At last..IDF finally responds

Talk about everything else besides Stratovarius here in English. Please try to put more serious topics here, and silly topics in the Spam section.

Who will win the election for PM of Israel?

Tvipi Livni (Kadima party- centrist)
2
18%
Benyamin 'Bibi' Netanyahu (Likud party- right of center)
8
73%
Labour party (left of center) candidate- yeah, when pigs fly!
1
9%
 
Total votes: 11

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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by miditek » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:10 am

JensJohansson wrote:The 'they' that are doing the preaching, begging and shouting for war and Death are often not the same 'they' receiving it in the end. 'They' is such a general word -- it can actually refer to everyone on Earth except the person speaking it.
I sort of looked at 'they' as a substitute for a collection of enemies of the west- and Israel, but includes Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, Al-Quaeda, the Taliban, and the whole motley collection of dictatorships and authoritarian monarchies in the Middle East. The only tie that binds them at all is the hatred of the west, and of Israel.

It's also important to realize that the media in the west never ceases trumping the fact that Hamas are the 'democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people.' These people actually do support Hamas, and are raising generation after generation of kids to do nothing but hate, and to plot to destroy Israel. They are part of the world's largest blood cult, and consider it to be an honor to die in battle against the infidel. Martyrdom is the crowning achievement of any dedicated Muslim.
Lightyear wrote:I have a question for miditek and BEG. Please answer it honestly. Why the fuck is it impossible for Israel to recognize the 1967 borders ??? After all, that is all the Hamas wants really.
Did you see what Shurik wrote? Pre-1967 borders will never satisfy anyone in the Middle East, from Hamas to the House of Saud. Moreover, the UN mandate in Palestine partitioned some 53% of the land ceded by the former Ottoman Empire (Turkey) that was lost after the conclusion of World War I.

That country, originally known as Transjordan, lost its territory in the West Bank after the Six Day War in 1967- and Gaza was originally Egyptian territory.

But don't take my word for it- here is the full text of the Hamas Charter if there are any doubts of their intentions- http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

Let us also not forget the classic words of Muhammed himself, "Negotiate with your enemy until you are strong enough to destroy him."
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by browneyedgirl » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:14 am

There is an interpretation of the White Horseman of the Apocalypse which states it symbolizes Islam, which is now the world's fastest growing religion.
I'll explain that all later, but it does make sense as the white horseman symbolizes a false religion that goes forth to conquer. Ishmael(Father of all Arabs) was an archer&the man on the white horse carries a bow.

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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by NeonVomit » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:17 pm

If I convert to Judaism will I go to heaven?
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by miditek » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:38 pm

NeonVomit wrote:If I convert to Judaism will I go to heaven?
But you won't get your 72 virgins if you do that. (The jury is still out as to the actual gender and species of the aforementioned though.)

Besides, if the Turks were lobbing mortars and rockets at you, I'm sure you'd respond disproportionately as well.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by NeonVomit » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:27 pm

miditek wrote:
NeonVomit wrote:If I convert to Judaism will I go to heaven?
But you won't get your 72 virgins if you do that. (The jury is still out as to the actual gender and species of the aforementioned though.)

Besides, if the Turks were lobbing mortars and rockets at you, I'm sure you'd respond disproportionately as well.
Well, slight difference in situation. Ours is a country internationally recognised, an EU member state and with fully functioning armed forces. There was a good article in today's local paper comparing the two situations, I'll see if I can find an online version.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by browneyedgirl » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:02 pm

Since ground troops have commenced in Gaza it has been reported the Palestinians have been putting up a good defense--holding their own. Not many reporters allowed in, though. So who knows what is credible?
Hamas is still shooting rockets over to Israel, and has destroyed a few Israeli tanks reportedly.

I don't know how far Shurik lives from the active fighting over there, but I'd be scared to death! :shock:

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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Shurik » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:31 pm

it has been reported the Palestinians have been putting up a good defense--holding their own.
Lies, they are brave only when speaking from fortified bunkers. In fact, over 100 of them were killed during first few days and more injured or captured.
and has destroyed a few Israeli tanks reportedly.
Also bullshit. They release statements like these to Arab media mostly (Al-Jazeera and such) in order to induce a confusion and panic in Israelis. They've also reported that they've captured an IDF soldier, which was bullshit too ...
I don't know how far Shurik lives from the active fighting over there, but I'd be scared to death!
The fighting is in the southern parts of Israel and I live in the north. I had my share of rockets 2.5 years ago during the war with Lebanon.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Shurik » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:51 am

Something a bit funny:
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by miditek » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:32 am

Arf! Arf! :D

Image


edit/update: as of Thu 8 Jan 2009 there are now reports that the region's other major terror group (and a proxy of Iran) Hezbollah, are now firing rockets into northern Israel. A laser-guided smart bomb may find Sheik Nasrallah yet.

A toast- to the brave young men and women in the IDF along with death and damnation for the jihadists.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by browneyedgirl » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:23 am

 
The war of double standards
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephill ... ards.thtml

An excellent analysis by David Horowitz in the Jerusalem Post ponders the tragic dilemma facing Israel:
Hamas gunmen are commandeering ambulances and taking children out with them to battle, according to Israeli security sources. At every moment, with every use of firepower, there is the potential for Palestinian civilian casualties. As they mourn the loss of five soldiers, IDF commanders are well aware of the mounting Palestinian civilian casualty toll. They are bitterly cognizant of the reality in which Israel is blamed internationally for every such death - ratcheting up the international protests and the international pressure for a cease-fire. This impacts Israel's leverage as it seeks acceptable terms for a halt to the fighting - no matter that it is Hamas that has deliberately located its offensive capabilities in the heart of the Gazan populace. Indeed, for large swathes of western opinion there is virtually no depravity Hamas can commit which will even be reported, let alone condemned; yet when Israel goes to war to defend itself against slaughter the west is consumed by hysterical rage, so much so that it quite clearly would rather Hamas was allowed to survive to continue its murderous rampages. As this horrific video obtained by Jihadwatch shows, this is the kind of thing to which the west is turning a blind eye: Hamas men apparently literally dragging off children at random to be used as human shields.

As Alan Dershowitz notes, Hamas's 'CNN' strategy is working. The casualties are referred to as if they are all civilians, whereas according to Israel and even the UN the vast majority are Hamas operatives; and blame for the deaths of actual civilians is apportioned not to Hamas who have used them as human shields but Israel for firing at the terrorists hiding behind them.
The world simply doesn't seem to care when Arabs and Muslims kill large numbers of other Arabs and Muslims, but a qualitatively different standard applies when the Jewish state kills even a relatively small number of Muslims and Arabs in a war of self-defence. The international community doesn't even seem to care when Palestinian children are killed by rocket fire — unless it is from Israeli rockets. The day before the recent outbreak, Hamas fired an anti-personnel rocket at Israeli civilians, but the rocket fell short of its target and killed two Palestinian girls. Yet there was virtually no coverage and absolutely no protests against these 'collateral' civilian deaths. Hamas refused to allow TV cameras to show these dead Palestinian children.
Nor have there been protests against the cold-blooded murders by Hamas and its supporters of dozens of Palestinian civilians who allegedly 'collaborated' with Israel. Indeed, Hamas and Fatah have killed far more Palestinian civilians over the past several years than have the Israelis, but you wouldn't know that from the media, the United Nations or protesters who focus selectively on only those deaths caused by Israeli military actions.
 
Steven Plaut makes a similar point about the pathological and obsessive double standards applied to Israel:
Over the years, 65,000 people have been killed in the war with the Tamils in Sri Lanka, almost all of them civilians.Meanwhile not a single Solidarity-with-the-Tamil-Tigers protest has been organized on a single Western campus or in a single downtown square. Jewish leftists have not taken to the streets to demand an end to the war of aggression against the Tamils. Leftist websites have not proclaimed every injury of a Tamil civilian to be a Nazi-like war crime by Sri Lanka and an act of genocide.
The Eurocrats have not pontificated about how the Sri Lankan response to terror was out of proportion. The BBC did not describe the Tamil suicide bombers as activists. The International Solidarity Movement has not sent in protesters from the West to try to defend the terrorists. Communists and fellow travelers have not organized flotillas of boats carrying aid to the terrorists to 'break the siege.' Hundreds of non-governmental organizations claiming to be concerned about human rights have not rushed aid to the terrorists in the name of humanitarian concerns.... Those silly, naïve Sri Lankans ignored all the sage advice and just went ahead and solved their problem of terrorism with a military solution.
Indeed: the Sri Lankans long ago understood the point that the
post-national, post-moral, post-rational west simply cannot grasp -- that asymmetric warfare can only be solved by military means.      

-----------------------
Iran is sending 2000 tons of aid to the Palestinians via ship, due to arrive Saturday. Lets hope food, clothes&medicine is all it is! Iran has said if Israel so much as just searches this ship it will be declared an act of war.

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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by miditek » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:35 pm

Act of war, eh? Something Iran knows a great deal about. Buzzing U.S. Warships in the Persian Gulf in their pathetic little speedboats- just begging to be shot out from under them. They probably are trying to instigate a new Gulf of Tonkin type of incident.

Hmmm, Katyusha rockets purchased from either Russia or China, and certainly distributed by Iran to Hamas and Hezbollah to be fired at.civilians in Israel. We certainly don't see them targeting IDF installations now, do we? It must be Bush's "fault", while Putin and Ahmandinejihad sit in the shadows, amused with their handiwork.

Hamas's brave leader is hiding in Damascus, so he is in no immediate danger, unless the IDF decides to buzz his house, just as they did with Bashir Assad not too long ago.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:42 pm

miditek wrote: My state issues concealed weapons permits, with certain rules. I keep a Beretta Cougar 8000F 9mm strapped on nearly all the time, except at work, of course, but it and spare mags are kept within easy reach in the car, and I also keep a 12 gauge riot gun, and an assault rifle at the ready at home- just in case of such an occasion. I would very much like to add a Finnish Valmet/Sako AK-47 (very high quality arms) to my collection. If jihadists get out of line here in the U.S., there are multitudes of armed citizens that will smoke them without hesitation.
Thats f*cking retard and dangerous. You and your "fellow armed citizens" must be really dangerous to the people around you. Probably you'll kill someone some day. No wonder the US is such a shit place and going down the drain at such a speedy rate these days. I just hope you take Israel and the whole Middle East down the drain with you.

The world is better off without all of you retards.

As for Israel, they are doing exactly what the were subject to 70 years ago.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Shurik » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:57 pm

As for Israel, they are doing exactly what the were subject to 70 years ago.
Yes, IDF loads peace-loving Palestinians on trains, takes them to concentration camps and executes with gases.

True story.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:12 am

Shurik wrote: Yes, IDF loads peace-loving Palestinians on trains, takes them to concentration camps and executes with gases.

True story.
Nah, technology has improved greatly since then. You just bomb them till they are pulverized. Far easier and it leaves no trace or remains. Why bother with gases and corpses...

IDF...it should be IAF (Israeli Attack Force).

History has taught you nothing.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Shurik » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:12 pm

Bathory Killcraft wrote:
Shurik wrote: Yes, IDF loads peace-loving Palestinians on trains, takes them to concentration camps and executes with gases.

True story.
Nah, technology has improved greatly since then. You just bomb them till they are pulverized. Far easier and it leaves no trace or remains. Why bother with gases and corpses...

IDF...it should be IAF (Israeli Attack Force).

History has taught you nothing.
After years and years of arguing over this issue on the internet, complete ignorance of some people still amazes me. I could write a long responce about how Hamas and such has killed Israeli children long before this military operation and how "peaceful" Palestinians cheered on the streets when Israeli children died, but you probably won't listen, so I see no point in wasting my time. You obviously know nothing about Holocaust too.

Just look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphinari ... de_bombing

Too bad we didn't level Gaza and the West Bank after this.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by miditek » Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:48 pm

@bathroy just so you know, Israel does not need anyone's permission to defend itself, particularly from Nihilstic blood cults and terror groups such as Hamas that litter the Islamic world.

Moreover, history is one subject that could actually help you- if you'll read up on it sometime, and it might even move you to abandon this irrational hatred that you have towards the Jews. It's a phenomenon.that sociologists refer to as anti-semitism.

I need to post a link to the Jaeger (Hunter) Report for you. On the surface, it looks like a simple ledger book that is commonly used by accountants and bookkeepers- however, this particular one is very different. It documented the activities of the Einsatzgruppen of the Waffen-SS in eastern Europe, and showed the number of 'Jews', 'Jewesses', 'Kinder' (Children), 'Gypsies', 'Kommisars', along with other 'undesirables' that were killed in each village and town. Some journal entries listed the status of certain towns as 'Juden rein'- which means (already) free of Jews.

The rest of the Arab world doesn't give a damn about the people in Gaza or the West Bank, and if it were truly their Arab 'brethern' as they claim, then the wealthier Gulf states would welcome these third, fourth, and fifth generation refugees to come live with them.

Unfortunately, the PLO's terror campaigns virtually guaranteed that would never happen- with one glaring example being when King Hussein of Jordan expelled 'Black September' (the same gang that was responsible for the massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics at Munich) from his country.If you cannot look at history and see the the cynical manipulation of the people in Gaza and the West Bank as mere pawns (and we are talking women and children being used as human shields, and then proudly parading their corpses in front of the morbid, Necrophiliac Western media), by.fellow Arabs, and not to mention Persians, then you are sadly being decieved. Israel is the sole democracy in a sea of dictatorships in the Middle East.

There were millions of Germans that were displaced from East Prussia.(Which is now Western Poland) after WWII, and we don't see them running around blowing themselves up!

"And the armies of the world gathered to a place in the Hebrew tounge called Megiddo"- Revelation 16:16
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:59 pm

Shurik wrote:After years and years of arguing over this issue on the internet, complete ignorance of some people still amazes me. I could write a long responce about how Hamas and such has killed Israeli children long before this military operation and how "peaceful" Palestinians cheered on the streets when Israeli children died, but you probably won't listen, so I see no point in wasting my time. You obviously know nothing about Holocaust too.

Just look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphinari ... de_bombing

Too bad we didn't level Gaza and the West Bank after this.
I agree one one thing. Arguing over this issue on the internet is useless.

Apart from that, my opinion is the same. I don't think Palestinians or Arabs for the matter are peaceful in any way. I think they are just as warmongering as Israel is, thats why I would like to see the whole Middle East completely destroyed, both Arab states and Israel.

By the way, Israel has its own concentration camp, far bigger than Auswitz. It's called the Gaza Strip.
miditek wrote:@bathroy just so you know, Israel does not need anyone's permission to defend itself, particularly from Nihilstic blood cults and terror groups such as Hamas that litter the Islamic world.
I have stated already that Israel is just as warmongering as the arabs are, only far more effective and clinical in their killings. The ratio is probably 1 Israeli to 100 Arabs(be it Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, whatever) dead.
miditek wrote:Moreover, history is one subject that could actually help you- if you'll read up on it sometime, and it might even move you to abandon this irrational hatred that you have towards the Jews. It's a phenomenon.that sociologists refer to as anti-semitism.
I am not taking history lessons from a yank. I am not any more anti-semite than I am anti-arab or basically anti-anything that poses a threat to a homogeneous Indoeuropean culture, land and blood.
miditek wrote:to post a link to the Jaeger (Hunter) Report for you. On the surface, it looks like a simple ledger book that is commonly used by accountants and bookkeepers- however, this particular one is very different. It documented the activities of the Einsatzgruppen of the Waffen-SS in eastern Europe, and showed the number of 'Jews', 'Jewesses', 'Kinder' (Children), 'Gypsies', 'Kommisars', along with other 'undesirables' that were killed in each village and town. Some journal entries listed the status of certain towns as 'Juden rein'- which means (already) free of Jews.
I can also state sources that refute a lot of these claims. It will be a waste of my time. I'll be immediately branded a holocaust denier or a historical revisionist so I won't bother. By the way I wonder why is this that the Hebrews claim sole rights to holocaust victimisation when even you yourself state there were many other groups or subgroups of people subjected to violence and ethnic cleansing.
miditek wrote:The rest of the Arab world doesn't give a damn about the people in Gaza or the West Bank, and if it were truly their Arab 'brethern' as they claim, then the wealthier Gulf states would welcome these third, fourth, and fifth generation refugees to come live with them.

Unfortunately, the PLO's terror campaigns virtually guaranteed that would never happen- with one glaring example being when King Hussein of Jordan expelled 'Black September' (the same gang that was responsible for the massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics at Munich) from his country.If you cannot look at history and see the the cynical manipulation of the people in Gaza and the West Bank as mere pawns (and we are talking women and children being used as human shields, and then proudly parading their corpses in front of the morbid, Necrophiliac Western media), by.fellow Arabs, and not to mention Persians, then you are sadly being decieved. Israel is the sole democracy in a sea of dictatorships in the Middle East.
As I said earlier in my post I support the destruction of the Middle East in its entirety. That means both Israel and the Arab states. They don't give a flying f*ck about my problems so why should I give a flying f*ck about theirs. Israel is a military democracy armed to the teeth by the US. No US backing = no Israel so they better stop bragging about how they are kicking asses in military terms, etc. What exactly do they produce apart from weapons and maybe trance music? Thats right, nothing.

By the way where is this "the Palestianians use civilians as human shields" shit coming from? Did they do that in that Red Cross School too? Whats the source? The Israeli Ministry of Defence? Sounds more like inept bombing targeting and apathy to civilian casualties than anything else. In that respect they are no better than the Palestinians who admittedly happily kill civilians left, right and centre.
miditek wrote:There were millions of Germans that were displaced from East Prussia.(Which is now Western Poland) after WWII, and we don't see them running around blowing themselves up!
That's called consequences of a military defeat. Germany lost the war. Wars are often followed by forced population exchanges. Make no mistake lots of Germans consider East Prussia still a German land.

Hebrews were given a (planted) state as a consequence of the holocaust. There have been genocides through the ages (the armenian genocide comes readily in mind) but for some reason humanity owes only to Israel.

By the way, I read on a previous post of yours that you proclaimed Hebrews to be God's chosen people. If you are serious about that then you are probably as dangerous as those arab f*cks that blow themselves up in the air.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Shurik » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:53 pm

By the way, Israel has its own concentration camp, far bigger than Auswitz. It's called the Gaza Strip.
Again, you display a complete lack of understanding of both the Holocaust and the current situation in Israel.

Wait, the rest of your post is just too funny to pass ...
I have stated already that Israel is just as warmongering as the arabs are, only far more effective and clinical in their killings.
And that's why our peace-loving neighbours attacked Israel on the very same day Israel was created and continue to do so until now. That's why Israel signed a peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan. That's why we left Gaza 2.5 years ago, dismantling the settlements. Yeah, Israel is a warmongering state.
I am not taking history lessons from a yank. I am not any more anti-semite than I am anti-arab or basically anti-anything that poses a threat to a homogeneous Indoeuropean culture, land and blood.
So you are a racist who hates everything non-Indoeuropean. And you lecture people about concentration camps and such. That called hypocrisy.
I'll be immediately branded a holocaust denier or a historical revisionist so I won't bother.
Yes, you will be called a Holocaust denier because you are a Holocaust denier and know nothing about the history of WWII. Most of the families from both my mother's and father's sides were murdered by your Indoeuropean cultured friends in all sorts of forests around Chernigov, Kiev, Gomel etc. But I guess those stories are just a wild zionist imagination ...
By the way I wonder why is this that the Hebrews claim sole rights to holocaust victimisation when even you yourself state there were many other groups or subgroups of people subjected to violence and ethnic cleansing.
Again, you don't know what are you talking about. In Babiy Yar, near Kiev, where tens of thousands of Jews were killed during few days in September 1941 and many more Jews, communists, Gypsies and other undesired elements of new Nazi society where killed during the Nazi occupation of Ukraine, the first monument was dedicated to Soviet citizens who died during the war, without mentioning their nationality. Only after the end of USSR separate monument was built there. There are memorials in almost every city in those parts of former Soviet Union that where occupied by Nazis.

But I guess you can provide documents that nothing happened there too.
What exactly do they produce apart from weapons and maybe trance music? Thats right, nothing.
This is probably the funniest part. Yes, Israel produces a shitload of quality weapons and military-related systems. But, ever heard of Israeli agriculture? Wines? Hi-tech companies? Little program called ICQ? One of Intel's main R&D centers is in Haifa (great place to work, or so I heard). Vishay (a large world-famous firm that produces a passive electronic parts like capacitors, resistors, strain-gages and such) is an Israeli company. Iscar, one of world-leading companies that produces cutting tools, is an Israeli company, etc etc etc.

But it's more fun talking about stuff you have no idea about.
By the way where is this "the Palestianians use civilians as human shields" shit coming from? Did they do that in that Red Cross School too? Whats the source? The Israeli Ministry of Defence? Sounds more like inept bombing targeting and apathy to civilian casualties than anything else. In that respect they are no better than the Palestinians who admittedly happily kill civilians left, right and centre.
My friends who were there tell the same stories - Hamas fires only when it's well-protected by civilians, preferably children. If it makes Israelis not attack - it's good. If Israelis attack and kill the kids - it's even better, Hamas will present the bodies to the press and tell about an evil Zionists who want just to kill the poor Palestinian children. And I do believe the Ministry of Defense.
That's called consequences of a military defeat. Germany lost the war. Wars are often followed by forced population exchanges.
Arabs lost the wars with Israel (the wars they opened themselves). Wars are often followed by forced population exchanges.
There have been genocides through the ages (the armenian genocide comes readily in mind) but for some reason humanity owes only to Israel.
The sad thing about Armenian genocide is that no one in the world wants to piss off Turkey who don't want to admit the massacre, almost 100 years after it happened. Armenian Holocaust was just as horrible as Jewish.

And you forget that genocides go on now in Africa (Sudan comes to mind readily) - the world doesn't seem to care much. But when Israel starts to defend itself against bloodthirsty Hamas terrorists - oy gevald, this is horrible! How dare those damn Jews to defend themselves! I understood a long time ago that those protests during each Israeli military operation have nothing to do with opposing to certain policies or protecting the Palestinians. It's pure and simple anti-semitism.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:02 pm

Shurik wrote:Again, you display a complete lack of understanding of both the Holocaust and the current situation in Israel.
Gaza is a modern concentration camp. The living standards there is non existent. You pack hundred thousands people in there, cut them off the from the rest of the world then dare call that dignifying living. And lets not forget the wall of hate.

I reiterate, history taught nothing to your people.

And as I said in my previous post, I don't take history lessons from non-europeans.
Shurik wrote:And that's why our peace-loving neighbours attacked Israel on the very same day Israel was created and continue to do so until now. That's why Israel signed a peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan. That's why we left Gaza 2.5 years ago, dismantling the settlements. Yeah, Israel is a warmongering state.
Arabs are not peace loving. They are backward people and very dangerous in their religious outbreak. They have no concern about human life, environment or the future for that matter.

The Gaza settlements I understand were illegal, no?
Shurik wrote:So you are a racist who hates everything non-Indoeuropean. And you lecture people about concentration camps and such. That called hypocrisy.
I don't keep hundred thousands of impoverished palestinians in a few square kilometres of land, your people do.
Shurik wrote:Yes, you will be called a Holocaust denier because you are a Holocaust denier and know nothing about the history of WWII. Most of the families from both my mother's and father's sides were murdered by your Indoeuropean cultured friends in all sorts of forests around Chernigov, Kiev, Gomel etc. But I guess those stories are just a wild zionist imagination ...
Again, I don't take lessons of history from non-europeans. Name one person even in this board that doesn't have family killed in the war. I most certainly have. In Dresden for example.
Shurik wrote:Again, you don't know what are you talking about. In Babiy Yar, near Kiev, where tens of thousands of Jews were killed during few days in September 1941 and many more Jews, communists, Gypsies and other undesired elements of new Nazi society where killed during the Nazi occupation of Ukraine, the first monument was dedicated to Soviet citizens who died during the war, without mentioning their nationality. Only after the end of USSR separate monument was built there. There are memorials in almost every city in those parts of former Soviet Union that where occupied by Nazis.

But I guess you can provide documents that nothing happened there too.
Don't kid yourself. Of all people killed in the war (half of them Soviet) people today remember and are sensitive only about the Hebrews.
Shurik wrote:This is probably the funniest part. Yes, Israel produces a shitload of quality weapons and military-related systems. But, ever heard of Israeli agriculture? Wines? Hi-tech companies? Little program called ICQ? One of Intel's main R&D centers is in Haifa (great place to work, or so I heard). Vishay (a large world-famous firm that produces a passive electronic parts like capacitors, resistors, strain-gages and such) is an Israeli company. Iscar, one of world-leading companies that produces cutting tools, is an Israeli company, etc etc etc.
Ok, I take that back. You invented ICQ.
Shurik wrote:My friends who were there tell the same stories - Hamas fires only when it's well-protected by civilians, preferably children.
Your friends must be a very reliable source.
Shurik wrote: And I do believe the Ministry of Defense.
And you want me to take you seriously after that remark?
Shurik wrote:Arabs lost the wars with Israel (the wars they opened themselves). Wars are often followed by forced population exchanges.
There was no state of Israel prior to 1948. You got your state because of the debt humanity felt they owed you after the holocaust. I am sure you know that better than me.
Shurik wrote:The sad thing about Armenian genocide is that no one in the world wants to piss off Turkey who don't want to admit the massacre, almost 100 years after it happened. Armenian Holocaust was just as horrible as Jewish.
That's something we agree in.
Shurik wrote:And you forget that genocides go on now in Africa (Sudan comes to mind readily) - the world doesn't seem to care much. But when Israel starts to defend itself against bloodthirsty Hamas terrorists - oy gevald, this is horrible! How dare those damn Jews to defend themselves! I understood a long time ago that those protests during each Israeli military operation have nothing to do with opposing to certain policies or protecting the Palestinians. It's pure and simple anti-semitism.
No I don't forget genocides wherever they occur I just can't be bothered anymore. The fact that the whole world bar the US protests and revolts against the scale of violence you use in Palestine is no coincidence. How does killing children is "defending yourselves against bloodthirsty Hamas terrorists?" One third of the casualties so far are children I read. Now I don't say you are targeting civilians but you don't bother if they are killed either.

But I guess the whole world is anti-semite now, no?...
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by miditek » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:22 am

There was no State of Israel prior to 1948
Again, you lack of knowledge of history is astounding. The archaelogical evidence of ancient Israel that exists in modern day Israel is a veritable treasure trove for both archaeologists and anthropologists alike!

Israel existed thousands of years before the appearance of Mohammed. Take a look at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem for instance, it is the last remnant of the Second Temple which was destroyed in 69 A.D. by the legions of the Roman emperor Titus. Moreover, the ruins of the Arch of Titus, with inscriptions in Latin commerating the burning and sacking of Jerusalem- still stands to this very day in Rome. These events occurred almost 2,000 years ago.

The First Temple (built by King Solomon) goes back even further. There is also an abundance of other historical data that chronicles the existence of the Jews in their ancestral lands for the past 5,000 years.

Why on Earth would Iranian Jews exist to this day? Perhaps due to the fact that many ancient Jews were once captive of the Persian Empire.
The same rule of thumb once applied to the Jews that populated what is now modern day Iraq- as they were once held by the old Babylonian Empire.

The Jews do not have a monopoly on memorials of Genocide- as there has been plenty of attention given others, such as the major motion picture "The Killing Fields", which starred Dr. Haing S. Ngor, who himself was a survivor of the genocide perpetrated by the Communist Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, who wiped out some 2 million or 1/4 of their own countrymen!

Let us also not forget the recent film, "Hotel Rwanda", in addition to many other films and documentaries that have helped to illustrate the depravity of man.

Also, regarding this supposed Indoeuropean superiority gospel that you're subscribing to- it is important to remember that Europe itself is the birthplace of three of the worst and murderous political systems in history; Communism in Russia, Fascism in Italy, and of course, Nazism in Germany, all of which are collectively responsible for the deaths of over 100 million people.

It is Europe that has not learned the lessons of bistory, and it is still as virulently antisemitic as ever. Perhaps after 2 billion or more die in WWIII due to the ongoingappeasement of antisemitic thugs that Europe is spearheading, then the true lesson will be finally learned.

Europeans are in mortal danger as well, just take a look at riots in London, stabbings in Amsterdam, car burnings in Paris, and gang beatings and rapes of young girls in Malmo. Keep bringing in your enemies, and you'll soon discover that Europe will have to stand up for itself, or get used to paying the Jizya tax and being reduced to Dhimmi status- which is already well under way.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:49 am

miditek wrote:
There was no State of Israel prior to 1948
Again, you lack of knowledge of history is astounding. The archaelogical evidence of ancient Israel that exists in modern day Israel is a veritable treasure trove for both archaeologists and anthropologists alike!
If thats what you understood then let me correct...There was no OFFICIAL State of Israel prior to 1948 and for many years; I don't dispute the very existence of Hebrew people in the area since time immemorial. Thats all I need to say. Kurdish people have a long history too - but no state of their own. They are dispersed. Asia minor was a Greek territory thousands of years before the Ottoman Turks arrived. Today it belongs to Turkey.

"People" is different from "state". For one reason or another Hebrews were dispersed. After the war they got a state as a means of renumeration for the holocaust.

As for the the rest, I re-reiterate; I don't take history lessons from non-europeans. Don't give me lectures on military barbarity - your country is the sole example in history to use the atomic bomb on civilians.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Shurik » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:01 am

I don't take history lessons from non-europeans.
Out of pure curiosity - do you seriously think that non-europeans don't know history? :lol: I am a european (sort of, at least), I was born in former USSR, may I teach some history to you?

The rest, all that "concentration camps, wall of hate etc" stuff, can be easily dismissed if you'll think about what came first - Hamas' rockets or a blockade, suicide bombings or the building of the wall. Wikipedia can help you, if don't believe us puny untermenschen ...
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by miditek » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:26 am

@bathroy, did it ever occur to you that there are people outside of Europe that may know as much or more about Germany's history than you?

For instance, for centuries Germany itself was far from united- more like a loose confederation of over 300 kingdoms and principalities, such as Prussia, Bavaria, and other smaller states, and the modern German state was not united until three wars were fought by Bismark, and all of this occurred less than eighty years before the birth of modern Israel!

Or perhaps it might surprise you to learn that one of Germany's greatest generals, Von Manstein, was actually Polish (born a Lewinski) by birth! Or that Admiral Doenitz did everything that he could to protect Jewish officers in the Kreigsmarine, or that there were plenty of Jews that served Germany in WWI, many of which won the Iron Cross First Class!

You also claim that Israel never existed as a state before 1948, which is not accurate at all. Even an amateur historian can disprove that. Ancient Israel had a monarchy, an army, civil administration, courts, religious leaders, taxes, and plenty of other proof that it existed as a nation.

In fact, there were not one, but two distinct Jewish nations; the Kingdom of Israel in the north, and the Kingdom of Judah to the south. Even secular historians and archaeologists can confirm this.

Getting back to modern Israel, perhaps it might never have been recreated had the Germans not instigated the Holocaust to begin with. I remain quite sure that Hitler must be frothing with rage when he looks up from Hell and sees that not only are the Jews alive and well, but once again, have their own nation, their own army, and are quite capable of kicking the living shit out of of their opponents on more than one front, which is something Germany failed to do in not onen but two world wars.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by AAAAAAAAAA » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:18 am

As for the the rest, I re-reiterate; I don't take history lessons from non-europeans.
I'm really not convinced that you take history lessons at all :lol:

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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by JensJohansson » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:42 pm

ObGodwinAttempt:

Image

Seriously though, I doubt we can solve this here. I don't mean by that that you shouldn't talk about it here of course. Talk about whatever you want :lol:

Not terribly relevant to this discussion, but re history lessons, I'm currently reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag:_A_History

American writer, knows a hell of a lot about recent Russian (Soviet) history. An amazing book in its restraint somehow, because the subject is quite emotional to a lot of people here. Lenin and Stalin killed a lot more Soviet citizens than Hitler did German citizens.

FWIW I'm Swedish and don't think any of my relatives were harmed in the two last world wars. Sweden managed to stay out of both though. Perhaps by having had enough of that kind of "fun" in previous centuries..

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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by browneyedgirl » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:05 pm

To kinda go back to the Israel/Palestine feud, if the Palestinians get "kicked out" of Gaza, why doesn't Hugo Chavez invite about 2 million of them to live in his country? There are many countries which(as shown by the sympathy protests)would welcome them with open arms if worse came to worse.
UK,France, Canada, New Zealand, Brazil for starters could take Palestinians in and give them sanctuary.
Or does this sympathy simply stem from hatred of USA&Israel? Is that what its REALLY all about? ???

This sounds kinda weird, but I'm wondering if the excessive attention given to the present conflict is some kind of diversionary trick the press is playing, because these conflicts between Palestine and Israel are somewhat common. And the conspiracy theory sites(most of them anti-USA&anti-Israel)are having a field day! I mean, Good God! :eek:

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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by miditek » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:14 am

JensJohansson wrote:ObGodwinAttempt:

Image
Hilarious- and not too far from the truth, although I'd consider Bill Gates to be part Carl Sagan and part General Patton (at least in the corporate sense)! =)

Here's an entertaining clip on youtube of that prepubescent Uncle Adolf himself, in-

" 'Lil Hitler "
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KDRa9I-NwDY
JensJohansson wrote:Seriously though, I doubt we can solve this here. I don't mean by that that you shouldn't talk about it here of course. Talk about whatever you want :lol:

Not terribly relevant to this discussion, but re history lessons, I'm currently reading this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag:_A_History

American writer, knows a hell of a lot about recent Russian (Soviet) history. An amazing book in its restraint somehow, because the subject is quite emotional to a lot of people here. Lenin and Stalin killed a lot more Soviet citizens than Hitler did German citizens.


Of course, the Communists were in power for far longer than 'Lil Hitler was, although they did sort of implode there at the end.


JensJohansson wrote:FWIW I'm Swedish and don't think any of my relatives were harmed in the two last world wars. Sweden managed to stay out of both though. Perhaps by having had enough of that kind of "fun" in previous centuries..

That the Swedes were able to avoid two world wars is, imho, a real blessing- more than many people may realize.

Here is a link to Solzhenitsyn's famous speech at Harvard- it was 30 years ago, and really ahead of its time. He was truly a modern-day Jeremiah!

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/ar ... d1978.html
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by icecab21 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:10 am

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/202.html

This article is an interesting read. It’s not scholarly, but I’m not sure how much scholarly stuff there is out there.

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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Shurik » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:00 pm

Lenin and Stalin killed a lot more Soviet citizens than Hitler did German citizens.

Code: Select all

Lenin and Stalin probably killed more soviet citizens than Hitler did, which shows that communism (or at least the soviet variety of it) and nazism are not that different when it comes to killing people.
[/quote]
[quote]FWIW I'm Swedish and don't think any of my relatives were harmed in the two last world wars. Sweden managed to stay out of both though. Perhaps by having had enough of that kind of "fun" in previous centuries..[/quote]
If I remember correctly, Sweden wasn't part of any major military campain since something like 18th century. I guess getting your asses kicked by Peter The Great was enough :) BTW, until today one of the sayings in Russian that are used to describe an extremely heavy defeat is "was beaten like Swedes near Poltava".
[quote]Or does this sympathy simply stem from hatred of USA&Israel? Is that what its REALLY all about?[/quote]
More or less. have you ever seen such a wave of protests inspired by the situation in Sudan, for example?
[quote]Here's an entertaining clip on youtube of that prepubescent Uncle Adolf himself, in-

" 'Lil Hitler "
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KDRa9I-NwDY[/quote]
This is the clip from an insanely hilarious show called Robot Chicken. It's a sketch show with 10-minutes episodes consisted of sketches varying from putting a familiar characters from comics, movies, history etc in all sorts of bizarre situations to just random stuff. Highly recommended.
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Re: At last..IDF finally responds

Post by Bathory Killcraft » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:52 pm

Shurik wrote:
Or does this sympathy simply stem from hatred of USA&Israel? Is that what its REALLY all about?
More or less. have you ever seen such a wave of protests inspired by the situation in Sudan, for example?
So you say the whole world is anti-american and anti-semitic basically here. I would be deeply concerned, uneasy and wondering why the hell this is the case then, if I was you...
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