Stratovarius Community

From Slayer's official facebook page:

"Slayer is devastated to inform that their bandmate and brother, Jeff Hanneman, passed away at about 11AM this morning near his Southern California home. Hanneman was in an area hospital when he suffered liver failure. He is survived by his wife Kathy, his sister Kathy and his brothers Michael and Larry, and will be sorely missed.

Our Brother Jeff Hanneman, May He Rest In Peace (1964 - 2013)"

Really, a very tragic loss. I've only seen Slayer once in my life, and at that time he was recovering from that tarantula bite, so I never had the chance to watch him live. May he rest in peace

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RIP Jeff

RIP man

An RIP is always in order. That sounded like a tough last couple of years for the guy. I was never a huge Slayer fan but it's always sad when people die a bit early.

On a more meta level, I find it an interesting phenomenon how people (like fans) deal with death of an avowed satanist. On facebook for instance, someone wrote "Godspeed Jeff!" I mean WTF.. Godspeed!?

A lot of other people wrote stuff like "see you in Hell". I suppose if you are to adhere to the codes of this belief system it's almost as if you have to take the normal condolence or sympathy stuff people have said in the Christian context but turn it around 180 degrees.

But still, "Yeah, Jeff's last few years on Earth were hard but now his suffering in Hell will be infinite! Rock on!! Great!! He goes with Satan now and will be tortured horribly for all eternity!!".... it doesn't quite sit right with me somehow.

Perhaps some dead satanists were only pretend satanists, like for show and publicity? But then if someone would even hint at that this would be the case, it would be a terrible insult because it would somehow defile the "epic satanic metalness" image and vibe.

Jeff on surviving that spider bite: "Satan had my back!" http://www.metalsucks.net/2011/12/14/je ... d-my-back/

Blabbermouth, ever being blabbermouth: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?m ... mID=189512

I don't know, does anyone have anything to say about it? I readily admit I don't know so much about Satanism (and many other religions). Did (and do) the Slayer guys really believe in Hell?

(Related question, do I totally believe in trolls, dragons, unicorns and the benevolent nature of humans since I play in a power metal band.. )

JensJohansson wrote: Perhaps some dead satanists were only pretend satanists, like for show and publicity?

Jens, my friend, it has been always about publicity. It has been happening since the very beginning and Constantine the Great crystallised that idea. Hell or heaven has been always something that at least till now, we don't understand. Maybe in some thousands of years of evolution, human beings will understand and of course, thanks to science (anyway TT says in 100 years there won't be human being ).
The more ignorant a person is, the most he wants to believe in heaven or hell (in the way religions thinks). Of course I believe there was and there is something, I believe in life after death, and I believe in that energy being something more, but we'll now the truth thanks to science, not thanks to the same stupid old ideas and "funny" people saying what you have to do to reach jesus or satan. And well, I suppose soon we'll have some kind of icecabish debate feeding cavemans ideas about religion around here and I will lost more neurons, so I don't want to create controversy. But well, it is not necessary to be a genius to read the whole story of religions since the beginning and understand when and where and why it is that important for some people the heaven, hell, satanist, jesus follower thing. And yes, requiescat in pace.

RazielSR wrote:

JensJohansson wrote: Perhaps some dead satanists were only pretend satanists, like for show and publicity?

Jens, my friend, it has been always about publicity. It has been happening since the very beginning and Constantine the Great crystallised that idea. Hell or heaven has been always something that at least till now, we don't understand. Maybe in some thousands of years of evolution, human beings will understand and of course, thanks to science (anyway TT says in 100 years there won't be human being ).
The more ignorant a person is, the most he wants to believe in heaven or hell (in the way religions thinks). Of course I believe there was and there is something, I believe in life after death, and I believe in that energy being something more, but we'll now the truth thanks to science, not thanks to the same stupid old ideas and "funny" people saying what you have to do to reach jesus or satan. And well, I suppose soon we'll have some kind of icecabish debate feeding cavemans ideas about religion around here and I will lost more neurons, so I don't want to create controversy. But well, it is not necessary to be a genius to read the whole story of religions since the beginning and understand when and where and why it is that important for some people the heaven, hell, satanist, jesus follower thing. And yes, requiescat in pace.

I suppose I can relate to everything you write. Someone wrote on Blabbermouth "if one of the guys from slayer cried in public then they'd never live it down. it just can't happen)." Even the blind hens of blabbermouth can stumble on a nugget of truth

I mean more the perhaps not-so-dedicated satanists who are nonetheless hardcore slayer fans.. there is a combination of factors which make it interesting. Jeff is probably the first satanist megastar to die after the social media explosion. So you can get an insight into how some people tick.

Fort instance on blabbermouth someone there talks about his bed-ridden grandmother and how sad that was... and then ends it with "we love you Slayer". I mean wouldn't a true slayer fan be happy that gramma and Jeff are now partying in hell with the devil, chilling out having a few pints of molten lead in the sauna (which has the temperature of the sun's core), or whatever?

That the slayer guys at least on the surface proffered some evidence of a belief in "hell" in some form I think is pretty clear, when you name an album "hell awaits".

For some reason I have some memory reading some thing about some type of "chaos satanism" (maybe it was in relation to the band Watain) which to me makes more sense than all this stuff with goats and pentagrams, but which I also realize when you would really think about it leads to something which I would at least describe as different from satanism.. let's say some type of pessimistic nihilistic materialism or whatever. To me the universe may be chaotic but it's not malevolent. It just doesn't care much, it's a thermodynamic machine and the caring bit ends up being up to us and you're back to square one.

The connection with chaotic thermodynamics and why Watain would have to dress in roadkill before their shows escapes me.. probably because I am an unspiritiual idiot.

JensJohansson wrote:

RazielSR wrote:

JensJohansson wrote: Perhaps some dead satanists were only pretend satanists, like for show and publicity?

Jens, my friend, it has been always about publicity. It has been happening since the very beginning and Constantine the Great crystallised that idea. Hell or heaven has been always something that at least till now, we don't understand. Maybe in some thousands of years of evolution, human beings will understand and of course, thanks to science (anyway TT says in 100 years there won't be human being ).
The more ignorant a person is, the most he wants to believe in heaven or hell (in the way religions thinks). Of course I believe there was and there is something, I believe in life after death, and I believe in that energy being something more, but we'll now the truth thanks to science, not thanks to the same stupid old ideas and "funny" people saying what you have to do to reach jesus or satan. And well, I suppose soon we'll have some kind of icecabish debate feeding cavemans ideas about religion around here and I will lost more neurons, so I don't want to create controversy. But well, it is not necessary to be a genius to read the whole story of religions since the beginning and understand when and where and why it is that important for some people the heaven, hell, satanist, jesus follower thing. And yes, requiescat in pace.

I suppose I can relate to everything you write. Someone wrote on Blabbermouth "if one of the guys from slayer cried in public then they'd never live it down. it just can't happen)." Even the blind hens of blabbermouth can stumble on a nugget of truth

I mean more the perhaps not-so-dedicated satanists who are nonetheless hardcore slayer fans.. there is a combination of factors which make it interesting. Jeff is probably the first satanist megastar to die after the social media explosion. So you can get an insight into how some people tick.

Fort instance on blabbermouth someone there talks about his bed-ridden grandmother and how sad that was... and then ends it with "we love you Slayer". I mean wouldn't a true slayer fan be happy that gramma and Jeff are now partying in hell with the devil, chilling out having a few pints of molten lead in the sauna (which has the temperature of the sun's core), or whatever?

That the slayer guys at least on the surface proffered some evidence of a belief in "hell" in some form I think is pretty clear, when you name an album "hell awaits".

For some reason I have some memory reading some thing about some type of "chaos satanism" (maybe it was in relation to the band Watain) which to me makes more sense than all this stuff with goats and pentagrams, but which I also realize when you would really think about it leads to something which I would at least describe as different from satanism.. let's say some type of pessimistic nihilistic materialism or whatever. To me the universe may be chaotic but it's not malevolent. It just doesn't care much, it's a thermodynamic machine and the caring bit ends up being up to us and you're back to square one.

The connection with chaotic thermodynamics and why Watain would have to dress in roadkill before their shows escapes me.. probably because I am an unspiritiual idiot.

I agree. Chaos has more order than order has to create chaos, and more if we talk about energies (or whatever we want to call it). I don't think the "universe" is good or bad either. If andromeda will join the milky way in some billions of billions of years or if the sun will become a red giant and will erase the solar system, it won't be because it is evil or good, jesus or satan, it will be becuase it is what it is, and not what we want it to be. People in blabbermouth is just trying to find order in their minds, and they find chaos because they are stucked in the same limbo we've been stucked since our existence. It is better for us to create a paralell reality and be happy with it than to try an evolution of our minds. So that's why you have satanist writting the same way as if they were christians. It is easier for us to dress in roadkill, or be satanist of jesus followers than try to trascend our mental evolution. It is just because we can't even grasp the nature of our existence and the pattern has repeated itself more times than we can know.
Everytime we try to find paths regarding this, we reach a moment that trascends our understanding and we believe in irrational, chaotic and of course ordered ideas.

Confidence born of ignorance.

I suppose that is somebody could read these conversations and behaviours regarding satan or jesus in year 15150 for example, it would be like seeing a petroglyph in a museum today. Of course that people or whatever they will be, will have other minds and other thinks to be "scared" of. But well, till then, we can continue being satanists, jesus followers or popes I suppose.

I was really upset. What a crappy way to go. Been a big Slayer fan for years, and count myself lucky that I got to see them twice recently. Dude wrote some awesome songs.

Just an RIP from me, no godspeed or 'hail Satan!'.

JensJohansson wrote: I don't know, does anyone have anything to say about it? I readily admit I don't know so much about Satanism (and many other religions). Did (and do) the Slayer guys really believe in Hell?

I think I read somewhere that Tom Araya considers himself a Catholic, but as Dara O'Brain said, you can become atheist, you can forsake religion, you can even convert to Islam, and you'll still be a Catholic...

(Related question, do I totally believe in trolls, dragons, unicorns and the benevolent nature of humans since I play in a power metal band.. )

True that! You've managed to avoid the swords at least....

JensJohansson wrote:

RazielSR wrote:

JensJohansson wrote: Perhaps some dead satanists were only pretend satanists, like for show and publicity?

Jens, my friend, it has been always about publicity. It has been happening since the very beginning and Constantine the Great crystallised that idea. Hell or heaven has been always something that at least till now, we don't understand. Maybe in some thousands of years of evolution, human beings will understand and of course, thanks to science (anyway TT says in 100 years there won't be human being ).
The more ignorant a person is, the most he wants to believe in heaven or hell (in the way religions thinks). Of course I believe there was and there is something, I believe in life after death, and I believe in that energy being something more, but we'll now the truth thanks to science, not thanks to the same stupid old ideas and "funny" people saying what you have to do to reach jesus or satan. And well, I suppose soon we'll have some kind of icecabish debate feeding cavemans ideas about religion around here and I will lost more neurons, so I don't want to create controversy. But well, it is not necessary to be a genius to read the whole story of religions since the beginning and understand when and where and why it is that important for some people the heaven, hell, satanist, jesus follower thing. And yes, requiescat in pace.

I suppose I can relate to everything you write. Someone wrote on Blabbermouth "if one of the guys from slayer cried in public then they'd never live it down. it just can't happen)." Even the blind hens of blabbermouth can stumble on a nugget of truth

I mean more the perhaps not-so-dedicated satanists who are nonetheless hardcore slayer fans.. there is a combination of factors which make it interesting. Jeff is probably the first satanist megastar to die after the social media explosion. So you can get an insight into how some people tick.

Fort instance on blabbermouth someone there talks about his bed-ridden grandmother and how sad that was... and then ends it with "we love you Slayer". I mean wouldn't a true slayer fan be happy that gramma and Jeff are now partying in hell with the devil, chilling out having a few pints of molten lead in the sauna (which has the temperature of the sun's core), or whatever?

That the slayer guys at least on the surface proffered some evidence of a belief in "hell" in some form I think is pretty clear, when you name an album "hell awaits".

For some reason I have some memory reading some thing about some type of "chaos satanism" (maybe it was in relation to the band Watain) which to me makes more sense than all this stuff with goats and pentagrams, but which I also realize when you would really think about it leads to something which I would at least describe as different from satanism.. let's say some type of pessimistic nihilistic materialism or whatever. To me the universe may be chaotic but it's not malevolent. It just doesn't care much, it's a thermodynamic machine and the caring bit ends up being up to us and you're back to square one.

The connection with chaotic thermodynamics and why Watain would have to dress in roadkill before their shows escapes me.. probably because I am an unspiritiual idiot.

I, in general, keep fairly quiet about my beliefs on here, but I think that's a very real and important conundrum. I'm not quite articulate enough to speak on it perhaps, but I don't think the members of Slayer were any more or less real 'satanists' than their fans, or hardcore occultists, and that's because the belief system, from an eternal perspective, is absolutely asinine. However, from a worldly perspective, makes more sense, especially for one who doesn't believe in the eternal. It certainly has it's "earthly" benefits in the form of increased publicity, or maybe the fear and 'respect' of the people around them. It's like, if everyone is standing in line with a ticket to a boat that's on the other side of the door, and nobody can see beyond the door, the satanist is the one who burns their ticket to shock everyone else standing in line.


The thing is, whenever someone dies, we all find we believe in the eternal a lot more than we'd like to admit.

Slayer fans saying that Jeff is now dancing with the devil and eating raw food while drinking blood, they aren't rally true fans. If we talk about the message Slayer gave to the community, there was no message at all. They claim themselves to be "satanic" just for the sake of not being like the rest of the Big 4: I mean, if you listen to "Show No Mercy" it really sounds like a dark-themed "Kill 'Em All", and so they wanted to be different and started this trend. Tom Araya is a catholic, Dave Lombardo gives a fuck about religion, and Kerry King is catholic maybe? I dunno, I just think that Slayer isn't a band that wants to promote a message of satanism, they just wanted to be that different band from the crowd.

Now, there are some of the fans that listen to their music just for the sake of its speed and virtuosity, and for the fact that they put up a marvelous show when live; I'm one of those and I truly feel bad about his death, and I hope he is OK wherever he is now. I don't believe neither in heaven, nor in hell, but I will never wish he's suffering down there; I believe those fans took the word of satanism way too serious. And that just show how ignorant and stupid people can be

I think kerry king and tom araya had stated that they never have been real "satanist" I dont remember where I read the article, but they were talking about one of their covers "Reign in Blood" must have been something on revolver magazine.

is really sad hearing that a fellow musicians has passed away, im pretty sure Jeffs music made Slayer fans happy , if he is in heaven or hell, or any other mistic place, Im confident he is not suffering.
RIP

ggonza43 wrote: I don't believe neither in heaven, nor in hell, but I will never wish he's suffering down there; I believe those fans took the word of satanism way too serious. And that just show how ignorant and stupid people can be

That was just me writing in the voice of a hypothetical very serious fan. Ie I never actually read anyone writing that stuff!

Interesting about Araya being a catholic!

As far as fans taking it seriously though, this is to be expected, that's one of the few things I have learned over the years. Like Vonnegut put it -- "be careful who you pretend to be" etc

Rebel wrote:It's like, if everyone is standing in line with a ticket to a boat that's on the other side of the door, and nobody can see beyond the door, the satanist is the one who burns their ticket to shock everyone else standing in line.

Shock for fun and profit.

I chuckle a bit when I think about how innocent the 70s were. If I remember what I read about it people were real concerned about Jimmy Page dabbling in the occult.. I imagine he had an H.P. Lovecraft book and burned some candles, but it's nothing he ever admitted to because it was felt to be so obscene.

Then we fast forward to the mid 80s and there's a record called "Hell Awaits" and the band's logo features a big fat pentagram in the middle of it, the fanclub is called "slaytanic wehrmacht" etc.

And of course nowadays things have evolved (?) into Watain helpfully doing their civic duty and clearing roadkill from Swedish highways.

The thing is, whenever someone dies, we all find we believe in the eternal a lot more than we'd like to admit.

That's sort of the core of what I meant, it's very interesting to see how people work thru that issue now that they basically post anything they think and feel on social media, including details about meals and bowel movements.

I actually didn't see (yet?) any wishes for Jeff Hannemann to suffer in hell or whatever. On facebook. I did see one "see you in hell" which is pretty innocent in it's sort of jovial non-explicitness I guess..

rest in peace is weird.
there is no resting in death.
death is non existence of consciousness.there is no feeling of anything, let alone peace or suffering.

if there is a eternity, why would someone want to rest for it, rather than be active for it?

Icecar can start a new religion with that sort of insight.

We already saw you icecab, no reason to be an attention whore

It does seem like RIP would be an insult to a dude who wanted to chill with Satan.

JensJohansson wrote:A lot of other people wrote stuff like "see you in Hell".

I remember in the 80's that whole thing got to be a little ridiculous and pretty cliched. It was formulaic, pre-fab black metal, or "metal-by-the-dots".

Sort of like these guys here...

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And it didn't take long for Beavis and Butthead to start heckling this video in the '90s, i.e, @3:57 in this vid, "Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! In the name of all that does not suck!"

JensJohansson wrote:I suppose if you are to adhere to the codes of this belief system it's almost as if you have to take the normal condolence or sympathy stuff people have said in the Christian context but turn it around 180 degrees.

Or just turn it 90 degrees away from Jerusalem towards Mecca.

JensJohansson wrote: But still, "Yeah, Jeff's last few years on Earth were hard but now his suffering in Hell will be infinite! Rock on!! Great!! He goes with Satan now and will be tortured horribly for all eternity!!".... it doesn't quite sit right with me somehow.

I don't think notions like that would sit well with anyone, although as far as the real devil is concerned, bands like Slayer, Venom, and especially Mercyful Fate, might have been a bit too obvious even for his tastes .

It brings to mind one of my favorite quotes from C.S. Lewis's classic on the devil, "The Screwtape Letters":

"It is funny how mortals always picture us as putting things into their minds; in reality our best work is done by keeping things out."

JensJohansson wrote:I mean wouldn't a true slayer fan be happy that gramma and Jeff are now partying in hell with the devil, chilling out having a few pints of molten lead in the sauna (which has the temperature of the sun's core), or whatever?

I think that true Slayer fans bought into the marketing machine for "shock value" but without considering that Hell might actually be real. It's like the old saying of, "the web has been spun, but someone forgot about the spider."

JensJohansson wrote:let's say some type of pessimistic nihilistic materialism or whatever.

Those are core values of today's postmodern society, at least in the West.

JensJohansson wrote:To me the universe may be chaotic but it's not malevolent. It just doesn't care much, it's a thermodynamic machine and the caring bit ends up being up to us and you're back to square one.

I think as far as creation (the universe itself) goes, you're probably right. However, viewing creation without also at least considering the Creator may actually violate orthodox scientific method! In other words, where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

JensJohansson wrote:Interesting about Araya being a catholic!

A cultural Catholic at least, if not a practicing one. He probably wouldn't feel out of place having a few drinks at the bar with the gang at the KoC (Knights of Columbus) hall during a Friday night fish fry.

JensJohansson wrote:I chuckle a bit when I think about how innocent the 70s were. If I remember what I read about it people were real concerned about Jimmy Page dabbling in the occult.. I imagine he had an H.P. Lovecraft book and burned some candles, but it's nothing he ever admitted to because it was felt to be so obscene.

Page actually owned an occult-themed bookstore back in the '70s that was called "The Equinox Booksellers and Publishers." Pamela Des Barres, one of his old girlfriends, said that he used to have her comb bookstores in LA for old, rare occult titles to send back to his store in London. Of course, he eventually had to sell the shop since his "day job" took up most of his time.

He'd also said in interviews that he'd purchased various manuscripts of the mysticist Alistair Crowley, and even went so far as to purchase his former estate, "The Boleskin House", complete with its own creepy graveyard, and situated on the banks of Loch Ness in Scotland.


Jimmy Page (or maybe Dave Grohl) at the Boleskin House

Some of Page's 'fantasy' sequences in "The Song Remains the Same" were filmed there, including the infamous scene where he has the red eyes while playing guitar by the water, as well as the mountain climbing scene.


That must have been some grade A shit he was smoking!