Stratovarius Community

adrian9 wrote:like...FINALLY!! this band had like 5 years of grace , they should had dissapeared quite sometime ago.
I enjoy Dawn of victory but more than 5 records of the same shit was unbearable.

Rebel wrote:

adrian9 wrote:like...FINALLY!! this band had like 5 years of grace , they should had dissapeared quite sometime ago.
I enjoy Dawn of victory but more than 5 records of the same shit was unbearable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2bUSSn1YuI
What albums were you listening to exactly?

Rebel wrote:

adrian9 wrote:like...FINALLY!! this band had like 5 years of grace , they should had dissapeared quite sometime ago.
I enjoy Dawn of victory but more than 5 records of the same shit was unbearable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2bUSSn1YuI
What albums were you listening to exactly?

adrian9 wrote:like...FINALLY!! this band had like 5 years of grace , they should had dissapeared quite sometime ago.
I enjoy Dawn of victory but more than 5 records of the same shit was unbearable.

adrian9 wrote:

Rebel wrote:

adrian9 wrote:like...FINALLY!! this band had like 5 years of grace , they should had dissapeared quite sometime ago.
I enjoy Dawn of victory but more than 5 records of the same shit was unbearable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2bUSSn1YuI
What albums were you listening to exactly?

i dont know all the names.. Im guessin from the first one up until Symphony of Enchanted Lands II and I heard that one because of Mr.C. Lee of course.
I´ve checked out some tracks from the more recent releases but for me is the same shit only highly produced.
is Fabio lione operatic vocal,alex doble bass pedal, the kingdom the blah blah blah blah...I mean this has been going on for more than ten years and the music has lost the impact it had in 1999.

and as I said before, mi favorite one is Dawn Of Victory I dont despise the band.

adrian9 wrote:like...FINALLY!! this band had like 5 years of grace , they should had dissapeared quite sometime ago.
I enjoy Dawn of victory but more than 5 records of the same shit was unbearable.

icecab21 wrote:adrain 9 has it down much better. 0 albums and 0 sales, much better than 10 albums and over 1.5 million sales.

there are two of them now if you read the press release.

Rebel wrote:It's not like Fabio Lione has developed a death growl and black metal vocals or anything...

Star_Ocean wrote:You're complaining about the "same shit"...But you're on a Stratovarius website, the kings of "same shit."

icecab21 wrote:my point is you are bitching about what others do with their music rather than setting an example with your own of what you think is "not shit"

the band plays for over 25000 thousand people when they do some of their concerts i don't think they are concerned about audience size, there are promoters willing to pay good money to have them tour.

adrian9 wrote:

Rebel wrote:It's not like Fabio Lione has developed a death growl and black metal vocals or anything...

not it is not, that would be something that Bruce Dickinson would do, but we are talking about gods.., Im pretty sure Fabio could sing with different textures like the ones he shows on vision divine and other projects, but on Rhapsody they guys just dont bother to try and rely on this in EVERY SINGLE FUCKING SONG..I mean 5 albums of that is more than enough.

icecab21 wrote:you say you like one, then they did the "same thing again", and now you don't like it? how can you have different opinions on what you say is the same thing?

do you complain that each of the lord of the rings books has a ring in it?

it's called a saga for a reason because its a continued storyline. double bass is part of the genre and the only other option is to not do double bass. Fabio sings in many different voices and characters in the storyline and the operatic voice is again the style and a normal singing voice that is only proper.

each song is very different if you listen to elements of music as a whole and not complain if two songs both have a 4 bar section with 16th notes for the drums or if they both have a triad or a operatic note.


i would have liked queen more if they did more material in bohemian rhapsody direction. a good song is a good song and a good style is a good style. i think radio gaga is a horrible direction compared to bohemian rhapsody

if i want to listen to very different music, i have different bands for that, i don't search out for any time the same drum pattern was used for 3 seconds in a few different songs and then say the band is producing shit music and should quit.

we will see about the loss or growth of fans for the two bands but i think they are in better situations than stratovarius was . stratovarius had such a different situation and tolkki made himself such a bad investment, while the guys in rhapsody of fire have not burned bridges with fans and potential business partners that have had to be rebuilt. i think it's fair to give the bands 5-10 years to build themselves and see where they are long term rather than point to them not being as successful a few months in

icecab21 wrote:a new melody is not a new idea?
you don't seem to be given much credit to composition. seems like you are asking for novelty over quality.

the saga also has a beginning middle and end. it just ended.

im fine with the direction queen went in and like the songs on each of the albums, but im not going to say the band should quit before making more in the style of bohemian rhapsody.


they did not say they can't work together anymore, they said they are not going to for now. alex is in both bands. song structure itself is another part that i think is a weak complaint. i mean song structure is just the bare bones of a song, the details are important. 4 wheels is great for a car, I'm not going to a 5 or 3 wheel car for the pure sake of being new or different. the band has to choose what its goals are and that will leave behind people with different values. expecting or demanding a band be different from it's values does not seem productive. i'd say Luca wants to be a champion of musical era where originality was not important as form and what people did within the system.

5-10 years. lets see with stratovarius, tollki joined in 85, , first album in 89 first chart in europe was in 96, first chart in japan was in 94. that 11 years to even really get going

helloween 84, first chart in 87

rhapsody, started 93, first album 97

angra started 91 first album 93

blind guardian started 84 first album 88

edguy started 92, first album 97, first chart 99

sonata arctica started 95, first album 99

iron maiden formed 75, first album 80

queen formed 71 first album 73

symfonia formed 10 first album 11

if I decide to quit anything , job , relationship, band, football team, is because.........I cant stand/like/work with it anymore....simple as that.

the car example...is not the 4 wheels bro, all cars have 4 wheels ,but every year they revamp the car with better brakes, more power, gps, now they got FB and Twitter on the car, see what I mean? if you want to make an analogy to the band thing lets say that rhapsody kept their model in 2005-06.

now it's music, i don't think music can be improved beyond what they were doing early on. is 1200npm some necessary thing to go to as 1000npm is just not fast enough? i think the band can refine itself and deeper mastery of the style and expression, but i don't think the technical details can be improved much from what the band did early on. the band has some aesthetic changes and different emphasizes, but i don't they they have or could get better. things should change if the band has something they want to express and they have to change it or get better and more refined at expressing what they are doing, but i don't think there is a great deal of room for quality advancement in what rhapsody was doing. they did make changes in delivery from album to album.

Bands should be demanded to improve, not to change,Ill give you that. and while I find their style to have an expiration date, the audience will finally tell, like disco died back in 80s, and some other styles that had come and go in metal and rock happens too. otherwise we will still listen some nirvana stuff...ahh the 90s.

improvement is subjective once the musical level is at a certain point. they fuse many different styles of music together and some of the styles are about very different things. neoclassical is certainly not a style of it was done once and shall never be done again, but a tribute to elements of music done before. it would be interesting to hear the difference between what bands compose and what bands release. there has to be a balance of what what a person composes and likes and what a audience will buy. a rhythm section can only play so tight and leads can only be so well developed before going into personal style.



well i was talking metal bands with history of over 10 years and the few years it took them to start

safe to say beiber has more resources and a bigger target market behind him than metal bands have had. he did start him momentum by lots of acoustic shows for teen radio stations, not many metal bands can do that.


i'm saying the songs are each different songs, not that they are cool songs, just that they are not releasing the same songs or the same thing.

what kinds of room for improvement do you think there is?

icecab21 wrote: thats normal, but you said the band should quit rather than quitting the band yourself.

icecab21 wrote:now it's music, i don't think music can be improved beyond what they were doing early on. is 1200npm some necessary thing to go to as 1000npm is just not fast enough? i think the band can refine itself and deeper mastery of the style and expression, but i don't think the technical details can be improved much from what the band did early on. the band has some aesthetic changes and different emphasizes, but i don't they they have or could get better. things should change if the band has something they want to express and they have to change it or get better and more refined at expressing what they are doing, but i don't think there is a great deal of room for quality advancement in what rhapsody was doing. they did make changes in delivery from album to album.

icecab21 wrote:improvement is subjective once the musical level is at a certain point. they fuse many different styles of music together and some of the styles are about very different things. neoclassical is certainly not a style of it was done once and shall never be done again, but a tribute to elements of music done before. it would be interesting to hear the difference between what bands compose and what bands release. there has to be a balance of what what a person composes and likes and what a audience will buy. a rhythm section can only play so tight and leads can only be so well developed before going into personal style.

icecab21 wrote:well i was talking metal bands with history of over 10 years and the few years it took them to start

safe to say beiber has more resources and a bigger target market behind him than metal bands have had. he did start him momentum by lots of acoustic shows for teen radio stations, not many metal bands can do that.

i'm saying the songs are each different songs, not that they are cool songs, just that they are not releasing the same songs or the same thing.

what kinds of room for improvement do you think there is?

adrian9 wrote:less operatic things.

AGAG wrote:

adrian9 wrote:less operatic things.

Like this: perv ?

I didnt say the band should quit, but yeah, they should quit.

like...FINALLY!! this band had like 5 years of grace , they should had dissapeared quite sometime ago.
I enjoy Dawn of victory but more than 5 records of the same shit was unbearable.

dude when i mean improve I wasnt talking about technical or instrumental skills, I was talking about taking new direction in writing arrangments that kind of stuff that are more Production and songwriter territories.

yeah there is certain factor X in each muical style, but that is why producers gets the big bucks, to find and improve a band sound a spotting the good songs that kind of things, everyone can push the REC button, but very few can develope a song, nice examples? phil spector, miko karmilla and martin birch, not to metion the awesome george martin.

sometimes I take Pop music examples because most of the metal and rock fans (im not saying you) think that pop and metal are the total opposites , and while, yeah, they are on different sides of an spectre they are in the same game, the oh so evil music industry, and most of the time they play by the same rules, yes they put your favorite band to do things they dont really want or back up.

room for improvement? well other example, back in the late 60s when rock music was dominated by beatles rip offs and psicodelia who knew that a little band called black sabbath would spawn a new genre? and after that zeppelin mixed it with folk, an so on and on...for a band like rhapsody is a though job because they decided to stay in the four walls of their kingdom, so anything that is not fantasy-themed is left out.
some ideas on the top of my mind would be mix some of what they do with some of the things that Ritchie blackmore is doing these days, with old instruments and stuff., and please less double bass and less operatic things.

icecab21 wrote:a band can dissapear without quitting? fans should listen to you and not like them since you don't like them? what are you saying here?

icecab21 wrote: well you did say the production improved. the goal of the band was not to write in a very different direction, but i think each has it's own where people can tell which cd it was from production wise. the cds have some different emphasis on different things such as some more symphonic and less metal and some more metal and less symphonic. some of the cds took a lot more tracks than others.

icecab21 wrote:i don't think the band or thousands of fans are complaining about what they put out or the production. the band members do talk about how they like the production on new albums more. the role of producer must be something that fits the bands goals.

icecab21 wrote:a lot more common with rock and metal and pop than some like to give credit to. metal bands have to put a balance and usually have common values for the importance of melody and rythem or super developed song forms or experimental.

icecab21 wrote:they have ended the saga so that will let them break out of those walls of the saga. fantasy lyrics in general are big walls and i think it's fair to have people write about what they want.

the part about less double bass, the majority of their music does not have double bass, but they do have speed metal as part of who they are so double bass is only logical

less operatic, well that's the vocals for the band, operatic is seen as a value for western music and this music and is again only logical

maybe this could be their next album, don't have to worry about speed metal values here.

icecab21 wrote:the change in guitar players will make a difference i think. luca wrote the lyrics as well so that creates a different dynamic in the band to not have him. the new guitar player likes the romantic era more than luca