The Obama Thread: All Things Obama

[browneyedgirl]

yes, you got me, I'm definitely Irish.

If I were a Cypriot watching the pending implosion of Greece, then I'd probably lie and pass myself off as a Mick too.

Or learn how to speak Kraut.

Either way, you're complexion isn't quite pasty enough to pass as a Paddy, and too swarthy too pass for a Hun.

Maybe you could do better by brushing up on your French and masquerade as a Frog.

Either way, as you said earlier, you're fucked.

Do they even make a popcorn bowl that's remotely large enough for the next act?

I saw an a one-page thingy in a mag that Cyprus was indeed having financial problems, bad ones. But, half of Europe is melting down now which is not good for the rest of the world. It almost makes me cry. Seriously. I try not to worry so much about the future of this world, but sometimes it really bothers me.

[NeonVomit]

yes, you got me, I'm definitely Irish.

If I were a Cypriot watching the pending implosion of Greece, then I'd probably lie and pass myself off as a Mick too.

Or learn how to speak Kraut.

Either way, you're complexion isn't quite pasty enough to pass as a Paddy, and too swarthy too pass for a Hun.

Maybe you could do better by brushing up on your French and masquerade as a Frog.

Either way, as you said earlier, you're fucked.

Do they even make a popcorn bowl that's remotely large enough for the next act?

...woah, you really are a seriously damaged individual! Nice (if completely inaccurate) ad hominem as usual. Is grade-school racial abuse the only way you can articulate your ideas? I said we're ALL fucked, your little fantasy world included.

Since you love stereotypes, I assume you're so enraged at... whatever it is that enrages you due to inbreeding? Don't all people in southern states marry their cousins and drink applesauce through a straw while playing the banjo and carrying out sexual assaults on city dwellers? Shouldn't you be so fat you can't walk and be unable to point out Australia on a world map? Shall we really get into what Americans are stereotyped as? No, because it's inane, stupid and (should be) beneath people over the age of 12. What kind of Christian are you? I sort of remember this whole 'love everyone' theme running throughout when I was taken to church as a child, and it was one of the things I actually liked and have tried to maintain from that part of my upbringing. I may be an atheist but some parts of Christian morality still have a role in my life... parts that you don't seem to ever take into consideration or coveniantly overlook. Where did you lose those?

I really don't get you. You disagree with me, fine. It's hardly something I'll ever give a second thought to. But you insist on insulting me personally (and then my country, which is downright bizarre) when you run out of counter-arguments, which is somewhat perplexing and frankly a little worrying for people who live near you if you own firearms. I wonder what will send you over the edge into a shooting spree, sometimes. So much anger and hate!

You've never met me, you have no idea what I'm like, and yet you will always desperately try to show that you know more about things that I have intimate experience with (like the intricacies of daily life in London, or how the legal system here works) when you actually have no clue what you are talking about, driven by some sort of weird attention-seeking craving you have. If I don't think that the Western approach to the middle east is entirely correct, I'm really sorry but that does not make me either a terrorist or a Muslim. People who've met me can attest to that. You're going to have to do some re-evaluating on this point I'm afraid.

I don't get it, haven't you really got better things to do as someone in their 40's with a full time job? Sorry to get all existentialist here, but I post on this forum because Stratovarius are one of my favourite bands ever and there are cool people here who make me laugh with the occasional interesting discussion occurring; why do you post here? To constantly remind everyone how much you hate black people/muslims/socialists/Timo Tolkki/Europe? If that's the case then I really don't know what to say - I just think you're sort of missing the point (whatever it is) of this forum. This place might be more to your taste.

Don't you have any friends? Do you in your daily life refer to everyone as 'mick' 'nigger' 'wop' 'pollack' 'spic' 'dothead' 'paki' 'chink' etcetera while interacting face-to- face? I'm guessing not, because someone doing that will likely get beaten up or even arrested in some countries. I will thefore assume you don't do that. If that is the case, then why do you choose to do it to complete strangers on the internet with the sole justification in your mind being their disagreement with you on matters of politics and belief? I mean, as someone who finds all forms of racism abhorrent (except against S.S. Lazio fans, those guys can get fucked) it's not something I could find myself ever doing, but to each his own...

[miditek]

I saw an a one-page thingy in a mag that Cyprus was indeed having financial problems, bad ones. But, half of Europe is melting down now which is not good for the rest of the world. It almost makes me cry. Seriously. I try not to worry so much about the future of this world, but sometimes it really bothers me.

Cyprus isn't the only country that's in deep shit- I read a Bloomberg report about how foreign investors are now fleeing France since that half-Communist Hollande was elected president.

One more downgrade for Spain, and it will be shut out of the international bond markets altogether. Portugal is in trouble, and Ireland is as well. Apparently, the current consensus at the EU is that the Greeks should still be able to retire at 50, with 90% of their salary being paid as a pension by the state while the Germans should presumably work until 80 or beyond to pay for it.

Since you love stereotypes, I assume you're so enraged at... whatever it is that enrages you due to inbreeding?

Nice try, I'm Kraut on my father's side, and Oirish on my mother's.

Don't all people in southern states marry their cousins and drink applesauce through a straw while playing the banjo and carrying out sexual assaults on city dwellers?

You forgot the South's core competencies; a) Methamphetamine labs, b) Moonshine stills, and c) rather large pot fields

MuSS marry their cousins, and rape statistics in urban areas show that the city folk don't need any help from rednecks to keep their numbers up.

I may be an atheist but some parts of Christian morality still have a role in my life.

That reminds me- I really need to finish that letter to the Vatican to petition the Pope to canonize St. Vomit. Thanks for the reminder!

and frankly a little worrying for people who live near you if you own firearms. I wonder what will send you over the edge into a shooting spree, sometimes.

Just about everyone in my neighborhood is locked and loaded- unlike that Dhimmi enclave that you live in.

I carry a concealed handgun with me everywhere I go- but it's for personal protection, not "shooting sprees", and my permit is 100% legal and issued by the state in which I reside. Try finding an average EU bloc citizen that is allowed that right. Self-defense is the most basic of all human rights.

Do you in your daily life refer to everyone as 'mick' 'nigger' 'wop' 'pollack' 'spic' 'dothead' 'paki' 'chink' etcetera while interacting face-to- face?

I actually yelled at a Gook that almost rear-ended me while parked at a petrol station the other day, does that count?

[AAAAAAAAAA]

I actually yelled at a Gook that almost rear-ended me while parked at a petrol station the other day, does that count?

How dare you call it a petrol station??
This, I say, is appeasement.

Otherwise, carry on! :pop:

[NeonVomit]

The process has begun. Soon we'll have him spelling colour properly.

[browneyedgirl]

You forgot the South's core competencies; a) Methamphetamine labs, b) Moonshine stills, and c) rather large pot fields

Which is precisely why most of us Southern hicks ARE locked, and loaded.

[miditek]

You forgot the South's core competencies; a) Methamphetamine labs, b) Moonshine stills, and c) rather large pot fields

Which is precisely why most of us Southern hicks ARE locked, and loaded.

There is a Meth Task Force in our area that focuses on the labs, there's a task force for marijuana eradication, and of course the Feds have traditionally dealt with the stills via the ATF.

The biggest problem in our city at the moment is the prevalence of street gangs, and the cops appear to be more focused on gambling raids and DUI checkpoints than anything else.

I never really felt the need to have a carry permit until after the 2008 election, when gang violence began to skyrocket, so now I never leave home without a semi-automatic pistol, spare magazines (clips), a TAC light, and mobile phone- all attached to a concealed shoulder holster rig.

On a final note regarding St. Vomit's suggestion that I register at stormfront.org, here's a nice little piece of propaganda that ties in nicely to his and Obamao's comrades-in-arms in the Mediterranean:

GREEK COMMUNISTS: The road to a People's Greece

http://communist-party.org.uk/index.php ... Itemid=164

[browneyedgirl]

The new Greek prez is Conservative leaning, and the people are hoping he is going to be their savior who will pull them all out of economic ruin. I guess time will tell.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

[Stratowarius]

:nervous:

[NeonVomit]

The new Greek prez is Conservative leaning, and the people are hoping he is going to be their savior who will pull them all out of economic ruin. I guess time will tell.

As is always the case with Greece, it's not as simple as that.

The new Greek Prime Minister (the Greek Presidency is a largely ceremonial role, like the president of Israel or Italy) hasn't been confirmed yet; most likely it will be Antonis Samaras. His New Democracy party is conservative and pro-bailout - thankfully the Greek public have realised that voting for the neo-nazi racist thugs Golden Dawn won't make anything better and indeed make everything worse; most other people are fed up with the rampant corruption and staggering incompetence of the mainstream parties. Greek politics have largely been dominated by two parties for years now - the aforementioned centre-right New Democracy, and the centre-left PASOK. It is under the stewardship of these two parties that Greece has ended up in the utter catastrophe it now finds itself. (Also with a lot of help from Goldman Sachs, who helped cook Greece's books to enable it to enter the Euro.)

I mean, to give you an idea of how things have changed since the last election:



As one could reasonably guess, it's pretty natural that Greek voters will turn to the more radical parties, represented by people who haven't been involved in the cesspit of typical Greek politics or people who were peripheral members of the large parties, and have resigned in disgust. That probably explains the rise of the leftist Syriza party - it basically appeared out of nowhere in the last six months, made up mostly of former PASOK members who got sick of their own party pulling off the ridiculous shit that they were involved in. I mean, has anyone here actually tried to live on 600 euros a month (now the minimum wage) with prices as high as they are in other main European capitals? Of course people are angry, their political leaders have pissed away their future and you now have bright, ambitious school leavers with a lot of potential not being able to go to university and supply the next generation with doctors, engineers, lawyers and economists. The smartest ones are also leaving Greece - I personally know 3 spectacularly intelligent Greek trainee lawyers at Ince & Co, the number one shipping law firm in the UK, who left Greece because there was no real chance of a decent future there as things stand. It's heartbreaking to see a country with a glorious history streching back thousands of years reach this point.

Most media outlets in Greece with regards to the elections are somewhere between 'well, there isn't much else we can do' and 'holy shit, that was a close one', with a few of the more radical ones preaching that the total destruction of the Greek economy would be the best thing, as it would allow the country to build itself up again.

Of course, the most fascinating aspect of all this is that Greece, against all odds, has made it to the quarter-finals of the Euro 2012 football tournament, and will be facing hot favourites Germany, lead by the in-form Bastian Schweinsteiger.

Greece are well-accustomed to the underdog tag - in 2004 they were given 100/1 odds at the start of the championship...



Let's just say things didn't work out as people had expected, which is again always the case with Greece.

[NeonVomit]

On a final note regarding St. Vomit's suggestion that I register at stormfront.org, here's a nice little piece of propaganda that ties in nicely to his and Obamao's comrades-in-arms in the Mediterranean:

GREEK COMMUNISTS: The road to a People's Greece

http://communist-party.org.uk/index.php ... Itemid=164

How is that at all relevant to anything I've written or implied in any way imaginable?

[miditek]

How is that at all relevant to anything I've written or implied in any way imaginable?

Sie verlieren, Saftsack!

[browneyedgirl]

so now I never leave home without a semi-automatic pistol, spare magazines (clips), a TAC light, and mobile phone- all attached to a concealed shoulder holster rig.

If you still make house calls to fix computers I bet people really keep an eye on you!

[miditek]

so now I never leave home without a semi-automatic pistol, spare magazines (clips), a TAC light, and mobile phone- all attached to a concealed shoulder holster rig.

If you still make house calls to fix computers I bet people really keep an eye on you!

The only house calls I do is typically for corporate clients that need to work from home, although I generally do not carry a weapon into a client's place of business. The only exception is if the work is being performed after hours at a client's office, and if it is in a bad neighborhood.

[NeonVomit]

I like how some people in America are so surprised that a law created by Obama (who is, lest we forget, a former university lecturer in constitutional law) and passed by both houses of Congress is deemed constitutional by the Supreme Court.

The majority of Right-wing reaction is hilarious; especially Romney's because he basically did EXACTLY the same thing for Massechusetts when he was governor.

The best of all has to be this:

“Just because a couple people on the Supreme Court declare something to be ‘constitutional’ does not make it so. The whole thing remains unconstitutional. While the court may have erroneously come to the conclusion that the law is allowable, it certainly does nothing to make this mandate or government takeover of our health care right. ObamaCare is wrong for Americans. It will destroy our health care system. This now means we fight every hour, every day until November to elect a new President and a new Senate to repeal ObamaCare.

Yes, it's called a "majority opinion of the Supreme Court", you moron, and it most certainly does make something constitutional (or unconstitutional), at least until the law is either revised or repealed by Congress, or overturned by that same Court at a future date. Their job is not to decide if something is a good law or not - that's for elected officials to decide. The Supreme Court decides if the question asked of it is constitutional or not, nothing more, nothing less.

I guess now we'll start hearing the drum beat of "judicial activism" from the Right along with calls for judicial term limits, more elected judges, expanding the membership of the Court, supermajorities, and other nonsense that losers always harp about when things don't go their way. Had the mandate been struck down, we'd hear exactly the same load of horseshit from the Left, I guarantee it. The old adage of 'justice only for the winner' applies here I suppose.

This is essentially the equivalent of a five-year-old screaming 'it's not fair!!!' when their parents don't give them ice cream for dinner.

The best thing of all was that the swing vote was Chief Justice John Roberts', a Bush Jr appointee and a judicial conservative.

[miditek]

I like how some people in America are so surprised that a law created by Obama (who is, lest we forget, a former university lecturer in constitutional law) and passed by both houses of Congress is deemed constitutional by the Supreme Court.

I like how EUnuchs like yourself posses such an in depth knowledge of the healthcare industry in America. As far as diversity admission (to Harvard Law) Obungler's knowledge of constitutional law is concerned, I'd be grateful if you could cite one notable article that he published while teaching without resorting to Google.

The majority of Right-wing reaction is hilarious; especially Romney's because he basically did EXACTLY the same thing for Massechusetts when he was governor.

Nice spelling of Massachusetts, as you were too busy criticizing something that you know little or nothing about to run spell check. At least now you know that voters here have a choice between a turd and a shit sandwich.

Too bad you didn't notice California and Massachusetts have nearly bankrupted due to their state-level Medicare plans. It doesn't work at a state level, although you fantasize that the same scheme would work on a national level- just like it would in Italy, Greece, Cyprus, Spain, France, and other failing EUroPeon members.

The best of all has to be this:

“Just because a couple people on the Supreme Court declare something to be ‘constitutional’ does not make it so. The whole thing remains unconstitutional. While the court may have erroneously come to the conclusion that the law is allowable, it certainly does nothing to make this mandate or government takeover of our health care right. ObamaCare is wrong for Americans. It will destroy our health care system. This now means we fight every hour, every day until November to elect a new President and a new Senate to repeal ObamaCare.

Yes, it's called a "majority opinion of the Supreme Court", you moron, and it most certainly does make something constitutional (or unconstitutional), at least until the law is either revised or repealed by Congress, or overturned by that same Court at a future date. Their job is not to decide if something is a good law or not - that's for elected officials to decide. The Supreme Court decides if the question asked of it is constitutional or not, nothing more, nothing less.

Really?

So the Founding Fathers would have agreed with Former Speaker Nancy "we'll have to pass the law to see what's in it" Pelosi's ramrod attempt at passage? 1/6 of the economy being nationalized without the House and the Senate being forced to read what they were actually passing?

If it's so goddamn good for the country, then explain the exemptions for the employees of all three branches of the government, labor unions, as well as many other corporate exemptions.

Explain how a 2,000+ page law that no one has read will prove longtime economic principles wrong by magically increasing the supply while mysteriously decreasing the costs while demand is at an all-time high and the economy is still in the sewer.

I guess now we'll start hearing the drum beat of "judicial activism" from the Right along with calls for judicial term limits, more elected judges, expanding the membership of the Court, supermajorities, and other nonsense that losers always harp about when things don't go their way. Had the mandate been struck down, we'd hear exactly the same load of horseshit from the Left, I guarantee it. The old adage of 'justice only for the winner' applies here I suppose.

The only drumbeat that I'm hearing is your harebrained analysis of something you do not understand at all. If you're not aware the economic implications of this law, HIPPA, and HIPPA 5010, then please excuse yourself and visit the nearest emergency room for the self-inflicted gunshot wound to your foot.

This is essentially the equivalent of a five-year-old screaming 'it's not fair!!!' when their parents don't give them ice cream for dinner.

Or twenty million illegals dragging kids with runny noses or fever to the emergency room (for 'free') rather than forking over $100 or so at the pediatrician's office. Or welfare queens hatching child after child (by different fathers) to get a bigger check and then presenting the taxpayer with the bill. Don't forget the food stamps- them babies has just gots to have they purple drank an' Skittles, yo.

The best thing of all was that the swing vote was Chief Justice John Roberts', a Bush Jr appointee and a judicial conservative.

Zzzzzzzz......

[browneyedgirl]

This is essentially the equivalent of a five-year-old screaming 'it's not fair!!!' when their parents don't give them ice cream for dinner.

The best thing of all was that the swing vote was Chief Justice John Roberts', a Bush Jr appointee and a judicial conservative.

+10

It's all about the insurance companies and how most of them are run by con-servatives.

This country NEEDS health care for the poor, and I'm not talking Medicaid, I'm talking about some kind of plan where the poor can get health care they need and not just sent home to die. Sure, legally hospitals have to give everyone medical care, but at what cost? The person winding up homeless after they pay a ridiculously high hospital bill? That's why many poor people don't seek needed medical care 'til it's too late. If you get care and wind up homeless, and penniless what's the goddamn point?

Oh, and you can bet Justice Roberts has got a target on his head right now. Don't be surprised if that 'bro gets a bullet in the head, or gets ousted before this year is up. He just may have an accident like John Kennedy, Jr.

[NeonVomit]

I completely missed the point on purpose

I wasn't talking about anything to do with the US healthcare system itself - I've never used it and therefore have no comment to make on how effective it is or not, or how it will change.

Unlike you, I don't pretend to be an expert on things I haven't the faintest idea about. If you constantly critisize everything European despite never having even set foot in a European country and displaying your astonishing ignorance at every turn while at the same time thinking that you know everything there is to know "because I've read stuff! and I know people who used to live there!", I don't see why I can't comment on a US court's decision. Thinking you know everything is the clearest sign of ignorance.

I was commenting on the court's decision - which is again not an opinion on whether or not the law itself is good or not, but merely if it's constitutional. It's not the court's job to decide if a law is 'good' or not, that's for elected officials. John Roberts himself says that on about twelve different occasions in his judgement.

My whole point is how stupid the reaction is of people complaining about how a government branch doing its job properly is never 'fair' unless it goes their way. What the founding fathers would have thought is irrelevant. They've all been dead for centuries. What is relevant is what the court decided. As I said, had the decision gone the other way, you'd hear exactly the same load of crap from everyone on the Left and I'd probably be making a post similar to this one.

The 2000 page law is there for people to read. If members of Congress or the Senate actually vote on laws without reading them, then it's their own fault and probably not a good idea to vote for them in the first place. Oh no, the poor things are going to actually have to read and understand a complex piece of legislation before voting on it! Nobody in the legislative branch of government should ever be expected to do that! I mean, I read the court's 193-page decision and it didn't take me that long. And it's not even my job to do things like that, I was just curious.

And as for poor, misspelt MA, I haven't installed spellcheck on this browser and I was only like, a couple of letters off. You have to admit, I do pretty well without it.

[bockrocker]

Fareed Zakaria argued on Real Time that following decisions like Bush v. Gore and Citizens United, the Supreme court has achieved record low approval ratings and Justice Roberts chose in favor of ACA in order to attempt to recoup some legitimacy for the Supreme Court before they rule on things like gay marriage and affirmative action in the near future.

[miditek]

I completely missed the point on purpose

I wasn't talking about anything to do with the US healthcare system itself - I've never used it and therefore have no comment to make on how effective it is or not, or how it will change.

I see that I made you cry,....again. And let's not try to hide behind your lack of experience with the U.S. health care system, which is beside the point. You deserved a good bitch slap when you crowed about Obungler being a 'former university lecturer on constitutional law'.

Consider, your law professor is the same imbecile that:

- Wanted to campaign in all 57 states

(So he flunked grammar school geography, big deal!)

- Recently said that the private sector economy is "doing fine".

(So he flunked undergraduate level economics, big deal!)

- Recently claimed twelve tornado related deaths in Kansas were actually "ten thousand", and entire town was destroyed".

(So he flunked grammar school math, or the assistant at the teleprompter failed the same courses.)

Your constitutional law professor was admitted to Harvard Law because he was a minority, and for no other reason than that. He was simply a mascot of the guilt-ridden, white liberal fools that made up the Board of Regents at the time.

Unlike you, I don't pretend to be an expert on things I haven't the faintest idea about. If you constantly critisize everything European despite never having even set foot in a European country and displaying your astonishing ignorance at every turn while at the same time thinking that you know everything there is to know "because I've read stuff! and I know people who used to live there!", I don't see why I can't comment on a US court's decision. Thinking you know everything is the clearest sign of ignorance.

After you grab your box of Kotex, please don't forget to paste a link to the comments where I've claimed to have a PhD in Eurotard studies. Just because you claim to think that I know everything does not mean that I have that mindset. It's simply more of your bullshit. You bitch about North Korea all the time, but I doubt that you've ever set foot in Pyongyang. So based on your logic, a visit to a country is required to actually comment on it, which proves nothing more than the fact you're a goddamn hypocritical little Communist heathen.

I was commenting on the court's decision - which is again not an opinion on whether or not the law itself is good or not, but merely if it's constitutional. It's not the court's job to decide if a law is 'good' or not, that's for elected officials. John Roberts himself says that on about twelve different occasions in his judgement.

I get it. I got it in civics class in school years ago, and will still get it regardless of how many times that you or Roberts repeat it- ad nauseum. And I believe that the court is wrong on this, that is my opinion, and I believe the court has no business ruling on a law that requires a U.S. citizen to purchase anything from a publicly or privately held corporation. Period.

My whole point is how stupid the reaction is of people complaining about how a government branch doing its job properly is never 'fair' unless it goes their way.

We have free speech in America, unlike many countries (such as France) of the EU- where those that dare to speak against sacred cows can face prison terms.

What the founding fathers would have thought is irrelevant.

What the Founding Fathers 'thought' is well-documented in the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Federalist Papers, the Declaration of Independence, and many other important works. That is the stupidest remark that you've made here to date.

They've all been dead for centuries.

Greece has been a "dead" country for well over a millennia, and quite possibly much longer than that, and not to mention a major financial burden on it's EU neighbors.

What is relevant is what the court decided. As I said, had the decision gone the other way, you'd hear exactly the same load of crap from everyone on the Left and I'd probably be making a post similar to this one.

Doubtlessly, you would. And it would still be filled with your trademark hypocritical bullshit.

The 2000 page law is there for people to read. If members of Congress or the Senate actually vote on laws without reading them, then it's their own fault and probably not a good idea to vote for them in the first place.

That's the first sensible thing that you've said all day, but in no way excuses the Congress from shirking its legislative duties.

Oh no, the poor things are going to actually have to read and understand a complex piece of legislation before voting on it! Nobody in the legislative branch of government should ever be expected to do that! I mean, I read the court's 193-page decision and it didn't take me that long. And it's not even my job to do things like that, I was just curious.

That's fine with me, and a 193 page opinion to describe why a 2,000 page law is constitutional or not makes me even more distrustful of both the legislative and judicial branches of the government.

And as for poor, misspelt MA, I haven't installed spellcheck on this browser and I was only like, a couple of letters off. You have to admit, I do pretty well without it.

A-men, to that.

[brought2ubyletterC]

I just think the problem with healthcare not working in this country like it does in the European countries is that we're bigger in population compared to most of those other countries.

OK, to give an example that has NOTHING to do with healthcare...in the U.S., to get gold album status, you have to sell 500,000 albums. In a country like Finland, I think it's something like 30,000 or 50,000. Because it's a much smaller country. So universal health care is easier when there are less people to take care of.

Also, Americans are very spoiled---many of them cannot discern "wants" from "needs". If you were to ask a typical spoiled American kid what his "needs" are, they would not say "food, clothing and shelter", they would say "I need a new laptop, the latest iPhone, and a new car". Hell, most *adults* would probably say this too!

So what constitutes basic health care in most other countries, most Americans here would complain because it's not "good enough". Most Americans don't want basics; they want the fanciest version of whatever is offered to them or they don't want it at all. This is why universal health care doesn't work in this country.

Personally, I wish we had a system where everyone could have affordable health care, where their basic needs are met and there is not a lot of red-tape when someone needs a serious medical procedure. But sadly, I think at least in the case of this country, the medical insurance industry was implemented in order to give people jobs who are too uneducated or stupid to work at a real job. The same people that McDonald's would never hire because these idiots cannot be trusted to know how to open a microwave door when the dinger goes off.

I say this from experience in dealing with these morons, and I think it's wrong that people who have never set foot in a hospital or have no medical training whatsoever have more authority to decide what is to be done with a patient's health than the doctors themselves, the people who are working with the patient and know the symptoms. People who have never probably even been to college or even graduated high school, having more power over doctors who studied for years and years and know their craft.

If anyone reading this works in the medical insurance industry, I'm sorry if you are offended. But maybe next time you and your colleagues are all at the water cooler discussing how to spend those paychecks you don't really earn, maybe you should have a discussion instead about whether or not you feel morally wrong, knowing that you make a living off essentially ruining the lives of sick people? How many of you really feel comfortable in knowing that your cush lifestyle is provided by the suffering of someone else? Or does your wide-screen TV with surround sond drown out all the guilt?

[AGAG]

How many squiggles can a man fit into one of these squares?

[NeonVomit]

I still make no sense and I bring up irrelevant nonsense to hide the fact that I don't know anything

Sigh... you and your ad hominems. You really have problems, don't you?

I read a lot about North Korea and I make fun of the regime there. It's a strange fascination I've had for a while now... something like a weird hobby, shall we say. If there was a North Korean here telling me things weren't like that, I'd probably re-evaluate things, but it seems like most people who would say that are either dead or in concentration camps...

Your problem is you will say something, someone actually living here will contradict it, and you will still insist you're correct. I know people who used to live there! as if that's supposed to convince anyone ACTUALLY living here, RIGHT NOW. Want an example? Look at the whole London riots situation, you were railing on about how immigration was the root cause of the riots, when anyone actually living here would know immigration had absolutely nothing to do with the situation whatsoever and whoever thinks that is a clueless moron. And yet you kept insisting you were correct, and then ended up calling me a terrorist/muslim/whatever as usual because you ran out of things to say. Read through that thread, that's just one example of you refusing to accept anyone else's far better-informed views because of some pathological need to always think you're right.

I fail to see what Greece has to do with any of this, in any way possibly imaginable by a normal, sane person. What is wrong with you?

What would the founding fathers say about stem cell research, or intellectual property disputes, or internet regulation? How about their opinion on sub-prime mortgages? Do you see my point here? That all of this stuff is way beyond anything they could've forseen? You might as well ask a 8 year old who says they want to be a doctor about the best treatment for a specific cardiovascular disease. They won't have a clue what you're talking about. What they've left behind are those documents you mention, and the Supreme Court's job is to rule according to them. That's their entire purpose! That's why they were put there in the first place! So yes, what they would've thought is irrelevant, as they lived in a time when the height of healthcare was putting leeches on people, and the financial system involved keeping gold coins under your bed. This is the 21st century, and probably a good idea to live according to the realities of today. I mean, to illustrate my point, there are some other people who try to live exactly as someone centuries ago said they should... and the results aren't exactly a shining beacon of civilization.

The hilarious part of all this is you call me a hypocrite! How am I hypocritical? Are you insane?

And if laws and judgements need a lot of pages, well that's unfortunate... writing it in crayon on a side of A4 won't exactly cover the necessary details. If you distrust something with a lot of pages that's difficult to make sense of, why do you trust the bible then?

You have a problem with the court okaying a law you don't like? You're still miss the entire point! Would you distrust the judicial branch of government if it ruled in the way you liked? Probably not.

[NeonVomit]

I just think the problem with healthcare not working in this country like it does in the European countries is that we're bigger in population compared to most of those other countries.

OK, to give an example that has NOTHING to do with healthcare...in the U.S., to get gold album status, you have to sell 500,000 albums. In a country like Finland, I think it's something like 30,000 or 50,000. Because it's a much smaller country. So universal health care is easier when there are less people to take care of.

Yeah, that makes sense. It's less of a logistical nightmare, I imagine. Who would've thought trying to arrange this for a geographically vast country with a population of 320 million people would be complicated

Also, Americans are very spoiled---many of them cannot discern "wants" from "needs". If you were to ask a typical spoiled American kid what his "needs" are, they would not say "food, clothing and shelter", they would say "I need a new laptop, the latest iPhone, and a new car". Hell, most *adults* would probably say this too!

So what constitutes basic health care in most other countries, most Americans here would complain because it's not "good enough". Most Americans don't want basics; they want the fanciest version of whatever is offered to them or they don't want it at all. This is why universal health care doesn't work in this country.

Personally, I wish we had a system where everyone could have affordable health care, where their basic needs are met and there is not a lot of red-tape when someone needs a serious medical procedure. But sadly, I think at least in the case of this country, the medical insurance industry was implemented in order to give people jobs who are too uneducated or stupid to work at a real job. The same people that McDonald's would never hire because these idiots cannot be trusted to know how to open a microwave door when the dinger goes off.

I say this from experience in dealing with these morons, and I think it's wrong that people who have never set foot in a hospital or have no medical training whatsoever have more authority to decide what is to be done with a patient's health than the doctors themselves, the people who are working with the patient and know the symptoms. People who have never probably even been to college or even graduated high school, having more power over doctors who studied for years and years and know their craft.

It's really that bad? I mean... here the system isn't exactly great, but it works most of the time and even if you're poor you do get looked after. Private healthcare is available to those who want it, but it's nice to know there's a safety net if you need it. Then again, it's a pretty massive, cumbersome and inefficient body, and the UK is only 1/5 the population of the US in about 1/20th of the space...

I suppose it's natural for people in developed countries to want the best. But in life-or-death situations, the best is the only thing that's good enough, right? Of course, we in our nice air-conditioned houses with whatever food we could dream of available at a fraction of what we earn only a short car drive away are used to thinking anything should be made freely available to us. A person in Uganda will more likely simply put up with a minor health problem and deal with it, whereas we'll go running to the doctor with anything. I mean, okay, we have a better capacity to deal with stuff like that in developed countries, but still...

Do you really believe the medical insurance industry is what stands in the way of free universal healthcare?

If anyone reading this works in the medical insurance industry, I'm sorry if you are offended. But maybe next time you and your colleagues are all at the water cooler discussing how to spend those paychecks you don't really earn, maybe you should have a discussion instead about whether or not you feel morally wrong, knowing that you make a living off essentially ruining the lives of sick people? How many of you really feel comfortable in knowing that your cush lifestyle is provided by the suffering of someone else? Or does your wide-screen TV with surround sond drown out all the guilt?

I know the insurance industry is pretty sleazy by nature... I mean, if your purpose is to give money to people when they need it, and you're going to be the sole judge of 'when they need it', you're probably not going to give much money away. It's logical, right? But I guess it's different when people actually die over greed.

I didn't know it was that bad... how come it's taken this long to try and change it?

[NeonVomit]

How many squiggles can a man fit into one of these squares?

You raise a good point. The breakdown is that miditek is projecting his mental issues onto other people. I'll keep it simple from now on, because it's tedious for even me to read, let alone the rest of you guys.

Except AAAAAAAAAA. I know you love this shit.

[browneyedgirl]

If anyone reading this works in the medical insurance industry, I'm sorry if you are offended. But maybe next time you and your colleagues are all at the water cooler discussing how to spend those paychecks you don't really earn, maybe you should have a discussion instead about whether or not you feel morally wrong, knowing that you make a living off essentially ruining the lives of sick people? How many of you really feel comfortable in knowing that your cush lifestyle is provided by the suffering of someone else? Or does your wide-screen TV with surround sond drown out all the guilt?

+10 wonderful post, C!

I doubt if a couple of tylenol given to a patient with a headache costs $200 but thats is what is reported on bills.
I know a lady who had an accident which required a few stitches, and a 10-minute ER stay and her bill was $2,000, and that did not include the doc who did the 2-minute stitch job.
Then people have the gall to wonder why people are so pissed at the medical industry.
My Dad spent a day in the hospital before he died with a massive coronary, and thank God he was on full coverage Medicare. My Mom refused to look at the statements which showed the charges. I'm sure THAT would have given her a heart attack--the sheer figures alone.

[NeonVomit]

If anyone reading this works in the medical insurance industry, I'm sorry if you are offended. But maybe next time you and your colleagues are all at the water cooler discussing how to spend those paychecks you don't really earn, maybe you should have a discussion instead about whether or not you feel morally wrong, knowing that you make a living off essentially ruining the lives of sick people? How many of you really feel comfortable in knowing that your cush lifestyle is provided by the suffering of someone else? Or does your wide-screen TV with surround sond drown out all the guilt?

+10 wonderful post, C!

I doubt if a couple of tylenol given to a patient with a headache costs $200 but thats is what is reported on bills.

Are you exaggerating or is that actually true? If it's true, then that's just insane. Even if I went to a private GP here, I'd get charged £40 for a diagnosis for that sort of thing, absolute tops.

I have a lot of questions to ask about the situation over there...

I know a lady who had an accident which required a few stitches, and a 10-minute ER stay and her bill was $2,000, and that did not include the doc who did the 2-minute stitch job.

Ok, this is just stupid. I'll tell you a short story about myself here. I'm not bringing the National Health Service into it. I had a hernia operation done in September privately here because I didn't want to wait 4 months for the NHS to do it. The actual operation including the anesthetist's fee - the person who put me under general anesthetic (£200) and the surgeon's fee (i.e. the guy who actually cut me open, rummaged around with my intestines and sewed me back up (£310) cost a total of £510. I don't know what the exchange rates are right now and I'm too lazy to open up UCC, but that's around $1,000, right? Fine, add in another $300~ for the inevitable administration fees and whatnot that they tagged on. $1,300 for a full-blown operation. This was done privately, at the London Bridge Hospital, which is seen as one of the best private hospitals in London. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the quality of care I recieved was essentially on par with what I could get in the US.

If a private operation here costs that much, then what on earth is the possible justification for charging that much for a brief ER visit over there? The equivalent at a private hospital here would be around a quarter of that. This is making my head spin.

This is one thing I've heard about but doesn't make sense... if someone is, say, in a car accident or something... they're taken to hospital and given life-saving treatment, correct? Will the hospital actually take time to check if they a) have insurance and b) if not, are able to pay before they treat them? How does this all work? I mean, over here, emergency treatment is given without any sort of question or costs.

Here's a scenario that I need an answer to. Let's say it's some Mexican dude who snuck over the border to pick oranges in California, and then gets hit by a car because he doesn't understand the concept of traffic laws (which, if Mexico is anything like Colombia, don't really exist in his homeland anyway). The driver of the car does the instinctive and humane thing and calls an ambulance. Ambulance takes Mexican dude to the hospital. The doctors will probably figure out quite quickly that this guy is an illegal immigrant, but are bound by professional duty to treat him to the best of their ability. Not treating him will probably result in them losing their jobs, and let's face it, if a doctor refuses to treat someone who is in danger of losing their life due to money, they don't deserve to be called doctors. So Mexican dude lives, thanks to the doctors' treatment.

Where does the bill go to? Who pays it? Mexican dude probably doesn't even understand what the hell is going on (unless there's Latino staff at the hospital who explain to him), never mind be in a position to pay thousands of $ for hospital treatment. Does the hospital just write it off? They can't exactly send him an invoice for it, because his address is probably 'cardboard box in San Diego', or something.

If the government picks up the tab, then why not do it for your own citizens?

Then people have the gall to wonder why people are so pissed at the medical industry.
My Dad spent a day in the hospital before he died with a massive coronary, and thank God he was on full coverage Medicare. My Mom refused to look at the statements which showed the charges. I'm sure THAT would have given her a heart attack--the sheer figures alone.

See, when my grandfather had his collapse, he was taken straight to the general hospital, who looked after him for a couple of weeks until he passed away. They really did all they could, but he was 84 years old and, well, I guess it was his time to go. We never got asked to pay a thing. It's good to know that you guys have healthcare for the elderly, but if that exists then why not for the general population who tend to get sick a lot less often? I've gotten the jist of what Obama is trying to do but it does seem unnecessarily complex and roundabout - instead of making people buy health insurance, why not just provide the healthcare and cut out the people who are driving up costs anyway, i.e. the insurance companies?

Edit: holy shit, insurance companies could actually refuse to cover people purely because of preexisting medical conditions???!? That's fucking horrible!! What fault is it of the person's if they've got something like diabetes? (I mean genetically-influenced diabetes, not I-eat-crap-all-day-every-day-and-got-fat diabetes).

[browneyedgirl]

Ok, this is just stupid. I'll tell you a short story about myself here. I'm not bringing the National Health Service into it. I had a hernia operation done in September privately here because I didn't want to wait 4 months for the NHS to do it. The actual operation including the anesthetist's fee - the person who put me under general anesthetic (£200) and the surgeon's fee (i.e. the guy who actually cut me open, rummaged around with my intestines and sewed me back up (£310) cost a total of £510. I don't know what the exchange rates are right now and I'm too lazy to open up UCC, but that's around $1,000, right? Fine, add in another $300~ for the inevitable administration fees and whatnot that they tagged on. $1,300 for a full-blown operation. This was done privately, at the London Bridge Hospital, which is seen as one of the best private hospitals in London. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the quality of care I recieved was essentially on par with what I could get in the US.

Probably, in the USA an operation of that sort would cost at least $10,000, and I am probably waaaaaaay UNDER-estimating because in USA every specialist gets a cut: the surgeon, the person who puts you to sleep, and your private doctor who comes around every day to check your progress after surgury. And the people who run various tests on you have their grubby paws out, too.

[miditek]

If anyone reading this works in the medical insurance industry, I'm sorry if you are offended. But maybe next time you and your colleagues are all at the water cooler discussing how to spend those paychecks you don't really earn, maybe you should have a discussion instead about whether or not you feel morally wrong, knowing that you make a living off essentially ruining the lives of sick people? How many of you really feel comfortable in knowing that your cush lifestyle is provided by the suffering of someone else? Or does your wide-screen TV with surround sond drown out all the guilt?

I doubt if a couple of tylenol given to a patient with a headache costs $200 but thats is what is reported on bills.

I've seen billing statements where outrageous prices were indeed charged for Tylenol during a hospital stay.

I know a lady who had an accident which required a few stitches, and a 10-minute ER stay and her bill was $2,000, and that did not include the doc who did the 2-minute stitch job.

Then people have the gall to wonder why people are so pissed at the medical industry. My Dad spent a day in the hospital before he died with a massive coronary, and thank God he was on full coverage Medicare. My Mom refused to look at the statements which showed the charges. I'm sure THAT would have given her a heart attack--the sheer figures alone.

I have no doubt that everything that you are saying is indeed true. However, the truth behind outrageous ER and hospital bills is a rather complex maze of culprits that would be impossible to thoroughly document here. I will however, list some of the culprits for the sake of illustration.

- Indigent care, which is most likely the #1 culprit for excessive billing, is why so many patients get hit with large bills, even for simple procedures.

This in and of itself is very complex, due to the sheer number of variables that can come into play here.

Make no mistake about it, having 20+ million(or most likely more, my estimate is 25-30 million) illegals in the country, none of which have any intention of getting insurance or even paying for an office visit to the doctor, does not help.

There are also many millions of other people that live in public housing, that keep hatching child after child, and with different fathers, that feel entitled to not only "free housing", but also "free food", in addition to "free healthcare". These people have zero ambition to better themselves, and their numbers must be taken into consideration. Why should the taxpayers be liable for the recreational sex and lack of responsibility for these deadbeats?

There are other people, through no fault of their own, that have lost their jobs due to massive layoffs throughout the country for the past several years that in turn, could not afford to pay their COBRA premiums after being laid off.

Also, as Ruby mentioned, there are people that can actually afford to pay their monthly premiums for private insurance, although they too have no intention of doing so. When you are younger, you can often gamble against getting sick or injured, while spending money on mostly non-essentials, such as a new X-Box, iPhone, iPad, guitar, car, vacation, drinking and drug binge or whatever the case may be. So essentially, Ruby made a very valid point in regards to a very critical problem that we now face.

Like their illegal and ghetto counterparts, such a scenario of providing "free" care to young adults cannot be sustained over the long term. If the people listed above don't pay anything, then who does? If you said the people paying $200.00 for Tylenol or $2000 for stitches, then move to the head of the class.

- Insurance company/Medicare fraud before I jump into all of the bullshit that goes on in insurance companies, we should also take a look at some of the scams that can literally take money away from people that need it (for healthcare) and give it to people that do not (organized crime).

Insurance and Medicare fraud costs tens of billions of dollars per year. In fact, I read a HHS report that Medicare fraud recently cost the taxpayers over $60 billion dollars in one fiscal year alone. Now granted that these problems existed long before Kathleen Silbius, the current Secretary of Health and Human Services took office, but that is by no means an excuse for her not to aggressively pursue charges against those that are caught.

What CEO of any major corporation in the world would be allowed to continuously lose billions per year due to fraud and be allowed to keep his or her job? Firing Silbius would be a good start, but also cracking the kneecaps of mobsters that get caught in these capers would also send a good message that the taxpayers are tired of this shit.

- Insurance games, yes insurance companies always play shell games with policy holders. They spend billions of dollars each year on IT infrastructure with the single goal of denying your claims. They don't want to pay, and they will continue to make the system as bureaucratic as possible.

Contrary to what Ruby may think about insurance carriers' employees, many of them hold JD's and MBA's and are constantly working to deny claims...period.

Traditionally, the insurance companies didn't even make any money off of the policyholder's premiums. The old game was to invest the proceeds into the stock market to make up for any shortcomings in income vs. expenditures. This system worked rather well for many years, until we saw the dot com implosion.

There are various other reasons why healthcare is so expense, including mandates such as HIPPA (a giveaway for Silicon Valley), and HIPPA 5010 (a giveaway for the insurance companies, or more or less an excuse to deny claims while bugs in the 5010 forms are sorted out), among other items.