but not because I'm worried about what Gore thinks, but I've found them to be less of a strain since my eyes are a bit more sensitive to bright light than the average person's.

[icecab21]

It's one of many light bulbs on the market, i think the idea here is that you get the choice to buy what you want. Seems to be capitalism to me. the store had the choice of buying it, and you had the choice of buying it. it's not government rationed or government mandated in any way.

[AAAAAAAAA]

I know that two and two make four,but if I could convert two and two to five,it would give me much greater pleasure...
Byron :owned1:

[JensJohansson]

I'll burn whatever wattage lightbulb I please, and Gore can kiss my ass. FWIW, I prefer lower wattage bulbs indoors, but not because I'm worried about what Gore thinks, but I've found them to be less of a strain since my eyes are a bit more sensitive to bright light than the average person's.

I think the flicker of CFLs is at a much higher frequency (like, kHz) than normal light bulbs (60 Hz). Those old fluorescent tubes are the worst, at least with light bulbs with a filament the filament smoothes out the 60 Hz flicker a bit... so in this case you can save on your power bill, have to botehr less about replacing them, and save your migraine medication bills.

If you still feel like pissing off Al Gore and harming the environment using CFLs, just throw them in the normal garbage after they break, since there is a little bit of mercury in them.

If you are hardcore and feel like harming your immediate personal environment, break them inside your house to release the mercury gas there, and then put them in the garbage.

[browneyedgirl]

There was a rumor going around about a lady who broke one of these bulbs in her house, and reported it to the EPA. It was said the EPA came out, and sealed off the room for over 6 months because of the minute amount of Mercury gas that is contained in these bulbs. She asked doctors about this, and was told that the amount of Mercury was so tiny that probably it would not have hurt anyone anyway.
So, the moral is, if you break one of these bulbs clean it up the best you can and keep your mouth shut.

[NeonVomit]

I use low energy bulbs because it's nice not to almost have a stroke whenever the electricity bill comes.