SONATA ARCTICA - Ecliptica (2014 Re-Record)

[HinatAArcticA]

I compare this thing to those remakes hollywood is doing now that they are running out of ideas or dont care to invest in new things

>New
Implying Pariah's Child isn't releasing in 2 days?

And about movie remakes, you are gonna pretend these are bad?...

True Grit (2010), The Fly (1986), The Ten Commandments (1956), The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956), A Fistful of Dollars (1964), Ocean's Eleven (2001), Scarface (1983), The Thing (1982), Ben Hur (1959), The Ring (2002), The Departed (2006), Cape Fear (1991), Heat 1995...

Please...

Those are more akin to covers than true remakes in this sense. I can name precisely one director who made a beloved work, only to decide 15-20 years later that he needed to go back and change everything. You can too. I don't even need to say his name, only that Han shot first, and the fact that this is now on T-shirts tells you all you need to know about an artist reimagining past successes.

Rebel, sorry I find very hard to take you seriously knowing your mindset.

Let me now point out how you are making no sense...

First: If you are not mature enough to say the name George Lucas to bring up such an out of place example, then don't even bother.

Second: The Star Wars movies have NEVER been through the process of remaking. They have been through an entire different proces which is ALTERATION OF THE ORIGINAL WORK, not an entire re-shooting.

Third: This re-recording is being made from the ground up, just like the movies you deny are remakes. I find riddiculous you even try to find a way arround that, because that's what they are, remakes.

Fourth: Tony is not adding/altering Ecliptica's original recordings. So the fact that you compare the process of adding and altering the original work itself, versus re-recording songs that have been performed live FOR YEARS in many different ways, just sounds desperate and silly, sorry.

Fifth: You are comparing the work of hundreds people in a span of over 30 years, with the work of 5 people in a span of 15 years. How does that even make any sense?

Sixth: I'm a videogame junkie, I have no shame in saying this, and something that has happened in this little world for a long time now, are remakes. Blind love for the original doesn't make the new one bad or better, because they should be judged separately, but it seems you can't do that.

Oh btw, let me name another re-make...
The Man Who Knew Too Much was originally made in 1934 by Alfred Hitchcock. In 1956, the movie was re-made from the ground up by... Alfred Hitchcock.

[adrian9]

now that you bring THA HITCH I would ask, what is better the original Psycho or the one with Vince Vaugh?
I think the main problem of the Remakes is that you are taking a huge classic cult and most likely try to live up to the original , is a battle lost from the get go.
that is why Bob Gale has been adamant of NOT doing a remake of back to the future nor it would be sequels etc. for example.

of all the movies names you are dropping whom was a classic before the remake...?

howz about a remake of casablanca or citizen kane or metropolis?

In case you didnt notice or read between lines , to me ecliptica is on the same legendary level the movies I quote....I love that shit!

[Rebel]

I compare this thing to those remakes hollywood is doing now that they are running out of ideas or dont care to invest in new things

>New
Implying Pariah's Child isn't releasing in 2 days?

And about movie remakes, you are gonna pretend these are bad?...

True Grit (2010), The Fly (1986), The Ten Commandments (1956), The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956), A Fistful of Dollars (1964), Ocean's Eleven (2001), Scarface (1983), The Thing (1982), Ben Hur (1959), The Ring (2002), The Departed (2006), Cape Fear (1991), Heat 1995...

Please...

Those are more akin to covers than true remakes in this sense. I can name precisely one director who made a beloved work, only to decide 15-20 years later that he needed to go back and change everything. You can too. I don't even need to say his name, only that Han shot first, and the fact that this is now on T-shirts tells you all you need to know about an artist reimagining past successes.

Rebel, sorry I find very hard to take you seriously knowing your mindset.

Let me now point out how you are making no sense...

First: If you are not mature enough to say the name George Lucas to bring up such an out of place example, then don't even bother.

Second: The Star Wars movies have NEVER been through the process of remaking. They have been through an entire different proces which is ALTERATION OF THE ORIGINAL WORK, not an entire re-shooting.

Third: This re-recording is being made from the ground up, just like the movies you deny are remakes. I find riddiculous you even try to find a way arround that, because that's what they are, remakes.

Fourth: Tony is not adding/altering Ecliptica's original recordings. So the fact that you compare the process of adding and altering the original work itself, versus re-recording songs that have been performed live FOR YEARS in many different ways, just sounds desperate and silly, sorry.

Fifth: You are comparing the work of hundreds people in a span of over 30 years, with the work of 5 people in a span of 15 years. How does that even make any sense?

Sixth: I'm a videogame junkie, I have no shame in saying this, and something that has happened in this little world for a long time now, are remakes. Blind love for the original doesn't make the new one bad or better, because they should be judged separately, but it seems you can't do that.

Oh btw, let me name another re-make...
The Man Who Knew Too Much was originally made in 1934 by Alfred Hitchcock. In 1956, the movie was re-made from the ground up by... Alfred Hitchcock.

LOL you're RIGHT I'm THE desperate AND silly ONE

[SentineLEX]

Why do people have such a problem with the SW trilogy remakes? I like the 2004 ones, and only consider them inferior to the Adywan ones of 2008 and TBA.

[HinatAArcticA]

LOL you're RIGHT I'm THE desperate AND silly ONE

Yeah, my examples actually make sense

You know? Everytime I post something about Sonata, you've 95% of the times been negative about it. I don't know what did I even expect.

of all the movies names you are dropping whom was a classic before the remake...?

howz about a remake of casablanca or citizen kane or metropolis?

In case you didnt notice or read between lines , to me ecliptica is on the same legendary level the movies I quote....I love that shit!

Well if you put it that way.
You bring up a couple fair points, but if fair is where we are going, why not just wait for this to be released? Before going into movies, I quoted some music examples.

I'm not asking you to appreciate this project. All I'm saying is, to make such a harsh judgement on something that's not even been released makes no sense. I wouldn't even ask you to compare them Adrian, just to be fair enough to separate them.

In that sense... I decided to study and do music, because of Mr. Mike Oldfield. Long before I became a metal fan of any band, log before Sonata became my favorite band. Tubular Bells is a masterpiece of all time rock music. Changed the way music was geing seen at the time, and launched Virgin Records to be a power house in the music industry. I was sceptical about the 2003 re-record, but I gave it a chance, and I'm glad I did.

Why do people have such a problem with the SW trilogy remakes? I like the 2004 ones, and only consider them inferior to the Adywan ones of 2008 and TBA.

You know, my brother is a film enthusiast
Much more than I've ever been. He's watched a lot of art movies and tons of classic stuff by a bunch of high level directors. On that note, there are changes to Star Wars he likes, and others he doesn't like. But he has never gone fanboyish "Protector of Star Wars" like some people do. He's just fair, and a very intelligent guy. He can judge something with a cold mind based on it's own quality.

He actually said something in these lines when I told him about Ecliptica... "Well, the original is ireplacable, and I don't think the new one will be better, but I'll give it a listen when it comes out"

Couldn't be any more simple than that.

[HinatAArcticA]

Just for the record, and in case someone's thinking I like EVERYTHING Tony and Sonata do, here's a list of the Sonata Arctica songs I don't like.

These are just personal opinions, and don't reflect how good or bad these songs are. Just why i don't like the songs.

Picturing the Past - Could never really care for it as it is. I don't like Tony's voice on it or the pacing of the song. Keyboard solo is ok.
Letter to Dana - This is only for the album version. Live version from Live in Finland and the 2008 alternate versions I do like. Original is just too long for its own good. I get bored.
The End of This Chapter - Cheese, cheese, more cheese, repetitive, more cheese, too long, I'm bored, never liked it.
Last Drop Falls - "Walking in the cool night air without underwear"?? What the hell? Also, I don't find the melody particullary interesting and extends too long for me. Also, cheese. Ah well, Jani's solo is cool.
Under Your Tree - UNIA is interesting, because it takes risks, and does fun things with them. This song is too flat for this album. I tend to skip this one.
To Create a Warlike Feel, The Wolrds Forgotten, The Worlds Forbbiden, Fly With the Black Swan - I think this is as experimental as Sonata has ever gone, and tbh, I'm not a fan of any of these. I don't find them catchy, or musically interesting. maybe To Create a Warlike Feel, but not enough for me to really care.
Breathing - The melody is boring, the solo is boring, the lyrics are... ok. It's so safe I just can't really care for it.
Zeroes - I tried to give this one many chances, because... I didn't use to like The Dead Skin but that one grew on me and ended up loving it. This one, I don't like the instrumentation, the theme, the music itself, the voice... it jsut ends up annyoing me. Chorus is not even that interesting.
Shitload O' Money - I understand the desire to make a more rock-ish song, but this just... doesn't work for me. This kind of sound is much better done in Pariah's Child' Half a Marathon Man, but here it's just boring.

I then have a couple I'm just a bit tired off, or that are just in a limbo, which I like sometimes, and don't like other times...

Replica
FullMoon
Mary Lou (I prefer the acoustic version)
Tallulah
Black Sheep
Respect the Wilderness
The Missery
For the Sake of Revenge
Flag in the Ground
I Have a Right
Don't be Mean
Tonight I Dance Alone


I'll expand on both lists once I listen to Pariah's Child a bit more, because I haven't listened to it enough to make a fair judgement of all the tracks.

Last third of The Days of Grays it's a bit too dragged for it's own good... but I like the songs there a bit. Just not too much of a fan of the pacing towards the end. Gets too slow...

Now, things I don't like the band doing just in general...

Setlist: I'm just not usually a fan of their live setlists, mostly because they keep repeating FullMoon, Replica and Black Sheep take space that could be taken by UnOpened, Land of the Free, Blank File or Weballegry... not to mention WHG AMAZING songs such as Silver Tounge or Champagne Bath, and don't even get me started on Reckoning Night, only SA album which I like from start to finnish, including bonus tracks. There's plent of amazing songs of the first 4 albums being left out for these 3 particular songs. They can keep it retro and play something other than those 3 songs, which I've listened to every single time I've been to a gig.

Mixing of Pariah's Child: Pasi is a good audio engenier... but he's not Mikko Karmila, and I miss his touch to SA's latest album. Actually, should Pasi mix Ecliptica 2014 and not Mikko, I'll be a bit dissapointed. I even posted about it in SA's forum. This re-recording deserves Mikko Karmila.

Audio in Live in Finland: This was a common complaint when the live album released. Guitar too quiet, voice to damn loud, and I couldn't agree more. I don't like the mixing of that album, even more with the Sonata Open Air show in the same package, which is treated masterfuly. It was to the point where I took Blank File and tried my best to improve it and even posted it on YouTube.

Tony's Voice in Ecliptica: This problem repeats a bit in Silence but not as much. Tony's voice in Ecliptica is just way too procesed for the sake of keeping it clean and on high pitches he was never able to reach naturally. This goes away almost entirely in WHG, but it was something I found a bit annoying, and best proof of this is that songs such as Blank File or Wolf and Raven were never, not even when they were brand new, performed in their original key. They have always been played in a lower key, because Tony can't handle them. Destruction Preventer used to be performed live at the very begining too, and that final scream, Tony was never able to do it live. Even if you listen to the Ecliptica demos, you can hear Tony singing some parts differently, because the demos were his raw voice. The scream in My Land... "Never take awAAAAAAAAAAAAAY", on the demo, is on the same key as the 2006 version and as on the live versions. because that's Tony's real vocal range. So... yeah, not a fan of the over-produced voice he had in Ecliptica.

This Makes no Sense at All: So, arround the release time of The Days of Grays Tony once said... "We make slower songs because we are not younger anymore, and we want to be able to play these songs when we are 60 or so"... to which I say... "Ok, that's nice and fair Tony but... YOU ARE NOT EVEN 40 YET...". We all saw Jörg steamroll the hell out of Visions songs after being treated for his cancer and being almost 50... so, saying you are worried about your 60's when you are not even 40 seems a bit of a strech to me, and makes no sense at all... that's no reason to not be playing the faster stuff, and how do I know Tony eventually realized that was nonsense talk?... well... Pariah's Child?

Keeping the Jani Matter in the Dark: Jani was bored of the band, he didn't want to stay anymore nor was he good for the band's chimestry. They split, and were mad at one another for a while. Later in life, they'd drink a beer and be all cool and stuff. Yet the way the whole thing was treated made it seem like a stupid move from the band, and in Jani's words: "There wasn't even as much drama as people make it out to be"... so I was just never happy with how the band treated that whole thing. Got the Jani quote from his blog. it should be arround there somewhere, I remember that.

Sonata Arctica is my favorite band in my life. I adore them, their music, and everything that sorrounds them. But to think I like everything they ever release or approve ANY THING Tony would do would be to underestimate me. I'm not blinded by fanatism. There are things I like and things I don't like about them.

I stand behind Ecliptica's re-recording, because Tony wrote those songs. It's his music, and has the right to do whatever he wants with his music, and because I think his reasons are entirely fair and understandable. He wants to aproach the songs in a more mature way. I'm sure he won't be processing his voice nearly as much. It's a celebration for 15 years of awesome stuff, and the band has changed and matured a lot, so it makes sense for them to want to revisit an old place.

But I don't want to appear as a fangirl who can't see Tony doing things wrong. I don't follow him blindly to wherever he goes. I think this post is a testament to that. Yes, I am a fan and are in love with them. But if I don't like something, I'll say so.

And again, I'm not trying to say... "HEY, LIKE THIS BECAUSE I SAY SO"... all I really ask for, is to reserve judgement until the record is released. It's ok to hate it once it's out and if you say... "Oh, the guitar is not as good on this solo, and this song sounds now bland to me". Everyone's entitled to their opinion and musical tastes, but only after you've listened to it, not before.

It's my honest opinion.

[Rebel]

You know? Everytime I post something about Sonata, you've 95% of the times been negative about it. I don't know what did I even expect.

I've got as nuanced an opinion on Sonata as I do on most bands. I love their early work up through Unia, thought that Tony completely lost his mind and released two absolutely terrible albums followed by what appears to be an attempt at redemption, that I should be listening to, but right now I'm listening to Thy Majestie, and so forget anything else until this album finishes. As for this, I think that Ecliptica is a fine record, and that Tony is a fool for dragging it through a rerecording. I think that even Flag in the Ground, which was a great composition from that time period, was completely underwhelming from Tony's new sensibilities, and I'm still not convinced he really understands what makes him so great. There are a lot of different parts to Tony Kakko the musician, and the parts I appreciate, and the parts he values seem to be quite different.

I can, and probably will, ignore his rerecording of this album, but the DECISION to do so is one I can't respect. I think artists going back and rerecording albums plagued with problems, or just really poorly recorded debuts (Like Edguy, for instance) I can understand, but when an artist nails it, and then decides to go fix what isn't broken, I lose respect for that musician, because that musician doesn't respect his own work, which I love.

[HinatAArcticA]

I think that Ecliptica is a fine record, and that Tony is a fool for dragging it through a rerecording. I think that even Flag in the Ground, which was a great composition from that time period, was completely underwhelming from Tony's new sensibilities, and I'm still not convinced he really understands what makes him so great.

...I can understand, but when an artist nails it, and then decides to go fix what isn't broken, I lose respect for that musician, because that musician doesn't respect his own work, which I love.

You are one pretencious guy aren't you?
Who do you think you are to judge these people and their right to do with their music what they want?

You know what? I give up. I've wrote a bunch of lenghty posts with a lot of solid stuff in them.

So... yeah, peace Rebel. Later

[Metal Panda]

Adria9 music producer opinion about Sonata arctica 2014
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[Rebel]

I think that Ecliptica is a fine record, and that Tony is a fool for dragging it through a rerecording. I think that even Flag in the Ground, which was a great composition from that time period, was completely underwhelming from Tony's new sensibilities, and I'm still not convinced he really understands what makes him so great.

...I can understand, but when an artist nails it, and then decides to go fix what isn't broken, I lose respect for that musician, because that musician doesn't respect his own work, which I love.

You are one pretencious guy aren't you?
Who do you think you are to judge these people and their right to do with their music what they want?

You know what? I give up. I've wrote a bunch of lenghty posts with a lot of solid stuff in them.

So... yeah, peace Rebel. Later

Yeah. How dare I have an opinion. The NERVE of me.

[HinatAArcticA]

It seems this alubm is going to be released only in Japan.

[adrian9]

It seems this alubm is going to be released only in Japan.

that is good news!

[HinatAArcticA]

It seems this alubm is going to be released only in Japan.

that is good news!

Well, it was a request from their japanese label, so it was to be expected

[icecab21]

HinatAArcticA, do you need rebel to feel a certain way about this?

[HinatAArcticA]

HinatAArcticA, do you need rebel to feel a certain way about this?

Not really, I don't mind
Why?

[icecab21]

Why?

You are one pretencious guy aren't you? Smile
Who do you think you are to judge these people and their right to do with their music what they want?

[HinatAArcticA]

Why?

You are one pretencious guy aren't you? Smile
Who do you think you are to judge these people and their right to do with their music what they want?

Neither Rebel or I have wrote a single thing on the topic for over a week. I can get invested, but no point being negative or explain it any more than what I did in a bunch of lengthy posts. I don't know about Rebel, but I don't care so much anymore...

[Rebel]

HinatAArcticA, do you need rebel to feel a certain way about this?

[HinatAArcticA]

Not sure what are you trying to acomplish here.

I've rarely defended a point that hard in this forum. And I thought of a couple answers, but tbh I don't really mind anymore?

Got a couple things to think this week that made me realize it doesn't really matter.

So I exposed all my arguements in previous extensive posts. But right now I'm ok with anyone hating this idea. I don't mind much anymore.

Tbh I'm a bit more happy to see that that this forum can still have a couple serious discusions, even if they heat up I suppose.

[icecab21]

that sounds like a bad recipe to not be ok if someone hates something.

enjoying it on your own and with others that enjoy it seems like a better place to be if you enjoy it.

[robocop656]

How Can Mirrors Be Real When Our Eyes Aren't Real?

[HinatAArcticA]

It seems we have a release date:

October, 24th

Also, the bonus track won't be Mary-Lou, but the Genesis cover they recorded a couple years ago, I Can't Dance.

[HinatAArcticA]

Possible Cover

Tracklist:
1.- Blank File
2.- My Land
3.- 8th Commandment
4.- Replica
5.- Kingdom for a Heart
6.- FullMoon
7.- Letter do Dana
8.- UnOpened
9.- Picturing the Past
10.- Destruction Preventer
11.- I'm Haunted (Japanese Bonus Track)
12.- I can't Dance (Genesis Cover)

Release Date: October 24th

Immediately the one track that caught my attention is I'm Haunted. I wonder if they really finally re-recorded such an old track, or if it's simply the original demo having an official release.

[SatanicSmile]

Immediately the one track that caught my attention is I'm Haunted. I wonder if they really finally re-recorded such an old track, or if it's simply the original demo having an official release.

re-recorded

http://thegreathankhunt.blogspot.fi/201 ... mment-form

[HinatAArcticA]

Immediately the one track that caught my attention is I'm Haunted. I wonder if they really finally re-recorded such an old track, or if it's simply the original demo having an official release.

re-recorded

http://thegreathankhunt.blogspot.fi/201 ... mment-form

Yeah! It'll be awesome

Also, first single will be Kingdom for a Heart and will be available as a digital download on September 12th

[Rebel]

I'm telling you, this is going to hold up to the original release exactly as well as "Flag in the Ground", which I was never a fan of. I think Tony forgot what made him like that kind of music so much.

[SatanicSmile]

I'm telling you, this is going to hold up to the original release exactly as well as "Flag in the Ground", which I was never a fan of. I think Tony forgot what made him like that kind of music so much.

How I see it, is that he just wanted to use that melody in Flag in the Ground. I don't think it's meant to be remake like for example, Addict/Sing in Silence. So I guess it will be close enough to original, but I could be wrong of course.

I don't like the idea of re-recordings (Ecliptica songs, I'm Haunted is alright) but I can't wait to hear Tony's voice in some songs they haven't played for like 10 years.

I'll probably buy Korean or Taiwanese release.

[HinatAArcticA]

Here we have a statement from the official site

While currently on yet another successful World Tour, this time to support their latest studio-album »Pariah’s Child«, Finnish Melodic Metal heroes SONATA ARCTICA swung by the studio to re-record their debut album »Ecliptica«, which was released 15 years ago.

This new version will be released on October 24th under the banner »Ecliptica – Revisited; 15th Anniversary Edition« on Nuclear Blast.

Back then, »Ecliptica« was recorded at Tico-Tico studios and mixed at Finnvox by Mikko Karmila (NIGHTWISH, CHILDREN OF BODOM and more). The album was promoted live on tour with STRATOVARIUS and RHAPSODY.

Henrik „Henkka“ Klingenberg comments: “When it first was suggested to us by our Japanese label that we’d re-record our debut album »Ecliptica«, it felt a bit weird, but somehow the idea grew on us. Being that only Tony and Tommy played on the original one, we thought that it would be a fun thing to do, to give these great songs another run. We’re definitely not trying to re-write history, the original »Ecliptica« is the starting point of this band and a very special album with a certain feel of innocence and enthusiasm which cannot be recreated as such since we’re not teenagers anymore. Having said that, this new version is more of a tribute and an update on how these songs sound when played by our current line-up. We wanted to stay true to the original album as much as possible and not turn this into some weird re-arranged project where you couldn’t tell which song was being played. So here it is, the 15th anniversary version of »Ecliptica«. Hope you enjoy it, we certainly had a good time digging into these songs and laying down the tracks.

I'd also like to point out that non of this songs was remade the way Flag in the Ground v.s. Blackout was, and even I'm not much of a fan of Flag in the Ground, but I'm in part blaming the mixing and use of the orchestra. I never really saw Flag in the Ground as a power metal song. It doesn't have the energy or feel that Blood has, just to use a recent track as an example.

I like the fact that Henkka points out how they respected the song's original forms, which make me wonder if they'll get as "different" as the 2006 versions, or if they'll be closer to the 1999 versions. This for My Land and Replica.

[AAAAAAAAAA]

Cloud Factory is gay.

[adrian9]

I wonder is henkka would respect the original tony keyboard solos, I think they dropped the ball not including a re recording of mary lou, I love that one