The Sandy Hook Tragedy

[browneyedgirl]

What can I say? This massacre was a heartbreaking shame. Personally it chilled me to the bone because some of these children were as young as 5 years old, and my Grandson just turned 4, will be starting to preschool soon.
My God this shooter had to have been insane to kill little innocent children like that. This incident is beyond anyone's realm of understanding.
When some nut can just walk into an elementary school, and start killing little children, and teachers just doing their job it's time to realize something is screwed up somewhere. I know these things are actually rare events, and I know it was the shooter at fault, but the fact that these targets were not much more than babies creeps me out terribly, and sickens me.
The shooter killed himself, so there's no chance for retribution or vengeance from society. All we can do is hope there is a Hell, and this monster is burning in it.

I just hope some idiot is not dreaming up a plan to arm teachers now. I mean, talk about overkill.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nati ... 2668.story

Oh, 16 of the victims were 6, and under, FYI.

[NeonVomit]

Just crazy. Where do we even begin with this?

Trying to blanket outlaw guns in America would be like trying to oultaw alcohol - we saw how well that worked out - or like, porn. Just wouldn't work. Should something be done? Probably... but what? Of course, politics and vested interests will drown out the victims' families' suffering, as it always does. Just unimaginable.

Anyway, this makes sense.

[browneyedgirl]

I just got this off Facebook. Morgan is right on many points I have to say. I mean, what group will be the next target of some crazy person?


Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

[NeonVomit]

Can't find any source for that quote, but whoever wrote it - gotta agree with that.

[browneyedgirl]

Can't find any source for that quote, but whoever wrote it - gotta agree with that.

Morgan Freeman, the actor. He's always seemed pretty intelligent so he knows pretty much what he's talking about.
That quote is circulating and being shared quickly on Facebook--many people do agree with him on many points.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyreg ... .html?_r=0

Some of the children were riddled with bullets, they were shot multiple times. This is getting worse by the minute--the more they are finding out, the more horrific it gets!

[brought2ubyletterC]

Ah, Morgan...is there anything you don't know?

Seriously, I f*ckin' HATE when tragedies like this turn into yet another debate about guns.

Now before I get started on my tangent, let me just say I am not trying to mock anyone's belief system, nor do I think any one side is in the wrong for feeling the way they do. This is just the way I see it...

Whenever a tragedy like this happens, people immediately go to their respective side of the gun control issue and start spouting off, as if these tragedies give them an excuse to jump on a soapbox. I understand discussions like these are necessary in times like this, but like Morgan said, I think it's more for the attention factor and less that these people actually want to do something about the problem.

I'm sorry, but I think it's disrespectful when a tragedy like this happens, and people start in on "by God, you ain't takin' my guns!" Like anyone is thinking about taking your f*cking guns right now, when little children are dead. Yeah, I'm sure the first thing the parents who have just lost their innocent little children are thinking about is, "gee, how can I take Jim-Bob's gun away from him?" I hardly think so. I just think it is a slap in the face to everyone going through this tragedy right now.

News flash to the soapbox ranters: it's not all about you. These people are facing the most horrific thing that will probably ever happen to them (God willing) in their entire lives: losing a child. Isn't it enough that news cameras are camped outside their homes? Isn't it enough that the little school friends of their children have microphones shoved in their faces, asking to recant the memories that will no doubt have them on a shrink's couch for the rest of their adult lives? And somehow, through all that, these people think they have the right to whine and b*tch about the possibility that someone is gonna take their precious little penis replacement—I mean, guns—away from them. How f*cking selfish can people be?

And don't think I'm only focusing on the pro-gun people; they just seem to scream the loudest. I think it's just as bad when the anti-gun folks start in on their, "see? If we abolished all guns this never would have happened!" Do you think that makes the parents feel better about this? Do you think that your I-told-you-sos is really going to help in the healing process? Yeah, right. As if these people aren't going to live enough with the regret of "what if I'd left my child out of school that day?" or "what if I lived on the other side of town and my kid went to an entirely different school?" Do you really think all of your "what if?" scenarios are going to help in the grieving process? News flash to you guys too: it doesn't.

Whatever your take is about guns, they were legal as of yesterday, and they are still legal here today. I think as a society, people need to focus more on the victims and what we can do on our part as a society to help keep these things from hapepning again. I don't think we can ever fully avoid it, no matter what we do, but working together as a society might help, rather than pointing fingers at each other and blaming those who think differently than us for being part of the problem. Because as soon as someone starts in on the blaming, they're no longer part of the solution either.

For the record, I voted none of the options in the poll due to the fact that each option has their own set of said consequences, and in the end, it does mean whatever solution that is decided comes out of the taxpayers' dollars; and due to other reasons I'd rather get into at some other time, I am sick and tired of putting money into a public school system that has shown time and time again to be a failure.

End rant. Carry on.

[robocop656]

It's a conspiracy.

[brought2ubyletterC]

Another piece of info that came out which obviously would be no good in the premise of "lock up the school and allow no outsiders": the guy's mom volunteered at the school, therefore the guy took her keys and had access to get inside the school to commit these heinous acts. So this is a huge loophole in that rule. Sure, we could lock the school during school hours, but what's to prevent the same thing from happening again?

[NeonVomit]

Can't find any source for that quote, but whoever wrote it - gotta agree with that.

Morgan Freeman, the actor.

I know who Morgan Freeman is. My point is I can't find anywhere that actually confirms he said any of that, or the primary source of the quote - everything is 'Morgan Freeman said this:' and nothing dirctly from him.

Whoever said that has the right idea though.

[adrian9]

agree with the morgan quote and also i read somewhere that in conneticut you only got to be 21 to buy a rifle.. wtf? guns cant be that available

[NeonVomit]

Apparently something like 80% of mass shootings in the U.S. have been carried out with legally purchased weapons.

Norway has super-restrictive gun laws, that didn't stop Brevik. Ultimately, if a psycho really wants to go out and kill a bunch of people, they will find a way of doing it. Having easily accessible weapons just makes it easier.

We still don't know much about the shooter or basically, if there were any warning signs that he would do this. We'll just have to wait and see.

[adrian9]

Apparently something like 80% of mass shootings in the U.S. have been carried out with legally purchased weapons.

Norway has super-restrictive gun laws, that didn't stop Brevik. Ultimately, if a psycho really wants to go out and kill a bunch of people, they will find a way of doing it. Having easily accessible weapons just makes it easier.

We still don't know much about the shooter or basically, if there were any warning signs that he would do this. We'll just have to wait and see.

i dont know too much about norway mass murders but i think those are rare compared to the ones in eeuu so if the super-restrictive gun law can make those numbers as low as they can possibly be , that is the way to go.

[AGAG]

It's a conspiracy.

[miditek]

Apparently something like 80% of mass shootings in the U.S. have been carried out with legally purchased weapons.

Norway has super-restrictive gun laws, that didn't stop Brevik. Ultimately, if a psycho really wants to go out and kill a bunch of people, they will find a way of doing it. Having easily accessible weapons just makes it easier.

We still don't know much about the shooter or basically, if there were any warning signs that he would do this. We'll just have to wait and see.

i dont know too much about norway mass murders but i think those are rare compared to the ones in eeuu so if the super-restrictive gun law can make those numbers as low as they can possibly be , that is the way to go.

Mexico, for example, has very restrictive gun laws; the average citizen there is not permitted to have anything larger than a .22 caliber rifle and yet that hasn't stopped the drug cartels from killing tens of thousands of civilians as well as judges, prosecutors, and police. It also doesn't help that the ATF was sending truckloads of assault rifles across the border while the U.S. Attorney General's office withheld information about the operation despite Congressional subpoenas and was eventually held in contempt of Congress.

Russia has traditionally had very tight gun laws, but that didn't stop a gang of bloodthirsty Chechen terrorists from taking over 1,000 teachers and students hostage at Beslan nor did it stop security forces from firing rockets and live tank shells into the school during the inevitable raid that followed. The loss of life there was at least ten to twenty times higher than the event in Connecticut.

Syria also has restrictive gun laws, although that would hardly ever stop the Sunnis and Shiites from exterminating each other in prodigious numbers. The sad fact is that there is a general spiritual sickness worldwide that cannot and will not be resolved by any amount of legislation.

Governments in general love tragedies, and can be very opportunistic in cases where they can exploit public outcries and grief for their own gain and ultimately, consolidation of power.

[browneyedgirl]

Guess what, folks? The crazy irony is that in the past 2 days gun sales have risen dramaticly. Yep, nothing like a tragedy to get the fanatics crawling out of the woodwork. One crazy in the barrel and all the apples think they are going to be made into sauce. At least the NRA is keeping their big mouths shut for once and took down their Facebook page--temporarily, I'm sure. My husband was going to join the NRA once, then he found out what kind of fees they charge for membership and he exclaimed,"Those greedy money grubbing bastards!" Making money off of people's fear is a booming business. People in the USA are armed to the teeth, and don't worry, gunlovers, your toys won't be taken away even if there are a million Sandy Hooks. Nobody really gives a shit until it's their own child, grandchild, or relative who gets killed, then it's wailing time.

[brought2ubyletterC]

^THIS!!!

[browneyedgirl]

Well, it gets worse. As you may expect there are know-it-all's who are booming,"If someone(a teacher, coach, or janitor) had of been carrying a gun they could have stopped the massacre!" What is wrong with this picture? A gun in school? Around little children? Huh?In a state of readiness? Even if the guns had been locked up on campus away from children noone could have gotten to the guns in time. That goes for anyone who could have had a gun in his/her car--this act happened so fast(less than a minute from beginning to end) nobody had time to think, to hide, much less fire a gun first. And the guy only went to about 3 classrooms, so it was not like Columbine. Lanza shot all his eggs in one basket.
In this particular case, nothing or nobody could have stopped that psycho. So, gunnuts, pipe down your ego, and think-if you can! Unless you were there nobody has a smidgen of understanding what went on there, and in what order, or time frame.

[adrian9]

armed teachers is the craziest thing they could come off with, how about dis-arm the city and destroy those guns? i guess that is way too much work

[browneyedgirl]

armed teachers is the craziest thing they could come off with, how about dis-arm the city and destroy those guns? i guess that is way too much work

I don't think it's too much work, the gunlovers just don't want to give up their penis replacement, and inflated ego. People do have to protect themselves somehow but violence begets violence and there has to be a solution within the moral and spiritual make-up of people. This is an even harder job to accomplish, and sometimes I, personally think it's starting to be too late. Like I've said before, people are armed to the teeth. Out in the rural areas most people own 2 or more guns, and many have small arsenals, and all legal guns.(Frankly, I don't understand why there aren't more gun accidents than what they are)In the suburban, and city areas it's worse, and guns circulate as freely as drugs. It is estimated there are several guns per every man, woman, and child alive in the USA. Think on that. USA is supposed to be a civilized country. Has having more guns curbed the violence? Hell, no!

[Rebel]

armed teachers is the craziest thing they could come off with, how about dis-arm the city and destroy those guns? i guess that is way too much work

not armed teachers, but possibly a gun safe in each school with keys given to teachers willing to take gun safety courses.

[miditek]

Well, it gets worse. As you may expect there are know-it-all's who are booming,"If someone(a teacher, coach, or janitor) had of been carrying a gun they could have stopped the massacre!" What is wrong with this picture? A gun in school? Around little children? Huh?In a state of readiness? Even if the guns had been locked up on campus away from children noone could have gotten to the guns in time. That goes for anyone who could have had a gun in his/her car--this act happened so fast(less than a minute from beginning to end) nobody had time to think, to hide, much less fire a gun first. And the guy only went to about 3 classrooms, so it was not like Columbine. Lanza shot all his eggs in one basket.
In this particular case, nothing or nobody could have stopped that psycho. So, gunnuts, pipe down your ego, and think-if you can! Unless you were there nobody has a smidgen of understanding what went on there, and in what order, or time frame.

We have an SRO (School Resource Officer) program here in my area.



http://www.hcsheriff.gov/uniform_services/sro.asp

The SRO officers have been a great resource at schools here in the area. The kids feel safer, and each SRO functions much like any other faculty member as a guest teacher, counselor, and friend to the thousands of kids in our schools.

They are armed, but wear the 'soft' uniforms, which are basically khakis and golf shirts with the sheriff's department badge and logo embroidered on the garment.

Even if someone has a fully automatic or even a semi-automatic weapon- they are not omnipotent, and have to reload sometime. Firing on an enemy while they are reloading is a classic infantry tactic from both sides of both world wars.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

I've read a lot of interesting opinions here actually.
But at the end of the day, what others see as a giant tragedy, I see as statistically insignificant. These little blips on our radar should not factor into the gun control debate.

The words from Morgan Freeman were pretty insightful. I agree that we should stop making these killers into celebrities. But at the same time I still find it very interesting, in a morbid kinda way, to read about them.

[browneyedgirl]

armed teachers is the craziest thing they could come off with, how about dis-arm the city and destroy those guns? i guess that is way too much work

not armed teachers, but possibly a gun safe in each school with keys given to teachers willing to take gun safety courses.

Yes, but would they be able to get to the guns on time? A school shooting is an unpredicted event, kinda like an earthquake, you never know when one is going to happen but I guess a person has to now live with that rare possibility in the back of the mind. And, that's a shame, really.

Alabama is already discussing placing an armed police officer in every school. Fine, but he cannot be in 2 places at once, and an intelligent psychopath could figure out where the officer is, and at what point, when he is eating his doughnuts, etc. and make their move. Even a bulletproof vest cannot stop a bullet to the head, unless he wears a helmet, then the psycho could shoot the guard in the leg(striking the femoral artery, perhaps)and disable him.
There's all kinds of arguments pro, and con to each solution to this rare problem.
It has to start on the social, mental, and emotional level as to what provokes someone to do such a horrific act. Children who are bullied and treated like shit by other students, and teachers often have this fantasy but do not act it out. So, what makes a person so weak that they do such a thing? The moral and ethical code of this country is faltering, there's no doubt--like the time a guy was going to commit suicide by jumping off a tall building, and some people in the crowd was yelling, "JUMP,JUMP!". Or the 3 teenage boys who beat a homeless man to death instead of giving the man a dollar, and walking on. There's thousands of examples which show USA is quickly losing its sense of right&wrong, and feelings of tenderness and pity for the downtrodden.
This whole country is going to pay the price for that.

[adrian9]

armed teachers is the craziest thing they could come off with, how about dis-arm the city and destroy those guns? i guess that is way too much work

not armed teachers, but possibly a gun safe in each school with keys given to teachers willing to take gun safety courses.

Yes, but would they be able to get to the guns on time? A school shooting is an unpredicted event, kinda like an earthquake, you never know when one is going to happen but I guess a person has to now live with that rare possibility in the back of the mind. And, that's a shame, really.

Alabama is already discussing placing an armed police officer in every school. Fine, but he cannot be in 2 places at once, and an intelligent psychopath could figure out where the officer is, and at what point, when he is eating his doughnuts, etc. and make their move. Even a bulletproof vest cannot stop a bullet to the head, unless he wears a helmet, then the psycho could shoot the guard in the leg(striking the femoral artery, perhaps)and disable him.
There's all kinds of arguments pro, and con to each solution to this rare problem.
It has to start on the social, mental, and emotional level as to what provokes someone to do such a horrific act. Children who are bullied and treated like shit by other students, and teachers often have this fantasy but do not act it out. So, what makes a person so weak that they do such a thing? The moral and ethical code of this country is faltering, there's no doubt--like the time a guy was going to commit suicide by jumping off a tall building, and some people in the crowd was yelling, "JUMP,JUMP!". Or the 3 teenage boys who beat a homeless man to death instead of giving the man a dollar, and walking on. There's thousands of examples which show USA is quickly losing its sense of right&wrong, and feelings of tenderness and pity for the downtrodden.
This whole country is going to pay the price for that.

you cant give people guns and expect all to be fine, at some point one of this guns is gonna fall into the wrong hands and then a disgrace might happen, there is nothing that can justify the losing of loved ones, this sense of "legal" and "freedom of choice" in order to "protect" is a pantomime to induce fear, people killing each other and they are not even a menace, what is going take ? how many people have to die?

[icecab21]

ban public schools

[browneyedgirl]

ban public schools

I hope you are kidding because not everyone can homeschool, and not many people can afford private schools. Seriously, these school shootings give a parent another thing to worry about. Violence in general(bullying, fighting, drugs,etc.) is already bad in schools in many areas of the country and shootings just add fire to an already volatile mix.

[browneyedgirl]

armed teachers is the craziest thing they could come off with, how about dis-arm the city and destroy those guns? i guess that is way too much work

not armed teachers, but possibly a gun safe in each school with keys given to teachers willing to take gun safety courses.

Yes, but would they be able to get to the guns on time? A school shooting is an unpredicted event, kinda like an earthquake, you never know when one is going to happen but I guess a person has to now live with that rare possibility in the back of the mind. And, that's a shame, really.

Alabama is already discussing placing an armed police officer in every school. Fine, but he cannot be in 2 places at once, and an intelligent psychopath could figure out where the officer is, and at what point, when he is eating his doughnuts, etc. and make their move. Even a bulletproof vest cannot stop a bullet to the head, unless he wears a helmet, then the psycho could shoot the guard in the leg(striking the femoral artery, perhaps)and disable him.
There's all kinds of arguments pro, and con to each solution to this rare problem.
It has to start on the social, mental, and emotional level as to what provokes someone to do such a horrific act. Children who are bullied and treated like shit by other students, and teachers often have this fantasy but do not act it out. So, what makes a person so weak that they do such a thing? The moral and ethical code of this country is faltering, there's no doubt--like the time a guy was going to commit suicide by jumping off a tall building, and some people in the crowd was yelling, "JUMP,JUMP!". Or the 3 teenage boys who beat a homeless man to death instead of giving the man a dollar, and walking on. There's thousands of examples which show USA is quickly losing its sense of right&wrong, and feelings of tenderness and pity for the downtrodden.
This whole country is going to pay the price for that.

you cant give people guns and expect all to be fine, at some point one of this guns is gonna fall into the wrong hands and then a disgrace might happen, there is nothing that can justify the losing of loved ones, this sense of "legal" and "freedom of choice" in order to "protect" is a pantomime to induce fear, people killing each other and they are not even a menace, what is going take ? how many people have to die?

That is precisely the point I was making about armed guards, but such may become a necessary evil. OTOH, a real psycho won't give a shit, he is going to attack anyway and that is the unshakeable fear most parents of schoolchildren have.

[icecab21]

no public schools would free up a lot of money and innovation for private schools. a lot of poor would be better served with private schools as private schools would be more interested in giving kids a education and a community.

[bockrocker]

no public schools would free up a lot of money and innovation for private schools. a lot of poor would be better served with private schools as private schools would be more interested in giving kids a education and a community.

The average person can't send a child to a private school with the money they would save in taxes if public schools were eliminated.

Also keep in mind that most private schools do not exist for the sole purpose of providing education. In the United States private schools are generally affiliated with a religion (3 religious schools for every 1 secular school). Not to mention nearly every private school has many more people applying for entry than they have room for. The idea that private industry could step in and provide a decent education for a fair price, to millions upon millions of people, is quite frankly laughable.

Anyway despite Obama's assertions, I expect this latest gun adventure will go nowhere. Democrats will suggest better background checks and bans on big clips and military style rifles. Republicans will counter that every teacher (or every student ;p) should be armed. They will filibuster each other to an impasse. In a month, all will be forgotten until the next massacre.

[icecab21]

http://www.economist.com/node/21550251
this article shows poor people choosing private over public schools.

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/b ... z2Ffm4YXgs
another

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articl ... ed0319.htm
another


lets see, school can be free, so i think that is less than public school

http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm
http://www.ocwconsortium.org/

we have stuff like this
http://www.freeworldu.org/static/BasicFree.aspx