IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

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Is Iran's nuclear capability a concern?

Hell Yes--it might cause WWIII!!!
11
23%
Somewhat
8
17%
Not at this point--just watch&see!
9
19%
None at all--Ever!
6
13%
The World should just mind its own damn business!!!
13
28%
 
Total votes: 47

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Carcass
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:33 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
Carcass wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:And Carcass, your country doesn't have its right to exist questioned by anyone. Perhaps if it was, you'd understand Shurik's position a bit more...
???

Is this an accusation... I wasn't being sarcastic, if that's what you thought...
Oh... I thought you were! Never mind then, sorry about that :oops:
No problem. :)

The post was rather unclear, it's edited now. Can't really blame you for misinterpreting it.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:23 pm

Carcass wrote:
BEG wrote:Yep, it is fruitless to repeat saying it but, Muslims lump Europe in with USA
One thing that should kept in mind is that the Muslim world is not a united front. For a lot of westerners each and every Muslim fall into one category: someone who thinks the West is a faul, degenrate place, ridden with infidels and sodomites.

The Muslim World is divided in many ethnicities such as Kurds, Arabs (which by the way is a very heterogeneous group), Indonesians, Persians, Pakistanis and Turks. Not all of them share the same world view. Moreover, the Muslim World is divided in two main religious groups: Shia Islam and Sunni Islam.

In addition, there are more or less 10 million Muslims in Western Europe alone and a lot more in the Balkans (Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria etc.). And let's not forget the 7 million living in America.

From this perspective every generalization and the theory of a clash between civilizations are laughable.
I disagree with the clash of civilizations thing being laughable. I see nothing funny about it. Have you not seen the reports of the problems that were seen in, (of all places) Malmo, Sweden?

According to the video report that I saw, the following points were made:

a) Out of a population of 250,000- one quarter of Malmo's population is now Muslim. That is one out of four, or appx 62,500 people.

b) The liberal asylum laws in Sweden currently allow asylum seekers to bring in as many relatives as they wish.

c) One school headmaster was asked about the immigrant vs. native Swede ratio in his school. He said that he had two native Swedes out of a student body of 1,000

d) Police and fire crews are reluctant to even go in to certain neighborhoods, for fear of being attacked.

e) The main mosque in Malmo was recently torched, presumably by skinheads (and I thought this was mainly a German or Russian problem, apparently not). Firefighters that arrived at the scene were greeted by people throwing rocks and other debris at them.

Now I am not suggesting that innocent people should be hurt, but until EU nations realize that their liberal asylum and legal policies are not respected by Islamic clerics, and never will be, the trouble will continue. The US would also do well to review its policies as well.

The West simply cannot tolerate the imams that are fanning the flames inside of their respective host countries. The rules should be simple; either play by the rules and obey the laws or get out and stay out.

Too much attention is being focused on "innocent" civilians that have no intention of assimilating or following the rule of law- is anyone out there at all concerned about their own countrymen and what could happen to your country?

Col. Ghadfi of Libya recently boasted of 50 million Muslims in Europe, and if Turkey joins the EU, that number will rise to 100 million. One does not have to be anti-Muslim or a racist to see the implications of this. Europe may cherish its secular leanings, but I would have to say that 100 million Muslims on the Continent may have a very different opinion of this.

Ghadfi even went on to say in his speech that "everyone" needs to be a Muslim, and that the Old and New Testaments of the Bible were forgeries! He said that the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were essentially heresy, and that the only authentic Gospel is the Gospel of St. Barnabas, which is not considered authentic by most theologians, but according to the Colonel, is.

Did you not see where France recently "leased" over $1 billion in artwork from the Lourve to Dubai? I thought that museum represented the "soul" of France, but apparently not.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:13 pm

That still doesn't equate to a clash of civilizations, IMO.

Image
Do you mean this one?

This Muslim center/mosque that was torched in Malmö was very open and everything but radical. If I'm not completely mistaken, there were (and are, it has been rebuilt as far as I know) even native non-Muslim Swedes working there as afternoon teachers. No signs of a clash in this sense.

It is true that in Sweden (and elsewhere) immigrants are concentrated to certain suburbs. That fire fighters and the police are afraid of these places is indeed very worrying. But then again, this kind of behaviour is not that uncommon in poor ares in general.

In social issues involving immigrants, the foreign cultures are emphasized way too much. I'm not saying culture doesn't play a part in the problems, but issues like poverty, bad education, alienation, discrimination etc. should be taken into account. Immigrants, just like natives, are influenced by these factors aswell.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Shurik » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:42 pm

Carcass wrote:I takes some character to think that way, Shurik! To resort to violence is very easy and tempting in your situation, I can imagine.
Well, the easy way is to nuke every square meter of Iran ... It won't bring nothing good to anyone though, because regular Iranians should not suffer because of their insane leaders. They are very different from your average brainwashed arab population ...
Even the Iranian parliament began questioning the mad dwarf's foreign politics because it really hurts the country ...
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:34 am

miditek wrote:
Carcass wrote:
BEG wrote:Yep, it is fruitless to repeat saying it but, Muslims lump Europe in with USA
One thing that should kept in mind is that the Muslim world is not a united front. For a lot of westerners each and every Muslim fall into one category: someone who thinks the West is a faul, degenrate place, ridden with infidels and sodomites.

The Muslim World is divided in many ethnicities such as Kurds, Arabs (which by the way is a very heterogeneous group), Indonesians, Persians, Pakistanis and Turks. Not all of them share the same world view. Moreover, the Muslim World is divided in two main religious groups: Shia Islam and Sunni Islam.

In addition, there are more or less 10 million Muslims in Western Europe alone and a lot more in the Balkans (Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria etc.). And let's not forget the 7 million living in America.

From this perspective every generalization and the theory of a clash between civilizations are laughable.
I disagree with the clash of civilizations thing being laughable. I see nothing funny about it. Have you not seen the reports of the problems that were seen in, (of all places) Malmo, Sweden?

According to the video report that I saw, the following points were made:

a) Out of a population of 250,000- one quarter of Malmo's population is now Muslim. That is one out of four, or appx 62,500 people.

b) The liberal asylum laws in Sweden currently allow asylum seekers to bring in as many relatives as they wish.

c) One school headmaster was asked about the immigrant vs. native Swede ratio in his school. He said that he had two native Swedes out of a student body of 1,000

d) Police and fire crews are reluctant to even go in to certain neighborhoods, for fear of being attacked.

e) The main mosque in Malmo was recently torched, presumably by skinheads (and I thought this was mainly a German or Russian problem, apparently not). Firefighters that arrived at the scene were greeted by people throwing rocks and other debris at them.

Now I am not suggesting that innocent people should be hurt, but until EU nations realize that their liberal asylum and legal policies are not respected by Islamic clerics, and never will be, the trouble will continue. The US would also do well to review its policies as well.

The West simply cannot tolerate the imams that are fanning the flames inside of their respective host countries. The rules should be simple; either play by the rules and obey the laws or get out and stay out.

Too much attention is being focused on "innocent" civilians that have no intention of assimilating or following the rule of law- is anyone out there at all concerned about their own countrymen and what could happen to your country?
Immigration is a problem everywhere. It's less an issue of religion than it is of culture. The long running problems between Asian and black communities in Birmingham for example have pretty much nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with cultural differences. That's just one example.

My friend lives in a pretty nasty part of London, which is basically a police no-go area. That has nothing to do with religion, but mostly to do with poverty.

I agree, it should be more difficult to enter a country, but again that has little to do with Islam and whatnot. Like it or not, we live in countries that defend freedom of choice and religion. And just like other criminal elements, people who operate towards goals which are less than desirable for the rest of the population will try to use some sort of cover (another reason I don't like religion is people can use it as an excuse to get away with pretty much anything).

Oh and if Turkey joins the EU (which is seeming unlikely at the moment, considering they refuse to even recognise the existance of one of its member states) the number of Muslims in Europe would probably hover around the 120 million mark, if you choose to believe Ghaddafi (but considering he now has about as much credibility as a radish, I wouldn't go that far). However, Turkey is a secular state, and its constutution jealously defends its secularism (giving the military the right to overthrow the government if it strays too far off that path) and Turks are hardly Muslims in the way that say Saudis are Muslims. Again, you're thinking that all Muslims everywhere are the same. This is a dangerous generalisation. Many Muslims like their secular lifestyles and not having to adhere closely to a religion which demands women be treated like second-class citizens, promotes narrow mindedness and bigotry, encourages ignorance and can be easily manipulated and warped, moreso than many other religions.

It is less an issue of the religion itself, than of economics and politics. Most terrorist leaders probably aren't very devout at all. They're just using religion to work towards their goals.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:11 pm

Carcass wrote:That still doesn't equate to a clash of civilizations, IMO.

Image
Do you mean this one?
Not sure, in the video, the building was on fire and was nearly destroyed already.
Carcass wrote:This Muslim center/mosque that was torched in Malmö was very open and everything but radical.


Did you attend services there, by chance?
Carcass wrote:If I'm not completely mistaken, there were (and are, it has been rebuilt as far as I know) even native non-Muslim Swedes working there as afternoon teachers. No signs of a clash in this sense.


Are you sure about that? I can't see Kuffars (infidels) being allowed to teach there. Of course, I could be wrong. The Catholic high school that I went to had some non-Catholic faculty, but that's another story.
Carcass wrote:It is true that in Sweden (and elsewhere) immigrants are concentrated to certain suburbs. That fire fighters and the police are afraid of these places is indeed very worrying. But then again, this kind of behaviour is not that uncommon in poor ares in general.
If the official census was correct, (62,500) that's an awful lot of potential rioters.
Carcass wrote:In social issues involving immigrants, the foreign cultures are emphasized way too much. I'm not saying culture doesn't play a part in the problems, but issues like poverty, bad education, alienation, discrimination etc. should be taken into account. Immigrants, just like natives, are influenced by these factors aswell.
You must be hearing the official propoganda from an "Jihad Apologists 101" class. Is poverty an issue? Possibly, but that sounds more like an excuse to me. Besides, are you trying to insinuate that Stockholm does not have a social welfare system in place for immigrants? That they don't get a single cent of tax-payer funded public assistance?

There are countless Asians that immigrate to America every year from Vietnam, China, etc. that are quite poor, but they see just getting in to America as an opportunity for future success.

Why do they (the immigrant Asians) have such high test scores in the California and other public school systems?

Liberal sociologists are forever trying to make excuses for the bad behavior of Islamic radicals, but their arguments have too many holes and can easily be discredited, even by a layman.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:07 pm

miditek wrote: You must be hearing the official propoganda from an "Jihad Apologists 101" class.
This is rather interesting to read. Most of your posts read just like propaganda. Pot calling the kettle black?

I've asked you this before but you've not answered it (amongst other things). Would you feel better if all Muslims in the US were rounded up into concentration camps?
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:24 pm

In a nutshell: if you combine irresponsible media violence, alcohol and drugs, discrimination and stigmatization you can make a person violent, no matter where he comes from.

The Nordic welfare system does not make a person rich. I don't know what you've heard, but very few enjoy living on that money. You can afford food and a roof on top of your head. I recently read a book about unemployed people in Finland. I can tell you, I was pretty freaked about what I read. If you have children, like a normal families have, you are living from hand to mouth.

This is a sociocultural issue. Saying that "two very different culture are clashing, period" is way, way too simple.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:12 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
miditek wrote: You must be hearing the official propoganda from an "Jihad Apologists 101" class.
This is rather interesting to read. Most of your posts read just like propaganda. Pot calling the kettle black?

I've asked you this before but you've not answered it (amongst other things). Would you feel better if all Muslims in the US were rounded up into concentration camps?
No not at all, but there are plenty of radical imams that I would love to see being sent to Guantanmo.

Also, the pro-Hezbollah supporters in Dearborn, Michigan are doing a lot of fundraising, which is fine with me, just as long as they do it another country.

Rounding up everyone (all Muslims) would be a legal and logistical nightmare, and it is not necessary anyway. However, the ones that are on the terror watch list, terror financiers and sympathizers need to go, and they need to go now.

You can see plenty of pro-Hamas and PLO demonstrators at UCLA, and UC-Berkeley, but we really don't see a lot of them demonstrating against terror groups, do we? That of course will naturally cause more suspicion.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:23 pm

sociologists are forever trying to make excuses for the bad behavior of Islamic radicals, but their arguments have too many holes and can easily be discredited, even by a layman.[/quote]



Right on, miditek!
It seems Europeans(and a few other countries)DO make excuses for Muslims(as well as for Pagans&other NON-Christian groups)who commit crimes&atrocities. I'm NOT imagining that.
In the USA, in ghetto aras&such, if teens&children do not have correct supervision, love,&adequate care, housing, discipline, etc. the crime rate tends to go up. BUT, you also see in these areas families that stick together, work together&live moral lives. It takes strength, faith in each other, and the will to do good. People make mistakes, its the human condition, but there is NO excuse for people(no matter what religion or race or income level)to do evil willingly in this world.
And, not all poor Muslims are criminals, just like not all rich Italians are part of the Mafia. :roll: Stereotyping of any kind is not only childish, but can be dangerous.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:47 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:

Right on, miditek!
It seems Europeans(and a few other countries)DO make excuses for Muslims(as well as for Pagans&other NON-Christian groups)who commit crimes&atrocities. I'm NOT imagining that.
Yes, yes you are imagining that.

You have obviously not lived here. Since you haven't, I cannot see how you can make such a sweeping and conclusive statement. I've made none about the USA of that manner (except about politics, and those are all satirical in any case.)

Europe has been attacked on several occasions by Islamic extremists, please do not forget that. They certainly have not forgotten that here. And no one makes excuses for any organisation based on faith. ETA is treated as harshly by the press as Al Qaeda.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:06 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote:

Right on, miditek!
It seems Europeans(and a few other countries)DO make excuses for Muslims(as well as for Pagans&other NON-Christian groups)who commit crimes&atrocities. I'm NOT imagining that.
Yes, yes you are imagining that.

You have obviously not lived here. Since you haven't, I cannot see how you can make such a sweeping and conclusive statement. I've made none about the USA of that manner (except about politics, and those are all satirical in any case.)

Europe has been attacked on several occasions by Islamic extremists, please do not forget that. They certainly have not forgotten that here. And no one makes excuses for any organisation based on faith. ETA is treated as harshly by the press as Al Qaeda.
Oh, I wasn't referring to Terrorism--I was referring to the kind of stuff Carcass&miditek were discussing. Like crimes in the poorer neighborhoods&ghettos. Street crime, in other words. It seems some do make excuses for them in that type instance.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:07 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote:

Right on, miditek!
It seems Europeans(and a few other countries)DO make excuses for Muslims(as well as for Pagans&other NON-Christian groups)who commit crimes&atrocities. I'm NOT imagining that.
Yes, yes you are imagining that.

You have obviously not lived here. Since you haven't, I cannot see how you can make such a sweeping and conclusive statement. I've made none about the USA of that manner (except about politics, and those are all satirical in any case.)

Europe has been attacked on several occasions by Islamic extremists, please do not forget that. They certainly have not forgotten that here. And no one makes excuses for any organisation based on faith. ETA is treated as harshly by the press as Al Qaeda.
Oh, I wasn't referring to Terrorism--I was referring to the kind of stuff Carcass&miditek were discussing. Like crimes in the poorer neighborhoods&ghettos. Street crime, in other words. It seems some do make excuses for them in that type instance.
Hardly. Racial discrimination is a real problem here. Some perfectly innocent people will be charged & have a more difficult time in court purely based on race. Fair and balanced trial eh?
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:28 pm

Trying to understand and study is not the same as making up excuses. Why do you think sociologists study these things in the first place? Just to give criminals a moral base to commit crimes? And sociologists are the first ones to admit their studies are not water proof, given the nature of Sociology. But saying they have a lot of big holes... you tell me then, the layperson you are, what and where the big holes are.

It is a sorry thing if understanding criminal behaviour amongst immigrants is seen as being apologetic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malm%C3%B6#Demographics

"26% of the municipal population, were born abroad as of 2006"

Born abroad, not muslims. The majority of them from Yugoslavia. No wonder that number seemed so big. Some professional journalists you have there...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139614,00.html

This article seems pretty much like what you saw. Please, don't take everything Fox News tells you so seriously. I'm sure you can see too that they are rather biased.

I'll try to find some time to watch those video clips and comment them...

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:18 pm

It needs to be more work done getting people out of poverty situations, there is no doubt about that, but like I said, people CAN rise above their economic state IF they try hard, get oportunity&have the will. As in a Strato song,"you make your own way as long as you are here."
So, really, a criminal cannot logically use their environment as a reason for commiting crimes, which is a CONSCIOUS CHOICE! Plus, like I said&I will REPEAT, there LOTS of good decent poor people who live in those ghettos who are from stable families that do the best they can&NEVER enter into the justice system.

As for innocent people being charged with a crime, yes, maybe a few fall through the cracks--but I wish people who say this happens would tell me of people they know personally, in fact, that had this happen instead of generalizing. ???

Oh, back on TOPIC:
Iran is really on the ball! =P

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16825038
ANOTHER:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16825943

IRAN CONSTITUTION:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2000/nea/786.htm

IRAN IS ENTERING THE SPACE RACE.......SORT OF:

http://space.newscientist.com/article.n ... pace_rss20
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:35 pm

browneyedgirl wrote: Oh, back on TOPIC:
Iran is really on the ball! =P

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16825038
ANOTHER:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16825943

IRAN CONSTITUTION:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2000/nea/786.htm

IRAN IS ENTERING THE SPACE RACE.......SORT OF:

http://space.newscientist.com/article.n ... pace_rss20
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:52 pm

It's the new Red Scare.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Shurik » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:05 pm

Carcass wrote:It's the new Red Scare.
Except the leader of Iran is a really really crazy person who doesn't care how many of his people will die as long as he fullfills some wacko Muslim prophecy ...
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:04 pm

NeonVomit wrote:
browneyedgirl wrote: Oh, back on TOPIC:
Iran is really on the ball! =P

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16825038
ANOTHER:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16825943

IRAN CONSTITUTION:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2000/nea/786.htm

IRAN IS ENTERING THE SPACE RACE.......SORT OF:

http://space.newscientist.com/article.n ... pace_rss20
Do you ever sleep at night? Every day you seem scared of other things...
Oh, I always sleep great at night--matter of fact I just got up from a solid 9 hour snooze&with no help from booze or Xanax! :)
And I am not scared of a thing---I simply posted links relevant to this topic. :)

@Carcass, we know Fox is biased, but what news source should people listen to, watch&read? ??? You are the Philosopher here---please enlighten us. As for wikipedia, I hope to God you do not think that is a totally reliable source, either! :)
Oh, well. As Caesar said, "People tend to believe whatever they Wish(want to)."

@Shurik, that guy sounds like another David Koresh or Luc Joret! :eek: And he is in control of a country! :shock:
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:30 pm

I quoted wikipedia cause I assumed I'm the only who reads Swedish, plus Jens of course, but he's not participating. Here's the Swedish source in case you wanna take a look:
http://www.malmo.se/faktaommalmopolitik ... 07847.html

Me, a philosopher? Hardly, but thanks anyway. :) Of course every media is biased. Articles and reports are made by few, or only a single person, there are no big expert teams behind. At lest not in Finland. Don't know how that stuff works elsewhere, but I assume things are done in the same vein.

As for Fox News, they are in their own league in being biased. They are not even trying to hide it, which in a way is a good thing. I'm used to watch "boring" news, to me Fox News is trying to be very sexy and fun to watch, this undermines it's credibility. At least in my eyes.

I think we should watch as many channels and read as many papers as possible. Even the biased ones. But it should always be kept in mind that news are products of reporters and journalists and reflect their points of views. Usually they do their best in being objective, but being 100% non-biased is impossible.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:56 pm

Carcass wrote:It's the new Red Scare.
Red scare? The Soviet Union killed tens of millions, and enslaved many more.

Have you, by chance, ever heard of a book that is titled: "Special Tasks: The Unwanted Memoirs of a former Soviet Spymaster"? It was written by former NKVD (KGB) official and unapologetic Stalinist Pavel Sudoplatov, with assistance from his son, Anatoly Sudoplatov. This is a non-fiction book, and it was totally shocking.

Among the many events that he admitted to is that there actually was a fifth column of Soviet spies, saboteurs, and the like in America during the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's, and it was one of his personal projects. He was also involved with a spy ring at Los Alamos (to steal US nuclear secrets), and also was the guy that coordinated the hit only Leon Trotsky in Mexico City, among other things. In the event of war, these people were ready to attack military and industrial targets in the States.

So if Stalin and Sudoplatov would send agents here, why not Ahmandinejad? It's not only possible, but actually is highly probable. Russia long prepared for war with America, and I am certain that Iran is ready as well.

You will see a major, major war in the Middle East, particularly with Iran and Syria in your lifetime. The time is nearly at hand.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:57 pm

So if Stalin and Sudoplatov would send agents here, why not Ahmandinejad?
Cause he's not foolish enough to do that. I don't believe he is planing to start a war with US. Where the fuck is the sense in that? Oh yeah... the prophecy you assume he seeks to fulfill.

I'm not an expert on Iranian politics, but does that midget really have the authority you believe he has? Like sending spies, planing wars and stuff. From what I 've read and understood, Iranian politics is very complex, involving the president, the supreme leader, mullahs in different councils and god knows what else.

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Shurik » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:15 pm

Carcass wrote:
So if Stalin and Sudoplatov would send agents here, why not Ahmandinejad?
Cause he's not foolish enough to do that. I don't believe he is planing to start a war with US. Where the fuck is the sense in that? Oh yeah... the prophecy you assume he seeks to fulfill.

I'm not an expert on Iranian politics, but does that midget really have the authority you believe he has? Like sending spies, planing wars and stuff. From what I 've read and understood, Iranian politics is very complex, involving the president, the supreme leader, mullahs in different councils and god knows what else.
The final say in Iranian politics is ayatollahs', but the mad dwarf is their guy, they wanted him to be elected. He says and does so much damn stupid and crazy things that even the Iranian parliament speaks out against him, not to mention simple folk. Few months ago he visited some university in Tehran and students shouted "death to the dictator" at him ...

The prophecy he believes in is that enough chaos and destruction in the world can help in bringing some long-awaited Shia prophet, Mahdi or smth like that ...
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:44 pm

Carcass wrote:
So if Stalin and Sudoplatov would send agents here, why not Ahmandinejad?
Cause he's not foolish enough to do that. I don't believe he is planing to start a war with US. Where the fuck is the sense in that? Oh yeah... the prophecy you assume he seeks to fulfill.
Ahmandinejad's beliefs and public statements have been well documented in the press, by both left and right leaning news agencies. At this point in time, I have no reason to believe that he (Ahmandinejad) doesn't believe in his self-fulfilling prophecies. Didn't Hitler do the same thing in Mein Kampf?
Carcass wrote:I'm not an expert on Iranian politics, but does that midget really have the authority you believe he has? Like sending spies, planing wars and stuff. From what I 've read and understood, Iranian politics is very complex, involving the president, the supreme leader, mullahs in different councils and god knows what else.
All governments send spies out, which are typically military attaches', in most cases where diplomatic relations exist. Since diplomatic relations do not currently exist between the US and Iran, this does not mean that they are not sending spies into the US- it simply means that they have to sneak them in here, unofficially.

And the easiest way to get them in here is on the Southern border of the US. Washington has long turned a blind eye to illegal immigration, so I would say that if I were an official in Iran's foreign intelligence agency, I would see a perfect and easy opportunity to get people in.

Terror is not the only goal, as espionage of US interests inside of the country would also be beneficial to the government in Tehran. In order to understand that enemy, you must first be able to think like he does, and to look for vulnerabilities that could be considered opportunities by the enemy itself.

Moreover, it is clearly evident that Iran is interfering in Iraq, and I agree that a "capture or kill" policy for any Iranian operatives caught inside of there is entirely appropriate. During wartime, all spies are subject to being captured and shot, and anyone that engages in the tradecraft of intelligence and counterintelligence is well aware of this.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:22 am

I haven't read of any statments refering to that prophecy. It is, of course, possible that I've missed that stuff. I'd like to see a link to a believable source that says he actually said something about his faith in this prophecy. Shouldn't be an overwhelming task if his beliefs are as well documented as you say they are.

Would Iran take the risk of sending spies to US? What if US counter intelligence catch these spies? Wouldn't that be a complete catastrophe?

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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by browneyedgirl » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:00 am

Carcass, you would not believe the tons of stuff about Iran that is being spewed out on the Internet these days! :D And the Conspiracy sites are having a field day! Some are even predicting USA or Israel will attack Iran by April&use nuclear missiles(low-grade). :D It is hard to sift through all this stuff&figure out which is reliable, and which is total Bullshit--although the latter is somewhat easy to recognize! ;)
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:10 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:Carcass, you would not believe the tons of stuff about Iran that is being spewed out on the Internet these days! :D And the Conspiracy sites are having a field day!
Yeah, some even think there's a massive OPEC conspiracy designed to destroy the US economy...
Some are even predicting USA or Israel will attack Iran by April&use nuclear missiles(low-grade). :D It is hard to sift through all this stuff&figure out which is reliable, and which is total Bullshit--although the latter is somewhat easy to recognize! ;)
Anyone stupid enough to believe that the US or Israel would attack Iran using nuclear weapons in a first-strike manner really needs to have a reality check. Yes, plenty of bullshit out there.

As for the Red Scare... yes, the USSR did imprison/oppress millons of people etc.

You don't see people getting like that about China. No one seems to be worried about them, they're too busy enjoying cheap products.

The Red Scare was being worried about an expansionist USSR. We all saw how much there was to be worried about after all, right?

There always has to be something to be worried about. Obviously terrorism is a threat, just like it always has been... but there's right and wrong ways of going about it.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by miditek » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:24 pm

Carcass wrote:I haven't read of any statments refering to that prophecy. It is, of course, possible that I've missed that stuff. I'd like to see a link to a believable source that says he actually said something about his faith in this prophecy. Shouldn't be an overwhelming task if his beliefs are as well documented as you say they are.


Sorry, HTML tags were disabled in my profile some time ago by a mod. However, here is a quote from the closing prayer of the mad twerp's speech at the UN last year. It shouldn't be too hard to confirm.

Here is an excerpt of Ahmandinejad's remarks:

"I am emphatically declare that today's world more than ever before longs for just and righteous people with love for all humanity, and above all longs for the perfect, righteous human being and the real savior who has been promised to all peoples and who will establish justice, peace and brotherhood on the planet. [The Twelfth Imam] Oh Almighty God, all men and women are your creatures and you have ordained their guidance and salvation. Bestow upon humanity that thirst for justice, the perfect human being promised to all by you, and make us among his followers among those who strive for his return and his cause."

He also made the following remark regarding the vaunted UN Security Council:

"Is it appropriate to expect this generation to submit to[to the Security Council]?"

Carcass wrote:Would Iran take the risk of sending spies to US? What if US counter intelligence catch these spies? Wouldn't that be a complete catastrophe?
Why wouldn't they run the risk? From the Iranian viewpoint, or from any intelligence agency's viewpoint, is that the tradecraft of counterintelligence is fraught with risks, but also loaded with benefits.

China and Russia have long spied on the US, although much of China's spying probably falls under the corporate espionage program, as recent events of spying had rocked Silicon Valley last year. The Chinese do it for the potential for profit by stealing trade secrets.

Russia's spying is nothing new, either. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed for selling nuclear secrets to Sudoplatov's gang in the late 1940's.

Iran would most likely spy here to test and probe for weakness and security holes in our national defense system. Have face to face meetings with Hezbollah's stateside financial backers, so as not to run the risk of intercepted telephone calls. There is a long list of obvious reasons as to why Iranian operatives would be here in the US, and if you were them, wouldn't you be?

Many of these same spies have also been caught making trouble inside of Iraq, and there is actual documented proof of this, since we actually have custody of these operatives.

These opinions have nothing to do with "Islamophobia" or "Paranoia", it's actually understanding the enemy.
What drives him. What motivates him. What scares him. What does he want? What does he stand to gain? How far is he willing to go? That is essential for dealing with any enemy.

Just this week, three men of Middle Eastern descent attempted to enter the main factory of Barrett Industries, just outside of Nashville. Barrett is a leading manufacturer of military-grade .50 cal sniper rifles that are used by the 5th Spec Forces, among others. When questioned by the security guards, the men became evasive and irate, and left the premises.

The local police and agents of the Dept. of Homeland Security are looking for them now. It was stupid of them to try and approach the factory, since Austrian manufacturer Steyr Industries will sell clones of the Barrett rifles to almost anyone with no questions. The Iranian Revolutionary Guards recently issued a purchase order for over 600 of the Steyr branded rifles late last year. Where do you think that those rifles will eventually end up?
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by NeonVomit » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:52 am

miditek wrote: "Islamophobia" or "Paranoia"
Take your pick.
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Re: IRAN'S Nuclear Capability

Post by Carcass » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:05 am

I wouldn't jump to any conclusions based on this quote. But who knows... I never said there is nothing to worry about.

He is a religious nut, but he is also very big in his mouth.

BTW, my history professor is an expert on the Muslim World. It would be interesting to hear what he would have to add.

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