Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
U.S. Attorney General Holder's DOJ Sturmabteilung goons raid Gibson factories in Memphis and Nashville
Gibson CEO Juszkiewicz vows to fight back
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110 ... -offensive
Gibson CEO: "Feds told us to leave U.S."
http://youtu.be/2E-tXQ6kQoU
Fucking fascist DOJ stormtroopers raid Gibson factories in Nashville and Memphis alleging violation of foreign (not U.S.) import/export laws and impound raw materials. Machine-gun toting eco-SSWAT teams isolate and interrogate stunned production employees, who are in turn, threatened with prison sentences.
Juszkiewicz should tell Chairman Obama and his (Roland) Freisler-esque A.G. Holder "Fine. Fuck you, we're moving all of the factories and jobs to Canada".
Gibson CEO Juszkiewicz vows to fight back
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110 ... -offensive
Gibson CEO: "Feds told us to leave U.S."
http://youtu.be/2E-tXQ6kQoU
Fucking fascist DOJ stormtroopers raid Gibson factories in Nashville and Memphis alleging violation of foreign (not U.S.) import/export laws and impound raw materials. Machine-gun toting eco-SSWAT teams isolate and interrogate stunned production employees, who are in turn, threatened with prison sentences.
Juszkiewicz should tell Chairman Obama and his (Roland) Freisler-esque A.G. Holder "Fine. Fuck you, we're moving all of the factories and jobs to Canada".
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Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
Good.
I'm a total sucker for American musical products (Warwick basses notwithstanding) but Gibson are a disgrace, consistently ranked as one of the worst companies to work for in America (as told by the employees themselves). Given that Juszkiewicz has a 14% approval rating from his own staff and the pervading sentiment is that he's completely out of touch with reality, it doesn't surprise me in the least that they've probably been importing illegally logged wood knowingly, given that their quality control has taken a nosedive in the last 10 years (seriously, a new Studio Les Paul with a giant ring of dried glue around the headstock? For a £950 instrument? Are you fucking having a laugh, Gibson? How stupid do you believe your customers are?) Well, pretty stupid actually, since their customer service would probably be considered a crime in some countries (compare this to, say, Genz-Benz' customer service... I called up asking for some info about extension cables, and it turned out I was speaking to Jeff Genzler himself, who then proceeded to invite me to Scottsdale 'to catch some rays, man'. Cool guy.)
Every single company they take over gets run into the ground (my favourite example: Trace Elliot, after which everyone there jumped ship and formed Ashdown), and the management truly does not give the tiniest fuck about destroying the reputation and name of some of the greatest musical instrument companies in the world. All they are concerned with is milking the buying public of every last cent with overpriced, outdated products (well, it's been almost 50 years... shall we fix that heatstock weakness issue on the Les Paul? Nah, fuckit, people will still buy it anyway... let's add a new colour scheme and charge an extra $600 for it instead! Those idiots will buy anything!)
The reason they still have anything of a reputation at all is the fact that people are still willing to drop top dollar for their signature products, sadly believing that they are buying something top of the range. Also, their Epiphone division is actually pretty well-run and very profitable, and in an uncharacteristic flash of wisdom, essentially left to do their own thing by the central management. And they have quality control that works. And they actually make amplifiers which weren't designed by an OCD sociopath (6V6GT tubes in a preamp!? What kind of sick fuck would come up with that??) And they add more weight to the argument that Koreans can actually make better instruments than Americans.
Compare them with Fender, Eden Electronics, Gallien-Krueger, Peavey or basically any other major US instrument/amp manufacturer and you'll see what I mean. Even the borderline psychotic anarcho-nihilists at Rickenbacker have a philosophy and ethos, misguided as it might be, that they stick to and they put out consistently high-quality products. They even realised that the 4001 had some pretty serious neck issues that wouldn't take the strain of heavier strings and consequentially released the 4002 - a pretty stark contrast to the whole LP headstock thing.
What has Gibson done to innovate in the last 20 years? A self-tuning guitar! Whoopdy-fucking-do! And we'll market it by telling everyone 'You've been playing out of tune all this time! You're all tone deaf morons!' Oh wait, Fender beat us to that by about five years before we came along with our fucked-up, overcomplicated attempt. Hmm... well nobody wants to buy it because it costs more than a decent used car, so here's a great idea: let's make a Firebird and fill it with a ton of useless crap nobody needs or uses! But forget about any warranty covering any of that fancy high-tech stuff, because, well, fuck you. (And as you can see by the comments on Gibson's own website, it's not exactly... going down well.)
I really do like Gibson instruments - the ones made before the whole buyout fiasco. Harry uses a 1979 LP Studio for all rhythm work on our albums and it's pretty sick sounding - just holding it you can feel that newer instruments are simply not nearly in the same category. Case in point: I tested out an Epiphone Les Paul Studio Goth guitar that was actually better sounding and better built than a Gibson Les Paul Standard. The frets weren't even properly sanded down... I brought this up with the guy at the store and he was like 'yeah... they're not what they once were' in a slightly embarrassed way.
But given the direction the company's been taking, I feel this is some pretty long-overdue justice finally being served. Maybe Juszkiewicz will finally get the fuck out of a job that he clearly does not belong in, and someone will now take over who actually wants to honour the history of the Gibson name.
The length of this rant in and of itself should give away just how much I care about the history of the company, and just how much I hate what they've become.
I'm a total sucker for American musical products (Warwick basses notwithstanding) but Gibson are a disgrace, consistently ranked as one of the worst companies to work for in America (as told by the employees themselves). Given that Juszkiewicz has a 14% approval rating from his own staff and the pervading sentiment is that he's completely out of touch with reality, it doesn't surprise me in the least that they've probably been importing illegally logged wood knowingly, given that their quality control has taken a nosedive in the last 10 years (seriously, a new Studio Les Paul with a giant ring of dried glue around the headstock? For a £950 instrument? Are you fucking having a laugh, Gibson? How stupid do you believe your customers are?) Well, pretty stupid actually, since their customer service would probably be considered a crime in some countries (compare this to, say, Genz-Benz' customer service... I called up asking for some info about extension cables, and it turned out I was speaking to Jeff Genzler himself, who then proceeded to invite me to Scottsdale 'to catch some rays, man'. Cool guy.)
Every single company they take over gets run into the ground (my favourite example: Trace Elliot, after which everyone there jumped ship and formed Ashdown), and the management truly does not give the tiniest fuck about destroying the reputation and name of some of the greatest musical instrument companies in the world. All they are concerned with is milking the buying public of every last cent with overpriced, outdated products (well, it's been almost 50 years... shall we fix that heatstock weakness issue on the Les Paul? Nah, fuckit, people will still buy it anyway... let's add a new colour scheme and charge an extra $600 for it instead! Those idiots will buy anything!)
The reason they still have anything of a reputation at all is the fact that people are still willing to drop top dollar for their signature products, sadly believing that they are buying something top of the range. Also, their Epiphone division is actually pretty well-run and very profitable, and in an uncharacteristic flash of wisdom, essentially left to do their own thing by the central management. And they have quality control that works. And they actually make amplifiers which weren't designed by an OCD sociopath (6V6GT tubes in a preamp!? What kind of sick fuck would come up with that??) And they add more weight to the argument that Koreans can actually make better instruments than Americans.
Compare them with Fender, Eden Electronics, Gallien-Krueger, Peavey or basically any other major US instrument/amp manufacturer and you'll see what I mean. Even the borderline psychotic anarcho-nihilists at Rickenbacker have a philosophy and ethos, misguided as it might be, that they stick to and they put out consistently high-quality products. They even realised that the 4001 had some pretty serious neck issues that wouldn't take the strain of heavier strings and consequentially released the 4002 - a pretty stark contrast to the whole LP headstock thing.
What has Gibson done to innovate in the last 20 years? A self-tuning guitar! Whoopdy-fucking-do! And we'll market it by telling everyone 'You've been playing out of tune all this time! You're all tone deaf morons!' Oh wait, Fender beat us to that by about five years before we came along with our fucked-up, overcomplicated attempt. Hmm... well nobody wants to buy it because it costs more than a decent used car, so here's a great idea: let's make a Firebird and fill it with a ton of useless crap nobody needs or uses! But forget about any warranty covering any of that fancy high-tech stuff, because, well, fuck you. (And as you can see by the comments on Gibson's own website, it's not exactly... going down well.)
I really do like Gibson instruments - the ones made before the whole buyout fiasco. Harry uses a 1979 LP Studio for all rhythm work on our albums and it's pretty sick sounding - just holding it you can feel that newer instruments are simply not nearly in the same category. Case in point: I tested out an Epiphone Les Paul Studio Goth guitar that was actually better sounding and better built than a Gibson Les Paul Standard. The frets weren't even properly sanded down... I brought this up with the guy at the store and he was like 'yeah... they're not what they once were' in a slightly embarrassed way.
But given the direction the company's been taking, I feel this is some pretty long-overdue justice finally being served. Maybe Juszkiewicz will finally get the fuck out of a job that he clearly does not belong in, and someone will now take over who actually wants to honour the history of the Gibson name.
The length of this rant in and of itself should give away just how much I care about the history of the company, and just how much I hate what they've become.
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
- NeverendingAbyss
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Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
hahahaha....neon vomit champion post......NeverendingAbyss wrote:
still gibson guitars are awesome.
A9
- Arnold Layne
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Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
I heard a rumour that they will be raiding Timo Kotipelto's bachelor pad to get Tolkki's guitarra back. Wait and see. HUH!
Arnold Layne
Arnold Layne
Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
I'm really not concerned about Gibson's Q&A in this particular situation,(there are many other instrument manufacturers to buy from- and that my friend is the best way to punish a company's poor craftsmanship and/or customer service). I owned a pre-Nashville Gibson SG when I was a kid- but that is not the point.The length of this rant in and of itself should give away just how much I care about the history of the company, and just how much I hate what they've become.
What I am concerned about are federal game wardens (U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service) armed with machine guns going into manufacturing plants and threatening not only managers, but also regular run of the mill workers with prison sentences, and telling corporate officers that it would "all go away if they simply moved their operations off-shore".
Those are heavy handed tactics (similar to the disasters and Waco and Ruby Ridge) that should not be tolerated under any circumstances. DOJ's goals- whatever they may be- could just as easily been met by sending out a few associate AG's from the U.S. Attorneys office in Memphis with warrants and red pencils for fuck's sake. I'm sure that a couple of FBI agents could have rode along to make sure that no one in the plant pointed an AR-15 or AK-47 at them.
Tensions are very high in this country as it is, and Obamao's eco-SWAT thugs are not helping the situation at all.
No one has to like Gibson, work there, nor buy any of their products.
The legal basis for the raid is weak, and the company has proper documentation from the governments in India and Madagascar that all shipments of raw materials are legal. If they were illegal, then how did the shipments past inspection from the FOB (Freight Out Bound) countries, or make it pass ICE/Immigration and Customs Enforcement?
And since when does the DOJ have the authority to enforce foreign laws or use them as the basis for internal law enforcement within our borders.
And if all of the above is still not enough, why wait until now before launching these raids?
Fuck Obamao and Holder with a broken bottle.
And if you want to talk about a bad place to work, take a look at the iPhone factory in China-
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-06-0 ... cides.html
I can assure you that Apple's Silicon Valley headquarters will never, ever get raided.
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Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
I don't think one can really compare a US factory to a Chinese factory, come on. I could say 'you know a REALLY crappy place to work? At a sulphur mine in Peru!' but that's beside the point.
And this is not the first time that Gibson has been in trouble for this sort of thing, look it up. They've been raided before for similar reasons, I believe by state authorities a couple of years ago, so this has been an ongoing deal.
I don't pretend to know much about Federal law enforcement procedures or what is seen as reasonable force, what I DO know is how much Gibson sucks. The entire company is rotten to the core, it shows from their products and their work environment and I don't feel the slightest bit of sympathy for them or the management... I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they've been involved in illegal practices; I'd be surprised if they weren't, actually. In my book, they've had all this coming and fully deserve every bit of it.
And rest assured, any Gibson USA products I own were purchased used, which means they didn't get any of my money
And this is not the first time that Gibson has been in trouble for this sort of thing, look it up. They've been raided before for similar reasons, I believe by state authorities a couple of years ago, so this has been an ongoing deal.
I don't pretend to know much about Federal law enforcement procedures or what is seen as reasonable force, what I DO know is how much Gibson sucks. The entire company is rotten to the core, it shows from their products and their work environment and I don't feel the slightest bit of sympathy for them or the management... I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they've been involved in illegal practices; I'd be surprised if they weren't, actually. In my book, they've had all this coming and fully deserve every bit of it.
And rest assured, any Gibson USA products I own were purchased used, which means they didn't get any of my money
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
I'm not defending their workmanship or business practices- it's that damned Lacey Act that violates the Fourth Amendment. Did you know that law actually allows ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) and/or U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service agents to seize any instrument that they even suspect of violating the law, without a warrant, and without due process- even a real '59 Flametop LP Standard could be seized. Your guitarist's LP Studio could also have been taken- unless he could provide documented proof (from whom?) that the materials used to build the instrument were not from an endangered species.NeonVomit wrote:I don't think one can really compare a US factory to a Chinese factory, come on. I could say 'you know a REALLY crappy place to work? At a sulphur mine in Peru!' but that's beside the point.
And this is not the first time that Gibson has been in trouble for this sort of thing, look it up. They've been raided before for similar reasons, I believe by state authorities a couple of years ago, so this has been an ongoing deal.
I don't pretend to know much about Federal law enforcement procedures or what is seen as reasonable force, what I DO know is how much Gibson sucks. The entire company is rotten to the core, it shows from their products and their work environment and I don't feel the slightest bit of sympathy for them or the management... I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they've been involved in illegal practices; I'd be surprised if they weren't, actually. In my book, they've had all this coming and fully deserve every bit of it.
And rest assured, any Gibson USA products I own were purchased used, which means they didn't get any of my money
Take Gibson out of the equation and look at the idiocy behind this entire fiasco.
I'm not defending their workmanship or business practices- it's that damned Lacey Act that violates the Fourth Amendment. Did you know that law actually allows ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) and/or U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service agents to seize any instrument that they even suspect of violating the law, without a warrant, and without due process- even a real '59 Flametop LP Standard could be seized. Your guitarist's LP Studio could also have been taken- unless he could provide documented proof (from whom?) that the materials used to build the instrument were not from an endangered species.
Take Gibson out of the equation and look at the idiocy behind this entire fiasco.
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Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
Well I don't think Gibson were doing that back in '79 and if they were, there probably weren't the laws in place.
Besides, it's definitely not made for looks: it's possibly the least interesting LP to look at I've encountered, but hey, it's a studio guitar - it massively over-delivers sound, build and playing wise.
Idiocy or not - I'm not in a position to judge as I'm not knowledgeable about these things. I'm just glad the company is getting their comeuppance.
Sorta like how the killing of Osama bin Laden wasn't exactly congruent with international law, but that didn't prevent me and anyone else with a semblance of a soul feeling some sort of vindication about it... maybe that's a stupid analogy, but you get my drift
Besides, it's definitely not made for looks: it's possibly the least interesting LP to look at I've encountered, but hey, it's a studio guitar - it massively over-delivers sound, build and playing wise.
Idiocy or not - I'm not in a position to judge as I'm not knowledgeable about these things. I'm just glad the company is getting their comeuppance.
Sorta like how the killing of Osama bin Laden wasn't exactly congruent with international law, but that didn't prevent me and anyone else with a semblance of a soul feeling some sort of vindication about it... maybe that's a stupid analogy, but you get my drift
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
I don't understand a single sentence in this thread. My idiocy has reached a violent peak
---...---
- AAAAAAAAAA
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Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
It gets better.AGAG wrote:I don't understand a single sentence in this thread. My idiocy has reached a violent peak
Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
The thread in one sentence: Authorities raid Gibson's factory and offices, but that doesn't matter because the company is run by a bunch of assholes who deserve it.AGAG wrote:I don't understand a single sentence in this thread. My idiocy has reached a violent peak
Get with the program, man!
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
- Beast_Pete
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Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
Now that's what I call brief.NeonVomit wrote:The thread in one sentence: Authorities raid Gibson's factory and offices, but that doesn't matter because the company is run by a bunch of assholes who deserve it.
"Mikor az utolsó véred is elfolyék,
S a tested is a porba hullék,
Akkor is van még remény,
Mert a lelked továbbra is él."
- Mark Swanson -
from the book, Nick's legend
S a tested is a porba hullék,
Akkor is van még remény,
Mert a lelked továbbra is él."
- Mark Swanson -
from the book, Nick's legend
Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
My two cents is that the raids represent little more than government-sponsored gangsterism, and I'm disappointed that the TN National Guard didn't show up pointing assault rifles at the feds.Beast_Pete wrote:Now that's what I call brief.NeonVomit wrote:The thread in one sentence: Authorities raid Gibson's factory and offices, but that doesn't matter because the company is run by a bunch of assholes who deserve it.
Regarding Gibson itself, I believe that the best way to 'punish' them is to simply buy a competitor's product, such as a Rick, PRS, Fender, or even a Carvin. The market should either reward (or punish) the company. Period.
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Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
these are what I call briefsBeast_Pete wrote:Now that's what I call brief.NeonVomit wrote:The thread in one sentence: Authorities raid Gibson's factory and offices, but that doesn't matter because the company is run by a bunch of assholes who deserve it.
Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
For people to stop buying their products, they need to A) realise that they're really not what they once were and B) realise the company is rotten and simply coasting on the glorious past. This is exactly the sort of PR disaster Gibson deserve!miditek wrote: Regarding Gibson itself, I believe that the best way to 'punish' them is to simply buy a competitor's product, such as a Rick, PRS, Fender, or even a Carvin. The market should either reward (or punish) the company. Period.
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
so is this just about procedure? if there was proof and a warrant that the company was engaging in illegal activities , would you be ok with the government being able to follow the correct procedures and enforce the law?
Re: Holder's Sturmabteilung raids Gibson factories
I'd be happy enough with them setting fire to everything Gibson, warrant or no warrant. Would increase the value of the stuff I have something fierce if anything!
"Beneath the freezing sky arrives Winter's Verge..."
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!
http://www.wintersverge.com
I'm going to hell, and loving the ride!