Helloween Guitarrists

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Who's the best Helloween Guitarrist of all times

Kai Hansen
33
53%
Michael Weikath
11
18%
Roland Grapow
8
13%
Sascha Gerstner
10
16%
 
Total votes: 62

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:40 am

But how can you say that the siniging is good? I don't get that! Kai sings just horrible! The song itself is good but Kai's voice...bah! I just can't understand how anybody can say he was good on the Halloween EP and on Walls of Jericho.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:06 am

Ragehead:it's cool and I respect your opinion man, however I love the song and I have no problem with the singing, yes it's not Bruce dickinson quality singing but I find nothing wrong with it.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:58 am

I don't know, I don't really need singing to be perfect to like it. I like some rather quirky and rough around the edges singing. Its metal, I don't think it's supposed to be about sounding perfect or pretty. I mean guys like udo have less of a range and are rougher with more damaged vocal chords

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:11 am

icecab21 wrote:I don't know, I don't really need singing to be perfect to like it. I like some rather quirky and rough around the edges singing. Its metal, I don't think it's supposed to be about sounding perfect or pretty. I mean guys like udo have less of a range and are rougher with more damaged vocal chords
I love Udo, Chris Boltendahl, Ralf Scheepers, Mat Sinner, Peavy Wagner, Rock'n'Rolf, Dave Mustaine and all of those singer but I never really could acquire a taste for Kai's voice. I hated it from the first time on I heard it. His voice just really annoys me and makes it impossible for me to listen to Gamma Ray or early Helloween (1985-1986) without turning the music of after a few songs. I can't really say what it is that annoys me so much about it. I just don't like it. And this is why I am so pissed of that he he decided to sing again after Ralf left. The music of Gamma Ray is great. Beyond the Black Hole, Send me a Sign, Men on a Mission, Land of the Free, Into the Storm...All great songs...But Kai's voice really ruins it for me. I remember watching some bootleg vids on youtube of shows when Kai was sick and Metalium's Hennig Basse took over vocal dutys for a few nights. That was just godlike!

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:56 pm

Ragehead:I will agree with you on the point that Kai's voice is an aquired taste.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:39 am

Any voice is a aquired taste. There is not universial sound automaticly loved by all.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:10 pm

It seems that everyone I know loves Kiskes voice.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:26 pm

Ragehead:you've just met someone who is not in love with kiske's voice, don't get me wrong I don't hate it however I don't think his voice is original and he tries to sound too much like Geoff tate.

Just my opinion however
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:36 pm

hiro23 wrote:Ragehead:you've just met someone who is not in love with kiske's voice, don't get me wrong I don't hate it however I don't think his voice is original and he tries to sound too much like Geoff tate.

Just my opinion however
I actually agree. I think he is extremly overrated. He is not by any means a bad singer! He is good, but not as good as anybody says he is. Plus I have a problem with the guy's attitude. I dunno how you feel it, but no matter what he says or writes, all I see in him is a bitter, old guy who is still mad because his old band kicked him over 15 years ago and hates the entire metal scene because of that. And don't tell me that "he only hates Death and Black Metal" bullshit. In one of his recent interviews he said that the entire european metal scene is dead.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:02 pm

Ragehead91 wrote:
hiro23 wrote:Ragehead:you've just met someone who is not in love with kiske's voice, don't get me wrong I don't hate it however I don't think his voice is original and he tries to sound too much like Geoff tate.

Just my opinion however
I actually agree. I think he is extremly overrated. He is not by any means a bad singer! He is good, but not as good as anybody says he is. Plus I have a problem with the guy's attitude. I dunno how you feel it, but no matter what he says or writes, all I see in him is a bitter, old guy who is still mad because his old band kicked him over 15 years ago and hates the entire metal scene because of that. And don't tell me that "he only hates Death and Black Metal" bullshit. In one of his recent interviews he said that the entire european metal scene is dead.
You just stated the opinion I have as well, I think Kiske is very arrogant and decided to hate metal simply because Weikath kicked him out of the band, in my opinion Deris saved Helloween
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:38 pm

hiro23 wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:
hiro23 wrote:Ragehead:you've just met someone who is not in love with kiske's voice, don't get me wrong I don't hate it however I don't think his voice is original and he tries to sound too much like Geoff tate.

Just my opinion however
I actually agree. I think he is extremly overrated. He is not by any means a bad singer! He is good, but not as good as anybody says he is. Plus I have a problem with the guy's attitude. I dunno how you feel it, but no matter what he says or writes, all I see in him is a bitter, old guy who is still mad because his old band kicked him over 15 years ago and hates the entire metal scene because of that. And don't tell me that "he only hates Death and Black Metal" bullshit. In one of his recent interviews he said that the entire european metal scene is dead.
You just stated the opinion I have as well, I think Kiske is very arrogant and decided to hate metal simply because Weikath kicked him out of the band, in my opinion Deris saved Helloween
Indeed. I don't blame only Kiske for what happened with Helloween from 1991 to 1993. I know it is the fault of the whole band. I remember reading that Weikath at first was very exited about the whole direction change for examole. But I think Kiske had big influences on the entire direction change the band underwent. And I also think it is very arrogant that he thinks that his way of doing music is the only real way of doing it. He also is a big hypocrite. If metal really is that bad, why does he sing in Avantasia? Why did he sing in Masterplan, Gamma Ray, Trick or Tread and Gamma Ray? If you say that you hate metal and that you'll never do it again at least stay true to your words!

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Fuuso » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:34 am

Kai, no contest

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:36 am

I don't think kiske tries to be Tate and I can easily recognize each of them. They are both using techniques developed long ago and some voices will naturally be more similar than other voices when two people sing the same way.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:42 am

Why was I so sure that you would post something like that? :roll:

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:30 am

Icecab:it's just my opinion man, I'm not saying Kiske has a bad voice I'm merely saying that I personally find it to not be that original, I do realize that everyone is a little different in their own way, but in this case I can't hear too much originality, remember it's just my opinion.

Ragehead:I read that stuff about Weikath, however he did say that even though he was willing to try something new he did not want to abandon playing metal as that's the music he loves, in fact he actually had asked Deris to join them right after pink bubbles but Deris refused the offer at the time. Weikath then said when they were done with the Chameleon tour however he knew that the band really needed a change.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:19 am

Those guys have extremely developed technique and have trained their bodies very well to be singers. Just stating my opinion too :). We can always just call kiske Tate since they both are some of the most developed singers out there.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:13 pm

hiro23 wrote: Ragehead:I read that stuff about Weikath, however he did say that even though he was willing to try something new he did not want to abandon playing metal as that's the music he loves, in fact he actually had asked Deris to join them right after pink bubbles but Deris refused the offer at the time. Weikath then said when they were done with the Chameleon tour however he knew that the band really needed a change.
IIRC Weikath asked Andi Deris even before Pink BUbbles was made in 1989 or 1990. But Andi refused because IIRC Pink Cream 69 was really going really well at the time.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:09 am

Ragehead:plus Deris had said that because he had started Pink cream 69 with his friends he just didn't feel right at the time leaving them behind, but then if I remember right near the end of 93 Weikath had sent Deris some demo's he wanted him to hear and that's when Deris decided it was the right time to come to Helloween.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:12 am

And they have been smashing pumpkins ever since

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by mayhem-for-all » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:13 pm

hiro23 wrote:Helloween like many other bands I love I tend to think of in era's, each one being very good in a different way, there's the Kai hansen era 1985-1989,The commercial era 1989-1994,The Roland Grapow and Uli Kusch era(I know Roland came in before this however I believe this is the era he really showed us what he was made of)1994-2001, and finally the current era 2003-????
I'm not into Helloween but I do agree that all bands have eras.
Stratovarius had Tolkki era (Fright Night-Dreamspace) Visions Years era (Fourth Dimension - Infinte) Different approach era (Elements pt.1 - Stratovarius) And Polaris era (Polaris - ???)

Sonata Arctica has eras too but as it is a much younger band there are just two eras.
Early Basic PM era (Ecliptica - Reckoning Night) Proggy Pm era (Unia - ...)

Hammerfall has eras too.
Early fast/simple era (Glory to the Brave - Renegade)
Heavier era (Crimson Thunder - Chapter V)
Teriible era (Threshold)
Heavier Era II (No Sarifice, No Victory - ...???)

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:50 pm

hiro23 wrote:Ragehead:plus Deris had said that because he had started Pink cream 69 with his friends he just didn't feel right at the time leaving them behind, but then if I remember right near the end of 93 Weikath had sent Deris some demo's he wanted him to hear and that's when Deris decided it was the right time to come to Helloween.
Indeed. In 93 there were also problems in Pink Cream 69. AFAIK Andi Deris was unhappy with his position in the band and he wanted to contribute more to the music.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:48 pm

Mayhem:I agree there are era's in pretty much every band.

Ragehead:I also heard that as well, I hear that the band wanted to go in a more alternative direction(which they ultimatly did with the change album)and Deris was against it, so because he liked what he was hearing out of the Helloween camp that's when he decided he should join up with them. I'm glad he did because I really think that he put Helloween back on the right direction.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:29 pm

Indeed. Helloween and Deris definitly did the right move with Deris leaving PC69 and joining Helloween and Weikath with kicking out Kiske and Ingo. As much as I like Ingo, there was no way continuing the band with him at that time (Ingo being drug addicted, having strong schizophrenia and not going to the hospital because he didn't trust the docs).

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Babylon » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:20 am

Ragehead91 wrote:But I think Kiske had big influences on the entire direction change the band underwent. And I also think it is very arrogant that he thinks that his way of doing music is the only real way of doing it. He also is a big hypocrite. If metal really is that bad, why does he sing in Avantasia? Why did he sing in Masterplan, Gamma Ray, Trick or Tread and Gamma Ray? If you say that you hate metal and that you'll never do it again at least stay true to your words!
He obviously does it for the cash, which is perfectly fine - you're a singer, it's your job, you sing - you get paid. But yea then saying how metal is so horrible and whatnot.. makes no sense. I do like his voice a lot tho, can't deny he's a very talented singer. But I don't think he is "the voice" as some people call him, much less "the only voice of Helloween".

To me, Andi is and always will be the voice of Helloween. 7 awesome studio albums, 2 great live albums. And hopefully many more to come :D

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:32 am

Babylon wrote:
Ragehead91 wrote:But I think Kiske had big influences on the entire direction change the band underwent. And I also think it is very arrogant that he thinks that his way of doing music is the only real way of doing it. He also is a big hypocrite. If metal really is that bad, why does he sing in Avantasia? Why did he sing in Masterplan, Gamma Ray, Trick or Tread and Gamma Ray? If you say that you hate metal and that you'll never do it again at least stay true to your words!
He obviously does it for the cash, which is perfectly fine - you're a singer, it's your job, you sing - you get paid. But yea then saying how metal is so horrible and whatnot.. makes no sense. I do like his voice a lot tho, can't deny he's a very talented singer. But I don't think he is "the voice" as some people call him, much less "the only voice of Helloween".

To me, Andi is and always will be the voice of Helloween. 7 awesome studio albums, 2 great live albums. And hopefully many more to come :D
I know he does it for the money. And I have no problem with that. I mean, after all he makes his living that way and everyone in this buisness who says that he isn't in it for the money is a lair anyway. But still, I would've less problems if the guy would actually stay true to his own words. If you say you won't do metal again, don't do metal. If you say you won't sing a Helloween song agai, don't sing a helloween song again (even if they're your own songs!)! If he really wanted to get away from Metal that badly he would've a great carrere as solo artist now and he could propably be a big name in the AOR or melodic rock scene! I mean, could you imagine if he would've actually founded Place Vendome right after he was kicked out of Helloween, if he released albums regularly and if he kept touring? I'm pretty sure he could've been very successful.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:38 am

kiske is saying he is only doing projects that he personally connects with. Kiske is definitely in more demand than the amount of projects he does. If he really has a problem with the songs like future world that would seem so weird to me since I see that as a happier song than heroes and last night on earth and the like, but I think all those songs show the more positive side of metal. I do think this kind of stuff is a bridge between rock and metal, its definitely not aggressive or destructive like not doom, death, thrash, or black or the traditional metal drugs and sex kind.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by hiro23 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:21 am

Kiske unfortunately lives is kiske land which for some strange reason means that when others do metal it's awful but when he does it it's not metal. Oh well, Deris saved Helloween and we have many great albums because of that(I don't care what the detractors say).

Pink cream 69 cleaned up their act and realized they were doing better when they did traditional metal as opposed to alternative metal, Kai did great and is still doing great with Gamma ray(yes I know you don't like Kai's voice Ragehead, however many others do)and Kiske despite his arrogant attitude is also doing well with his solo career and side projects.

Unfortunately for all of us Ingo Died in 95 due to a suicide attempt brought on by severe depression problems, he will be eternally missed in the metal world.

However his successors have done very well, I think Uli Kusch and Dani Loble are excellent drummers.
Roland and Uli went on to form Masterplan(with Uli quitting a few years later to pursue other projects)and I think they also have done very well.

However I will agree with you on the point that Kiske's career has been nothing compared to all the other members and ex-members of Helloween.
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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:03 am

I think kiske point gets proven by how many metal people trash stuff like solo albums, blackmores' night ,and tolkkis solo albums. I mean these albums are really enjoyed by many but in the metal community we have people trashing the hell out the stuff.

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by Ragehead91 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:15 pm

Because those fans don't like them? Because in their opinion those albums are horrible?

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Re: Helloween Guitarrists

Post by icecab21 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:20 pm

Because of how aggressive they are about it. Fans of other genres are not as aggressive and dramatic about music that they don't connect with. I have seen elitism in other genres but I have not seen the personal attacks on the musicians like I see by metal heads.

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