Dream Theater - A Dramatic Turn of Events (new album)

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:03 am

the way you review your bands seems detached from the score you slap on.
you spend most the review kicking dream theater in the balls then give it a 3.75
your in legend review spends the whole time giving a good review about what they are doing apart from wanting them to be something they cant be ( wanting a guitar in a guitar-less band), then you give them the same score of 3.75.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:29 am

Arnold Layne wrote:Does assigning albums numerical scores give you some sense of power?

Arnold Layne

Actually, when I joined Black Wind Metal, I tried to work out a deal so that I wouldn't have to, because I think the numbers distract from the content of the review, especially since I try to keep my scores more normalized. It's clear that Icecab thinks that because I gave it a 3.75, that I didn't like it, which isn't the case at all. People get butthurt about scores.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:32 am

icecab21 wrote:the way you review your bands seems detached from the score you slap on.
you spend most the review kicking dream theater in the balls then give it a 3.75
your in legend review spends the whole time giving a good review about what they are doing apart from wanting them to be something they cant be ( wanting a guitar in a guitar-less band), then you give them the same score of 3.75.

I said a guitar could help some songs with In Legend, however my bigger concern was that they 14 songs of very similar material was a bit tiring. As I said before, in my DT review, I am talking about all the things they've improved on. They brought the ballads to a respectable length, LaBrie's voice has improved, we're free of Portnoy's obnoxious vocals, and they're at least trying to break the mold here and there. The difference is that Dream Theater is a hugely talented band that is still underperforming, and In Legend is a young band with a lot of potential that still has somewhere to go.
If you want to see me kick something in the balls, I gave some grunge album a half point out of 5.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:10 am

your dream theater review said that regarding some types of songs, that no matter what they do, you don't want to hear it. that grants them no room for improvement or potential to fill.

you say the band is intent on technical wankery, then you don't even try to use any technical terms or assess the techniques used in the album. no attempt to say what is used well and what is used badly. if the stuff is really about wankery rather than serving a musical purpose or expressing an idea, why give it get a score as high as 3.75?.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:49 am

icecab21 wrote:your dream theater review said that regarding some types of songs, that no matter what they do, you don't want to hear it. that grants them no room for improvement or potential to fill.

you say the band is intent on technical wankery, then you don't even try to use any technical terms or assess the techniques used in the album. no attempt to say what is used well and what is used badly. if the stuff is really about wankery rather than serving a musical purpose or expressing an idea, why give it get a score as high as 3.75?.

I am giving them advice on improvement, keep it short, The Best of Times would have been a great 6 minute song, but by 13 minutes, I was bored out of my skull. This is consistently how DT's slower songs and ballads are. Can you imagine them trying to stretch Disappear to 15 minutes?

As far as the wankery. it's still there, but it's not nearly as bad. I heard it maybe once or twice on the album.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:10 am

my take is a song can be timed as long as it makes good use of the time. there should be a reason for it being in the song if it's used in the song. it can be a fair point to say that they have not used the time well in their past songs. i don't think that means that they cannot work on developing a song where every movement serves a purpose for the expression of the ideas behind the song. one problem i have is that some of the songs will have instrumental sections that i feel have nothing to do with the rest of the song and seem random, I'd rather they developed the instrumental sections in the context with the other sections of the song. it's really not a matter of song length for me, but a matter of how they use the song length and what each part of the song contributes to the whole song.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:46 am

icecab21 wrote:my take is a song can be timed as long as it makes good use of the time. there should be a reason for it being in the song if it's used in the song. it can be a fair point to say that they have not used the time well in their past songs. i don't think that means that they cannot work on developing a song where every movement serves a purpose for the expression of the ideas behind the song. one problem i have is that some of the songs will have instrumental sections that i feel have nothing to do with the rest of the song and seem random, I'd rather they developed the instrumental sections in the context with the other sections of the song. it's really not a matter of song length for me, but a matter of how they use the song length and what each part of the song contributes to the whole song.

Another thing I realized pretty early into this gig is that readers don't listen that far into the music. We could argue for days about the exact nature of the problems of various songs, but I think as others have agreed, I was pretty fair with the album, if quite critical. In my mind, I'd like much more to go in depth with technical details and stuff like that, but it's not going to do many people much good,=.

icecab21 · Post by **icecab21** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:28 am

i think on some of the metal forum and review sites, the target audience reviewers have to write for is a blabbermouth type.

Mormegil · Post by **Mormegil** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:33 am

I've been listening to the album a lot and like I suspected before, it to me indeed sounds like their best work since Train of Thought. It often takes me back to my favourite album from them, Images and Words. And not just because of the general vibe of the album; On the Back of Angels reminds me a lot of Pull Me Under and Lost Not Forgotten sounds at times very similar to Under a Glass Moon.
Funny thing is that even though they now had a new guy in their ranks, they sound more like a band, than they have in years. The last two albums in particular gave me a feeling that it was Petrucci, Portnoy and Rudess getting a bit carried away with their "wankery" at the expense of the songs.

icecab21 wrote:one problem i have is that some of the songs will have instrumental sections that i feel have nothing to do with the rest of the song and seem random, I'd rather they developed the instrumental sections in the context with the other sections of the song.

This has been a major turn-off for me on the later DT releases and the new album is a huge improvement in this area. I also kind of agree with Rebel that DT isn't at their strongest when writing ballads, save for Space-Dye Vest, but that was written solely by Kevin Moore I think.

RazielSR · Post by **RazielSR** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:30 am

This album is incredible. For me is a masterpiece without any doubt. The best album as a whole album since Awake, which is for me their best one. Incredible songs, I like all the songs in this album. The only one that is a bit "worst" for me, is Far from heaven. My fav ones right now (it could change) are:

This is the life, Beneath the Surface, Outcry, Breaking all Illusions and Bridges in the sky. Anyway, it is really difficult for me to choose one, because I like all the songs a lot. Seriously, it is an album that is a masterpiece and a jewel for me. Amazing masterpiece.

I'm sold with this album, it is sincere and complex without being too much complex. It is a new beginning.

Maybe right now my list would be:

1- This is the life
2- Beneath the surface
3- Outcry
4- Breaking all illusions
5- Bridges in the sky
6- Lost not forgotten
7- On the backs of angels
8- Build me up, break me down
9- Far from heaven

Anyway, from 1 to 8, it could be all the songs at the same number one. It is just to make a list.

PS: I lol like a stupid sometimes when I listen the woooooaaaaarrrr (you know: the shaman) in Bridges in the sky and more if I think about robolol laughing his balls off while listening to it

.....but hey, that song, the context, the emotion... is just pure magic. Man, the sentence: "sun, come shine my way" and "wind, carry me home" and the voice by JLB is just...wow...

AAAAAAAAAA · Post by **AAAAAAAAAA** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:08 am

We interrupt this broadcast to bring you this very special message:

...THIS!!!

perv

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:13 am

Mormegil wrote:I've been listening to the album a lot and like I suspected before, it to me indeed sounds like their best work since Train of Thought. It often takes me back to my favourite album from them, Images and Words. And not just because of the general vibe of the album; On the Back of Angels reminds me a lot of Pull Me Under and Lost Not Forgotten sounds at times very similar to Under a Glass Moon.
Funny thing is that even though they now had a new guy in their ranks, they sound more like a band, than they have in years. The last two albums in particular gave me a feeling that it was Petrucci, Portnoy and Rudess getting a bit carried away with their "wankery" at the expense of the songs.

icecab21 wrote:one problem i have is that some of the songs will have instrumental sections that i feel have nothing to do with the rest of the song and seem random, I'd rather they developed the instrumental sections in the context with the other sections of the song.
This has been a major turn-off for me on the later DT releases and the new album is a huge improvement in this area. I also kind of agree with Rebel that DT isn't at their strongest when writing ballads, save for Space-Dye Vest, but that was written solely by Kevin Moore I think.

agreed! kevin moore was a profilic songwriter "Only a Matter of Time" the best song hands down in the first DT album, Pull Me Under, Surrounded,Take the Time on images and words, may I say that almost half the album, and the some of the strongest in awake, 6:00, Lie, and Space-Dye Vest , the last being such a cult classic for DT fans

mayhem-for-all · Post by **mayhem-for-all** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:08 pm

adrian9 wrote:
Mormegil wrote:I've been listening to the album a lot and like I suspected before, it to me indeed sounds like their best work since Train of Thought. It often takes me back to my favourite album from them, Images and Words. And not just because of the general vibe of the album; On the Back of Angels reminds me a lot of Pull Me Under and Lost Not Forgotten sounds at times very similar to Under a Glass Moon.
Funny thing is that even though they now had a new guy in their ranks, they sound more like a band, than they have in years. The last two albums in particular gave me a feeling that it was Petrucci, Portnoy and Rudess getting a bit carried away with their "wankery" at the expense of the songs.

icecab21 wrote:one problem i have is that some of the songs will have instrumental sections that i feel have nothing to do with the rest of the song and seem random, I'd rather they developed the instrumental sections in the context with the other sections of the song.
This has been a major turn-off for me on the later DT releases and the new album is a huge improvement in this area. I also kind of agree with Rebel that DT isn't at their strongest when writing ballads, save for Space-Dye Vest, but that was written solely by Kevin Moore I think.
agreed! kevin moore was a profilic songwriter "Only a Matter of Time" the best song hands down in the first DT album, Pull Me Under, Surrounded,Take the Time on images and words, may I say that almost half the album, and the some of the strongest in awake, 6:00, Lie, and Space-Dye Vest , the last being such a cult classic for DT fans

I heard he has made some solo albums and then there is O.S.I. Have any of you heard of them?
I really liked Kevins work with DT and he wrote some amazing lyrics.

pneumonia · Post by **pneumonia** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:21 pm

Yes! I have the latest OSI release: Blood and it's really fantastic, but very different from DT, I have heard also the Ghost Book, film music and it's also very good.

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:54 pm

pneumonia wrote:Yes! I have the latest OSI release: Blood and it's really fantastic, but very different from DT, I have heard also the Ghost Book, film music and it's also very good.

yes Kevin has drifted away from metal and prog, he is more into the kind of sound he developed in space dye vest, his project is called chroma key, and is kind of wierd.
http://www.chromakey.com/#ecwid:categor ... ct=3379811

RazielSR · Post by **RazielSR** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:26 am

OTBOA video: http://www.roadrunnerrecords.co.uk/page ... _id=113323

pneumonia · Post by **pneumonia** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:42 am

I like it much more than Forsaken and Wither, although the symbols here are quite obvious. It's funny if you compare this video to "Lie" how they changed the attitude to USA:)

Rage1979 · Post by **Rage1979** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:16 am

A great album as always!

pneumonia · Post by **pneumonia** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:24 am

This is one of their best CD! It could be called i&w 2, but it would be too simple. I have to listen few more times, to say if it is a masterpiece, there are some too technical or too cheesy moments but overally it's a very good album.

RazielSR · Post by **RazielSR** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:40 pm

pneumonia wrote:This is one of their best CD! It could be called i&w 2, but it would be too simple. I have to listen few more times, to say if it is a masterpiece, there are some too technical or too cheesy moments but overally it's a very good album.

It is a grower, just wait. For me it was since the beginning and stills being a masterpiece.

AGAG · Post by **AGAG** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:56 pm

RazielSR wrote:It is a grower, just wait.

Oh, I surely hope so.

AAAAAAAAAA · Post by **AAAAAAAAAA** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:18 am

AGAG wrote:
RazielSR wrote:It is a grower, just wait.
Oh, I surely hope so.

Grower. NOT growler.

mayhem-for-all · Post by **mayhem-for-all** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:45 pm

people are having very very mixed opinnions about this album. It is being bashed really hard at metal storm by a fan boy army of Portnoy. Yet many professional critics are praising it. I haven't bought (or listened to it) yet...

RazielSR · Post by **RazielSR** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:50 pm

mayhem-for-all wrote:people are having very very mixed opinnions about this album. It is being bashed really hard at metal storm by a fan boy army of Portnoy. Yet many professional critics are praising it. I haven't bought (or listened to it) yet...

The majority of people I read in forums likes the album. And the sales, etc, etc, are going really well for Dt with this album. In US charts reached #8 with more than 35k copies the first week:

Australian Albums Chart 17
Dutch Albums Chart 2
Polish Albums Chart 38
UK Albums Chart 17
UK Rock Chart 1
Billboard 200 US Chart 8

It's always the same, you know, typical stuff regarding opinions about albums.

Burning Reflection · Post by **Burning Reflection** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:33 pm

Who cares about majority opinion? Listen to it and develop your own opinion

Musically, lyrically, conceptually, I think this is one of their best albums in a while. The songs have powerful messages backed by emotional musicianship and climatic composition. I hear some similar elements from Images and Words. There are some mighty metal moments on this album too. And...I've got orchestra tickets to see them live on Sunday!!

soo excited!!

RazielSR · Post by **RazielSR** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:45 pm

Burning Reflection wrote:Who cares about majority opinion? Listen to it and develop your own opinion

Musically, lyrically, conceptually, I think this is one of their best albums in a while. The songs have powerful messages backed by emotional musicianship and climatic composition. I hear some similar elements from Images and Words. There are some mighty metal moments on this album too. And...I've got orchestra tickets to see them live on Sunday!! soo excited!!

Of course man, it was just a comment. 100% of people could hate an album... if I like it, I don't give a fuck.

I completely agree with your opinion about the album. I hope to see them on february here in Spain.

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:52 am

If I am glad of anything in my review, it is that I didn't make it about Portnoy

adrian9 · Post by **adrian9** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:34 am

Burning Reflection wrote:Who cares about majority opinion?

I dont know...democratic elections, stadistics, makertings studies, international laws...

RazielSR · Post by **RazielSR** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:13 am

adrian9 wrote:
Burning Reflection wrote:Who cares about majority opinion?
I dont know...democratic elections, stadistics, makertings studies, international laws...

Oh yes, I suppose he was talking about buying cds based on the democracy, statistics, marketing studies and international laws voted by the majority.....

RazielSR · Post by **RazielSR** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:22 am

Rebel wrote:If I am glad of anything in my review, it is that I didn't make it about Portnoy

A new drummer does not necessarily make a new band. For fans, this is great news, and for detractors, this still probably won’t impress too much. However, for the disheartened fans of earlier material, simply frustrated with the stagnation of the recent three albums, Dream Theater’s newest release, “A Dramatic Turn of Events” is quite promising. In my mind, it was never a question of if Mike Mangini could keep up with Mike Portnoy’s talents.

Another frequent criticism of recent work had been that although the heavy material was cool to listen to, Portnoy’s “rough” vocals destroyed the song.

While the loss of Portnoy has saved the band from some of the unnecessary excesses of songs like “The Ministry of Lost Souls” or “The Shattered Fortress”, the band also loses the aggression that led to masterpieces like “The Glass Prison” or “Home”.

Oh wait...

You, and all others reviewers are using more or less around 10% to 50% (depends of the reviewer) of the ADTOE review to talk about things regarding Portnoy,

And it's normal, completely normal. But do not tell me you didn't make it about Portnoy too, cause you review his work comparing to the new one and a lot of sentences are based in Portnoy even not using his name...

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