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Israeli PM Netanyahu tells President/Imam Soetoro that withdrawal to the pre-Six Day War borders is simply not going to happen.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailyp ... urn-no-way

Nice try Barry, but Bibi is no fool.

Won't it be really hard to move all those people out who moved into the settlements after 1967? I do not think they would go peacefully!

It's hard to argue with people who believe they have a right from God to be where they are, and then try to reconcile this with another bunch of people who also believe they have a right from God to be there.

But whatever, Netanyahu is going to hell in any case because he doesn't believe in Jesus so it doesn't matter.

NeonVomit wrote:It's hard to argue with people who believe they have a right from God to be where they are, and then try to reconcile this with another bunch of people who also believe they have a right from God to be there. But whatever, Netanyahu is going to hell in any case because he doesn't believe in Jesus so it doesn't matter.

How do you know what Netanyahu believes? Did he tell you? I read an interview with him recently where he spends about an hour and a half each Saturday with his son studying the Bible- and that his son had recently won a national Bible competition contest- similar to a spelling bee.

I realize that sympathy for the Koranimals and their murderous game plan is trendy, but as I mentioned, Bibi is no fool. He won't allow pre-conditional demands that are designed to weaken Israel to be used as a pretext for the actual negotiations themselves. Israel's enemies have no intent for peace, and the so-called preconditions are designed to make Israel's borders indefensible.

Are you claiming he's a Christian?

Whatever, my main point is that both sides occupy equally ludicrous positions, often using religious pretexts to justify them and neither will back down because neither has anywhere else to go. It's a whole case of contesting 'We were here first!' 'No, WE were here first!' claims stretching back ad infinitum combined with general traditions in the region dictating that compromise is a sign of weakness.

I've basically resigned myself to the fact that this problem will never be solved unless people stop paying attention to stuff that some guy who was high on shrooms claimed 3,000 years ago and other people stop paying attention to stuff that some middle class merchant claimed to have heard while tripping in a cave 1,400 years ago, conveniently none of which was actually written down until like 200 years later.

And I think you'll agree that the chances of all that happening are... slim.

NeonVomit wrote:Are you claiming he's a Christian?

Whatever, my main point is that both sides occupy equally ludicrous positions, often using religious pretexts to justify them and neither will back down because neither has anywhere else to go. It's a whole case of contesting 'We were here first!' 'No, WE were here first!' claims stretching back ad infinitum combined with general traditions in the region dictating that compromise is a sign of weakness.

I've basically resigned myself to the fact that this problem will never be solved unless people stop paying attention to stuff that some guy who was high on shrooms claimed 3,000 years ago and other people stop paying attention to stuff that some middle class merchant claimed to have heard while tripping in a cave 1,400 years ago, conveniently none of which was actually written down until like 200 years later.

And I think you'll agree that the chances of all that happening are... slim.

I said no such thing- I was quoting Netanyahu from an interview that I read on him a few months back. I've known several Jewish people over the years that read the New Testament, and each does so for different reasons. When I was a kid, I went to a local Catholic high school, and there were a number of Jewish kids there- and of course, Catholicism class was mandatory for all students at the school.

The entire pretext of "peace negotiations" as far as the PA is concerned is "what can we get up front before going to the negotiation table that will weaken Israel militarily?" and the PA has no intent of ever entering into a peace agreement with Israel.

If, for example, the Turks were firing across the border into the Greek partition of Cyprus, I am quite sure that the Greek Cypriots would be fully justified in defending themselves, don't you think? At the very least, the Turks are honest enemies of the Greeks, and don't pretend otherwise.

The entire premise of peace negotiations with Israel is based upon al-Taqiyah, the Islamic practice of deception in order to realize political and military goals that would otherwise be unattainable. It should be obvious to even a child that peace is the last thing that the Arab League and Iran want with Israel.

Regarding the age of the Gospels, in addition to other books of the Bible, the Gospel of Mark was written in approximately 64 A.D., and as you probably knew, it was originally written in Greek. The Book of Romans dates back to around 55 or 56 A.D. Some books came later, but your assertion that all books came during the third century may not be entirely accurate for reasons I have just stated. Your much more of a scholarly type than I am, so I can't let you get away with that particular assumption too easily now.

So he's still going to hell because he's a Jew and doesn't accept Christ, right? (hey... Bible's words, not mine.)

People shooting each other is a consequence of what I was originally saying. My point is the simple fact that people are following outdated belief systems that have no relevance in the 21st century world which lead them (or are used to induce them by political leadership) to kill each other over narrow strips of land. I didn't mention anything about the Bible or Torah, so no need to get defensive, although I'm still pretty sure it must have been some seriously funky stuff Moses was on when he was on that mountain.

If you re-read my post, you'll probably figure out that the guy tripping in a cave was referring to Muhammed, and the stuff that was written down like 200 years or so later was referring to the Koran. Or a hundred years. Whatever, it was written down like, a long time after he died after being spread by word of mouth, which of course means it's a perfectly accurate account of what he said and intended it to mean.

As for any Arab - Iranian alliance, everyone knows what good friends the Arabs are with the Iranians.

Oh, and

You're much more of a scholarly type

Just a pet peeve of mine.

NeonVomit wrote:So he's still going to hell because he's a Jew and doesn't accept Christ, right? (hey... Bible's words, not mine.)

That concept is not completely etched in stone. In Genesis, Enoch walked with God- and into Heaven. Elijah was not only taken away by a flaming chariot, but also made a post-incarnate appearance with Moses when they spoke to Christ at the Transfiguration. Abraham made a post-incarnate appearance in the Gospels with Lazarus and the rich man- and no, Abraham was not in Hell. There is also the issue of the coming Millennial Kingdom, and not to mention the Two Witnesses during the Tribulation- so with that being the case it's safe to say that there is not a black and white answer to the issue.

Entire books have been written on this argument, to put it mildly.

NeonVomit wrote:People shooting each other is a consequence of what I was originally saying. My point is the simple fact that people are following outdated belief systems that have no relevance in the 21st century world which lead them (or are used to induce them by political leadership) to kill each other over narrow strips of land.

You are merely pointing out your own opinions, and just because you consider a religion to be out of date, unhip, or not trendy does not in any way actually make anything irrelevant- particularly when there are over 2 billion Christians, 1 billion Muslims, in addition to millions of Jews worldwide.

You're simply stating your opinion- which is fine with me, but you are not omnipotent, so let's not assume that everyone is going to agree with your opinions.

NeonVomit wrote:I didn't mention anything about the Bible or Torah, so no need to get defensive, although I'm still pretty sure it must have been some seriously funky stuff Moses was on when he was on that mountain.

No, but you were certainly implying that, weren't you? If not, then what? Regarding Moses, since you weren't actually there with him on Mount Sinai so any suggestion that he was smoking anything at all is pure speculation on your part.

NeonVomit wrote:If you re-read my post, you'll probably figure out that the guy tripping in a cave was referring to Muhammed, and the stuff that was written down like 200 years or so later was referring to the Koran. Or a hundred years. Whatever, it was written down like, a long time after he died after being spread by word of mouth, which of course means it's a perfectly accurate account of what he said and intended it to mean.

That's fine- if that's what you meant, then why not be more specific- if nothing else, at least for the benefit of everyone else reading the thread? No need to be that cryptic in an anonymous web forum.

NeonVomit wrote:As for any Arab - Iranian alliance, everyone knows what good friends the Arabs are with the Iranians.

Even if Israel did not exist, the Sunnis and Shi'ites would still be exterminating each other by the bushel.

NeonVomit wrote:Oh, and

You're much more of a scholarly type

Just a pet peeve of mine.

Sorry

Cool, so I'm not going to go to hell for not believing? That makes life a bit less stressful!

You are merely pointing out your own opinions, and just because you consider a religion to be out of date, unhip, or not trendy does not in any way actually make anything irrelevant- particularly when there are over 2 billion Christians, 1 billion Muslims, in addition to millions of Jews worldwide.

You're simply stating your opinion- which is fine with me, but you are not omnipotent, so let's not assume that everyone is going to agree with your opinions.

I don't consider religion to be unhip or trendy, I consider it to be pointless and a security blanket for adults who are too scared to accept the finality of death, and therefore makes a very useful too for manipulation by different political leaders throughout history since time immemorial.

I don't think religion is irrelevant, it most certainly isn't but it should be. Religion is, to my mind, a vestigial much like the appendix... humanity has developed to a point that it's no longer needed, and occasionally explodes and kills people.

Of course these are my opinions, I don't expect everyone to agree with them... when did I claim they were anything but opinions?

No, but you were certainly implying that, weren't you? If not, then what? Regarding Moses, since you weren't actually there with him on Mount Sinai so any suggestion that he was smoking anything at all is pure speculation on your part.

No, I wasn't implying that, I'm quite aware of the Bible's history. I did used to attend Sunday school as a child and was brought up in a Christian family so I do know about this stuff. I've also read the Koran and some other religious texts - as the old saying goes, 'know your enemy'.

That's fine- if that's what you meant, then why not be more specific- if nothing else, at least for the benefit of everyone else reading the thread? No need to be that cryptic in an anonymous web forum.

I didn't think it was THAT cryptic...

NeonVomit wrote: I don't consider religion to be unhip or trendy, I consider it to be pointless and a security blanket for adults who are too scared to accept the finality of death, and therefore makes a very useful too for manipulation by different political leaders throughout history since time immemorial.

I don't think religion is irrelevant, it most certainly isn't but it should be. Religion is, to my mind, a vestigial much like the appendix... humanity has developed to a point that it's no longer needed, and occasionally explodes and kills people.

But to deny Christ's story on any level requires a certain level of ignorance associated with the fact that the gospel accounts ARE accurate.

Fact? Please demonstrate the accuracy of these 'facts'.

NeonVomit wrote:Fact? Please demonstrate the accuracy of these 'facts'.

Without straight up typing pages out of various books and other works, the 4 gospels are considered to be the most accurately preserved ancient documents ever. They can be accurately dated to having been written within the same generation or the generation after Christ's crucifixion, the book of Acts is regarded as the most historically precise document from that era, and the attention to detail and accuracy in describing the places and people of that era means that beyond a reasonable doubt, Luke was writing that book with firsthand knowledge. In addition, the historicity of Paul and the martyrdom of 11 of the 12 disciples is corroborated by multiple secular sources. Now, people have died for lies millions of times in history, but even Peter, the most loyal of Christ's followers, was unwilling to die for just Christ the messiah. In fact, when put to the test, he fled. It was after Christ's crucifixion and resurrection that the 12 were motivated to go out into the world, preach Christ's resurrection, and die for it before denying it.

This is a simplified and heavily condensed summary of a few of the more powerful arguments, but if you're looking for more in depth arguments, I could point you in the right direction.

AGAG wrote:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1514702853

That wasn't the one I was meant to post.

AGAG wrote:

AGAG wrote:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1514702853

That wasn't the one I was meant to post.

I can't find the other one.

What a shit shit shit!

Rebel wrote:

NeonVomit wrote:Fact? Please demonstrate the accuracy of these 'facts'.

Without straight up typing pages out of various books and other works, the 4 gospels are considered to be the most accurately preserved ancient documents ever. They can be accurately dated to having been written within the same generation or the generation after Christ's crucifixion, the book of Acts is regarded as the most historically precise document from that era, and the attention to detail and accuracy in describing the places and people of that era means that beyond a reasonable doubt, Luke was writing that book with firsthand knowledge. In addition, the historicity of Paul and the martyrdom of 11 of the 12 disciples is corroborated by multiple secular sources. Now, people have died for lies millions of times in history, but even Peter, the most loyal of Christ's followers, was unwilling to die for just Christ the messiah. In fact, when put to the test, he fled. It was after Christ's crucifixion and resurrection that the 12 were motivated to go out into the world, preach Christ's resurrection, and die for it before denying it.

This is a simplified and heavily condensed summary of a few of the more powerful arguments, but if you're looking for more in depth arguments, I could point you in the right direction.

So, in a similar way that The Tempest can be accurately traced back to Shakespeare's quill right? Doesn't mean that anything in The Tempest actually happened. This is my point. And people have given their lives up for far flimsier and hollower beliefs, simply look at the majority of Islamic fundamentalists or members of the Red Army faction. This is of course also taking into account people who have changed their minds.

The situation, to me, revolves around the idea that someone cannot die and come back to life. This contradicts the laws of both physics and biology. This is not a matter of opinion, if you are so inclined I invite you to test these laws yourself.

I do not believe there is a mysterious sky god controlling our fates or destinies, because there is no proof that he/she/it actually exists. Proof is not required for faith, so obviously no proof is needed for believers. The timeline described in Genesis completely overlooks how religion developed through history (oh and yeah... where did Cain find a wife?) and as for Creationism... well if you ascribe to that particular belief, then no amount of my typing is going to affect your point of view. You may as well believe the earth is flat. And please, none of this 'evolution is just a theory!' nonsense, it's a theory precisely because it is open to development and continual scrutiny, unlike faith where questioning anything is frowned upon.

(apologies for the delayed response, have been caught up with all manners of nonsense lately)

You two seem like insightful fellows!
Can either of you, who claim to have all the answers, tell me how I can lose 15 pounds in 15 days??

Without cutting off any limbs, of course.

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:You two seem like insightful fellows!
Can either of you, who claim to have all the answers, tell me how I can lose 15 pounds in 15 days??

Without cutting off any limbs, of course.

Mangos

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:You two seem like insightful fellows!
Can either of you, who claim to have all the answers, tell me how I can lose 15 pounds in 15 days??

Without cutting off any limbs, of course.

Liposuction!

NeonVomit wrote:

AAAAAAAAAA wrote:You two seem like insightful fellows!
Can either of you, who claim to have all the answers, tell me how I can lose 15 pounds in 15 days??

Without cutting off any limbs, of course.

Liposuction!

MANGOS!

You coat your belly with mangos... this eliminates the fat and gives your skin a beautiful white tone and a to-die-for texture. Imagine how grateful your dogs will be!

Yesterday, I awoke to find myself lying naked in a wooded area, being licked by a veritable cornucopia of strange animals.

I guess no one's mind would mind this post

OMG! This thread is incredibly sexual and it's turning me on right now!!