.....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Equinox · Post by **Equinox** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:27 pm

They always sing 'bout god, and stuff...but bad stuff, and i really dont know wich god they mean, what u think 'bout it?

Agent Orange · Post by **Agent Orange** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:31 am

I don't think I ever saw them placing God as main subject in their songs. Their music does seem to have some spiritual theme overall, but that doesn't mean they actually believe in God themselves. It's kinda like members of black metal bands, who aren't Satanists: just because they sing about it, doesn't mean they actually believe in the stuff themselves.

The only way we'll know for sure is by asking TT and co. in person.

browneyedgirl · Post by **browneyedgirl** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:38 am

I recall TT once posting that he DID believe in God, but as an omnipotent being--one who is present throughout the Universe, all around us, and within everyone.
This was a few years ago&he could have changed his view about God since then, especially given the hard times he has been through.

As for the other guys, I think Jens is a agnostic(based on his postings) and the other guys have never said.

Religion is a very private matter--dear to each&everybody's own heart--no ones business, really--unless an individual wants to discuss it!

Equinox · Post by **Equinox** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:11 am

then why, they're always attacking god, fantasia, athen of the world, elemts, papillon, etc , if they believe in he ,why they're aways blaming god for the stuff thats heppens down here?

Stratovarious · Post by **Stratovarious** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:00 am

mmm and what about alpha and omega?

are they attacking God in that song ?

Equinox · Post by **Equinox** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:07 am

In that song they said:
I am the birth and death,
I am the fear and anger,
And thats not true.

Twilightsymphony · Post by **Twilightsymphony** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:29 am

Equinox wrote:then why, they're always attacking god, fantasia, athen of the world, elemts, papillon, etc , if they believe in he ,why they're aways blaming god for the stuff thats heppens down here?

Well.. if there is something like a god then he is doing quite a lousy job down here

LittleHarry · Post by **LittleHarry** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:37 am

there is not...i hope so at least...i`m quite eager to die, not to live som idiotic afterlife...

Lucid Faia · Post by **Lucid Faia** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:34 am

Well, Tolkki has attacked Christianity in the past, pretty much blaming Jesus for the mistakes of Christians, and acting like he doesn't make mistakes of his own, one reason I created that one topic...

However, he seems to have come to realize that as of late.

Beast_Pete · Post by **Beast_Pete** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:33 pm

Why he, why not she? Maybe God is a girl.

But that doesn't matter. There's no equation to find out, if God exists or not, there's noone who could tell me, that he/she doesn't exist. I just don't really care. For me the creation of the World is more acceptable, than the random/stochastic evolution. But there's no clue. We don't know, and we won't find the answer in are life (in our life here, on the Earth... if there's any other life for us to be given).

antonio · Post by **antonio** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 2:53 pm

check out for "find your own voive" lyrics...

however TT in my opinion is a very spiritual person...and try to find a reason in his songs...
i'm catholic and sometimes it's so hard to find an answer...

Beast_Pete · Post by **Beast_Pete** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 3:16 pm

Yes, Find Your Own Voice is a good song to find out, what the relationship between TT and God is. BTW, Jens is the God.

NordicStorm · Post by **NordicStorm** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:34 pm

Beast_Pete wrote:Why he, why not she? Maybe God is a girl.

I'd like to think it is neither...

Beast_Pete · Post by **Beast_Pete** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:40 pm

NordicStorm wrote:
Beast_Pete wrote:Why he, why not she? Maybe God is a girl.
I'd like to think it is neither...

Yep, maybe God is an it.

browneyedgirl · Post by **browneyedgirl** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:06 pm

antonio wrote:

check out for "find your own voive" lyrics...

however TT in my opinion is a very spiritual person...and try to find a reason in his songs...
i'm catholic and sometimes it's so hard to find an answer...

Yes, I like to think TT is a believer in some sense of the word.
It is so hard to know which road to travel, religiously, and given the hardships he has known in his life, finding ones own path is twice as challenging. I know because I have had a rocky road to travel myself in this life&many times cried out in anger,&pain,"Why. God--if you are there--answer me!"
A person can be spiritual without being religious, because the spirit of us dwells deeply within all of us&does not have any connection with God&the hereafter. Believing in God has to do with Faith&its not easy to give our faith like that to an outside force.

Beast_Pete · Post by **Beast_Pete** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:09 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:
antonio wrote:

check out for "find your own voive" lyrics...

however TT in my opinion is a very spiritual person...and try to find a reason in his songs...
i'm catholic and sometimes it's so hard to find an answer...

Yes, I like to think TT is a believer in some sense of the word.
It is so hard to know which road to travel, religiously, and given the hardships he has known in his life, finding ones own path is twice as challenging. I know because I have had a rocky road to travel myself in this life&many times cried out in anger,&pain,"Why. God--if you are there--answer me!"
A person can be spiritual without being religious, because the spirit of us dwells deeply within all of us&does not have any connection with God&the hereafter. Believing in God has to do with Faith&its not easy to give our faith like that to an outside force.

Well said Browny.

Fireblade · Post by **Fireblade** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:55 pm

Equinox wrote:then why, they're always attacking god, fantasia, athen of the world, elemts, papillon, etc , if they believe in he ,why they're aways blaming god for the stuff thats heppens down here?

I interpreted it more like using the negative things (eg war, children getting cancer) as a disproof of the idea that God is some loving yet damning male figure that makes us suffer to teach us right and wrong, yet loves us and we have to love the one that hurts.. that the sin is all in us and so on...

I think TT said something in his old Forum about that he felt God is nothing like damning and judging, but part of us and the Universe, like BEG said it.

Jens on his website says something like he's agnostic even days and atheist odd days.

Lucid Faia · Post by **Lucid Faia** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:24 pm

It depends on what your beliefs are. See, the Christian belief is that God gave us the freedom to make choices for ourselves. It goes back to Adam and Eve, where they were told not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, but they went and did it anyway. That was their freedom. The consequence was banishment from the Garden Of Eden.

Imagine that you have a "freedom card." This card has your name on it, and it represents the freedom that God gave to humanity, his favorite creation, when they were created. God could make all of the evil things in the world go away in an instant if he wanted. But it would cost you one thing: your freedom card. God getting involved to handle problems that we created would be a breach of our natural right to make choices and decisions for ourselves. It is written in the Bible that God is a loving, but holy God, however, "Man must learn to help himself."

Lucid Faia · Post by **Lucid Faia** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:26 pm

Fireblade wrote:Jens on his website says something like he's agnostic even days and atheist odd days.

Heh. What Jens means is that he doesn't give a shit. "What will be, will be."

Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:25 am

I just think of them as "true neutral"...

StratoRico · Post by **StratoRico** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:59 am

what i am quite sure is that tolkki definately doesn't believe in god.

You can notice it on his second solo album,and in elements part2,on the song ALPHA & OMEGA,which is a sort of joke about GOD.

i also read on his homepage that he doesn't believe on catholic principles,so maybe he's of another religion

but i think that he's atheic

browneyedgirl · Post by **browneyedgirl** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:55 pm

Do you REALLY think TT meant ALPHA&OMEGA as a joke--that he was actually making fun of God&His power?

I have to think on that---that is very heavy&serious thought.

I will read the lyrics to see if it is a song from respect, or ridicule.

Maybe its just what a person makes of it-Dunno. *shrugs*

StratoRico · Post by **StratoRico** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:51 pm

browneyedgirl wrote:Do you REALLY think TT meant ALPHA&OMEGA as a joke--that he was actually making fun of God&His power?
I have to think on that---that is very heavy&serious thought.
I will read the lyrics to see if it is a song from respect, or ridicule.
Maybe its just what a person makes of it-Dunno. *shrugs*

We can analyze the lyrics here

I am the earth and sky
I am the low and high
I am the snowflake in the winter evening
I am the birth and death
I am your final breath
I am the one that gave you life and freedom
Choosing your own way

The phrase that i've underlined it's a joke,in fact,think about what says in every song Tolkki...

You make your own way,you make your destiny,no one can tell you what to do,we have to play this game by ourselves...

So you see that this phrase is in contrast with his opinion,and that's why he principally don't believe in god.
Because for the religion god has write on his book

our lives and our destiny,so we cannot choose by oursevles,and this is what tolkki hate

Everything you've ever known
Every seed that you have sown
Came from me i made you
My creation is supreme
This is all me perfect dream
No mistakes in God's great perfect cosmic play

also this phrase i think it's a joke...
it seems that god is full of himself...
he appear like a bully...
and if you see the lyrics on the EP2 booklet you'll see that there is a " " between PERFECT...

it runs like...

NO MISTAKES IN GOD'S GREAT "PERFECT" UNIVERSE

And so on...

i had this opinion on this lyrics...

Twilightsymphony · Post by **Twilightsymphony** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:59 pm

Well, i had the feeling, at least with part 1 (i was to bored to read the lyrics of Elements 2

) that its not really about god in a direct way. When i heard the lyrics, it pretty much matched my feelings towards this issue. God is so often used as an excuse for our own cruelty, and, apart from the question if there is a god, this is plain wrong.

Like the lyrics for Elements:

"Eye for an eye and the whole world will be blind
Oceans of madness drowning the hope of mankind
What kind of man kills because of ideology?
What kind of god justifies violence?"

Its not about god, its about our excuses for killing each other. Its not important what you believe, as long as you can find an own way to live in peace with mankind/nature. And we lost this way long time ago.
I interpreted the lyrics as some kind of general disappointment in humanity. But perhaps just because i felt this disappointment myself when dealing with the lyrics, i dont know...

I dont believe in any kind of god though, perhaps my view on the lyrics is influenced by this aspect.

browneyedgirl · Post by **browneyedgirl** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:53 pm

But, "God" DOES allow us to choose our own way! He does not force us to Follow him! Everyone is free to choose whether to be a christian, non-Christian. atheist, Pagan, Buddhist, Davidian,Spiritualist, etc. I think you know what i mean....

Lucid is right in so many ways. God could force us to walk the straight&narrow but, He allows us to live what lifestyle we choose.But, freedom has responsibility&its consequences! That holds true no matter if you believe in God or not.

And Gods Universe is NOT perfect-it wasn't meant to be&none of us were promised a perfect life, either. You have to take the thorns along with the roses. No matter how good&sinless a person lives--no matter how he/she thinks they got it all figured out, things happen to us beyond our control. Because thats jst how life is.
And that saying,"life is what you make it" is only half true--that goes back to what I previously stated--other people&things&events happen to us that can shape our Destiny!

No person is an island unto him/herself.

What does THAT have to do with God?He gave us freedom of choice as a gift because he cares---He could have forced us to follow him, but he has not---I am allowed to do al my self-indulgent sins, people are allowed to be atheists, persons can follow a doomsday cult if they desire--or join a hippie nudist colony!:D The choice is ours--that choice is God's plan for us--what we choose is our Destiny!

Fireblade · Post by **Fireblade** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:45 pm

I interpreted A and O as more like "God is in all of us"... that we have far more power than we ever realise.

TT thinks individuals that have realised and tried to teach this, such as Jesus and Wilhelm Reich, end up crushed by the system as the majority can't cope with their message. I'm paraphrasing that, but he said something like that in the HtL forum ages ago.

Equinox · Post by **Equinox** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:31 pm

Well, i agree with Lucid and BEG, God give us freedom, we choose whatever we want to be/act, but i dont really think that what we choose to do is called destiny....and 'bout TT i would like him to be more....more easy on god, if theres gonna be another cd (hope So). no everydoby think like him, And He have to 'cuz show some respect, or at least that is what i think.

TNX u all for ur support on my topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ElDiablo · Post by **ElDiablo** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:40 pm

There is no god.

And it's really funny that when someone believes in god that person gets angry or something if someone says a bad word about their god. Doesn't that make your "lord" look quite weak when you must defend it so eagerly?

Hail Satan. \o

browneyedgirl · Post by **browneyedgirl** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:25 am

In the EPISODE booklet, in the Thanks list, Tolkki says tribute to a lady who died&he says,"See you on the Other Side." Read it Yourself if you think I am lying!
So, apparently, then, TT believed in afterlife, or at least a metaphysical occurance in death where the soul goes to another plane.
But, that was almost 10 years ago&anyone can change their views/opinion/philosophy about such things in that amount of time.
I know I have.

Lucid Faia · Post by **Lucid Faia** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:12 am

ElDiablo wrote:There is no god.

And it's really funny that when someone believes in god that person gets angry or something if someone says a bad word about their god. Doesn't that make your "lord" look quite weak when you must defend it so eagerly?

Hail Satan. \o

ANGST

Stratovarius Community

.....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????

Re: .....im confuse 'bout strato....are they religious??????