Copenhagen's Consolation Prize

[AGAG]

miditek believes the Armageddon's near, so in a way it's logical for him not to care.

Actually, the War of Gog and Magog has to happen before Armageddon can occur. And that is a very real possibilty for the not too distant future.

But, doesnt The Rapture supposedly happen before all that and take the true Christians away before that happens?

DAMN! GOD FORGOT AGAIN!!! WE'RE SCREWED!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

[NeonVomit]

1) Potentially, it could be huge.
2) The whole of the Mediterranean region is suffering some pretty bad droughts. Is that linked to it? Might it get worse? Maybe.
3) Some say it is already affecting us, by creating more unstable weather patterns, see above.
4) Tricky one to answer. But again, polluting less, using less energy and generally being cleaner surely isn't a bad thing is it? It can't cause any harm, and could potentially save us all a lot of trouble.

"Potentially", "Maybe", "It can't cause any harm".
That's just my point- the impending environmental cataclysm is highly exaggerated and based on speculation. Besides that, I have no problem with researching alternative energy, we just have to keep things in perspective. To be honest i'm not exactly sure what we're arguing about- I guess you want to be a little more proactive about conservation than me. No problems there.

Fair enough

I guess it can be compared to maintaining a healthy diet and not smoking. Some people will get cancer regardless, and on the other hand we all know that 87-year old grumpy guy on our street who's smoked a pack a day for the last 60 years and is stubbornly refusing to die...

Really? All of them? No facts? Just like CFC ozone depletion wasn't based on facts and was only fear and guilt?

I don't really know much about that. O-zone sounds like the name of a techno band, to me. In fact, aren't they the ones that made that annoying "numa-numa" song!? If so, then I'm glad they're being depleted

Have a readthrough of this. The ozone layer is pretty important to our continued existence... and to my knowledge it had little to do with the numa-numa song

[AAAAAAAAAA]

Thank you Neonvomit! I will take a look. You are good young boy! :jump:

[miditek]

miditek believes the Armageddon's near, so in a way it's logical for him not to care.

Actually, the War of Gog and Magog has to happen before Armageddon can occur. And that is a very real possibilty for the not too distant future.

But, doesnt The Rapture supposedly happen before all that and take the true Christians away before that happens?

A classic theological question, and one that is widely debated. Authors Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye (of the Left Behind series) are definitely what I call pretribulationists, or those that believe that the Rapture of the Church occurs before the Abomination of Desolation and the Seven Year Tribulation- events that lead up to Armageddon.

Others, such as Christian Holocaust survivor and author Corrie Ten Boom (who, along with her family, was imprisoned by the Gestapo for hiding Jews) rejects the pretribulation theories in favor of the postribulation theories, which means the rapture will occur after the aforementioned events.

The War of Gog and Magog most likely will occur before the Battle of Armageddon, since after all, Armageddon is the final battle that occurs in history, and indeed, as the Bible said, "no one would survive", unless Christ Himself were to return at that moment.

[browneyedgirl]

miditek believes the Armageddon's near, so in a way it's logical for him not to care.

Actually, the War of Gog and Magog has to happen before Armageddon can occur. And that is a very real possibilty for the not too distant future.

But, doesnt The Rapture supposedly happen before all that and take the true Christians away before that happens?

A classic theological question, and one that is widely debated. Authors Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye (of the Left Behind series) are definitely what I call pretribulationists, or those that believe that the Rapture of the Church occurs before the Abomination of Desolation and the Seven Year Tribulation- events that lead up to Armageddon.

Others, such as Christian Holocaust survivor and author Corrie Ten Boom (who, along with her family, was imprisoned by the Gestapo for hiding Jews) rejects the pretribulation theories in favor of the postribulation theories, which means the rapture will occur after the aforementioned events.

Personally, I do not believe in the Rapture, either. God has never taken his children away from a fight.
But, those Left Behind movies are food for thought, and kinda gives me the creeps, especially when the AntiChrist(played by Gordon Currie)walks through the fire totally untouched after a shattering explosion. Dramatic CGI of course, but it makes ya wonder about things.

[miditek]

miditek believes the Armageddon's near, so in a way it's logical for him not to care.

Actually, the War of Gog and Magog has to happen before Armageddon can occur. And that is a very real possibilty for the not too distant future.

But, doesnt The Rapture supposedly happen before all that and take the true Christians away before that happens?

A classic theological question, and one that is widely debated. Authors Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye (of the Left Behind series) are definitely what I call pretribulationists, or those that believe that the Rapture of the Church occurs before the Abomination of Desolation and the Seven Year Tribulation- events that lead up to Armageddon.

Others, such as Christian Holocaust survivor and author Corrie Ten Boom (who, along with her family, was imprisoned by the Gestapo for hiding Jews) rejects the pretribulation theories in favor of the postribulation theories, which means the rapture will occur after the aforementioned events.

Personally, I do not believe in the Rapture, either. God has never taken his children away from a fight.
But, those Left Behind movies are food for thought, and kinda gives me the creeps, especially when the AntiChrist(played by Gordon Currie)walks through the fire totally untouched after a shattering explosion. Dramatic CGI of course, but it makes ya wonder about things.

Well, the Bible does have some references to what we call the Rapture;


Luke 17:26-36 Jesus describes the sign of the times

(26) "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. (27) People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all."

[28] "It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. (29) But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all."

(30) "It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. (31) "On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. (32) Remember Lot's wife! (33) Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Note: What I believe that Jesus means by trying to keep one's life is that those that cling to society and all it's trappings, rather than heeding God's warnings are doomed.

(34) I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. (35) Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left."

(36) "Where, Lord?" they asked. He replied, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

So the question that the believers are asking Jesus in this passage is not when, but where.

Currie was spooky as Nicolae Carpathia, but so was Michael York in "The Omega Code" and Megiddo, the latter of which's battle scenes were, ironically enough, filmed at Megiddo- in the Jezreel Valley in Israel.

"And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." - Revelation 16:16

A View of Megiddo, at Jezreel, in Israel


York's character, Stone Alexander, is in his HQ at Megiddo, which takes a direct hit by a either a tank shell or a missile, which kills all of his close military aides, and yet he emerges from the rubble unscathed.

[NeverendingAbyss]

Climate conference ends in discord

By Fiona Harvey, Ed Crooks and Andrew Ward in Copenhagen

Published: December 18 2009 21:06 | Last updated: December 19 2009 13:34

The Copenhagen climate conference ended on Saturday without unanimous agreement as the world’s biggest economies backed a limited accord that leaders said would form the basis for a future deal to tackle global warming.

Ban Ki-moon, UN secretary-general, acknowledged that the outcome was “not everything we hoped for” but described it as an “essential beginning” as he brought a close to two weeks of fractious negotiations in the Danish capital.
EDITOR’S CHOICE
In depth: Copenhagen - Dec-16
Full text: Copenhagen accord - Dec-19
Text: Obama’s statement on deal - Dec-19
Energy Source: the deal: a disappointment or a relief? - Dec-18
Responses to Copenhagen ... - Dec-19
UN appeals for Copenhagen climate deal - Dec-18

Talks had continued through Friday night into Saturday morning in a bid to reach consensus on a tentative agreement struck between the US, China and other big emerging economies on cuts in greenhouse gas emissions and financing to help developing countries cope with climate change.

But several developing countries, led by Venezuela and Bolivia, refused to endorse the deal, ensuring that the conference would end without an official agreement. Instead, all 193 countries agreed to “take note of the Copenhagen Accord” without committing to accept it.

European Union leaders gave a tepid endorsement to the accord, which they described as the first of “many more steps” needed to curb rising temperatures, but made clear their deep disappointment over the weakness of the commitments and their non-binding nature.

Climate experts’ forum

The Copenhagen agreement: a disappointment or a relief? Have your say

Mr Ban said work must now start to forge broader consensus behind a concrete deal. “We must transform this into a legally binding treaty next year,” he said. “The importance will only be recognised when it’s codified into international law.”

Hopes of a deal had risen on Friday evening when President Barack Obama hailed a “meaningful agreement” after intensive talks with leaders of China, Brazil, India and South Africa appeared to have broken the deadlock between rich nations and the developing world.

But the EU said the US declaration was premature and negotiations dragged on for several more hours after Mr Obama left Copenhagen until EU leaders eventually announced their reluctant backing for the deal at 2am.

Mr Obama acknowledged that the deal was “not sufficient to combat the threat of climate change but [was] an important first step” on cutting greenhouse gases.

“We have made a meaningful and unprecedented breakthrough. For the first time in history, all of the major economies have come together to take action [on global warming],” he said after meetings with Wen Jiabao, the Chinese premier, Manmohan Singh, the Indian prime minister, President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva of Brazil and Jacob Zuma, the South African president.

The extent of China’s backing for the accord is still unclear, however. Mr Obama said on Friday night that he had reached agreement with Mr Wen on Beijing backing the accord. But on Saturday morning China’s representative insisted the accord was neither adopted nor endorsed as a formal decision at the meeting.

José Manuel Barroso, the European Commission president, said the outcome fell “far short of our expectations”, adding: “Our level of ambition has not been matched.”

Several countries, including Sudan, which heads the G77 group of developing nations, voiced outright opposition, raising doubts over whether a deal struck by an elite group of big industrialised and emerging economies could secure the broad international support needed to turn it into a binding treaty to replace the 1997 Kyoto protocol.

Mr Obama acknowledged that further talks were needed but voiced confidence that the Copenhagen accord would form the basis for a lasting deal.

“What we have achieved in Copenhagen will not be the end but the beginning of a new era of international action,” he said. “This is going to be hard. It’s hard within countries, and it’s going to be even harder between countries.”

The agreement contained a commitment to try to hold global warming to no more than 2 degrees Celsius, a level scientists have suggested is probably the limit of safety, beyond which climate change could become catastrophic and irreversible.

Rich countries have also included commitments to cut their emissions and developing countries to curb the growth of theirs. There were also promises to transfer money from rich to poor countries, to help them tackle climate change.

But Fredrik Reinfeldt, prime minister of Sweden, holder of the rotating EU presidency, warned that the accord was not sufficient to meet the 2°C target.

“This is not a perfect agreement,” he said. “It will not solve the climate threat.”

Lumumba Di-Aping, the Sudanese head of the G77, said the US-backed proposals represented the “lowest level of ambition” and would be devastating for the world’s poor.

“This is an idea not a deal,” he told reporters. “If any country rejects the deal, then there is no deal. Sudan will not be a signatory to a deal that destroys Africa.”

Venezuela described the accord as a “coup d’etat” by wealthy countries.

Sergio Serra, Brazil’s ambassador for climate change issues, described the result of the talks as “disappointing”. He added: “There is a big job ahead to avoid climate change through emissions reduction targets, and that was not done here.”

Mexico said it would embrace the Copenhagen accord when it takes over the presidency of the UN climate talks next year and hoped to agree a ”legally binding instrument” at the next conference , which it will host.

Felipe Calderón, Mexican president, acknowledged the proposals were ”far from what we expected and from what the world needs” and described it as ”the basis for a future agreement”.

One key sticking point to a deal was China’s refusal to allow international monitoring of its emissions. But in a last-minute compromise, Beijing and Washington agreed to a process of “international consultation and analysis”.

Mr Obama held two meetings with the Chinese premier to try to resolve the issues. The second meeting, which was also attended by the leaders of India, South Africa and Brazil, lasted for four hours, officials said.

Countries had been negotiating in the Danish capital for two weeks, hoping to forge a new settlement that would be the first to require developed and developing countries to take action on greenhouse gas emissions.

Brazilian representatives said negotiators in Copenhagen would continue their work over the weekend, and into next year in the hope of having a legally binding document that can be signed by the end of 2010 and then ratified by national parliaments before the end of 2012. That is the expiry date of the main provisions of the Kyoto protocol, the world’s only existing accord that binds countries to cut emissions, but only applies to the rich world.

Hugo Chávez, president of Venezuela, declared: “The meeting unfortunately has not been successful. It has failed...[Because] of the lack of political will by a group of countries led by the imperial government of the United States.”

He accused Denmark and its wealthy allies of “pulling a document from nowhere” that ignored the interests of developing countries.

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I love Hugo Chavez and his hysterical remark!